Philly Cruise Ship Terminal Shuttered

[RJG1011]

There has been an ongoing dispute regarding dredging the Delaware and NJ does not want to spend the $$. With two new governors, it is extremely unlikely that the dredging will happen. If it had, even the larger ships would have been able to make it into the port.

 

Philly is so short-sighted - look at the Disney lot on Market Street and the casino disputes. The city has so much to offer cruise tourists so close to the port - numerous museums and historic sites, but they are allowing the DRPA to shoot the city in the proverbial foot.

 

FYI, the DRPA gives money to various causes and still has the audacity close the cruise port to save money. According to an article on phillydotcom from September 5, 2010, they donated $775 million to various charities tied to board members!!! I doubt that keeping the cruise terminal open at least for the duration of the contract would cost close to that amount.

[Dave0311]

There has been an ongoing dispute regarding dredging the Delaware and NJ does not want to spend the $$. With two new governors, it is extremely unlikely that the dredging will happen. If it had, even the larger ships would have been able to make it into the port.

 

Philly is so short-sighted - look at the Disney lot on Market Street and the casino disputes. The city has so much to offer cruise tourists so close to the port - numerous museums and historic sites, but they are allowing the DRPA to shoot the city in the proverbial foot.

 

FYI, the DRPA gives money to various causes and still has the audacity close the cruise port to save money. According to an article on phillydotcom from September 5, 2010, they donated $775 million to various charities tied to board members!!! I doubt that keeping the cruise terminal open at least for the duration of the contract would cost close to that amount.

Exactly. And if marketed correctly to the cruise lines, and if they could get some cruise lines back in Philadelphia, it could actually make money for them. Not to mention help put off any proposed toll increases.

 

From what I've heard though, dredging the river really wouldn't help. Bridge clearance is the bigger problem. But as we've seen with Carnival, half of their fleet could theoretically fit under our bridges. And Baltimore has the same problem in regards to travel time to open waters. So I'm not really sure why Philly could never get the cruise lines the way Baltimore did.

 

When I was in contact with the DRPA in years past, they cited these reasons (bridge clearance, travel time to open waters, etc.) as the reasons the cruise lines didn't want to come to Philadelphia. In my opinion, their view of the cruise industry seems to be skewed and misinformed. (Or even worse, they didn't try to market to the cruise lines, and they found these excuses posted elsewhere online.)

 

There are still smaller ships out there that can make it to our cruise terminal. And these are actually the ships the cruise lines would be more willing to put in a "new" departure port like Philadelphia. Let's face it, even if bridge clearance/river depth weren't a problem, we wouldn't be getting any Oasis or Magic in our port without a proven track record as a viable cruise port. I think these mega-liners are the ships the DRPA tried to get; or perhaps they thought all cruise ships out there today are as big as them.

 

Either way, I just hope that the city or some other party interested in bringing the cruise lines back takes over the cruise terminal. If Urban Outfitters gets the cruise terminal, then all hope will be lost. :( (Unless of course they re-name it as Urban Outfitters Cruise Terminal and gets all the cruise lines. :p)

 

EDIT: I found this quote in a news article. Seems to prove my point that the DRPA doesn't really know much about the cruise industry:

 

"We'll sell the gangplank, tents, an X-ray machine, desks and kitchen parts at auction," said COO Tim Pulte.

I hope they didn't have a gangplank there! :p

[Philly Steve]

yes but it says absolutely nothing.

 

Looks like a form letter response. Let's hope he at least saw the original email.

 

The city has so much to offer cruise tourists so close to the port - numerous museums and historic sites, but they are allowing the DRPA to shoot the city in the proverbial foot.

 

The lack of foresight over the years has truly been frustrating. :mad:

 

I hope they didn't have a gangplank there! :p

 

Maybe they think cruise ship passengers use the ship's catheads instead of bathrooms? :rolleyes:

[smeyer418]

... According to an article on phillydotcom from September 5, 2010, they donated $775 million to various charities tied to board members!!! I doubt that keeping the cruise terminal open at least for the duration of the contract would cost close to that amount.

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20100905_DRPA_donated__775_000_to_groups.html

 

1. its 775,000 not million.

2. its over 5-6 years.

3. most interstate agencies like this have to have their minutes approved by the governors of the states they cover.

4. The article explains what the donations are and frankly some are ridiculous but the agency also has a 300 million per year budget so the amounts are relatively small.

these off the state agencies books tend to do this and frankly I think they should be prohibited. NY has the waterfalls exhibit and the mayor liked to say that no government money was used but the Downtown NY Alliance(or what ever its name is) gave 2.3 million to the exhibit and while it may not be government money it was public funds collected through tax assessments.

[CPT Trips]

IIRC, the "problem with the Delaware River is not the channel depth, it's the bridge clearences. The newer ships don't draw any/much more water, but they are much higher above the waterline.

