Bumped from Oosterdam 10-29-05 for lesbian cruise--anyone else had this happen?!

[lisabrooke1130]

Hi all!

 

Just found out that the 10-29-05 sailing of the Oosterdam has been chartered by a lesbian travel group http://www.olivia.com and the rest of us who are booked are being bumped.

 

My travel agent says to sit tight and see what they offer us in terms of compensation. She said that they would reimburse for airfare (if we cancelled) or the airfare change fee (should we change to another cruise). We actually are using FF miles, so I have no idea if I can even change or not or get the miles put back into our account. We were sailing on this cruise for our anniversary--we were married on the Oosterdam in 2003, we sailed in 2004 for our first anniversary, and this was to be our second anniversary cruise. So, for sentimental reasons, I don't think we will switch to another cruise. Also, it looks like the 11-05-05 Oosterdam cruise might be chartered by another group, because it along with the 10-29-05 cruise has disappeared from the HAL website.

 

Does anyone have any experience in dealing with this? What might HAL do for us? I wouldn't mind traveling with the lesbians, but the TA said that HAL said that NO MALE PASSENGERS will be allowed on this cruise.

 

Any advice?

Thanks!!

[lawyersinlove]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.

 

Otherwise, I'd demand that HAL make you perfectly whole and buy your air tickets at face value plus costs. Plus a refund of your cruise and immediate placement on a similar cruise ship at their cost at a date convenient to you. When they booked the Olivia charter they knew there were already passengers booked and they deliberately choose to harm you by denying you the benfit of the contract you entered with HAL.

[pollux]

Sue HAL?

In which country?

I think Carnival is the big cahuna.

Hope you have enough money.

Change your dates and take the offer from HAL .

Its only my opinion why ask more trouble then you can handle.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Did you TA just get the call from HAL? I just checked cruise dot com has this cruise available with a lot of cabins for very good prices. I had booked last July for October 8th on the Oosterdam because thier prices were fantastic. This site is usually really up to date. I normally book thru a local TA but she could not come close to the price I paid so I booked on line. I just hope we don't get bumped.

[Globaliser]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.

 

Otherwise, I'd demand that HAL make you perfectly whole and buy your air tickets at face value plus costs. Plus a refund of your cruise and immediate placement on a similar cruise ship at their cost at a date convenient to you. When they booked the Olivia charter they knew there were already passengers booked and they deliberately choose to harm you by denying you the benfit of the contract you entered with HAL.

I believe that the terms of the contract allow the cruise line to bump you off if the ship is going on a full charter - basically, the public cruise is cancelled. (So bang goes any "common carrier" argument at that time.) HAL ought to reimburse you everything, and IIRC most cruise lines go beyond that as a matter of course.

 

Once the ship's been chartered, I suspect that the group that has chartered the cruise won't be under the same restrictions as to who they can sell to and who they can choose not to sell to.

 

For a description of what happened when RCI did this for a similar cruise that's just been and gone, see this thread. (And if you want to see them, here's a thread with photos from that cruise.)

Did you TA just get the call from HAL? I just checked cruise dot com has this cruise available with a lot of cabins for very good prices.

Well, Olivia's now advertising the Oosterdam cruise.

[wander]

First, I understand your disappointment and am sorry for you. I know what it is like to have vacation plans turned up-side down. No fun! It has happened to us several times, only once with HAL, but with some other lines as well.

 

Now in terms of what to do, I would take your TA's excellent advice. Wait and see what HAL offers you.

 

In my experiences with cruise lines, when something changed so drastically, they treated those who were patience very, very well. For those who went into an immediate tizzy, they were not as generous. This was true with our HAL experience (what a deal our TA was able to negotiate!!!!) and even better with another line after 9/11. In the latter case, for a 32 day cruise, those who panicked and made threats, screamed and yelled on these boards, and then cancelled (after full payment, no refund), were foolish. Those of us who waited got an offer that was hard to turn down (14 days added to the cruise which was drastically re-routed, $2000 back pp and all tips paid by the cruise line ) OR we could get our full fare back). Oh, and they also refunded our money for a visa we had to purchase for the original itinerary, and was no longer needed for the revised itinerary.

