The Not So Discretionary Discretionary Service Fees

[smeyer418]

[quote name='bobbyleduck']Please read everything, understand what you're reading, and then think before making such useless remarks. Buy the way: I focused on the topic, which appears to be "Discretionary Service Fees," so telling me that by "Focusing on the tips/daily service charge/hotel charge only shows your cheapness," only shows your inability to follow a topic. From my post at 2:12 p.m., Pacific Standard Time: "I choose to leave the DSC, because I have factored the $12 per day, per person into my costs, but if you choose to remove it, or give more, I will still be just as happy and would not dare to question your decision."

These are tips or service charges, and when I read what is appropriate for tipping in restaurants, or for haircuts or anything else, I haven't noticed that the recommended amount has increased by 71 percent. It's been 15 - 20 percent in restaurants for more than a quarter century. If those had increase by 71 percent then the recommended amount would now be about 26 - 35 percent.

It's amazing that you feel the need to tell me how to think, when I'm trying to show people that I'm okay with them making their own choice. Why do you find it necessary to tell me or anyone else what to do, and to be mean about it at the same time?

Bob[/quote]

you can think anyway you want. But there are gaps...

like saying that the tips in restuarants have stayed the same...possible as a percentage but I don't believe that you are paying the same for the food that you did 20 years ago.

so if the price of the food was 1 dollar 20 years ago and is three dollars today the same 15 % tip would have gone from $.15 cents to 45 cents today...
Your thinking is just off by a whole lot. Edited January 18, 2012 by smeyer418

[smeyer418]

[quote name='smeyer418']you can think anyway you want. But there are gaps...

like saying that the tips in restuarants have stayed the same...possible as a percentage but I don't believe that you are paying the same for the food that you did 20 years ago.

so if the price of the food was 1 dollar 20 years ago and is three dollars today the same 15 % tip would have gone from $.15 cents to 45 cents today...
Your thinking is just off by a whole lot.[/quote]
BTW itsnot up 200% since 1991...its up less

[url]http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet[/url]



Series Id: CUUR0000SAF
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Area: U.S. city average
Item: Food and beverages
Base Period: 1982-84=100


Download:
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
1991 135.9 2011 225.576 Edited January 18, 2012 by smeyer418

[bobbyleduck]

[quote name='smeyer418']you can think anyway you want. But there are gaps...

like saying that the tips in restuarants have stayed the same...possible as a percentage but I don't believe that you are paying the same for the food that you did 20 years ago.

so if the price of the food was 1 dollar 20 years ago and is three dollars today the same 15 % tip would have gone from $.15 cents to 45 cents today...
Your thinking is just off by a whole lot.[/QUOTE]

You win! I don't spend the same amount for food that I did 20 years ago, or for that matter 35 1/2 years ago. When my wife and I married (1976) we spent an average of $200 a month for food (home and away). I teach the people in my budgeting classes that by using coupons and BOGO free restaurant coupons, my wife and I not only don't spend $200 a month, we actually spend about $195 a month. But, that isn't really the topic, is it?

What is the topic is cruises, fares, tips and DSCs, so I'll use our first cruise as an example. It was 1991, and it was a 7-day cruise from Miami to the Caribbean and back. It was your basic Eastern Caribbean itinerary with three ports. It cost $750 (taxes and port charges included) per person for an inside cabin, and recommended tips were $7-a-day per person. Our next cruise aboard a NCL ship is also from Miami, but is an 11-day cruise, with seven stops, and it costs $811 (taxes and port charges included) per person for an inside cabin, and the DSC is $12-a-day per person. That means our current cruise, comparing apples with apples, costs $85.73 per day, compared with $114.15 per day for our cruise 20 years ago. That's nearly $29 per person, per day savings today, compared with more than 20 years ago.

So, while the cost per day, overall, is 25 percent less expensive, the cost for recommend gratuity/DSC is 71 percent more. More important as a separate cost, the DSC now represents 16.3 percent of our daily fare, compared with 6.5 percent of our daily fare in 1991.

