NCL pricing policy change

[tiyana4]

Well this absolutely stinks!

 

I don't think getting a $75 trip insurance voucher free is any savings, I got my balcony from a discounter for about 1/3 of what NCL was offering which is way more than the price of the 'free' insurance. :rolleyes:

 

I agree....particularly when our TA gives us free insurance anyway.

[ocdb8r]

Ditto to that' date=' we use them too and got the same email. I don't really understand it. They buy blocks of cabins and pass on the savings to us. Everyone wins. Except NCL? I don't know...I am wondering what other changes we might see in pricing structure.

 

Well heck.[/quote']

 

This is actually not changed by the policy:

 

Q. If an agency has a group with amenity points, can the rates along with the value

add be advertised?

A. Yes and we highly recommend that amenity points be assigned at time group is

blocked to take full advantage of the value-add.

 

What the policy changes is the widespread practice of discounting cruises by essentially cutting commission. Many don't know that large volume agencies receive 15-20% commission on their cruise sales. The largest have competed by essentially rebating a large portion of that commission. NCL is attempting to put a stop to the cannibalization of fares. However, I agree that this is a very fine line. Given it's now become essentially an industry wide practice (with the three biggest lines), I doubt there is room for too much agency backlash.

 

It may work for NCL in the end as it will force agencies to compete on marketing and by booking group space and then filling it. NCL and Carnival (like RCCL before them) are tired of "order takers" skimming clients with nothing more than some flashy banner ads and deep discounts. They want to cultivate agents and agencies that DRIVE business, not just take orders. That, I totally understand.

 

However, there is a flip side to this. To the market that depended on those discount bookers for their cruises, this is de facto a price increase. At a time when the economy is just starting to recover, new mega ships abound, and capacity keeps going up and up, I am not sure there won't be some repercussions for the cruise lines.

 

To me it seems they are trying to stage a industry wide price bump much like the airlines have, however they fail to realize that unlike the airlines whose biggest costs are actually in labor, the cruiselines are costs are more largely tied to their hard assets (ships). While the airlines suffer asset costs when parking a plane in the desert, the savings from labor more than offsets those costs when a route is not performing (filling to capacity). The same cannot be said for cruiselines and as a result they do not have the same ability to back up their price increases with a capacity squeeze like the airlines have. As a result, someone, somewhere is going to break to get their ships filled and prices will eventually give way to market forces.

[Planer's Edge]

TA still have access to group rates and other rates that may not be on the website. It does take an educated consumer to find these. Pricing maybe up but discounts abound.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. Give that man a cigar.;)

 

PE

[big green]

Ding' date=' ding, ding, ding. Give that man a cigar.;)

 

PE

[/color']

 

IMOP if you use Carnival as an example the group discount prices that have been available come no way near the discounting available in the past from a private TA discounting their commission.

 

Anyway time will tell--to me this is totally against a free market economy preventing the middle man from being able to determine their markup to any one customer==if NCL has a bottom dollar for their cruise that they charge then anything over that should be negotiable---all they are doing is joining RCL and Carnival in price fixing--the airlines have tried this with little success which has resulted in all the extra fees and charges==soon the feds will have them really breaking this down for the consumer--maybe the cruise lines need to be more specific in their taxes and fees which are at best almost not understandable on a broad spectrum.

 

 

BG

[Planer's Edge]

IMOP if you use Carnival as an example the group discount prices that have been available come no way near the discounting available in the past from a private TA discounting their commission.

 

Anyway time will tell--to me this is totally against a free market economy preventing the middle man from being able to determine their markup to any one customer==if NCL has a bottom dollar for their cruise that they charge then anything over that should be negotiable---all they are doing is joining RCL and Carnival in price fixing--the airlines have tried this with little success which has resulted in all the extra fees and charges==soon the feds will have them really breaking this down for the consumer--maybe the cruise lines need to be more specific in their taxes and fees which are at best almost not understandable on a broad spectrum.

 

 

BG

 

You just don't get it do you. NCL offers a service/product. They allow the "middle man" to sell their product. Since they ultimately have to provide the service to the customer, not the "middle man", they should be able to determine how their services are marketed/priced. And all we need is more government involvement, God forbid.

 

PE

[big green]

You just don't get it do you. NCL offers a service/product. They allow the "middle man" to sell their product. Since they ultimately have to provide the service to the customer' date=' not the "middle man", they should be able to determine how their services are marketed/priced. And all we need is more government involvement, God forbid.

 

PE[/color']

 

I get it--we just have very different opinions which we are both entitled.

