The Not So Discretionary Discretionary Service Fees

[SilentHill]

As soon as I posted this, I found that someone had just posted a similar question and the knives came out.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone. Yes, this has soured me on NCL before even setting foot on the ship and now I am going to be CERTAIN I get well more than $168 in service from the staff. Enough said.

 

However, due to the fact that $168 is far more than a reasonable tip for the services I will actually call upon (the cruise was not a free gift from NCL).... additional tipping is now out of the question.

 

Matter of principle to me. You don't put your hand out for tips before providing service and then make it uncomfortable for guests to ask for it to be removed. Tacky.

 

No one be mad at me, I am simply asking what seems like a sane question.

 

Would you be happier if they added it to your bill the last day of the cruise so you felt like it was for the service after it was provided?

[Mooder]

For frequent cruisers and super frequent posters, you all don’t cut new cruisers much slack. I have no problem with the DSC and pay it without question, but I know it is there and plan accordingly. My issue is how it is not stated clearly. One posted stated that it is found on every ad and brochure. I do not receive anything printed from NCL but checked the email advertisements I received from NCL and the ads found on the NCL home page and nothing is stated about the DSC.

I cannot fault a new cruiser for not doing adequate research if that means having to read down to items 23 and 24 on the FAQ page to find a charge that is required to be paid before cruising. To read through the online ads, go though the complete booking process and not be informed about a charge and be surprised after booking is still wrong whether or not they have read all the FAQs or the daily CC posts on the subject.

 

I actually cut the newbies lots of slack. I remember that feeling of knowing nothing about cruising quite well. And I am not known for reading the fine print. :o What I don't understand is booking ANY type of vacation that involves restaurants and overnight stays and not budgeting for some sort of additional expenditure, whether it is a tip or a service charge.

[LadyShiva]

For frequent cruisers and super frequent posters, you all don’t cut new cruisers much slack. I have no problem with the DSC and pay it without question, but I know it is there and plan accordingly. My issue is how it is not stated clearly. One posted stated that it is found on every ad and brochure. I do not receive anything printed from NCL but checked the email advertisements I received from NCL and the ads found on the NCL home page and nothing is stated about the DSC.

I cannot fault a new cruiser for not doing adequate research if that means having to read down to items 23 and 24 on the FAQ page to find a charge that is required to be paid before cruising. To read through the online ads, go though the complete booking process and not be informed about a charge and be surprised after booking is still wrong whether or not they have read all the FAQs or the daily CC posts on the subject.

 

And yet the complaints about having to pay the DSC are still posted ON Cruise Critic on a daily basis, from people with low post counts. It's amazing that they can register here to fuss about having to pay a Daily Service Charge on their third cruise, and not see how off that argument is.

 

If the OP was a true newbie, I would still have to wonder if they only ate in the buffet every day and night. It seems like the same blinders were used in absorbing information provided. The OP has cruised before, and has stated he handed out tips before. Why is it so outrageous, given the freestyle cruising experience of eating whenever and wherever you care to, to give "the tips" to a pool for all wait service personnel? This is a practice now on multiple lines (MyTime or AnyTime dining, for example) to give flexibility to the cruiser. Nothing keeps the OP from adding additional money to those people he chooses to tip explicitly.

 

Re: the prepaid DSC--it has been reported that cruisers from outside the US have to prepay their DSC. I'm from the US, so I can't confirm that.

[molole]

The op brings up another point here. One response was, "don't like it, cruise elsewhere." If you read the op, they did not learn about this DSC, that is required to be placed on your account up front, till after booking. A lot of people make assumptions that everyone knows and should budget. The DSC is not obvious on the website and in my latest booking by email with a PCC was never mentioned.

 

I agree with this point. I booked my first cruise last minute with a TA and didn't find out there was a service charge until the end of the cruise. In the MDR I noticed nobody else was leaving tips so I naively assumed it was all covered by the cruise fare. Then on the last day we received the bill and I was surprised but didn't dispute because I just assumed that was the way it was done. I came back and discovered CC and realized that's indeed the norm.

 

Of course people will say it's all because I was new and had no time to do research. Which was very true. I was clueless. :p But, I think if a service charge is more or less expected unless something goes wrong, it should require no research on the cruiser's part. It should be as clear and obvious as the cruise fare. And not just by NCL, but all cruise lines, and their TA's.

