Smoking in cabins

[RevNeal]

For those who have an interest in smoking (or non-smoking) on Holland America cruises, I have some information that may be useful. My wife and I recently returned from two weeks on the Nieuw Amsterdam, and at the end of our cruise the passenger feedback form included an additional poll asking for feedback on smoking issues. It had questions like "Would you sail on Holland America if smoking were banned in staterooms?", and a few others.

 

Smoking seems to be an issue that has come to the attention of Holland America management, and it looks like they're trolling to see what the blowback would be if they further restricted smoking on the ship.

 

You mean THIS poll:

 

 

As has already been said, this precise survey is not new: it has been in use for a couple of years. This photographed form was the one I filled out aboard the Zaandam at the end of my January 2010 cruise to Hawaii. At the time I thought it was interesting that I had been filling out these forms for several years and that my answers were always the same. Also, I noticed that the inclusion of the Mariner ID number makes it possible for HAL to track everyone's responses to the survey and build up a profile of their mariner base relative to this question.

 

Since they began running these smoking surveys there have been quite a few changes made to the smoking policies aboard ship. I cannot help but conclude that these changes have come as a result of these surveys. Some of these changes happened in early 2009, when HAL significantly reduced the number of public smoking areas inboard their vessels. It was immediately following this change in policy that we saw a significant up-tick in the amount of concern over in-cabin and on-balcony smoking. It was also after this change in policy that the current wording of the survey appeared -- wording that shifted the question from smoking in lounges to smoking in cabins and on balconies.

 

That HAL continues to run the survey -- tracking the responses of their mariners by their mariner numbers -- tells me that HAL is either confirming their adjustment in their policy, or is actively seeking guidance regarding further adjustments. I would tend to suspect the latter.

[nfcu]

It always amazes me how many people cite the reasons why Carnival's Paradise failed as a non-smoking ship, when few know the facts.

 

Read Bob Dickinson's (Carnival Presdent) book "Selling the Sea". On page 36 he states that after an eight year run, Carnival had to give up on the Paradise as a non-smoking ship because "non-smokers drank and gambled far less than their smoking counterparts. The estimated lost profit opportunity amounted to as much as $16 million per year by the time the Paradise was converted to a traditional smoking cruise ship".

 

These are Bob's words, not mine. $16 million per year is a lot of money.

[hulamoon]

I believe MSC has restricted balcony smoking and highly discourages smoking in cabins, not sure what that means.

 

I have been reading about the Paradise being an economic failure due to it's smoking policy for years on these boards. The point seems to be HAL could not possibly add non smoking rooms because they would go under.

 

But my question is, if the policy dooms cruise ships, how is it X can be putting out 5 ships, all that carry more passengers than the Signature class ships and seem to be doing okay. I don't have access to their books, but they surely would stop the new builds or make a change in policy if this wasn't working, wouldn't they?

[rafinmd]

It seems I frequently read on these forums statements like "we've been filling in these surveys for years and nothing happens". As RevNeal has posted, and another frequent poster mentions in his signature, things ARE changing on HAL, to slowly for some and too fast for others, but the surveys and other input are being considered. Perhaps Celebrity's relative success with their policies indicates that there is a core of dedicated one-issue non smokers to fill their ships, but perhaps not much more than that. Personally I tend to like their smoking policy, but the absence of a decent Promenade deck on their ships is pretty much a deal breaker for me.

 

Roy

[hulamoon]

I like promenades too. HAL has very lovely features, trust me change has been hard. But in the end I figured I must need a dose of self care, as I needed my inhaler more on a cruise ship than I do on land. So we are trying something else and see what happens next.

[james90210]

Looking at the survey.

If they did deside to prohibit smoking on all parts of the ship. I for one would chose another line.

I agree there needs to balance.. But a Total No Smoking on board, is a big no no for me.

[hulamoon]

I can't imagine HAL or any other line going for complete non smoking. They all have areas for smoking.

[peaches from georgia]

I can't imagine HAL or any other line going for complete non smoking. They all have areas for smoking.

That's what Carnival Paradise did- totally non-smoking. Doesn't work for assorted reasons, but with all non-smoking you prevent too many folks from cruising where 1 or a few in their party smoke and that keeps the whole group from booking.