 

They real measure will not be you or I--it will be the bookings that result after this change, resulting price increases and how many TAs can not make a living because of the change. I believe NCL will suffer from this policy change--I hope I am wrong--but I do know this my TA has always been able to beat any group price offered due to her discounting her commission--so

if you want to pay more that is your right-then i believe you do not get it.

 

BG

[tmilak]

This really is substantial and may force me to look into land based vacations instead. For example by booking my suite through my TA my price was m$1400.00 les than if i booked directly through NCL. If I had to pay the extra $1400 I probably would not have chosen the new EPIC.

[*Luv2Cruz*]

TA still have access to group rates and other rates that may not be on the website. It does take an educated consumer to find these. Pricing maybe up but discounts abound.

Definately like the group rates and got a good discount, an OBC, and more... with my CC group and also got an additional price drop this week!;):cool:

[big green]

Definately like the group rates and got a good discount, an OBC, and more... with my CC group and also got an additional price drop this week!;):cool:

 

You had better call again --I just checked some internet travel companies and these prices were beat badly--and still had OBC< and other things like free bottles of wine--etc.

 

BG

[OrangeAndBlue]

They real measure will not be you or I--it will be the bookings that result after this change, resulting price increases and how many TAs can not make a living because of the change.

 

Actually, I personally will be able to make a MUCH better living as a TA because of this change. I don't think the NCL policy goes far enough. I wish they would have adopted the more stringent Carnival policy.

 

I realize people like getting discounts but at the same time, some of these online discounters leave a margin of $10 - $20 on a cruise and that is just not enough to make a living. Not many people I know would take a 90% cut in pay but at the same time ask TAs to do it. I liken it to people wanting to shop cheaply as Walmart but then complaining because all of our jobs going overseas.

 

Now I will be able to compete solely based on customer service and not on price. I will be able to sell the fact I can be reached 24/7 and don't need to ask for a reservation number. My customer's numbers are programmed in my cell and I know who's calling and what they have booked. I can't blame the people who I've lost because of price but now I know that I will be able to retain them in the future!

[big green]

Actually, I personally will be able to make a MUCH better living as a TA because of this change. I don't think the NCL policy goes far enough. I wish they would have adopted the more stringent Carnival policy.

 

I realize people like getting discounts but at the same time, some of these online discounters leave a margin of $10 - $20 on a cruise and that is just not enough to make a living. Not many people I know would take a 90% cut in pay but at the same time ask TAs to do it. I liken it to people wanting to shop cheaply as Walmart but then complaining because all of our jobs going overseas.

 

Now I will be able to compete solely based on customer service and not on price. I will be able to sell the fact I can be reached 24/7 and don't need to ask for a reservation number. My customer's numbers are programmed in my cell and I know who's calling and what they have booked. I can't blame the people who I've lost because of price but now I know that I will be able to retain them in the future!

 

I am happy for you-- I hope your customers will be happy with the coming increases --You sound like my TA with your service--with the difference being she provides the discounted prices and service to many clients.

 

BG

[tiyana4]

Actually, I personally will be able to make a MUCH better living as a TA because of this change. I don't think the NCL policy goes far enough. I wish they would have adopted the more stringent Carnival policy.

 

I realize people like getting discounts but at the same time, some of these online discounters leave a margin of $10 - $20 on a cruise and that is just not enough to make a living. Not many people I know would take a 90% cut in pay but at the same time ask TAs to do it. I liken it to people wanting to shop cheaply as Walmart but then complaining because all of our jobs going overseas.

 

Now I will be able to compete solely based on customer service and not on price. I will be able to sell the fact I can be reached 24/7 and don't need to ask for a reservation number. My customer's numbers are programmed in my cell and I know who's calling and what they have booked. I can't blame the people who I've lost because of price but now I know that I will be able to retain them in the future!

 

There are many, many people who refused to work with a TA before the new policy. Imagine how many more will jump ship and book direct once this new policy is implemented. I hope for your sake your clients are as loyal as you think.

[2Cruise4Ever]

This really is substantial and may force me to look into land based vacations instead. For example by booking my suite through my TA my price was m$1400.00 les than if i booked directly through NCL. If I had to pay the extra $1400 I probably would not have chosen the new EPIC.

 

That's been our experience as well. I doubt our TA will be able to provide an OBC equal to the savings we have enjoyed over the years. Looks like land-based vacations for us, too. There's no way we can afford to cruise every year anymore.