 

 

I don't like the how the service charges are presented to consumers as discretionary tips when in fact NCL is using us to subsidize wages.

 

I see where you are coming from. But I think it's really a non issue. Whether NCL pays them directly or require guests to leave tips it is all eventually coming from guests. We don't pay more or less either way.

[Colleen]

In the last 10 years I have been on 15 cruises, and the one thing that has occurred on all the cruise lines I sailed, was the addition of the Service Fee to the on-board account. Generally, we've had no problem with it, but there was one occasion where a tip was being added for a matri'd who we never met, never saw, etc. Our waiter and assistant worked their tushes off, so we adjusted the tips to have them go to those two. The staff at Guest Services never asked why, just smiled, and completed the request.

[NMLady]

While I have found similar threads, they seem to be from foreign travelers, so I guess I’ll start a new conversation. I have taken two cruises before (Royal Caribbean and Disney) but the last was 8 years ago, clearly things have changed.

 

We booked a 7 day cruise on the Gem from in late Winter of this year several weeks ago. Thought we got a really good price for a balcony room. Never traveled on NCL before but when our welcome kit came I was somewhat floored to see they were going to take the liberty of charging us $12 or so a day per person for “prepaid service fees”. ....

 

When you cruised on Royal Caribbean I imagine you were given envelopes at the end of the cruise and told a 'suggested' amount to put in each envelope for various people like your cabin steward, head waiter, asst waiter etc. That was my experience on RCI when we cruised her in 1999 and again in 2004.

 

It's possible that RCI still uses those envelopes but most cruise lines have gotten away from the envelopes and instead charge a Daily Service Charge in the same way that so many resorts charge a daily resort fee.

If you cruise on HAL, Carnival, Celebrity you'll find daily fees there too.

Since some of the money goes to those behind scenes, it is impossible for you to tip everyone who serves you (for example, folks in the laundry who do your sheets).

 

When we cruised b2b2b on NCL in 2010 we prepaid $792 in Daily Service Charges for the two of us for the 33 days we'd be aboard. Yes, it's a large amount but if we were doing a land vacation of that length we would have had to pay even more in 'resort fees' or 'hotel fees' for services we didn't even use. On NCL the Daily Service Charge was worth it for the wonderful

service we received from our cabin stewards, from the host/hostess in the dining rooms, from the waiters in not only the MDR but also the buffet and the specialty restaurants, and from every other crew member we came in contact with.

 

I was happy not to have to have cash with me for those 'envelopes' that we'd had on RCI.

Edited January 18, 2012 by NMLady

[Host Star]

on RCI you can now charge the tips on your sign and sail account.. the nite before the cruise ends they deliver the envelopes.. and if you have charged the tips they leave vouchers with the envelopes for you to put inside.. you can add additional monies if you so desire.. but the vouchers are charged at their recommended amounts which equal around 11 or 11:50 pp per day..makes life easier than to have the exact amount of cash to put in each envelope

Edited January 18, 2012 by Host Star

[redlef]

.... So if you paid $300 per person for the cruise, your "gratuity tax" is 24% of your cruise. If you go the suites and pay $4000 per person, you pay the same $12 per day DSC, and your "gratuity tax" is only 2% of your cruise cost. ......

 

A person who pays only $300 for a one week cruise which includes hotel, food, round the clock service and entertainment and then complains about having to pay $84 to the people who wait on you for that week --- all I can ask is "Geeze, what do you want?????

 

$384 works out to $55 a day. You couldn't stay at the worst fleabag hotel, eat McDonalds 3 meals a day and get a pay-per-view movie for that much money. Even if it's a "mass-market" cruiseline, it's not a Winebago at a state park. I don't see anywhere on land you can get a week long vacation like a cruise for $384.

[RichNY]

There is no reason why NCL can't include the discretionary service charge on the booking portion of they website..They show all the port charges taxes and even the possibility of a fuel surcharge....so just show the DSC and make it easy..There is no reason to have to dig for that information especially since it is a surcharge.

If you check your booked cruise account all the DSC information is there including the exact amount if you are inclined to pre pay and the word discretionary appears a few times....:rolleyes: so why not make it a available for those shopping/booking a cruise..

[Mooder]

There is no reason why NCL can't include the discretionary service charge on the booking portion of they website..They show all the port charges taxes and even the possibility of a fuel surcharge....so just show the DSC and make it easy..There is no reason to have to dig for that information especially since it is a surcharge.