What does all of this mean? Absolutely nothing! I am still going to leave the DSC alone, factor it into the cost of my cruise, and not care a whit about what other people do or don't do regarding said DSC.

Bob Edited January 18, 2012 by bobbyleduck

[bobbyleduck]

[quote name='smeyer418']BTW itsnot up 200% since 1991...its up less

[url]http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet[/url]



Series Id: CUUR0000SAF
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Area: U.S. city average
Item: Food and beverages
Base Period: 1982-84=100


Download:
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
1991 135.9 2011 225.576[/QUOTE]

I know that, but then I'm not the person who said anything about 200 percent.

[DMH15]

[quote name='redlef']A person who pays only $300 for a one week cruise which includes hotel, food, round the clock service and entertainment and then complains about having to pay $84 to the people who wait on you for that week --- all I can ask is "Geeze, what do you want?????

$384 works out to $55 a day. You couldn't stay at the worst fleabag hotel, eat McDonalds 3 meals a day and get a pay-per-view movie for that much money. Even if it's a "mass-market" cruiseline, it's not a Winebago at a state park. I don't see anywhere on land you can get a week long vacation like a cruise for $384.[/QUOTE]

I agree $100%!!! Last March I had used my FF miles for my mom and myself to go to LA for her 60th high school reunion. We had planned to stay at the home of one of her friends. Well, unfortunately that friend's daughter died and she just was not up to company. And some of the reunion activites were cancelled due to lack of interest.

What to do? I suggested checking into cruises. Our only option wasa 3-nighter out of Long Beach. I think we paid around $300 for an outside room. Much less than 4 days/3 nights lodging, meals and entertainment would have cost in LA. And if we'd been in LA we'd have had to pay tips at the hotel/restaurants. In fact, we still had a few nights in LA and those two nights were most costly than the 3 at sea. Edited January 19, 2012 by DMH15

[DMH15]

Bob, it's a little like welfare. Those of us who DO pay make up the difference for those who DON'T.

And the price gets adjusted for inflation. I know gas and milk have gone up more than 71%.

[quote name='bobbyleduck']This argument, "Everybody does it this way," is why my Mom always said, "Don't do drugs, and I don't care if everybody else is doing it. You're not stupid, and only stupid people do drugs."

I was raised to think, and question everything. The idea of advertising that your cruise is only $75 a day (example), and then adding on taxes is annoying enough, but saying that and adding another $12 a day in DSC is just telling lies in the advertising. I have a degree in advertising, more than 35 years in the world of business, am a volunteer financial educator, and that is nothing more than lying to the public.

I've been cruising for more than 20 years (7 previous cruises), and I've gone from envelopes to DSCs, plus the daily amount has gone from $7 to $12. No more actual service, but the daily fee is 71 percent higher. Few people spend much time talking about the fact that people in the least expensive cabins pay a higher percentage tax, which is the same for every booking on the ship, and with a set amount for DSCs, pays a higher percentage, relative to the charged fare, for DSCs.

I'm a very intelligent person, financially speaking, and I read everything carefully, but many, many people don't understand these things. They believe someone when they suggest that the cruise fare provides for most everything they will need, and when the advertisement says, "$75 a day," that $75 a day it is.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Tip! Don't Tip! Leave the DSC! Remove the DSC! Do what works for you, because my cruise and my cruise experience isn't going to be dictated by what you do, anymore than it will be dictated by the things said on this board.

I choose to leave the DSC, because I have factored the $12 per day, per person into my costs, but if you choose to remove it, or give more, I will still be just as happy and would not dare to question your decision.

Bob[/QUOTE]

[Mooder]

[quote name='bobbyleduck']This argument, "Everybody does it this way," is why my Mom always said, "Don't do drugs, and I don't care if everybody else is doing it. You're not stupid, and only stupid people do drugs."

I was raised to think, and question everything. The idea of advertising that your cruise is only $75 a day (example), and then adding on taxes is annoying enough, but saying that and adding another $12 a day in DSC is just telling lies in the advertising. I have a degree in advertising, more than 35 years in the world of business, am a volunteer financial educator, and that is nothing more than lying to the public.

