Unbeliveable Aboard Westerdam

[jhannah]

[quote name='Time2sail']Don't you wash your hands before you eat?[/QUOTE] Um ... I truly believe, from observation, that the vast majority do not. But even those who do will still rub their eye or pick something out from between their teeth before they wash their hands.

[Seadoc]

Truly quaint!

The kid dumps in the pool - the moronic mommy dutifully does a diaper change and the witness (OP) reports this to HAL (the ever-vigilant source of dress codes, booze protocols, "fine cruising" and similar blather) and - predictably- the crack HAL hierarchy does...........(drum roll)..........NOTHING!

The terminally-self-important-and-technologically-superior HAL cruisers babble to each other on their snazzy new walkie-talkies (soon to be the ubiquitous cellphones preferred by the majority of American boors), possibly (likely?) disturbing the tranquility (at $150-$250 per diem yet) bought and paid for by those within earshot. HAL's policy on walkie-talkies, cellphones and boorishness? Non-existent or a "work in progress" or "we're taking these issues under consideration" or, perhaps most likely, "our august clientele certainly doesn't include moronic mommies or boors, so what's your problem, sir?

These (and similar) issues discussed here would seem to verify beyond question the two fundamental "truths" offered in Econ. 101:

1. Corporate BS (and inaction) confirm the difference between perception (read HAL "marketing") and reality (the above).
2. You get what you pay for. If you prefer, in your selection of available cruiselines, dumpless pools (and corporate non-response) and an absence of boors (and corporate non-response), you may have to cruise less often but pay the price for Seaborne, Radisson, Silversea, Oceania, Crystal, Sea Dream, etc. While none of them is "perfect", the probability of the above events occurring on their ships is markedly smaller (this statement based not on wishful thinking or delusion but personal experience).

[xpcdoojk]

[quote name='Seadoc']Truly quaint!

The kid dumps in the pool - the moronic mommy dutifully does a diaper change and the witness (OP) reports this to HAL (the ever-vigilant source of dress codes, booze protocols, "fine cruising" and similar blather) and - predictably- the crack HAL hierarchy does...........(drum roll)..........NOTHING!

The terminally-self-important-and-technologically-superior HAL cruisers babble to each other on their snazzy new walkie-talkies (soon to be the ubiquitous cellphones preferred by the majority of American boors), possibly (likely?) disturbing the tranquility (at $150-$250 per diem yet) bought and paid for by those within earshot. HAL's policy on walkie-talkies, cellphones and boorishness? Non-existent or a "work in progress" or "we're taking these issues under consideration" or, perhaps most likely, "our august clientele certainly doesn't include moronic mommies or boors, so what's your problem, sir?

These (and similar) issues discussed here would seem to verify beyond question the two fundamental "truths" offered in Econ. 101:

1. Corporate BS (and inaction) confirm the difference between perception (read HAL "marketing") and reality (the above).
2. You get what you pay for. If you prefer, in your selection of available cruiselines, dumpless pools (and corporate non-response) and an absence of boors (and corporate non-response), you may have to cruise less often but pay the price for Seaborne, Radisson, Silversea, Oceania, Crystal, Sea Dream, etc. While none of them is "perfect", the probability of the above events occurring on their ships is markedly smaller (this statement based not on wishful thinking or delusion but personal experience).[/QUOTE]


Huh?:confused: ;)

Could someone translate this and I am an economist!:confused:

jc

[JDee]

[quote name='bonnyweed']If I meet someone on the cruise who I want to have a bath with, I'll take him back to my cabin.[/QUOTE]

Now that is real togetherness..[img]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon10.gif[/img]

[JDee]

[quote name='xpcdoojk']Huh?:confused: ;)

Could someone translate this and I am an economist!:confused:
[/QUOTE]

That would be a kissin-kousin to "Greenspeak." [img]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif[/img]

[Time2sail]

"Again, I would like for everyone to consider reading Chrichton's new book "State of Fear". It should be required reading. "

Since you have mentioned this twice, I will read it. But, it had better be a fun book because I don't like to read books that aren't fun.:)

Plus, I am ignorant and proud of it so it had better not have any learning in it.

[xpcdoojk]

[quote name='Time2sail']"Again, I would like for everyone to consider reading Chrichton's new book "State of Fear". It should be required reading. "

Since you have mentioned this twice, I will read it. But, it had better be a fun book because I don't like to read books that aren't fun.:)

Plus, I am ignorant and proud of it so it had better not have any learning in it.[/QUOTE]

He is a very bright guy, MC, and there is tons of research including footnotes, but yes it is a fun book. I bought it a month ago, and was not really ready to read another jurassic park. I was more than pleasantly surprised. I finished it in 2 nights. Excellent book, a page turner.

jc

[Landlubber54]

[font=Arial Black][color=blue]Like some of the people on this thread, my DW (who I love very much) tends to look at every situation as though the worst possible outcome is the most likely. [/color][/font][font=Arial Black][color=blue]Whatever happened to common sense? Certainly there are risks in day-to-day living, but swimming in a public pool that is properly maintained (not perfectly, properly) is not the same as being subjected to an anthrax attack. I won't be drinking the pool water (at least, not intentionally:eek: ) and I will shower afterwards (both at the pool and back at my cabin). [/color][/font]