If you check your booked cruise account all the DSC information is there including the exact amount if you are inclined to pre pay and the word discretionary appears a few times....:rolleyes: so why not make it a available for those shopping/booking a cruise..

 

As for "those booking a cruise," when you book online, it is right on top of the screen before you enter your payment information. You literally could not miss it. They give you the opportunity to pay it in advance, if desired, and explain what it is.

 

Pay for Cruise

 

Additional Options

Pre-Pay Your Service Charge Why is there a service charge

 

The convenience of pre-paying service charges allows you to plan your budget prior to your cruise giving you additional freedom while on board. A discretionary charge of $12 per person per day for all guests 3 years or older will automatically be added to your onboard account. Your service charges will total $288.00, for all guests, for your entire cruise.

Please review your cruise summary. If everything looks correct, proceed to payment. You may select to pay a deposit or pay in full. If you have a Discount Certificate, please contact us at 1.866.234.7351 so we can apply it to your reservation.

 

If you wish to make a change, please use your browser's back button to return to the appropriate step.

[sparks1093]

There is no reason why NCL can't include the discretionary service charge on the booking portion of they website..They show all the port charges taxes and even the possibility of a fuel surcharge....so just show the DSC and make it easy..There is no reason to have to dig for that information especially since it is a surcharge.

 

If you check your booked cruise account all the DSC information is there including the exact amount if you are inclined to pre pay and the word discretionary appears a few times....:rolleyes: so why not make it a available for those shopping/booking a cruise..

 

Sure there is, competition. None of the other mainstream lines show their prices this way.

[RichNY]

As for "those booking a cruise," when you book online, it is right on top of the screen before you enter your payment information. You literally could not miss it. They give you the opportunity to pay it in advance, if desired, and explain what it is.

 

Pay for Cruise

 

Additional Options

Pre-Pay Your Service Charge Why is there a service charge

 

The convenience of pre-paying service charges allows you to plan your budget prior to your cruise giving you additional freedom while on board. A discretionary charge of $12 per person per day for all guests 3 years or older will automatically be added to your onboard account. Your service charges will total $288.00, for all guests, for your entire cruise.

Please review your cruise summary. If everything looks correct, proceed to payment. You may select to pay a deposit or pay in full. If you have a Discount Certificate, please contact us at 1.866.234.7351 so we can apply it to your reservation.

 

If you wish to make a change, please use your browser's back button to return to the appropriate step.

 

I understand that but its sure a long way to go to find out how much your cruise will actually cost..

[Mooder]

Sure there is, competition. None of the other mainstream lines show their prices this way.

 

Yup. Just for giggles I just did a pretend booking on Carnival's site. The charges were disclosed at the exact same time, just prior to payment.

 

But at the risk of sounding like a broken record, even without notice, as I pretend booked my first cruise, I knew in my mind that there would be some sort of tipping and additional charges along the way. Afterall, someone would be serving me and cleaning up after me. ;)

[redlef]

I understand that but its sure a long way to go to find out how much your cruise will actually cost..

 

That may be true, but did you ever buy a car?

[fergusonvt]

I agree with this point. I booked my first cruise last minute with a TA and didn't find out there was a service charge until the end of the cruise. In the MDR I noticed nobody else was leaving tips so I naively assumed it was all covered by the cruise fare. Then on the last day we received the bill and I was surprised but didn't dispute because I just assumed that was the way it was done. I came back and discovered CC and realized that's indeed the norm.

 

Of course people will say it's all because I was new and had no time to do research. Which was very true. I was clueless. :p But, I think if a service charge is more or less expected unless something goes wrong, it should require no research on the cruiser's part. It should be as clear and obvious as the cruise fare. And not just by NCL, but all cruise lines, and their TA's.

 

 

 

 

I see where you are coming from. But I think it's really a non issue. Whether NCL pays them directly or require guests to leave tips it is all eventually coming from guests. We don't pay more or less either way.

 

It states this service charge on your cruise docs that you had to print and bring with you. I believe that even when you book through a TA you still are required to bring these. I think you would have had a hard time disputing them had you tried. I agree, the tips should be paid regardless of when and how. I still think that some that are so terribly put off by the DSC are some that would probably not tip and that is why they argue so loudly. I do agree that NCL should have something sooner in the booking process that explains about the DSC because not everyone's PCC or TA will be as forthcoming with the info as mine was.