 

That pretty much leaves us with the Salem Port Authority, and I doubt their infrastructure is up to the task.

[Dave0311]

IIRC, the "problem with the Delaware River is not the channel depth, it's the bridge clearences. The newer ships don't draw any/much more water, but they are much higher above the waterline.

 

That pretty much leaves us with the Salem Port Authority, and I doubt their infrastructure is up to the task.

But isn't it the smaller (older) ships the cruise lines would be willing to send anyway? Assuming we could get a cruise line to come to Philadelphia and bridge clearance weren't a problem, I can't see a cruise line sending a huge ship (say, above 100,000 tons) to a port whose cruise history isn't the greatest.

[Philly Steve]

I've heard RCI's Vision class ships would be a nice fit.

[Dave0311]

I've heard RCI's Vision class ships would be a nice fit.

I agree! :D Hopefully Urban Outfitters Cruise Terminal will do a better job marketing to the cruise lines than the DRPA did. :p Seriously though, the DRPA's excuse of the cruise lines having only larger ships is so dumb. Even though we're just joking around, we've probably come up with a couple dozen ships that could fit under our bridges. :rolleyes: It's a shame the DRPA doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

In other news, our friend Bob Dickinson had this to say about Philadelphia back in 2002: "Philadelphia is an excellent location for cruise departures, particularly to Bermuda... In fact, bookings for this year's voyage were so strong that Carnival Legend will return to Philadelphia again next year to operate two more six-day Bermuda cruises in spring and fall 2003."

 

I found a similar quote from Adam Goldstein somewhere, but I can't find it now.

 

It's a shame things did a complete 180 from those days. :(

[Philly Steve]

In other news, our friend Bob Dickinson had this to say about Philadelphia back in 2002: "Philadelphia is an excellent location for cruise departures, particularly to Bermuda... In fact, bookings for this year's voyage were so strong that Carnival Legend will return to Philadelphia again next year to operate two more six-day Bermuda cruises in spring and fall 2003."

It's a shame things did a complete 180 from those days. :(

 

I agree that Philadelphia was/is an ideal embarkation point for Bermuda cruises. Our last four cruises were aboard RCI and NCL ships to Bermuda and we never tired of that destination. It's island paradise and we felt good about patronizing the Philly-based cruise industry.

 

There had been talk that Louis Cruises might return the former Norwegian Majesty to the Bermuda run out of Philly, given the popularity of those cruises but the infrastructure was just not there.

 

Also, RCI has sunk so much money into its Baltimore terminal, the chances of that line returning to Philly are probably slim to none.

 

That leaves Philadelphia with American Cruise Lines but river cruises are not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[Calgary North]

Just a notion - how about a week-long cruise that hits Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, and Norfolk (or some combination).

 

Start at one end on a (likely smaller) ship and finish at the other and take the Amtrak back to the original point of embarkation.

 

Perhaps go through the Chesapeake/Delaware Canal and call the whole thing the Colonial Tour

 

I don't know of current bridges or depths of the CD canal but these ships only draw 25 or 30 feet of water which must compare favourably with any sea-going vessels.

 

Regards

[Joe1690]

This is sad but the writing was on the wall. THE DRPA did not properly market the cruise terminal in Philly when the opportunity was right before Baltimore and Bayonne had a significant presence. At this point with sailings from Brooklyn, NYC, Bayonne, and Baltimore, the Philly cruise terminal has a lot of competition and it would be difficult to attract cruise lines and customers who are now used to sailing from these other ports. Plus, with the limitations on ship size the operators who are content with their current locations have little incentive to add capacity to another competing cruise port which would canabilize sales. The added benefit of Baltimore over Philly is not only that it is west which allows it to target people from western PA, Ohio, ad others but also from Virginia, West Virginia and other states south of Maryland. This has been the unique appeal of Baltimore and on many cruises you rarely see people from Philly or New York but mostly people from Maryland, Virginia, and the western surrounding states. Plus, I think the city of Philadelphia is pretty hard to deal with from what I have heard and not nearly as interested in cruising as New Jersey and Maryland were.

[Dave0311]

This is sad but the writing was on the wall. THE DRPA did not properly market the cruise terminal in Philly when the opportunity was right before Baltimore and Bayonne had a significant presence. At this point with sailings from Brooklyn, NYC, Bayonne, and Baltimore, the Philly cruise terminal has a lot of competition and it would be difficult to attract cruise lines and customers who are now used to sailing from these other ports. Plus, with the limitations on ship size the operators who are content with their current locations have little incentive to add capacity to another competing cruise port which would canabilize sales. The added benefit of Baltimore over Philly is not only that it is west which allows it to target people from western PA, Ohio, ad others but also from Virginia, West Virginia and other states south of Maryland. This has been the unique appeal of Baltimore and on many cruises you rarely see people from Philly or New York but mostly people from Maryland, Virginia, and the western surrounding states. Plus, I think the city of Philadelphia is pretty hard to deal with from what I have heard and not nearly as interested in cruising as New Jersey and Maryland were.

