Don't touch my junk!!!

[NU2]

GaNavy nailed it. /

[friedshrimp]

Actually, we agree on CCL's right to conduct an administrative search to board their ship. However, the part of your post that made me post my response was extending that to a government agencies right to conduct a physical pat-down against your will if they "think you are a threat".

 

 

 

I am not suggesting I have the right to do anything. No where in my post did I say that. What I am suggesting is that I have the right to not be subjected to unreasonable search without probable cause supported by Oath or affirmation conducted by TSA agents. That right is specifically granted to me by the Constitution.

 

If they think you are a threat then they have probable cause and can do a search without consent. If they do not think you are a threat, then you can decline the search and walk away without getting to where you want to go.

[urbanhawk]

Well now, there's the big question, isn't it - are we really safer? The guy with the shoe bomb and the Christmas bomber both made it through security - it was the passengers who nailed these bums. The guy in the Moscow airport didn't even have to go through security - are we going to put security at the airport door? outside at the drop-off? at the exit off the interstate?

 

There's no evidence I can see that these practices make us safer - if we want to believe they do, that's fine, but let's be real about it: we're taking people's word for it. As for those people's record...well...the FBI had intelligence that something was afoot, and that "something" turned out to be 9/11.

 

The point of terrorism isn't to take over someone's country; it's to make people so afraid that they change the way they live their lives. Every time I take my shoes off at an airport, I think that the terrorists are winning.

 

Anybody hear yet about a terrorist implement being found in any of these full-body-scans/pat-downs/junk-touchings? A show of hands.... I didn't think so. But I know I'll feel safe knowing that they've got people's rumrunners firmly in their sights... :rolleyes:

 

Ben Franklin said that a society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will wind up with neither. We seem to have lost that point.

 

No, I'm not afraid to fly, and I wouldn't be afraid if there weren't any metal detectors within 10 miles of the airport.

 

Just in response to your post, and Mr. Pete's (with the nun being searched). No, I don't really feel any safer-it's a bunch of crock-but, at the time, I was making a rationalization, which is a good coping skill, in me trying to deal with the pat down.....

 

This has been an interesting thread to say the least-I like everyone's input, thoughts, etc........

[gtalum]

If they think you are a threat then they have probable cause and can do a search without consent.

 

Wrong. You can walk away without being searched at any time in the process. There is some vague reference to an $11,000 fine, but as yet TSA has never yet had the nerve to apply it.

[samikitty]

If they think you are a threat then they have probable cause and can do a search without consent. If they do not think you are a threat, then you can decline the search and walk away without getting to where you want to go.

 

Nope. Nope. Nope. First, a TSA agent is not a LEO. Even though the DHS gave them a badge, they are not a LEO. They have no right to detain me. Second "if they think you are a threat" is not probable cause.

 

Can I give you a different example? If you are walking around the mall, and upon walking out of a store without purchasing anything, a mall cop decides that you are suspicious, can he legally forcefully detain you? Can he give you a pat down?

 

You can choose to give up your rights... but don't give up mine in the process.

[airmj2123]

Nope. Nope. Nope. First, a TSA agent is not a LEO. Even though the DHS gave them a badge, they are not a LEO. They have no right to detain me. Second "if they think you are a threat" is not probable cause.

 

Can I give you a different example? If you are walking around the mall, and upon walking out of a store without purchasing anything, a mall cop decides that you are suspicious, can he legally forcefully detain you? Can he give you a pat down?

 

You can choose to give up your rights... but don't give up mine in the process.

 

A mall cop can forcefully detain you and hold you until the cops come. It happens all of the time. It falls under citizens arrest laws. 49 of the 50 states allow citizens to arrest for any felony witnessed (North Carolina the exception). States have different rules for other crimes.

So TSA (depending on the state), more than likely have some authority to detain you until a cop is available to perform the search.

[near the beach]

I did not see any pat downs when we boarded the sensation in December. :eek: It's not Carnival that is doing the pat downs anyway. You can always go to Vegas. But there you have to pay to get the "pat down". :) I think it is interesting that someone says they don't think it is right to receive a pat down. But it is OK to smuggle liquor onto a ship.

[nrdsb4]

Well now, there's the big question, isn't it - are we really safer? The guy with the shoe bomb and the Christmas bomber both made it through security - it was the passengers who nailed these bums. The guy in the Moscow airport didn't even have to go through security - are we going to put security at the airport door? outside at the drop-off? at the exit off the interstate?