[sparks1093]

There is no reason why NCL can't include the discretionary service charge on the booking portion of they website..They show all the port charges taxes and even the possibility of a fuel surcharge....so just show the DSC and make it easy..There is no reason to have to dig for that information especially since it is a surcharge.

 

If you check your booked cruise account all the DSC information is there including the exact amount if you are inclined to pre pay and the word discretionary appears a few times....:rolleyes: so why not make it a available for those shopping/booking a cruise..

 

Oh, and another reason they are disclosed earlier than the payment page is because they aren't charged until you are onboard, so the only reason they are disclosed on the payment page is to give you the opportunity to pay them in advance.

 

That may be true, but did you ever buy a car?

 

Or a house;).

[NMLady]

Up until we sailed NCL we had the option of putting cash in envelopes at the end of the trip, totaling something similar to the $12. I always found this a hassle and often included more than the recommended because I didn't have smaller bills. Then you go through the hassle of handing these envelopes out! I was always amazed how many people didn't hand in an envelope for their waiter and assistant!

...

 

Our first cruise was on Royal Caribbean in 1999, long before I was a member of Cruise Critic. No one told us ahead of time that we would be expected to have cash for tips at the end of the cruise. We got four envelopes and a card stating the 'suggested' amount for each envelope.

There was one for the cabin steward, one for head waiter, one for assistant waiter, and one for maitre d'. It ended up averaging about $10.50 per day for each of us. Luckily the cruise had only been 4 days so we had enough cash.

I would have appreciated knowing ahead of time that there was an expected 'discretionary charge' at the end of the cruise. And you're right it was a hassle to put the right amount in each envelope and then hand them out. It was ridiculous imo to see the waiters all standing around after dinner, expecting their envelope.

It was interesting to see the number of cruisers who did not show up for dinner, probably to avoid the envelope system, and probably avoiding the tips altogether.

I much prefer the current method that most of the cruise lines use, which is to bill that charge to your onboard account and let you know before you board the ship.

[bobbyleduck]

That may be true, but did you ever buy a car?

 

This argument, "Everybody does it this way," is why my Mom always said, "Don't do drugs, and I don't care if everybody else is doing it. You're not stupid, and only stupid people do drugs."

 

I was raised to think, and question everything. The idea of advertising that your cruise is only $75 a day (example), and then adding on taxes is annoying enough, but saying that and adding another $12 a day in DSC is just telling lies in the advertising. I have a degree in advertising, more than 35 years in the world of business, am a volunteer financial educator, and that is nothing more than lying to the public.

 

I've been cruising for more than 20 years (7 previous cruises), and I've gone from envelopes to DSCs, plus the daily amount has gone from $7 to $12. No more actual service, but the daily fee is 71 percent higher. Few people spend much time talking about the fact that people in the least expensive cabins pay a higher percentage tax, which is the same for every booking on the ship, and with a set amount for DSCs, pays a higher percentage, relative to the charged fare, for DSCs.

 

I'm a very intelligent person, financially speaking, and I read everything carefully, but many, many people don't understand these things. They believe someone when they suggest that the cruise fare provides for most everything they will need, and when the advertisement says, "$75 a day," that $75 a day it is.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Tip! Don't Tip! Leave the DSC! Remove the DSC! Do what works for you, because my cruise and my cruise experience isn't going to be dictated by what you do, anymore than it will be dictated by the things said on this board.

 

I choose to leave the DSC, because I have factored the $12 per day, per person into my costs, but if you choose to remove it, or give more, I will still be just as happy and would not dare to question your decision.

 

Bob

[sjbdtz]

I'm a very intelligent person, financially speaking, [snip]

 

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Tip! Don't Tip! Leave the DSC! Remove the DSC! Do what works for you, because my cruise and my cruise experience isn't going to be dictated by what you do,

Bob

 

 

But Bob you've missed the point. Your cruise experience IS going to be directly affected.

 

Without meaning to cast aspersions, there's often a calibre difference between salespeople who are commission only, and those who merit base + commission. That investment of base pay tends to provide some income stability and is a useful tool in recruiting top talent.

 

Likewise, the DSC provides income stability for the crew, and assists the cruiseline in recruiting and retaining top-calibre applicants.