[cruzingmissy]

For those who have an interest in smoking (or non-smoking) on Holland America cruises, I have some information that may be useful. My wife and I recently returned from two weeks on the Nieuw Amsterdam, and at the end of our cruise the passenger feedback form included an additional poll asking for feedback on smoking issues. It had questions like "Would you sail on Holland America if smoking were banned in staterooms?", and a few others.

 

Smoking seems to be an issue that has come to the attention of Holland America management, and it looks like they're trolling to see what the blowback would be if they further restricted smoking on the ship.

 

Neither my wife nor I are smokers, but on the other hand we don't have an anti-smoking agenda and try to respect those who like to smoke. That being said, we paid a lot of money for a room with a verandah on our cruise and were frequently blown off of it by nearby smokers. Often, we couldn't be on our own balcony without breathing in large volumes of second-hand smoke, even while the ship was at sea. There was very little fresh sea air outside our stateroom, and we let Holland America know that we didn't appreciate the arrangement.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but hopefully Holland America can find a solution that's acceptable to all.

 

This is exactly what I am afraid of. DH and I spent a lot of money to have a balcony for our upcoming Med cruise on the NA. From what I am reading I am afraid that we wasted money as we may not be able to use the balcony if it is smokey outside. I am sorry for those who smoke but as long as there are designated smoking areas I think balconies should be left smoke free so that all can enjoy them.

[james90210]

This is exactly what I am afraid of. DH and I spent a lot of money to have a balcony for our upcoming Med cruise on the NA. From what I am reading I am afraid that we wasted money as we may not be able to use the balcony if it is smokey outside. I am sorry for those who smoke but as long as there are designated smoking areas I think balconies should be left smoke free so that all can enjoy them.

 

 

I do understand why you said this I really do.

That said I don't really agree. Smoker's also pay the same amount for the balcony. So why should we not be allowed to smoke out there?

Of course it would be frustrating if you can smell others smoke, and I have already said it is a bit of a concern for me.

But if I paid the large amount for a balcony I would want to be able to smoke on it.

If only Hal etc could find a way like others have suggested to make it certain balcony area's only.

[Kini12]

I did mean that the remarks I read indicated that they never smelt any smoke.

Sorry if that came across that no one ever did :)

 

"smelt" is ia fish, or to refine metal.

[startwin]

I would be happy if HAL stopped the smoking in cabins, just as a safety measure. Honestly, that really worries me. And ideally some sections of balconies could be non-smoking, but I would rather put up with smoking on the neighbouring balconies than worry about the fire risks of smoking in the cabins.:eek:

[fann1sh]

It always amazes me how many people cite the reasons why Carnival's Paradise failed as a non-smoking ship, when few know the facts.

 

Read Bob Dickinson's (Carnival Presdent) book "Selling the Sea". On page 36 he states that after an eight year run, Carnival had to give up on the Paradise as a non-smoking ship because "non-smokers drank and gambled far less than their smoking counterparts. The estimated lost profit opportunity amounted to as much as $16 million per year by the time the Paradise was converted to a traditional smoking cruise ship".

 

These are Bob's words, not mine. $16 million per year is a lot of money.

 

100% correct.

 

But, the one constant these days is change.

 

Paradise was a non-smoking ship from 1998 - 2003.

 

Those eight years seem like a "blink" to me. But there have been enormous shifts in laws and attitudes regarding tobacco use in that time.

 

In 2006, my Canadian province implemented laws which the government bragged (no other word for it) were the strictest anti-tobacco legislation in North America.

 

My law dropped when nearby Michigan followed suit last year in 2010.

 

And...can you believe it.... there's now a non-smoking casino...in Detroit?

 

Carnival executives have long memories, and I doubt there will be a fantailed non smoking ship in the near future. No bets on Royal Caribbean market testing the idea, though.

[DizzyDallasDi]

I would be happy if HAL stopped the smoking in cabins, just as a safety measure. Honestly, that really worries me. And ideally some sections of balconies could be non-smoking, but I would rather put up with smoking on the neighbouring balconies than worry about the fire risks of smoking in the cabins.:eek:

 

I don't recall ever reading that a cigarette caused a cabin fire. It may have happened, but it must be an extremely rare occurance or else it would be cited over and over on the boards.

[jcrandle]

I don't recall ever reading that a cigarette caused a cabin fire. It may have happened, but it must be an extremely rare occurance or else it would be cited over and over on the boards.