[Clay Clayton]

I too got the email from the online TA who always seemed to offer the Best Prices:rolleyes: and am concerned that this will be the end of some really good deals...but (always trying to look at the glass as half full) maybe this means that the TAs will be better able/willing? to offer a discount or OBC after final payment and NCL offers discounts. My previous experience is that the discount online agencies said there was nothing they could do whereas those who had booked through a bricks and mortar or with NCL directly could usually get an upgrade or an OBC. If the discount TAs keep their previous policy and can't offer much except some "free" travel insurance then I will be finding an NCL PCC!

[sjbdtz]

Sheehan was quoted as saying this on July 6--then on july 17 he screws most of the companies and TA that sell the NCL product, another great move by NCL:

 

"NCL is recommitting itself to the travel agent community. Before, Sheehan admitted, NCL was a bit difficult to work with. Now, "we are looking to enhance our travel agent business," he said, adding that NCL's pricing is up and all ships are booking well. "Agents are the ones who make the business work.""

 

 

 

BG

 

and what he's saying now, is 'stop selling our product based on price'. It's a good enough product that it can be sold on value.

 

The higher the price, the more commission the agents make.

[sjbdtz]

Maybe the whole point is that there's a correlation between those who can barely afford to cruise, and those who remove DSC? Perhaps those people have unprofitable onboard spend. Perhaps the goal is to capacity-control the ship using variable pricing which is controlled by NCL. If discounters are chopping $X from the price and leaving it stable, then the capacity control is hampered.

What will be interesting to see is whether this spurs more group-space purchases, and what happens with agencies who buy more group-space than they can sell... will they then have to give it away?



[quote name='big green']it will be hard in my opinion for NCL to compete with other lines just on brand with out price reductions allowed by TAs. BG[/quote]

I disagree. The ships are nicer than Princess, and the service is significantly better. NCL's brand is worth more than you (surprise, surprise) give it credit for.

[quote name='big green']IMOP if you use Carnival as an example the group discount prices that have been available come no way near the discounting available in the past from a private TA discounting their commission.

Anyway time will tell--to me this is totally against a free market economy preventing the middle man from being able to determine their markup to any one customer [COLOR=red]NCL is under no obligation to use a TA channel. If TAs want to earn commission from the 14,000 people who sail on NCL every week then they'll just adhere to the new policy.[/COLOR][/quote]

[quote name='big green']They real measure will not be you or I--it will be the bookings that result after this change, resulting price increases and how many TAs can not make a living because of the change. [COLOR=red]Most people's experience with this change will be that they find an itinerary they like, but can't find a discounted version of it. That's it, that's all. I think they'll just book the best combination of price/extras, rather than price alone.[/COLOR][/quote]


Maybe NCL is upping the ante (pun intended) with Casinos At Sea, and wants to be sure that it is offering the best-available pricing to its high-profile guests?

We don't know their motivation, so second-guessing it is pointless.

[big green]

[quote name='sjbdtz']Maybe the whole point is that there's a correlation between those who can barely afford to cruise, and those who remove DSC? Perhaps those people have unprofitable onboard spend. Perhaps the goal is to capacity-control the ship using variable pricing which is controlled by NCL. If discounters are chopping $X from the price and leaving it stable, then the capacity control is hampered.

What will be interesting to see is whether this spurs more group-space purchases, and what happens with agencies who buy more group-space than they can sell... will they then have to give it away?





I disagree. The ships are nicer than Princess, and the service is significantly better. NCL's brand is worth more than you (surprise, surprise) give it credit for.






Maybe NCL is upping the ante (pun intended) with Casinos At Sea, and wants to be sure that it is offering the best-available pricing to its high-profile guests?

We don't know their motivation, so second-guessing it is pointless.[/QUOTE]


No you can not second guess NCL nor can you second guess consumer motivations like you have tried on your response.

The service I experienced on Carnival was as good or better than NCL--IMOP the food was a lot better. Carnival ships in some respects are nicer with larger pool areas and bigger casinos in most compared to the overall NCL fleet..

BG

[ugen512]

[quote=can'twaittogoagain;25223826]Ditto to that, we use them too and got the same email. I don't really understand it. They buy blocks of cabins and pass on the savings to us. Everyone wins. Except NCL? I don't know...I am wondering what other changes we might see in pricing structure.

Well heck.[/quote]


That is not correct, no one buys blocks of cabins. They can hold them as a group and offer any standard group discounts/perks. This has always been the policy that t/a's are not supposed to offer discounts BUT the cruise line's never enforced it. HAL and PCL still do not enforce it. RCCL cracked down a few years ago. The cruise line makes the same amount no matter what the t/a charges.

This is the way it should be, not cheapen the cruise but offer great service to keep your customers coming back.