 

 

If the DSC gets removed by all who just don't feel like paying it, then the crew's incomes will be affected and the really talented ones WILL leave.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

If that happens, you'll wind-up with less and that will impact your cruise experience.

 

 

 

And for those whose primary complaint is that the amount isn't included in the fare....it just isn't. The amount is the same, but some of it (the DSC) you get to pay AFTER the cruise, not before. That's to your advantage.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited January 18, 2012 by sjbdtz

[bobbyleduck]

Or a house;).

 

I really don't care for this argument. Not one little bit. When I buy a car or a house, I negotiate the price. I'm not stuck paying the asking price. If the seller won't negotiate, I walk away. I used to be able to do this with cruises, for discounts, on board credits, gifts, or even the occasional paid DSCs, but the cruise lines are all telling the resellers exactly what they can do, so there is no negotiating. I checked out 10, count them, 10 different agencies, when looking into my next cruise, and the price was the same with every seller. It didn't matter whether talking with a full-service agency, NCL, or a mega-agency. Oh, the price varied from day to day, at the whim of NCL, but when the price changed at one place, it changed at all of them. This is something that all of the cruise lines are doing, so I'm not suggesting that NCL is the one and only one doing it.

 

When I bought my house, 18 years ago, the asking price was $87,000. I did some research, offered $75,000, and that was what I paid. I didn't need a loan, so there was no cost, to me, for anything else.

 

Regarding negotiating for houses, that is very important today. The asking price very well may be tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars higher than what you'll end up paying because negotiating is allowed.

 

Bob

[smeyer418]

[quote name='bobbyleduck']This argument, "Everybody does it this way," is why my Mom always said, "Don't do drugs, and I don't care if everybody else is doing it. You're not stupid, and only stupid people do drugs."

I was raised to think, and question everything. The idea of advertising that your cruise is only $75 a day (example), and then adding on taxes is annoying enough, but saying that and adding another $12 a day in DSC is just telling lies in the advertising. I have a degree in advertising, more than 35 years in the world of business, am a volunteer financial educator, and that is nothing more than lying to the public.

I've been cruising for more than 20 years (7 previous cruises), and I've gone from envelopes to DSCs, plus the daily amount has gone from $7 to $12. No more actual service, but the daily fee is 71 percent higher. Few people spend much time talking about the fact that people in the least expensive cabins pay a higher percentage tax, which is the same for every booking on the ship, and with a set amount for DSCs, pays a higher percentage, relative to the charged fare, for DSCs.

I'm a very intelligent person, financially speaking, and I read everything carefully, but many, many people don't understand these things. They believe someone when they suggest that the cruise fare provides for most everything they will need, and when the advertisement says, "$75 a day," that $75 a day it is.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Tip! Don't Tip! Leave the DSC! Remove the DSC! Do what works for you, because my cruise and my cruise experience isn't going to be dictated by what you do, anymore than it will be dictated by the things said on this board.

I choose to leave the DSC, because I have factored the $12 per day, per person into my costs, but if you choose to remove it, or give more, I will still be just as happy and would not dare to question your decision.

Bob[/quote]


20 years and its only gone up 71% when everything else increased by over 200%?

and fares have changed as well. They now include port charges in the fare which they didn't do 20 years ago...and the taxes are relatively small. Its only the TA's that break this up differently. The cruise lines show it differently as well.

Cruising is a relative bargain in most cases. Focusing on the tips/daily service charge/hotel charge only shows your cheapness...

[smeyer418]

[quote name='bobbyleduck']I really don't care for this argument. Not one little bit. When I buy a car or a house, I negotiate the price. I'm not stuck paying the asking price. If the seller won't negotiate, I walk away. I used to be able to do this with cruises, for discounts, on board credits, gifts, or even the occasional paid DSCs, but the cruise lines are all telling the resellers exactly what they can do, so there is no negotiating. I checked out 10, count them, 10 different agencies, when looking into my next cruise, and the price was the same with every seller. It didn't matter whether talking with a full-service agency, NCL, or a mega-agency. Oh, the price varied from day to day, at the whim of NCL, but when the price changed at one place, it changed at all of them. This is something that all of the cruise lines are doing, so I'm not suggesting that NCL is the one and only one doing it.

When I bought my house, 18 years ago, the asking price was $87,000. I did some research, offered $75,000, and that was what I paid. I didn't need a loan, so there was no cost, to me, for anything else.

