Carnival cruise lines does NOT own Costa

[SandDragon]

The problem with this thread is that one section of readers already knew this and couldn't work out why the OP was stating the bleeding obvious and the rest who didn't know apparently still don't get it (except for Susie51).

[SandDragon]

Anyone who doesn't understand that carnival corp owns costa is an idiot and needs to go back to school

 

I am not sure they teach this in schools.

[cdamion]

The problem with this thread is that one section of readers already knew this and couldn't work out why the OP was stating the bleeding obvious and the rest who didn't know apparently still don't get it (except for Susie51).

 

Usually a parent corporation would distance itself from the subsidiary so that if there is going to be fallout or a financial disaster, they could simply kill the subsidiary entity. This is the distinction I think people were trying to make - that Costa would be the company on the hook financially, not the parent company. In this case, Carnival Corp and PLC is already talking about the loss. I believe it has also released a statement about the insurance coverage for the ship. Clearly the line is much thinner than 1/2 the people on this thread thought.

[KatetheWanderer]

And if you take the time to read the press release it is from Carnival Coroporation not Carnival cruise line.

 

This is like the Olive Garden and the Red Lobster under the same holding corporation Darden.

If you get food poisoning at the Red Lobster do you want the Olive Garden to make good?

 

Still splitting hairs over Carnival v. Carnival cruise lines? Maybe you should read CARNIVAL CORP's own press release from a couple of days ago to understand why so many posters want to know what it has done for the survivors and victims lately. A corporation's word is its bond. Oh, and do check the stock value this morning.

 

http://travel.usatoday.com/alliance/cruises/expertcruiser/post/2012/01/Carnival-Corporation-issues-statement-regarding-Costa-Concordia/603389/1

 

"This is a terrible tragedy and we are deeply saddened. Carnival Corporation & plc offers our sympathies and heartfelt condolences to all of the Costa Concordia guests, crew members and their families. Carnival Corporation & plc and Costa Cruises are committing our full resources to provide assistance and ensure that all guests and crew are looked after."

[Jumbiecruiser]

And, I for one, do not understand what difference it makes whether the press say Carnival Cruise Lines or Carnival Corporation. Carnival Corporation is the listed company and is trading 20% down this morning in London.

 

And for people that are new to cruising or know nothing about cruising will see Carnival as the bad guy here. It will not matter if the media uses Carnival Corporation in their press releases. The word Carnival is still being used. This is going to be a black eye on Carnival the cruise line simply by word of association.

 

Would be no different for Royal Caribbean if a Celebrity, Pullmantur or Azamara ship went down and the media referred to the owers of the ship as Royal Caribbean Cruises Limited which is the parent company.

[ducklite]

I have been one of the people in various threads stating that Carnival does not own Concordia, but Carnival Corp itself has apparently said it is going to lose $90 million in lost revenue from the ship being out of service. This does not include anything but loss of use of the ship.

 

This is per an article in UK Guardian.

 

BS. They carry business interruption coverage. Their INSURER is going to take that hit, not them. :rolleyes:

[SandDragon]

BS. They carry business interruption coverage. Their INSURER is going to take that hit, not them. :rolleyes:

 

From Carnival Corp's statement: "The company has insurance coverage for damage to the vessel with a deductible of approximately $30 million as well as insurance for third party personal injury liability subject to an additional deductible of approximately $10 million for this incident. The company self-insures for loss of use of the vessel. "

 

If they (Carnival Corp) self insure for loss of use of the vessel does that not mean that they are taking the hit on this aspect of the loss, and not their insurers?

[ducklite]

From Carnival Corp's statement: "The company has insurance coverage for damage to the vessel with a deductible of approximately $30 million as well as insurance for third party personal injury liability subject to an additional deductible of approximately $10 million for this incident. The company self-insures for loss of use of the vessel. "

 

If they (Carnival Corp) self insure for loss of use of the vessel does that not mean that they are taking the hit on this aspect of the loss, and not their insurers?

 

I just saw that and stand corrected. I came back to correct my post, but you beat me to it.

[marielco]

Mickey Arison, the owner of the holding company, should be sending his private jet to shuttle as many passengers home as possible. He owns a Boeing 727.

 

Crew members need to be cared for as well. Many are stranded in Italy a long way from home with nothing. It seems from reports passengers are being helped but many crew, particularly those from outside Europe are stuck with no resources.

[SandDragon]

Usually a parent corporation would distance itself from the subsidiary so that if there is going to be fallout or a financial disaster, they could simply kill the subsidiary entity. This is the distinction I think people were trying to make - that Costa would be the company on the hook financially, not the parent company. In this case, Carnival Corp and PLC is already talking about the loss. I believe it has also released a statement about the insurance coverage for the ship. Clearly the line is much thinner than 1/2 the people on this thread thought.

