Smoking in cabins

[gelo7]

As smoking threads go, this one didn't get too bad:p

[crusintwo]

For those who have an interest in smoking (or non-smoking) on Holland America cruises, I have some information that may be useful. My wife and I recently returned from two weeks on the Nieuw Amsterdam, and at the end of our cruise the passenger feedback form included an additional poll asking for feedback on smoking issues. It had questions like "Would you sail on Holland America if smoking were banned in staterooms?", and a few others.

 

Smoking seems to be an issue that has come to the attention of Holland America management, and it looks like they're trolling to see what the blowback would be if they further restricted smoking on the ship.

 

Neither my wife nor I are smokers, but on the other hand we don't have an anti-smoking agenda and try to respect those who like to smoke. That being said, we paid a lot of money for a room with a verandah on our cruise and were frequently blown off of it by nearby smokers. Often, we couldn't be on our own balcony without breathing in large volumes of second-hand smoke, even while the ship was at sea. There was very little fresh sea air outside our stateroom, and we let Holland America know that we didn't appreciate the arrangement.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but hopefully Holland America can find a solution that's acceptable to all.

[Richie2pies]

That smoking survey has been in existence for quite a while now. I think it's just an effort to mollify people into thinking they are seriously looking at banning smoking. As long as smokers are spending $$$, nothing will change in the near future.

[startwin]

That smoking survey has been in existence for quite a while now. I think it's just an effort to mollify people into thinking they are seriously looking at banning smoking. As long as smokers are spending $$$, nothing will change in the near future.

 

How much more does a smoker spend than a non-smoker? And how do they measure it?

[james90210]

I won't be smoking in my cabin now that I know about poor ventilation etc.

I do feel you should be allowed to smoke on the balcony tho if you have one.

 

That said me being me. I would worry a bit about other's enjoying there balcony if smoke was going near then. Does this mean I wouldn't smoke if I had a balcony. No, but i would try to be considerate if I could.

 

Now I know that i can get to a smoking area pretty fast from my cabin its ok for me.

 

Smoking aside. Are interior cabins stuffy at all? Does it feel confined in any way with no window etc?

[james90210]

How much more does a smoker spend than a non-smoker? And how do they measure it?

 

Do you mean buying cigarettes on board? I can't see any other way they could make money from a smoker.

[peaches from georgia]

Do you mean buying cigarettes on board? I can't see any other way they could make money from a smoker.

I think on average as a group it has been said that smokers tend to gamble and drink more than non-smokers, both major revenue sources on ships. No, I can't cite the studies, so don't bother demanding that. But it has been given many times as one reason the 'no smoking anywhere' Carnival ship failed and why casinos on ships and land allow smoking.

[dmwnc1959]

Do you mean buying cigarettes on board? I can't see any other way they could make money from a smoker.

 

 

I believe the logic behind that type of 'argument' from a smoker is that they spend more money at bars and in the casino than non-smokers. I truly believe if these places were made completely 'smoke free' non-smokers would easily provide as much revenue as smokers. I for one, who never visited or used a casino on any of my Holland-America cruises, would be considerably more likely to do so knowing I wouldn't be inhaling second hand smoke and come out smelling like an ashtray. All it takes is a small handful of smokers to run non-smokers out, and that loss of revenue is what Holland-America should be considering.

[dmwnc1959]

But it has been given many times as one reason the 'no smoking anywhere' Carnival ship failed and why casinos on ships and land allow smoking.

 

I cruised the Carnival Paradise on her inaugural. She was at that time a GREAT ship. In the long term the problem was getting the ship filled, and with non-smokers. And the biggest problem with that is there is almost always one person in the party, couple, or group, that smokes. Entire families were being kicked off the ship in Caribbean ports of call and forced to fly home at their own expense because of one persons indiscretion and penalized $250 for cleaning the room when they attempted to break the rules. The ship had the No Smoking symbol PAINTED on the side of the forward superstructure and FLEW a No Smoking flag. Yet people still tried to sneak a smoke. Eventually it became too hard to fill an entire cruise ship with 2,500 non-smokers every week that fit the Carnival Cruise Lines demographics. So it's not so much that the ship failed per se, on the contrary, the No Smoking aspect was loved by those who cruised her for the five years she was smoke-free. There just weren't enough COMPLETELY non-smoking families, groups, and couples to fill her day-in and day-out, 52 weeks a year. It lasted 5 years, but in the long run smoking was allowed on the ship to recover loss revenue from not being able to fill the ship with a couple of thousand non-smokers every week.*

 

On a side note ALL of the casinos on Celebrity Cruises are completely non-smoking. I wonder how their revenue stream compares to that if casinos on Holland-America's ships.

[james90210]

I think on average as a group it has been said that smokers tend to gamble and drink more than non-smokers, both major revenue sources on ships. No, I can't cite the studies, so don't bother demanding that. But it has been given many times as one reason the 'no smoking anywhere' Carnival ship failed and why casinos on ships and land allow smoking.