 

In the interim, keep track of what all it actually costs you (keep receipts) out of pocket because of having to change your travel plans. For example, with our FF miles program, we can re-deposit the miles back into our account, but there was a processing fee. If this happens to you, keep the evidence of the reprocessing fee and proof that you paid it.

 

Once you know what HAL will or will not offer you, try to negotiate if you think it necessary. If you still consider it unfair, then is the time to get upset. Until you know what their offer or options will be, it is waisted energy in my opinion, to get overly upset. But do keep receipts!

[heyabbott]

Sue HAL?

In which country?

I think Carnival is the big cahuna.

Hope you have enough money.

Change your dates and take the offer from HAL .

Its only my opinion why ask more trouble then you can handle.

 

They certainly do business in the US and are headqurtered in Seattle. They are cerainly open to being sued in Federal Court in either Washington, Florida or the state where the plaintiff resides.

[trubey]

I just found the Olivia website listing the following charters (unless I make a typo):

 

[/url]

April 3 Westerdam

May 8 Vendam

Sep 3 Oosterdam

Oct 29 Oosterdam

 

http://gay-travel.edirp.com/index.asp?site=22202&tide=2407366

 

The number of charters seems to be increasing. These were listed on the site as "women only". I totally understand the concept of a woman-only cruise, but I can't justify anyone's reservations and plans needing to be changed because of it.

 

Susan.

[lisabrooke1130]

Ok, I don't think I will be suing anybody--not my style, nor do I feel so violated that I could only get "payback" through the court system. I am disappointed, but not angry.

 

I called Delta (through who we booked using FF miles). It will be $50 per ticket to either redeposit the miles back in the account or change the ticket. Problem is, if I wait too much longer, there may be no FF seats available for when/where I want to go. I actually booked 10 months out because Delta is so bad about filling up their precious few FF seats way ahead of time. I may have to cancel outright.

 

Thank you for your advice everyone, particularly WANDER. We are going to wait it out for a couple of weeks and see what happens. A good offer for another cruise would certainly ease my "pain".

 

LAFFNVEGAS--Someone on my CC roll call provided the information about Olivia.com chartering the Oosterdam. Based on this, I called my TA who called HAL. She had not heard about it until I called. She said that HAL told her that everyone who had previously booked would be bumped, but that HAL had not yet contacted anyone nor had they worked out what they were going to offer people. I bet if you tried to book through a third-party site, once you got down to hooking into HAL's computers to choose a cabin, it would halt the reservation process. The back-end (the actual booking) is probably ahead of the front-end (the on-line advertising). Again, HAL's website doesn't list this cruise anymore. It disappeared!

[cru1s1ng]

That's not very nice of them (HAL or Olivia). I'm very curious about what you recieve in return.

[bepsf]

Lisa--

 

 

I feel so badly for you - I wish that HAL would only allow charters to be booked when their schedules are announced they way they do w/ RSVP so that their other passengers arent' disappointed.

 

I have no doubt that you'd be fine if you were to book on Olivia (you'd probably be hit on more than a few times...) but I have the feeling that your husband might be made to feel very uncomfortable by some of the ladies on board who would feel that he is invading their space - after all, they kinda book Olivia to get away from men...

 

Have you considered Ryndam? Looks like a similar itinerary and you'd get to enjoy the new SOE upgrades - maybe HAL can make it worth your while and get you a nice upgrade?

 

LIL -

I fail to see "deliberate harm" in this case - nobody's life is being endangered and there is clearly no vendetta against this couple either by HAL or Olivia. I also believe the cruise contract allows HAL to cancel passenger reservations for whatever reason they deem fit.

[Iggipolka]

I've been on an Olivia cruise and other travel arranged through them. As an Olivia customer, I have to say that their trips are absolutely fantastic. The cruise I was on was without doubt, the best vacation I have ever had.