 

Is Costa a subsidiary or simply (as described on the Carnival Corp website) a brand? I suppose this goes for all the Carnival Corp lines - are they separate legal entities or simply different cost centres/brands/divisions (call it what you will)?

 

If they aren't separate legal entities then Carnival Corp can't walk away from the loss (and their required statement to the NYSE makes more sense).

 

I guess I am now in the group who thought they knew the distinction between Carnival and Costa and now are not so sure.

[Fury1995]

Carnival Corp & plc

 

Well, since hairs are splitting in this thread... I believe Carnival plc based in Southampton, UK operates Costa Cruises Group, not Carnival Corp based in Miami, Florida although it is legally a dual traded company. It is commonly referred to as Carnival plc or "Carnival UK". Costa Cruises Group (Costo Crociere SpA), which is part of Carnival Corp & plc, has executive control and essentially operates Costa Cruises.

 

Further the point, Carnival Cruise-line was the name for Carnival Corp prior to the creation of the parent company"Carnival Corp" to separate the brand from the company, which in retrospect... doesn't really..

 

Costa Cruises Group, acquired by Carnival Corp (US), was essentially transferred to Carnival plc (UK) after the merger with P&O. Costa Cruises Group, operates AIDA Cruises (transferred by Carnival Corp to Costa Group), IberoCruceros and Costa Cruises..

 

So, I guess Costa Cruises Group is in the same situation with "sharing a name" with the cruise-line brand as Carnival Corp & plc does with it's flagship brand and the resulting image issues by ownership/relationship.

[Andipanda1]

And if you take the time to read the press release it is from Carnival Coroporation not Carnival cruise line.

 

This is like the Olive Garden and the Red Lobster under the same holding corporation Darden.

If you get food poisoning at the Red Lobster do you want the Olive Garden to make good?

 

I can understand cruise line loyalty, I suppose, but this is really ridiculous. Who cares? They are under the same corporate umbrella.

[BigGreenFan]

Is Costa a subsidiary or simply (as described on the Carnival Corp website) a brand? I suppose this goes for all the Carnival Corp lines - are they separate legal entities or simply different cost centres/brands/divisions (call it what you will)?

 

If they aren't separate legal entities then Carnival Corp can't walk away from the loss (and their required statement to the NYSE makes more sense).

 

I guess I am now in the group who thought they knew the distinction between Carnival and Costa and now are not so sure.

 

The CCL 10-K filed with the SEC shows that Costa, Holland America Line, HAL Antillen, Princess Bermuda Holding, Princess Cruise Lines and Sunshine Shipping Corporation are the "significant subsidiaries" of CCL.

[rsinj]

The fact is, Carnival Cruise Lines played no role in this tragedy and shouldn't be receiving the flak they are because news media is too lazy to report the difference between the U.S. based subsidiary and the parent corporation.

 

It's easier to just say 'Carnival', isn't it?

 

Ok - so, by your logic, should any of us be in a similar situation on any of the cruise lines (including Carnival Cruise Lines) owned by Carnival Corp, we should not be surprised to see the same lack of action/response by the parent company.

 

Have I properly stated that to agree with your argument?

 

Should that quell any of the negativity toward "Carnival" at this time?

 

Howard

[peterhof]

They are all run as a separate entity,

just like Pepsi own KFC, but it is a separate company.

 

For cases like this it is the CEO of Costa Cruise Line is where the buck stops - however, the Carnival Corporation has overall budget control as they OWN the cruise line. For many years now Carnival Corporation has been cutting back and reducing overall cruise line budgets and a common policy is in place with variances depending on the cruise line status. For instance - Cunard and P&O, together with Princess, are considered as more "up-market" than Costa!!

[cdamion]

Is Costa a subsidiary or simply (as described on the Carnival Corp website) a brand? I suppose this goes for all the Carnival Corp lines - are they separate legal entities or simply different cost centres/brands/divisions (call it what you will)?

 

If they aren't separate legal entities then Carnival Corp can't walk away from the loss (and their required statement to the NYSE makes more sense).

 

I guess I am now in the group who thought they knew the distinction between Carnival and Costa and now are not so sure.

 

They are separate legal entities. Costa's corporate name is Costa Crociere, SPA. Costa controls Carnival's European companies: Costa, AIDA, and Ibero.

 

Carnival Cruise Line looks to manage itself.

 

Other brands' corporate names:

 

Holland America Line, Inc.

 

Princess Cruise Lines, Ltd.

 

Carnival UK operates P&O, P&O Australia, and Cunard

 

This is the simplified version (for example there are at least 3 different corporate entities just for different parts of Holland America)

 

Carnival Corporation is parent to all of them.

[ducklite]

CCL (the parent corp/holding company) carries the insurance per their required statement made today:

 

The company has insurance coverage for damage to the vessel with a deductible of approximately $30 million as well as insurance for third party personal injury liability subject to an additional deductible of approximately $10 million for this incident. The company self-insures for loss of use of the vessel.