[font=Arial Black][color=blue]Just as this web site proves, the internet sometimes provides us with access to simply too much information -- both good and bad...:cool: [/color][/font]

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='xpcdoojk']Don't forget the germs on your money. Think how many people touch it. They go to the bathroom at the ballpark and then they go buy a hotdog and a beer then the lady who takes his money hands him a hot dog. The process is neverending.

jc[/QUOTE]

[font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=3]You know what I say????? I say ... give up money. It will solve all sorts of problems and on top of that ... no germs. Get out of the pools and give up the money. Stay in your house and spray Lysol on everyone who walks in the door. Everything will be fine.[/size][/font]
[font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=3][/size][/font]
:D

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='bonnyweed']............. If I meet someone on the cruise who I want to have a bath with, I'll take him back to my cabin.[/QUOTE]

Bonnyweed, this is priceless ... absolutely priceless[img]http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05b9a/08[/img]. I just had to tell you that. If anyone is reading this and often wonders about my weird sense of humor? This is it. Bonnyweed is hysterically funny. I think they call it "witty". Whatever it is, I love it. Bonnyweed, thank you.

[wander]

While I have no statistics available at this time, from my recollection on cruise ships the real serious pool dangers (deaths and serious injuries) occur when there is NO WATER in the pool.

[kryos]

[quote name='Seadoc']The kid dumps in the pool - the moronic mommy dutifully does a diaper change and the witness (OP) reports this to HAL (the ever-vigilant source of dress codes, booze protocols, "fine cruising" and similar blather) and - predictably- the crack HAL hierarchy does...........(drum roll)..........NOTHING!
[/QUOTE]
HAL is a mass market line ... one of the better ones ... but still mass market. They have long been associated with the older passenger demographic and it would appear they are trying to broaden their market and appeal to families. Families often including infants and children. Infants and children love the water and yes, mom is not about to deprive her darling from a dip in the pool with his floatie and yes, even maybe his crappy diaper.

Sure, this was reported by the OP, and not surprisingly it was probably ignored (as would seem the case since she said the woman and her baby were back).

Walkie-talkies in the Pinnacle doesn't surprise me. Be glad cell phones aren't yet usable while at sea, or you'd have maybe a dozen conversations going on at any given time ... some utilizing the walkie-talkie features contained in many of those cell phones.

I've only started cruising about a year ago ... so I can't really speak with direct experience on the past of cruising. But, it would seem to me that since the actual cost of cruising has come down so much over the past decade (adjusted for inflationary rates), more and more people are now able to cruise than were in the past. In the "bygone era" only the reasonably affluent person could afford a cruise. The lower middle-class with a slew of kids could never have afforded it. So, those folks went to campgrounds and shore rentals and whatnot, while the more moneyed folks went on the boat. Those moneyed folks had certain expectations of what a cruise should be and how one should behave while on a boat. Thus, you didn't see this sort of thing. In fact, it would never have been tolerated because all the passengers would have been up in arms about things like babies in the pool and people talking on walkie-talkies in the Pinnacle.

But, today, we've got lots of family cruisers. They don't know that these things are generally frowned upon, and what's more ... they question what is wrong with a baby in the pool, kids running around the dining room, or even (horrors!) someone wearing their jeans to the dining room on formal night. Since there are more and more of these "new cruisers" with different ideas, it's understandable that lines like HAL don't know what to make of these so-called "rule violations." If they say something to the passengers (what could be rapidly becoming the majority of passengers) they risk alienating the market segment that they most are trying to appeal to. I really can't say I blame them for their apparent inaction when faced with the OP's complaints.

I hate to say it, but the face of cruising is changing, and as it does, cruiseline policies are bound to change. I would be willing to bet that swim diapers will become accepted and infants will be welcomed in the pools in the not too distant future. Hell, they're enjoying them right now, whether or not their fellow passengers like it.

I see formal night becoming strictly an option to be partaken by those with an affinity for that sort of thing. Those nice jeans will be fine for the dining room ... on any night. In fact, I'd be willing to bet traditional dining will eventually be done away with, or offered only as an option for those passengers who enjoy that sort of thing.

Am I saying that I welcome these changes? No. I just see them as the changing face of cruising ... just like change in all areas of our lives is inevitable.

The only thing I can suggest for those who do not like what cruising is evolving into is to seek out the premium cruiselines. Those lines, because of their higher prices, appeal to the older, more mature passenger. That passenger is more likely to love the traditions associated with cruising ... dressing up for dinner, adults only pools, and a refined dining experience. Sad to say, but the premium lines will be the last place these traditions will survive because the mass market lines more and more will have to appeal to the young, family cruiser, and that cruiser doesn't give a crap what you or I may think is uncouth. In other words, "it's my vacation and I'll damned well enjoy it ... and so will my six-month-old."