I've been cruising for more than 20 years (7 previous cruises), and I've gone from envelopes to DSCs, plus the daily amount has gone from $7 to $12. No more actual service, but the daily fee is 71 percent higher. Few people spend much time talking about the fact that people in the least expensive cabins pay a higher percentage tax, which is the same for every booking on the ship, and with a set amount for DSCs, pays a higher percentage, relative to the charged fare, for DSCs.

I'm a very intelligent person, financially speaking, and I read everything carefully, but many, many people don't understand these things. They believe someone when they suggest that the cruise fare provides for most everything they will need, and when the advertisement says, "$75 a day," that $75 a day it is.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Tip! Don't Tip! Leave the DSC! Remove the DSC! Do what works for you, because my cruise and my cruise experience isn't going to be dictated by what you do, anymore than it will be dictated by the things said on this board.

I choose to leave the DSC, because I have factored the $12 per day, per person into my costs, but if you choose to remove it, or give more, I will still be just as happy and would not dare to question your decision.

Bob[/QUOTE]

I can only speak for myself but I didn't compare what other lines do to say that makes right but in response to comments suggesting that it is reason to go to another line.

As for the price going up with no additional service, that's just silly. In twenty years, the price of everything had gone up. Why shouldn't that include the service charge and crew salaries?

[luddite]

[quote name='plattworx']As soon as I posted this, I found that someone had just posted a similar question and the knives came out.

I am not trying to offend anyone. Yes, this has soured me on NCL before even setting foot on the ship and now I am going to be CERTAIN I get well more than $168 in service from the staff. Enough said.

However, due to the fact that $168 is far more than a reasonable tip for the services I will actually call upon (the cruise was not a free gift from NCL).... additional tipping is now out of the question.

Matter of principle to me. You don't put your hand out for tips before providing service and then make it uncomfortable for guests to ask for it to be removed. Tacky.

No one be mad at me, I am simply asking what seems like a sane question.[/quote]

They aren't tips. It's how the crew gets paid. They will not complain if you do not tip them.

[Sea Monster 2]

My head is spinning with the economics and number-crunching on this thread...:rolleyes:

OP, to get back to your original point, I don't think I knew about the DSC ahead of time, but I also wasn't particularly troubled by it until I discovered CC before my first NCL cruise and people were up in arms about it!! I wondered if I should be crusading against the DSC, too.... But then I remembered spending the last nights of cruises counting leftover cash and cramming it into little envelopes and spending our last hours on the ship trying to get them to the right people... and I was relieved that we wouldn't have to go through that again. We loved not having to deal with that, are going on NCL again less than a year later, thought the service on the ship was very, very good (in fact, the worst service we got was probably from our butler, who we had to tip anyway :eek:, and it wasn't THAT bad...). NCL is different from other cruise lines-- you would have to carry lots of cash around because you have different wait staff everywhere you go if you were to tip in cash. We discovered that we love all the choice and flexibility of NCL, and the DSC complements those aspects of the cruise. I hope you have a great time on your cruise, and hopefully you'll find that the DSC is actually very convenient.

[redlef]

[quote name='bobbyleduck']This argument, "Everybody does it this way," is why my Mom always said, "Don't do drugs, and I don't care if everybody else is doing it. You're not stupid, and only stupid people do drugs . . . . .
Bob[/QUOTE]

Before you go calling me stupid, look at the statement I was replying to. Geeze, some people . . . . .

[bobbyleduck]

[quote name='redlef']Before you go calling me stupid, look at the statement I was replying to. Geeze, some people . . . . .[/QUOTE]

Hmm! I must have missed something. I never said anything about you or anyone being stupid. I quoted my mother, who has never been to this board, and was speaking in about 1967 or 1968, generically, and was trying to make a point to a young Bob that he wasn't stupid, and only stupid people would choose to do drugs.

Back to the topic at hand: Tip! Don't Tip! Leave the DSCs! Remove the DSCs! I don't care what you do. It isn't my place to tell anyone what to do regarding the DSCs. If NCL allows people to remove the DSC, and if people choose to do so, then that is between them and NCL.