 

Perhaps you should read about the balcony fire on the Princess ship.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Princess

[dockrocker]

"smelt" is ia fish, or to refine metal.

 

It's also a simple past tense of "smell" to many English speakers from various parts of the world, including the U.K.

 

Thanks for weighing in on behalf of the ugly American contingent.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Perhaps you should read about the balcony fire on the Princess ship.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Princess

 

First, the fire was started on a balcony not in a room. The poster I was responding to was concerned about cabin smoking and didn't mention a concern about balcony smoking.

 

Second, the article you pointed me to said the fire was "probably" started by a cigarette left on the balcony. Apparently the definitive cause is not known. In addition, the article went on to enumerate several problems that contributed to the fire that could have prevented such devestation.

 

Third, it's one fire in thousands and thousands and thousands of cruises with people smoking onboard. Pretty good odds if you ask me. :D

[hulamoon]

Wikipedia may not be the best source of the information. Check out the Princess boards, there are folks there who were on the ship, or say they were.

 

"Third, it's one fire in thousands and thousands and thousands of cruises with people smoking onboard. Pretty good odds if you ask me." :D Quote from DizzyDallasDi

 

DizzyDallasDi...That was a brazen tempt of fate post if I ever read one. Do you watch disaster films? Someone always says something like that before bad stuff happens. Hmm let's see what was that movie about the ship sinking?:D

[mightycruisequeen]

Second, the article you pointed me to said the fire was "probably" started by a cigarette left on the balcony. Apparently the definitive cause is not known. In addition, the article went on to enumerate several problems that contributed to the fire that could have prevented such devestation.

Yup, usually, when a cigarette starts a fire, the cigarette burns up, leaving not a lot of evidence, except,of course, a BIG fire:eek::

[Hlitner]

That Princess fire report was quite interesting. As a result Princess spent a lot of money and installed outdoor sprinkers and heat detectors on all their balconies. As to the cause, there are some smokers that want to argue it was not a cigarette. But the reality is that the only way any fire could have started on that balcony was if something very hot and burning landed on that balcony as there is nothing else out there that could start a fire. Speculation was that somebody tossed a cigarette off the upper deck or another balcony and it got sucked back onto the balcony where the fire originated. This is the reason that cruise ships always remind passengers not to throw anything overboard (because it can blow back into another balcony). What really amazed us about that incident was the fact that the plastic materials used on the balconies (floor and dividers) could catch fire. You would have thought that the marine architects would have used materials that were fire resistant.

 

Hank

[lollytw]

This is exhausting, isn't it? I just want to CRUISE. I just want to have fun. Will it be okay if I puff on an occasional cigarette on my balcony? I'll do my best to make sure there is no one downwind who will suffer the consequences. I will never smoke in undesignated areas. I'll try and follow all the rules. I'll try not to complain too much and try to dress appropriately for the dress code. I'll try not to wear too much perfume or be too loud or butt in line or complain too loudly (I doubt I'll be complaining). I just really want to have a fun, relaxing time, which I what I'm paying for. Will do my best not to interfere with your right to have the same. :)

[james90210]

"smelt" is ia fish, or to refine metal.

 

Other than being condescending, is there some other point you wanted to make?

Smelt in the context I used, is often said in England.

Also I am dyslexic and always a bit uncertain of stuff when writing on forums. So I feel it was not needed you posting that.

[CtheW0rld]

the cause of the princess fire was never solved. it was also speculated that an irate teen started the fire on purpose.

 

as for wiki - the content is user-created. i could go out there right now and change it.

[silverado44]

It's also a simple past tense of "smell" to many English speakers from various parts of the world, including the U.K.

 

Thanks for weighing in on behalf of the ugly American contingent.

 

The past tense of smell is smelled, not smelt.

[dmwnc1959]

the cause of the princess fire was never solved. it was also speculated that an irate teen started the fire on purpose.

 

as for wiki - the content is user-created. i could go out there right now and change it.

 

The official report never mentions the speculation of a teen starting the fire:

 

From Page 47: "The fire started on the balconies in the vicinity of staterooms C316 and C318, on deck 10, and was probably ignited by a cigarette end discarded elsewhere."

 

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Star%20Princess.pdf

 

Take a look at the pictures from Page 19-23 of the report. Absolutely incredible images!!!!