Regarding negotiating for houses, that is very important today. The asking price very well may be tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars higher than what you'll end up paying because negotiating is allowed.

Bob[/quote]

first you aren't buying a car but when you do, you have to pay sales taxes, pay for a registration and in most states get insurance as well. Those aren't included in the price. Most new car dealers also add transportation costs and dealers prep so that your agreed upon price adds a lot of things. You have to buy gas too and then get the oil charged at some points so the total price is different.

Yes the cruise lines no longer allow their TA s to negotiate prices. but the service on the ship was always extra...20 years ago and now.

There are a small number of people who didn't tip at all(more now than 20 years ago)...that is why the DSC has come into play. consider it your registration charge....

BTW when you bought your house and went to the closing there were no extra costs(closing costs transfer fees title insurance mortgage taxes recording fees, prepaid taxes to name but a few) Edited January 18, 2012 by smeyer418

[bobbyleduck]

[quote name='sjbdtz']But Bob you've missed the point. Your cruise experience IS going to be directly affected.

Without meaning to cast aspersions, there's often a calibre difference between salespeople who are commission only, and those who merit base + commission. That investment of base pay tends to provide some income stability and is a useful tool in recruiting top talent.

Likewise, the DSC provides income stability for the crew, and assists the cruiseline in recruiting and retaining top-calibre applicants.

If the DSC gets removed by all who just don't feel like paying it, then the crew's incomes will be affected and the really talented ones WILL leave.

Simple as that.

If that happens, you'll wind-up with less and that will impact your cruise experience.

And for those whose primary complaint is that the amount isn't included in the fare....it just isn't. The amount is the same, but some of it (the DSC) you get to pay AFTER the cruise, not before. That's to your advantage.
.[/QUOTE]

No it won't. It wasn't 20+ years ago when I walked into the dining room on the last night and saw that it was only half filled, because some people didn't want to hand out tip envelopes, and it won't be affected by someone making a decision for themselves to remove the DSC. What I do, by leaving the DSC intact is my decision, and I won't use this board or any other to tell people that they must do as I do.

The people who get tipped (or are rewarded with the DSC) earn a very generous income. An income that isn't taxed, and based upon the responses on these boards won't be hurt by someone removing the DSC, because there appears to be plenty of people whose mission in life is to give more than double the amount recommended or taken or whatever.

If the cruise lines are interested in maintaining a great staff, so that we the buying public will keep buying their product, why don't they pay their staff accordingly, charge (without deception) the proper fee and call it a day?

Bob

[04cruises]

Since nobody has ever produce a contract for employees,why do we debate this all the time?When we booked NCL,we added the DSC as part of the fare.Since they never say it is in lieu of tips,I would assume that they do what they want with it.It is done that way for one reason and that is to entice you with a lower fare and then charge it later after you have booked. Just a advertising ploy, no more.

[bobbyleduck]

[quote name='smeyer418']20 years and its only gone up 71% when everything else increased by over 200%?

and fares have changed as well. They now include port charges in the fare which they didn't do 20 years ago...and the taxes are relatively small. Its only the TA's that break this up differently. The cruise lines show it differently as well.

Cruising is a relative bargain in most cases. Focusing on the tips/daily service charge/hotel charge only shows your cheapness...[/QUOTE]

Please read everything, understand what you're reading, and then think before making such useless remarks. Buy the way: I focused on the topic, which appears to be "Discretionary Service Fees," so telling me that by "Focusing on the tips/daily service charge/hotel charge only shows your cheapness," only shows your inability to follow a topic. From my post at 2:12 p.m., Pacific Standard Time: "I choose to leave the DSC, because I have factored the $12 per day, per person into my costs, but if you choose to remove it, or give more, I will still be just as happy and would not dare to question your decision."

These are tips or service charges, and when I read what is appropriate for tipping in restaurants, or for haircuts or anything else, I haven't noticed that the recommended amount has increased by 71 percent. It's been 15 - 20 percent in restaurants for more than a quarter century. If those had increase by 71 percent then the recommended amount would now be about 26 - 35 percent.

It's amazing that you feel the need to tell me how to think, when I'm trying to show people that I'm okay with them making their own choice. Why do you find it necessary to tell me or anyone else what to do, and to be mean about it at the same time?

Bob