Bob

[Fine and Jim Dandy]

Some interesting opinions indeed.

[puddles99]

I thought DSC stood for "Daily Service Charge" and, as I read it, it isn't "Discretionary" at all. I consider it part of the cost of cruising (along with taxes, port fees, fuel surcharges, etc) and choose to pre-pay it, but to each their own! Edited January 23, 2012 by puddles99
because I pre-pay, not pre-pray, but maybe I should start doing both.

[che5904]

[quote name='puddles99']I thought DSC stood for "Daily Service Charge" and, as I read it, it isn't "Discretionary" at all. I consider it part of the cost of cruising (along with taxes, port fees, fuel surcharges, etc) and choose to pre-pay it, but to each their own![/quote]

You are totally correct and I agree almost completely. However, people are getting the word "discretionary" from different places in NCLs own paperwork. Apparently it is somewhere on the U.K. site, it may even be on the U.S. site once booked. It is also in your welcome aboard booklet.

Some have argued that NCL could be using that term meaning that you can dispute the amount at the end of your cruise if the service is bad and could not be resolved. Others choose to view the meaning of the term as voluntary.

[dublell]

[quote name='che5904']You are totally correct and I agree almost completely. However, people are getting the word "discretionary" from different places in NCLs own paperwork. Apparently it is somewhere on the U.K. site, it may even be on the U.S. site once booked. It is also in your welcome aboard booklet.

Some have argued that NCL could be using that term meaning that you can dispute the amount at the end of your cruise if the service is bad and could not be resolved. Others choose to view the meaning of the term as voluntary.[/QUOTE]

Or it could be that the discretionary part is the way they divide it up among crew members as part of their incentive program--you know, everybody gets something but some get more depending on performance. Regardless of what they mean, though, it's obviously confusing and they should eliminate the word and find something that better describes what they're doing. We know that NCL reads these boards and knows that the word causes confusion and in some cases downright animosity. It would be easy for them to let passengers know that the charge is part of the cost of traveling and leave the adjustments for people who really have problems or disputes.

[libertyschool]

This charge is very reasonable. Some lines call it gratuities, some call it a service charge. Whatever you choose to call it, it is meant to compensate the crew, and I feel they deserve every penny of it. That being said, according to the guest ticket contract, from the U.S. site, which I am attacing in a PDF format, this charge is subject to adjustement at YOUR discretion, not theirs.:

Section 3:
(c) Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge , which is automatically added to your onboard account and [B][COLOR=red]subject to adjustment at your discretion[/COLOR],[/B] is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs. Edited January 23, 2012 by libertyschool

[fergusonvt]

I don't have an issue with someone removing it if they get crappy service, try to get it resolved on the ship and can't. I can see adjusting it in those cases. It is the ones who post, I'm cruising with my 5 kids and don't want to pay it because 3 of them are under the age of 10 and how much work can they be? Or, it will take a big chunk out of my excursion budget so I'd rather tip on my own (might as well come out and say I'm not leaving a tip).

The people that do this probably also don't leave tips for the chambermaids at hotels/motels.

[flashdog_1]

[quote name='P&Lcruising'][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Wait til the see the tip on alcoholic beverages:eek:![/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]

or spa services!

If you would have tipped additionally but now will not, consider using the S.T.Y.L.E. cards (one will be in your cAbin more than likely, but you can get them from reception) and write a little note about the exceptional service you received from a particular employee. They get extra privileges with so many good STYLE cards!

[SPLowers]