 

 

This actually makes sense..

[crusintwo]

I won't be smoking in my cabin now that I know about poor ventilation etc.

I do feel you should be allowed to smoke on the balcony tho if you have one.

 

That would seem to make sense -- in fact, as non-smokers, neither my wife nor I were worried in the least about smokers on their balconies. Logically, the smoke would quickly dissipate and blow away, right? Well, unfortunately, the way the balconies are constructed (on the Nieuw Amsterdam, anyway), the smoke doesn't just blow out to sea. It's pushed over and through other balconies. And it's not just a little smoke, either.

 

I don't think HAL needs to ban smoking entirely. They may want to consider allowing smoking in certain staterooms and balconies -- primarily in the aft sections of the ship, where the smoke will tend to blow off and away rather than alongside. They could also have designated smoking areas -- maybe a lounge with appropriate ventilation, and areas up top.

 

Again, I'm not on some sort of anti-smoking rant. But it's a fact that there are people who smoke and people who don't, and those who don't have a right to the quiet (and smoke-free) use of their balconies. The second-hand smoke on our balcony on the Nieuw Amsterdam was overpowering. I know some other passengers were blown off their verandahs by smoke as well and were not happy about it.

[james90210]

That would seem to make sense -- in fact, as non-smokers, neither my wife nor I were worried in the least about smokers on their balconies. Logically, the smoke would quickly dissipate and blow away, right? Well, unfortunately, the way the balconies are constructed (on the Nieuw Amsterdam, anyway), the smoke doesn't just blow out to sea. It's pushed over and through other balconies. And it's not just a little smoke, either.

 

I don't think HAL needs to ban smoking entirely. They may want to consider allowing smoking in certain staterooms and balconies -- primarily in the aft sections of the ship, where the smoke will tend to blow off and away rather than alongside. They could also have designated smoking areas -- maybe a lounge with appropriate ventilation, and areas up top.

 

Again, I'm not on some sort of anti-smoking rant. But it's a fact that there are people who smoke and people who don't, and those who don't have a right to the quiet (and smoke-free) use of their balconies. The second-hand smoke on our balcony on the Nieuw Amsterdam was overpowering. I know some other passengers were blown off their verandahs by smoke as well and were not happy about it.

 

I think your post was balanced and reasonable. :)

 

if they were able to make only certain sections of ship where you could smoke on your balcony. This could help maybe.

At least people would know that if they have a room in this area with balcony they may experience smoke etc.

 

As I said I would worry a bit about others around me if I smoked on a balcony. But as I said that is just the way I am. I really would want to smoke on my balcony. not that I would be out there much at all hehe

[GeriatricNurse]

That smoking survey has been in existence for quite a while now. I think it's just an effort to mollify people into thinking they are seriously looking at banning smoking. As long as smokers are spending $$$, nothing will change in the near future.

 

 

So, if only 20% are smokers, then, I guess that the smokers spend as much as or more then the 80% of non smokers, apparantly enough so that smoking cannot be eliminated, for example, in both the staterooms & on the balconies, such as X & other cruiselines have done! ;) Gosh, has X gone out of business yet with their (more) restrictive smoking policy? :confused:

[GeriatricNurse]

How much more does a smoker spend than a non-smoker? And how do they measure it?

 

Excellent questions! :) Perhaps HAL could provide us with some valid statistics to answer these questions! ;)

[Rutland Gate]

Excellent questions! :) Perhaps HAL could provide us with some valid statistics to answer these questions! ;)

 

 

Why?

[two4me]

James90210- What was the question again? Seems it got lost, IMO.

[james90210]

This thread has gone on for a while now.

My next question may get me flamed.

 

I have read several time's I think, that people never smelt smoke when they check into there cabin.

So what does it matter too much if HAL allow smoking in cabins?

If anything its more work for stewards to make them smell ok.

 

Royal Caribbean they allow smoking in casino etc also don't they?

Is Hal's smoking policy apart from there cabins that different from other lines?

 

maybe I should not have added anymore and thread will just die out lol.

But I feel that at times I feel a tad defensive.

[dirtgirl]

Royal Caribbean does not allow smoking in the cabins, but it is allowed on the balconies. That is the same with Disney.

 

The lines that allow smoking in the cabins are:

NCL

HAL

Princess

Carnival

MSC

Costa

Cunard

 

Most of the above lines are owned by Carnival.

 

The upscale lines are more restrictive in their policies. Oceania, Azamara, Regent, Silversea, Paul Gauguin, Crystal etc do not allow smoking in the cabins or on the balconies.

 

Celebrity is the most restrictive of the Contemporary/Premium Lines. Royal Caribbean is the only Contemporary line that does not allow smoking in the cabins.

 

I have to know all this because some of my clients will not book on cruise lines that allow smoking in the cabins. I have had people choose Celebrity or RCI over other lines for that reason.