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Adk~Cruiser]

[quote name='kryos']The lower middle-class with a slew of kids could never have afforded it. So, those folks went to campgrounds and shore rentals and whatnot, while the more moneyed folks went on the boat. Those moneyed folks had certain expectations of what a cruise should be and how one should behave while on a boat. [/QUOTE]

My mother always said "manners are taught, not bought". It's my opinion that people from many income levels simply do not understand common courtesy and respect as they were not shown it or taught it within their own family. To me it is more a symptom of society as a whole rather than the symptom of any one class or another.

[jhannah]

Adk~Cruiser, I would agree. I've seen some pretty boorish well-heeled people. It seems they are of the opinion that their money entitles them to whatever they want to do and however they want to do it. Not all, of course, but many.

[cactuslady]

Dear me.

This entire thread appears to call for a nice medicinal gin and tonic. Not only will it kill a few germs, it will make that naked old guy look much better. And there's a little quinine thrown in in case of malaria, and some vitamin C in the lime to help ward off the cold I might get from touching the glass it came in.

Maybe I'll have a couple. They'll steady my hands for when I borrow RevNeal's shotgun for a little skeet shooting off the stern.

;)

[xpcdoojk]

Wow this topic has sure wandered around a strange neighborhood! ;)

Heather, they say money is the root of all evil today... well at least that is what Pink Floyd, said. ;)

Common decency would be nice if it were more common. ;)

I sure hope my wife is not around when someone takes me to their bath.;)

jc

[bonnyweed]

Why Heather, thanks for your words of thanks.
The cruise pool aversion is a personal rather than scientifically-based thing for me. I work in public health and have spent years working with foodborne illness, sexually transmitted diseases, tuberculosis, head lice, scabies and other "cooties." I have done that work at homeless shelters, soup kitchens, impoverished homes and, currently, on an Indian reservation. It is work that I love and you can't be squeamish to do it.
That said, ain't no way I'm getting in that cruise ship spa!
Being immersed in pee won't make me sick but it sure isn't high on my list of things to do.....especially on vacation.
So for the folks who keep insisting that it is silly to be concerned about bodily fluids in pools.....I say again....it ain't about germs it's about the repulsion factor. If you're happy in your tiny spa for the masses....come on in, the water's just slime.

[xpcdoojk]

[quote name='cactuslady']Dear me.

This entire thread appears to call for a nice medicinal gin and tonic. Not only will it kill a few germs, it will make that naked old guy look much better. And there's a little quinine thrown in in case of malaria, and some vitamin C in the lime to help ward off the cold I might get from touching the glass it came in.

Maybe I'll have a couple. They'll steady my hands for when I borrow RevNeal's shotgun for a little skeet shooting off the stern.

;)[/QUOTE]

Make mine a Bombay Saphire!:D

jc

[HeatherInFlorida]

Does anyone here have the slightest idea how so many threads always come back around to germs, kids, smuggled booze or old people?

I'm really curious, because it seems that it doesn't really matter what the OP is, it so often comes back to these subjects.

As to money and classes, my Mom always says cruising went downhill when the "bus people" started cruising:D . I can't help it ... that cracks me up because she is just so disgustingly outspoken sometimes (I come by it honestly).

So maybe the money is just falling into the wrong hands. Because the fact is that tons of people with money are just as boorish as those without. So what we all have to figure out is how to get the money into the "right" hands ... i.e., ours;)

Please don't start flaming me for this post ... honest, I'm just having fun.

[jhannah]

Yep, things go downhill when you let "some" people in the mainstream. Just look at what happened once women were allowed to vote!
[size=1][color=sienna](Sorry, I just couldn't resist.) :D [/color][/size]

[jollycruiser]

Interesting that the original author of this thread came in and left a pile of sh** and never returned.

[dakrewser]

[quote name='HeatherInFlorida']Does anyone here have the slightest idea how so many threads always come back around to germs, kids, smuggled booze or old people?[/QUOTE]

You left out dress code, tipping and food service - the "seven deadly topics". Thank the diety that we seem to have finally left meatloaf behind!:rolleyes:

I firmly believe that the only people who should be allowed to do anything are the "common" people - those with common decency, common courtesy and, most importantly, common sense! :cool:

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='jhannah']Yep, things go downhill when you let "some" people in the mainstream. Just look at what happened once women were allowed to vote!
[size=1][color=sienna](Sorry, I just couldn't resist.) :D [/color][/size][/QUOTE]

[size=1][color=sienna]Jiiiiiiiiiiiiiim................! Saying you're sorry doesn't make it nice[/color][/size]:o .

On the other hand .... you could well be right:D . I've never been a feminist in my life and I was around when there was such a thing. What ever happened to feminists anyway? Probably cruising with the "bus people".

Dave ... you are quite right.

[Cuttle]

[quote name='dakrewser']
I firmly believe that the only people who should be allowed to do anything are the "common" people - those with common decency, common courtesy and, most importantly, common sense! :cool:[/QUOTE]

Ditto. I totally agree.

[Cuttle]

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