 

That being said, I can certainly understand being upset about being bumped off of a cruise due to it being chartered. Heck, if the cruise I have scheduled was suddenly chartered, I'd be pissed off too!

 

I've seen the October 29-Nov5th cruise being advertised on Olivia's website for quite some time. I'm very surprised that HAL has kept the ship open for booking by non-Olivia pax. The cruise should have been removed form HAL's website a long time ago.

 

I won't even address the "discrimination" issue, becuase that's just plain silly. There are plenty of other companies that charter cruises for specific groups of people, so Olivia is far from unique in that respect.

 

The real issue for the OP and other's booked on this cruise and other cruises that have been chartered, is how to work through the anger & dissapointment of having a very much look forward vacation suddenly disappear as well as what kind of compensation HAL can/will offer.

[weluvcruisin']

We had something very similar happen to us. We also had used air miles so could not change them. We received a $200.00 shipboard cruise to use on our next cruise.

 

We booked something else not exactly what we wanted but hey we were cruising, was one of our best cruises and we enjoyed the $200 credit.

[Iggipolka]

I just looked on the HAL website and the October 29th Mexico cruise on the Oosterdam is no longer listed or bookable on their site. There is an October 28th Mexico cruise on the Ryndam that is avaliable.

[torpeedo]

We just got off the Westerdam on 2/20 and the cruise staff told us that this current cruise is a gay charter. Not sure if male or female or both.. So the Westerdam 2/20-2/27 is also a gay charter. Don't know what travel group etc. This sure seems like HAL is chartering more cruises after they opened their bookings ( doesn't matter who they charter to, it's just so disappointing to those who book in advance and make big plans etc)

[bepsf]

We just got off the Westerdam on 2/20 and the cruise staff told us that this current cruise is a gay charter. Not sure if male or female or both.. So the Westerdam 2/20-2/27 is also a gay charter. Don't know what travel group etc. This sure seems like HAL is chartering more cruises after they opened their bookings ( doesn't matter who they charter to, it's just so disappointing to those who book in advance and make big plans etc)

 

Its an RSVP cruise - it was chartered over a year ago before the HAL schedule came out and before anyone booked it directly w/ HAL.

[discjoker]

I won't even address the "discrimination" issue, becuase that's just plain silly. There are plenty of other companies that charter cruises for specific groups of people, so Olivia is far from unique in that respect.

 

Please accept my apologies if this ends up derailing this thread but.....

 

Let me ask you a question, if a group chartered a ship and said that no black people were allowed or no white people allowed would you consider that discrimination? After all, many people believe that you are born with your sexual orientation (in other words you have no choice in the matter). Isn't that the same with your race? And the same with your gender? Just some food for thought, and sorry again if this is way off topic (I don't think it is).

[xpcdoojk]

They certainly do business in the US and are headqurtered in Seattle. They are cerainly open to being sued in Federal Court in either Washington, Florida or the state where the plaintiff resides.

 

Another lawyer?:rolleyes:

 

My company has chartered a cruise with RCI for next year 2006. It is not a complete charter like the Olivia or Atlantis cruises, but it will be over 50% of the capacity of the ship. As a general cruiser, I would not like to be on the same cruise with a special interest group. HAL, in my opinion, is doing you a favor by bumping you off the cruise. Groups tend to get a lot of attention from the cruise staff and may make non group members feel like second class citizens. This is a pretty common complaint I have read in these forums over the last several years. Make sure that they make you whole and start over there are lots of cruises out there to choose from.:)

 

jc

[Iggipolka]

This is off topic from what the OP had asked and probably should be started in another thread. I'm going to start a thread titled "Chartered Cruises" to continue this discussion.

[kryos]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.

What's the point, though? Wouldn't you feel out of place sailing on a cruise where everyone else was lesbian couples? And, that comment has nothing to do with being discriminatory. I know I would feel out of place cruising on a voyage as a single that was strictly for honeymooners. You just wouldn't have anything in common with your fellow cruisers. Would make for a pretty boring week, in my opinion.