 

There's no evidence I can see that these practices make us safer - if we want to believe they do, that's fine, but let's be real about it: we're taking people's word for it. As for those people's record...well...the FBI had intelligence that something was afoot, and that "something" turned out to be 9/11.

 

The point of terrorism isn't to take over someone's country; it's to make people so afraid that they change the way they live their lives. Every time I take my shoes off at an airport, I think that the terrorists are winning.

 

Anybody hear yet about a terrorist implement being found in any of these full-body-scans/pat-downs/junk-touchings? A show of hands.... I didn't think so. But I know I'll feel safe knowing that they've got people's rumrunners firmly in their sights... :rolleyes:

 

Ben Franklin said that a society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will wind up with neither. We seem to have lost that point.

 

No, I'm not afraid to fly, and I wouldn't be afraid if there weren't any metal detectors within 10 miles of the airport.

 

I agree with much of what you've said. However, an argument could be made that the purpose of the pat downs, scans, etc., is not necessarily to end up with a load of terrorist implements at the end of the day, but to create a deterrent. No way to get 100%, but if there were NO detectors "within 10 miles of the airport," you've lost all semblance of a deterrent, and you're going to see problems. I personally think they need to shoot for the minimum amount of scrutiny which will not violate our rights/personal dignity but will still demonstrate to potential terrorists that it would be unwise to bring weapons or other "terrorist implements" onto an airplane.

 

There is no way for the TSA to make everyone happy on this subject. I personally feel they've gone overboard relative to the benefit their policies are bringing to safety.

[dan40]

Well now, there's the big question, isn't it - are we really safer? The guy with the shoe bomb and the Christmas bomber both made it through security - it was the passengers who nailed these bums. The guy in the Moscow airport didn't even have to go through security - are we going to put security at the airport door? outside at the drop-off? at the exit off the interstate?

 

There's no evidence I can see that these practices make us safer - if we want to believe they do, that's fine, but let's be real about it: we're taking people's word for it. As for those people's record...well...the FBI had intelligence that something was afoot, and that "something" turned out to be 9/11.

 

The point of terrorism isn't to take over someone's country; it's to make people so afraid that they change the way they live their lives. Every time I take my shoes off at an airport, I think that the terrorists are winning.

 

Anybody hear yet about a terrorist implement being found in any of these full-body-scans/pat-downs/junk-touchings? A show of hands.... I didn't think so. But I know I'll feel safe knowing that they've got people's rumrunners firmly in their sights... :rolleyes:

 

Ben Franklin said that a society that will trade a little liberty for a little security will wind up with neither. We seem to have lost that point.

 

No, I'm not afraid to fly, and I wouldn't be afraid if there weren't any metal detectors within 10 miles of the airport.

 

I have read that HUNDREDS of guns and knives have been confiscated at airports. Supposedly carried by people that "forgot" they had the weapon with them.

 

But I have not read about a terrorist being arrested because something was found while he/she was being groped, or "freedom fondled."

[pnjkeith]

TSA = TRANSPORTATION SCREWUP AGENCY

Soon they will be a union. Go Big Goberment!!

[SailBabySail]

I'd rather not drink anything from anyone's underpants. :p

 

You made my day...that is just too funny :D

[NS-Cruiser]

Geez, what happens if someone is wearing a "real" colostomy bag instead of the used ones they use to make RumRunners?

 

These "Freedom Fondles" are going too far!

 

I have a real ostomy bag, and while going through the TSA check at Tampa airport, I was sent through the full body scanner, then pulled aside and patted down. Then they wanted to test the "contents" to make sure I was not smuggling any explosives:eek:.... a bit embarrassing, but after the fact I felt a bit more secure, knowing that they do check and try to keep everyone safe.;)

 

If they had just said "oh, sorry - its a medical device, go ahead" WITHOUT checking the contents, then it would have negated the entire check.

 

Prior to that particular check, it had only been the "metal detector" type of checkpoints, and I passed through them all without issue... no pat downs or anything... could have carried on anything in there - so long as I didn't mind mixing it with the "regular" contents of my ostomy:eek:

[Cushing985]

I've quickly skimmed through this entire thread and found some of the postings were great and some were a bit scary.

 

Personally, I feel the TSA is a joke...unfortunately the taxpayers are paying for this stand-up act. I also feel people who feel a need to smuggle booze onboard really can't afford to cruise. They can put out all the justifications (I like living on the edge, I live dangerously, etc and blah, blah) but the bottom line is they just can't afford the cruise and to drink responsibly.

[Cupcrazy]

Do you think they'll stop me if I try to board with my beer helmet on?

FYI this isn't me