 

All the casinos in British Columbia are smoke-free, and they do a booming business. You can't smoke anywhere inside a public building in this province. I have to say that it makes me really notice smoke more when I go on a ship - it really hits me.

 

I've toured many HAL ships, going into different cabins, and to be honest, I only smelled smoke in one of them - a suite on the Volendam. We'll see next week when I board my first HAL cruise what I experience! If my cabin smells of smoke, I will be asking for a deep clean.

[Arwen]

This thread has gone on for a while now.

My next question may get me flamed.

 

I have read several time's I think, that people never smelt smoke when they check into there cabin.

So what does it matter too much if HAL allow smoking in cabins?

If anything its more work for stewards to make them smell ok.

 

Royal Caribbean they allow smoking in casino etc also don't they?

Is Hal's smoking policy apart from there cabins that different from other lines?

 

maybe I should not have added anymore and thread will just die out lol.

But I feel that at times I feel a tad defensive.

 

Ok, I am not going to flame you, but make a gentle correction here. I have sailed 8 times with HAL and two times our stateroom reeked, including the shower tile surround and the shower curtain. Both times necessitated us vacating our stateroom because of the ionizer. On that second occasion even the ionizer did not remove the smoke odor because it had so permeated everything.

 

That being said, I feel nauseous when I smell stale smoke (worse than fresh, IMHO). I agree a smoker should have the right to smoke in their stateroom IF a cruise line CAN guarantee the next guest that their stateroom will be scrubbed down completely, drapes, carpets, walls, etc. and ready for them upon embarkation.

 

I think both groups can be accommodated, but we must respect each others needs. That is what this thread is all about :)

[peaches from georgia]

 

The upscale lines are more restrictive in their policies. Oceania, Azamara, Regent, Silversea, Paul Gauguin, Crystal etc do not allow smoking in the cabins or on the balconies.

 

Crystal allows smoking in cabins.

 

Seabourn allows smoking in cabins and on verandahs.

[dirtgirl]

Crystal allows smoking in cabins.

 

Seabourn allows smoking in cabins and on verandahs.

 

 

Thank you for the correction. I found Crystal's policy's wording a bit confusing.

Seabourn doesn't allow smoking in the casino, but allows it in the cabin. Odd.

[jkrislc]

So, if only 20% are smokers, then, I guess that the smokers spend as much as or more then the 80% of non smokers, apparantly enough so that smoking cannot be eliminated, for example, in both the staterooms & on the balconies, such as X & other cruiselines have done! ;) Gosh, has X gone out of business yet with their (more) restrictive smoking policy? :confused:

 

Keep in mind that not all nonsmokers are bothered by smoke and some continue to gamble, hang out in bars, etc. despite the smoke. The only money being lost is among those nonsmokers who do not want to subject themselves to the smoke, which is a smaller, albeit more vocal, sample of the nonsmoking population.

 

I for one avoid the casino because of the smoke, but do realize that it is part of the "ritual" for some people, even those who are only occasional (situational) smokers. I for one would be happy with a couple of smoke-free nights in the casino as a nonsmoker.

 

Regarding the smell in cabins mentioned by a PP, I have never noticed it in any of the cabins I've occupied and I'm very sensitive to it. So sensitive in fact that I can't go into a family member's car even when she's not smoking as the stale smoke (for lack of another word) is more aggravating to me than "fresh" smoke. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I didn't even notice it in some of the inside cabins we've had nor has it been much of a problem while we've cruised in balconies and/or suites.

[peaches from georgia]

Thank you for the correction. I found Crystal's policy's wording a bit confusing.

Seabourn doesn't allow smoking in the casino, but allows it in the cabin. Odd.

Seabourn must use the same type of cleaning system that HAL does in the cabins. Rarely, very rarely, do even the most vocal of anti-smokers complain of cigarette odor in the cabins on this HAL board and I haven't heard one complaint on Seabourn. Casinos are a different story with so many smokers in a large area.

[james90210]

Ok, I am not going to flame you, but make a gentle correction here. I have sailed 8 times with HAL and two times our stateroom reeked, including the shower tile surround and the shower curtain. Both times necessitated us vacating our stateroom because of the ionizer. On that second occasion even the ionizer did not remove the smoke odor because it had so permeated everything.

 

That being said, I feel nauseous when I smell stale smoke (worse than fresh, IMHO). I agree a smoker should have the right to smoke in their stateroom IF a cruise line CAN guarantee the next guest that their stateroom will be scrubbed down completely, drapes, carpets, walls, etc. and ready for them upon embarkation.

 

I think both groups can be accommodated, but we must respect each others needs. That is what this thread is all about :)

 

 

I did mean that the remarks I read indicated that they never smelt any smoke.

Sorry if that came across that no one ever did :)

[Arwen]

["I did mean that the remarks I read indicated that they never smelt any smoke.

Sorry if that came across that no one ever did"]

 

No apology necessary!

 

I just wanted to speak up that I had two unhappy stateroom experiences.