 

That makes it abundantly clear that there is a solid financial line between the two companies, because you can't insure something you don't own.

 

The ownership of Carnival Cruise Lines is the same.

 

Bottom line is "Same pants, different pockets."

[peterhof]

What an absolutely stupid thread.

 

Does it really matter if it is Carnival Corp or Carnival Cruise line.

 

Do you think the injured really care who.

 

Ron

PS. This thread has confirmed a theory that I had long held in that IQ can go negative.

 

I beg to differ - this IS an important issue - why?

 

Carnival Corporation were, up to this morning (Monday 16th Jan 2012) in grave danger of being tarred with the same brush as Costa over this. The ensueing court cases and compensation could run into billions, if not trillions of Dollars. Stocks could tumble today on all cruise line shares around the world.

 

The statements issued last night from the CEO of Costa has stopped that by blaming the captain for everything. Therefore Costa Line themselves will probably go under instead of a threat to the Carnival Corporation. As the employer of the captain and officers they are ultimately responsible for his actions. The poor man will live with this for the rest of his life and no doubt spend the best part of it in jail. Costa will minimise the damage to the company during the trial, but this is not like a cruise ship hitting a dock or something similar - it is or a par with the sinking of the Titanic!

 

Some of those people that have booked one of the three cruises that are comemmorating the 100th Anniversary in April of the sinking of the Titanic and are sailing the exact route of the stricken ship, may now be thinking twice!

 

Eighteen months ago a huge iceburg the size of Manhattan broke off of Greenland and is heading down towards the Atlantic!!!!!!!

 

Already, cruise booking agents have received hundreds of cancellations on cruises not associated with Costa. Over 10 million people worldwide book cruises each year and January is the month when most bookings are made. For those that are not scared by this, 2012 will be the cheapest year ever to book a cruise.

[cdamion]

Some of those people that have booked one of the three cruises that are comemmorating the 100th Anniversary in April of the sinking of the Titanic and are sailing the exact route of the stricken ship, may now be thinking twice!

 

Eighteen months ago a huge iceburg the size of Manhattan broke off of Greenland and is heading down towards the Atlantic!!!!!!!

 

Already, cruise booking agents have received hundreds of cancellations on cruises not associated with Costa. Over 10 million people worldwide book cruises each year and January is the month when most bookings are made. For those that are not scared by this, 2012 will be the cheapest year ever to book a cruise.

 

Not that I have any interest whatsoever in the Titanic cruises coming up, but I am not worried about an iceberg size of Manhattan. There's no problem seeing that. It's those small, mostly submerged ones that ships don't see until they are on top of them.

[cubella59]

Tell that to the shreholders who just lost about $3.5B of value or tell that to Micky Arison and family who just $1.5B in personal wealth evaporate.

 

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Costa-Concordia-Crashes-foolcouk-3213563049.html?x=0

 

 

The point was Carnival Cruise Lines has nothing to do with the Costa incident. Carnival Corp, the parent company of both Carnival Cruise Lines and Costa is definitely more involved and will be impacted.

[Jumbiecruiser]

For cases like this it is the CEO of Costa Cruise Line is where the buck stops - however, the Carnival Corporation has overall budget control as they OWN the cruise line. For many years now Carnival Corporation has been cutting back and reducing overall cruise line budgets and a common policy is in place with variances depending on the cruise line status. For instance - Cunard and P&O, together with Princess, are considered as more "up-market" than Costa!!

 

Costa is nothing more than the Carnival Cruise Lines of Europe. They are an entry budget cruise line just like her sister Carnival.

[Jumbiecruiser]

Tell that to the shreholders who just lost about $3.5B of value or tell that to Micky Arison and family who just $1.5B in personal wealth evaporate.

 

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Costa-Concordia-Crashes-foolcouk-3213563049.html?x=0

 

And you can bet that they will find a way to make it up. People cruising on Carnival owned brands will see more cuts across the board than they have ever seen to pay for this mishap.

[compman9]

Mickey Arison, the owner of the holding company, should be sending his private jet to shuttle as many passengers home as possible. He owns a Boeing 727.

 

This

[timsterino]

Because Carnival Cruise lines is NOT Carnival Corporation. If you want to blame Carnival Corporation for not doing more that may be appropriate but blaming a Carnival Cruise line is wrong. Why not blame Pricess or Holland America, they are in the same boat as Carnival Cruise lines, an independent subsidary of Carnival Corporation.

 

You are talking semantics and being completely ridiculous. The corporation, which includies all of its entities are to blame.

[frito58]

It used to aggraivate me when people would Tell me Frito-Lay was owned by Pepsi , which was not true , And I realize this has nothing to do with the Carnival thing . But in the Frito case Frito and Pepsi merged to make Pepsico which is the parent company , I guess much like CCL is the Parent company Carnival is just a brand of that company