 

Half the reason I cruise is to meet so many interesting and diverse people. If everyone onboard was affiliated with one particular lifestyle or interest that I did not share, it would make for a pretty boring cruise for me.

 

I would focus on trying to get the best "settlement" that I could for being bumped and let it go at that. Also, I think the cruiselines have a "clause" in their contract that permits them to pull a voyage if they can charter the whole boat to a special interest group. It's just the way it is. They want to make money on every sailing and a group cruise often involves big bucks for the cruiseline.

 

FWIW, this is exactly the reason I refuse to book 7-day cruises any longer ... even if it is actually two 7-day b2b's. It's those 7-dayers that will get snapped up as charters ... usually the longer sailings don't.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[heyabbott]

What's the point, though? Wouldn't you feel out of place sailing on a cruise where everyone else was lesbian couples? And, that comment has nothing to do with being discriminatory. I know I would feel out of place cruising on a voyage as a single that was strictly for honeymooners. You just wouldn't have anything in common with your fellow cruisers. Would make for a pretty boring week, in my opinion.

 

Half the reason I cruise is to meet so many interesting and diverse people. If everyone onboard was affiliated with one particular lifestyle or interest that I did not share, it would make for a pretty boring cruise for me.

 

I would focus on trying to get the best "settlement" that I could for being bumped and let it go at that. Also, I think the cruiselines have a "clause" in their contract that permits them to pull a voyage if they can charter the whole boat to a special interest group. It's just the way it is. They want to make money on every sailing and a group cruise often involves big bucks for the cruiseline.

 

FWIW, this is exactly the reason I refuse to book 7-day cruises any longer ... even if it is actually two 7-day b2b's. It's those 7-dayers that will get snapped up as charters ... usually the longer sailings don't.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Melissa Ethridge will be playing on the cruise. That beats an Elton John impersonator and a juggler.

[xpcdoojk]

Up to a point I agree, they can and should tell prospective pax, up front, that the ship will be largely a charter group. A charter of lesbians would not be a problem for me or anyone I call a friend.

 

But once they book you, shouldn't they have a responsbility to insure that you are taken care of. So, if they do bump you, they shold already have a plan. Not leave in the lurch and worrying.

 

So they should book you on another cruise without your input? :confused: HAL isn't doing this in a vacuum. They are not the only line that accepts charters. All cruiselines do this. Bookings for charters typically occur after the schedules are published not before. For example our company charter was booked last month, but the schedule had been out for 4 months. I am sure that people had already booked that cruise. We will be just over half of the capacity of the ship. I would not book that cruise if I wasn't part of our group if it was me. Unfortunately, if RCI tells the booked passengers this they will cancel their bookings, and everyone else in the future would not book the cruise if they were smart, therefore instead of sailing at 90% capacity or more next February they would sail at say 75% capacity. That would seem to be a bad financial decision for the cruiseline. Business entities rarely "intentionally" make bad decisions. ;) In other words the world is not exactly fair. In the real world most people will never know they are on a chartered cruise until they show up. Hopefully, it will have zero impact on them, but you never know. I have nothing against alternative lifestyles, but I am pretty sure I would feel a lot more uncomfortable with my DW on a lesbian cruise than one with a shipload of evangelical christians, but I would prefer to be on neither group cruise. ;) I am so glad you cleared up your fear of christians with all of us.:rolleyes:

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

Yeah, if I had a DW I think I'd be more worried that she would convert on the former type of cruise than the latter. :D

 

I don't think DW wants to play on the other team, but she is a very beautiful woman, and I am sure that the other team would hit on her! :D :eek:

 

jc

[ekerr19]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.

 

And people wonder why the courts are clogged with nuisance lawsuits and the cost of legitimate legal representation has skyrocketed... ;)

[1cruiselvr]

My thoughts exactly. I'm surprised this lawyer missed the opportunity to call for a class action lawsuit - that always makes the lawyers fat and the individual left with next to nothing. Too many lawyers in this world with nothing better to do than clog our legal system with frivilous lawsuits. Happy Sailing!