In your opinion (this is just pure speculation), do you think that if the DRPA did a better job marketing the cruise terminal before Baltimore/Bayonne took off that Philadelphia would be in a similar position that Baltimore has today (100+ cruises per year)? Or did Philly not really stand a chance because of its proximity to NYC?

[DanJ]

Just a notion - how about a week-long cruise that hits Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, and Norfolk (or some combination).

 

Start at one end on a (likely smaller) ship and finish at the other and take the Amtrak back to the original point of embarkation.

 

Perhaps go through the Chesapeake/Delaware Canal and call the whole thing the Colonial Tour

 

I don't know of current bridges or depths of the CD canal but these ships only draw 25 or 30 feet of water which must compare favourably with any sea-going vessels.

 

Regards

 

You need a foreign port stop and arrive back at the same port you departed from unless it's a US flagged vessel (meaning none of the ships in the main cruise line fleets, and the NCL America ship is only allowed to Hawaii).

[Dave0311]

Has anyone heard what the outcome of the DPRA vote on Wednesday was? The few news pieces I found didn't mention anything about the cruise terminal.

[Philly Steve]

Has anyone heard what the outcome of the DPRA vote on Wednesday was? The few news pieces I found didn't mention anything about the cruise terminal.

 

Haven't seen or heard anything about a separate final vote.

 

Likely the matter was simply folded into overall budget approval as the board acted on the matter earlier?

 

The one spot of good news from this meeting that included bridge toll and PATCO fare hikes is that it appears the RiverLink Ferry service will continue between Camden and Philly, at least for now.

[wiskt]

It really is a shame that Philly is being eliminated all together. By the time I started to get the fever for cruising they were already phasing it out. :(

 

You would think it was a win-win situation with everything to do here. Not to mention being able to unload a few thousand people into a city without needing to find parking spaces for them.

 

I would be happy if they would build a cruise terminal in Atlantic City, NJ, Cape May, Wildwood, NJ or Wilmington DE also.

[chestnutt]

Yes, pretty soon Philly will look like Detroit-Thank the unions! And the libtard dems who run the city that keep getting re-elected.

 

Getting tired of Miami, though, there's a real need for another East Coast City to step up. How about Savannah?

[reginab1979]

Is the Philly cruise terminal south of the Walt Whitman Bridge? If so then bridge height isn't much of an issue. The twin span Delaware Memorial Bridge is high enough to accomodate very large ships.

 

Let's face it, with the DRPA involved nothing is going to happen. No dredging, no cruise ships from Philly, nothing. It's difficult not to be negative. I would love to see ships leaving from Philly and would enjoy book a cruise that leaves only 10 minutes from my house. But I'm realistic. It's not going to happen. Maybe they will turn it into a warehouse. Or maybe just turn it into another Walmart.

[njhorseman]

Is the Philly cruise terminal south of the Walt Whitman Bridge? If so then bridge height isn't much of an issue. The twin span Delaware Memorial Bridge is high enough to accomodate very large ships.

 

Let's face it, with the DRPA involved nothing is going to happen. No dredging, no cruise ships from Philly, nothing. It's difficult not to be negative. I would love to see ships leaving from Philly and would enjoy book a cruise that leaves only 10 minutes from my house. But I'm realistic. It's not going to happen. Maybe they will turn it into a warehouse. Or maybe just turn it into another Walmart.

 

You've forgotten about the Commodore Barry Bridge, which is south of the cruise terminal.

[Dave0311]

You've forgotten about the Commodore Barry Bridge, which is south of the cruise terminal.

I believe the Commodore Barry Bridge has more clearance below it than the Delaware Memorial Bridge.

 

I still think it might be possible that the cruise lines might return to Philly, even if just for a summer to re-test the waters, if the right people would get the cruise terminal. Yes, it's a long shot, but it's better than no shot. :)

[reginab1979]

I think you're right about the Commodore Barry. In 2005 NCL lauched a ship called the Pride of America. Regis and Kelly broadcast their morning show from the new ship as it made stops in NYC, Philly and a few other cities. My husband and I happened to be fishing on the Delaware as the ship left Philly and cruised south on the Delaware past us. I don't know much about the ship, but it sure did look big from land.

 

I'm not sure that "size" is as issue as far as re-opening the terminal in Philly.

[Dave0311]

So I was at Harrahs Chester today, and I realized that the stands at the racetrack would've been a great place to watch the ships sail down the river. :( That could've been fun for cruise junkies like me. :o

[CPT Trips]

Delaware Memorial provides 174 feet of vertical clearance. NCL Dawn needs 195. Size matters.

[Dave0311]

Looks like Philly is offically out of the cruise business. Urban Outfitters is buying several buildings in the Navy Yard, including the cruise terminal. :(