[quote name='plattworx'][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]While I have found similar threads, they seem to be from foreign travelers, so I guess I’ll start a new conversation. I have taken two cruises before (Royal Caribbean and Disney) but the last was 8 years ago, clearly things have changed.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]We booked a 7 day cruise on the Gem from in late Winter of this year several weeks ago. Thought we got a really good price for a balcony room. Never traveled on NCL before but when our welcome kit came I was somewhat floored to see they were going to take the liberty of charging us $12 or so a day per person for “prepaid service fees”. According to their web site, I can prepay them now (they would love that) for $168 for my party of two. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Huh?[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]When was the last time you walked into a restaurant and gave the host a tip in advance for a server you had yet to meet or experience how well they did their job? Maybe this is now common, but Disney and RC never did this when I traveled with them. I tipped as I chose as the voyage went on... and I tipped well when called for.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]We are not cheap and tip very well when we elect to tip for good service. I am sorry, but NCL simply deciding the service I am going to receive is going to make me want to tip $168 total during my trip and if I don’t prepay they are just going to add that daily to my room fee REALLY feels rude to me. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]I know how cruise ship personnel are paid (or not). I know how they need tips. I get it. However, we are really easy guests. I probably will never use room service (I don’t care for eating in my room/cabin), I rarely call for additional pillows or special cabin service unless something is wrong and we’re probably going to hit the buffet for many of our meals. I’ll be lucky if I pass by the main dining room. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]So, in our case, I am being asked to pay $168 in service fees so someone can make up our cabin each day and maybe something for one sit down restaurant when I tire of the buffet. Never have I left what works out to a $20 a day tip to a housekeeper at a hotel. That is essentially what NCL is telling me they expect based on the services I know I will require from the crew.. very little. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]This policy actually makes me want to tip less. I know it says “discretionary” but “prepay now or we’ll ad it to your bill unless you come have an awkward conversation with us on board and ask us to remove or reduce it” is not the definition of discretionary. It's call "a mugging" or jacking up the cruise fee.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]“Discretionary” is “Yes, please make it easy for me by tipping for me” or “No, leave my bill the way it is, I’ll tip when I feel one is deserved.” [/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Again, those who give me great service will be well taken care of. How do you get NCL to NOT do this and leave tipping up the guest? Really annoyed by this one. I know there is a tip pool... but that means the excellent employee I tip is going to have to share their tip with people who I never even received service from. Not any better.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Were you able to have the service charge removed? We just booked our holiday cruise for next month. Our agency didn't tell us about this service charge. The wife noted it in the paperwork we were emailed after paying. This is the page that comes up in google and looks like we can have it removed. There are 4 of us and we did not budget so much for gratuities. Thank you.

[LrgPizza]

[quote name='SPLowers']Were you able to have the service charge removed? We just booked our holiday cruise for next month. Our agency didn't tell us about this service charge. The wife noted it in the paperwork we were emailed after paying. This is the page that comes up in google and looks like we can have it removed. There are 4 of us and we did not budget so much for gratuities. Thank you.[/quote]
You just quoted and bumped a post from 3 1/2 years ago.

[RuthlessBoss]

[quote name='SPLowers']Were you able to have the service charge removed? We just booked our holiday cruise for next month. Our agency didn't tell us about this service charge. The wife noted it in the paperwork we were emailed after paying. This is the page that comes up in google and looks like we can have it removed. There are 4 of us and we did not budget so much for gratuities. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Gratuities are not anything new. Have you cruised before? I wonder if you'll answer, I see it's post #1.

[rogue 35]

Cruise Critic, Reanimating Zombie Threads since 2012.

[swilliams1660]

[quote name='SPLowers']Were you able to have the service charge removed? We just booked our holiday cruise for next month. Our agency didn't tell us about this service charge. The wife noted it in the paperwork we were emailed after paying. This is the page that comes up in google and looks like we can have it removed. There are 4 of us and we did not budget so much for gratuities. Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Thank-you for resurrecting a 3 yr old thread about the daily service charge. We never seen one about this before.:)

[SPLowers]

[quote name='LrgPizza']You just quoted and bumped a post from 3 1/2 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, found this page on google which is comparable to what I experienced. This is our first cruise as we normally go to Spain on our holiday. Based on what I'm reading now is this may turn out to be a very expensive holiday. My agency stated it was all inclusive except for the alcohol and premier dining.

[SPLowers]

[quote name='swilliams1660']Thank-you for resurrecting a 3 yr old thread about the daily service charge. We never seen one about this before.:)[/QUOTE]

Again I am sorry. I have not seen this before, so was hoping someone with a bit of experience could help. I'll unsubscribe so you won't have to see it again.