[Lake Cheddar]

Despite what I received from my TA, this is the most important part of NCL's release.

[COLOR=red]Q. Will Norwegian Cruise Line accept less than the Gross Due when making final payment on a group?
A. Our policy on this has not changed for group bookings due to the TC's and amenities that are associated with groups.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]For the vast majority of On-Line TA's, they will still be able to make final payment at less then Gross Due. [/COLOR]


[/COLOR]

[newmexicoNita]

[quote name='alwalaska']Any details?[/QUOTE]

I am surprised it has taken this long. RCI started the policy about 4 years ago.

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

[quote name='mommyto2girls']HERE IS WHAT I GOT FROM A LARGE ONLINE AGENCY:

"Carnival and NCL will prohibit travel agencies from offering discounted cruise prices as of August 1st, 2010.
In lieu of discounted pricing we will offer you the choice of FREE insurance

Onboard credits, Insurance, Wine, Gifts & more.
You can also choose to receive free travel insurance protection for your cruise. We currently offers the Picture Perfect policy from iTravelInsured. This policy includes trip cancellation, trip interruption, trip delay, emergency medical and dental while traveling, emergency medical evacuation, baggage, and more! "[/QUOTE]

Tech they are not supposed to even say that publically. My understanding is all the agency can even publically refer to might be something worded like this "for every cruise you book you will recieve a gift worth up to XXX $s) And they can't put that on advertising directly..

Nita

[smeyer418]

[quote name='ugen512']That is not correct, no one buys blocks of cabins. They can hold them as a group and offer any standard group discounts/perks. This has always been the policy that t/a's are not supposed to offer discounts BUT the cruise line's never enforced it. HAL and PCL still do not enforce it. RCCL cracked down a few years ago. The cruise line makes the same amount no matter what the t/a charges.

This is the way it should be, not cheapen the cruise but offer great service to keep your customers coming back.[/quote]


Are you sure? some of the buying groups TA's belong to DO buy blocks of rooms. This is called a NET fare. The TA is then free to charge whatever they want for the room. All they pay to the cruise line is the net fare(which includes all taxes and port charges). The risk of loss/gain has passed to the buying group. They can charge more than they paid sometimes to avoid having to take a loss on an empty room they will discount the price heavily. Its not allowed by all cruise lines. Also not all TA's have access to these rates. In addition many/some TA's have access to prenegotiated cruise group rates where they can people to the group at any time. Its sometimes why you are locked into a fare even though the cruise lines fare has dropped.

There are so many fares on any cruise that it takes a department full time to keep up with them all.... No individual TA will have access to all the fares. That is why shopping around is imperative.....

[sunshine 229]

Well, one thing for sure, it will be interesting to watch the fall out from this. Will it be a big wave or merely a little ripple?
As for me, I'll continue to do what I've done up till now...look at a cruise vacation as one of many possible ways to spend my money. In the past several years, cruising has often won out as a good deal compared to other vacation options or other things all together that I could spend my discretionary income on. If this change makes it a less competitive option I'll be cruising less often. Only time will tell if this works out well for NCL and the other cruiselines or not.

[CT Cruiser10]

[quote name='sunshine 229']Well, one thing for sure, it will be interesting to watch the fall out from this. Will it be a big wave or merely a little ripple?
As for me, I'll continue to do what I've done up till now...look at a cruise vacation as one of many possible ways to spend my money. In the past several years, cruising has often won out as a good deal compared to other vacation options or other things all together that I could spend my discretionary income on. If this change makes it a less competitive option I'll be cruising less often. Only time will tell if this works out well for NCL and the other cruiselines or not.[/quote]

RCCL is still in business, so it obviously didn't work out too poorly for them.

[Giorgi-one]

[quote name='Lake Cheddar']Despite what I received from my TA, this is the most important part of NCL's release.

[COLOR=red]Q. Will Norwegian Cruise Line accept less than the Gross Due when making final payment on a group?
A. Our policy on this has not changed for group bookings due to the TC's and amenities that are associated with groups.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]For the vast majority of On-Line TA's, they will still be able to make final payment at less then Gross Due. [/COLOR]


[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

TCs and group amenities are very specific. These are not discounts and are nowhere near the discounts some people have been sayingi they received. The vast majoriity of online TAs will NOT be able to make final payment at less than the Gross Due. For example, on Celebrity or RCL, any OBCs are approved by the Cruise Linie and paid by the TA, not subtracted from the Gross due. I have received the info from NCL and it appears they will be much more restrictive than Celebrity or RCL as far as amenities the TA can offer.