The Not So Discretionary Discretionary Service Fees

[sparks1093]

The problem with this theory is that the services covered by the DSC are the same regardless of cabin level. The additional services received by suite passengers are tipped separately by tipping the butlers and concierge who are not covered by the DSC.

 

You saved me from typing again Mooder!

 

but it aggravates me no end to see the giant line of people the last night getting the DSC removed.

 

It is their vacation they are wasting;).

[ttnc4me]

To quote Leona Helmsley, "Only the little people pay taxes"...So this DCS is a flat fee charged the same to everyone, regardless of what you paid for the cruise. So if you paid $300 per person for the cruise, your "gratuity tax" is 24% of your cruise. If you go the suites and pay $4000 per person, you pay the same $12 per day DSC, and your "gratuity tax" is only 2% of your cruise cost. Seems to me this is not really fair, but I guess that's the way it is. In fairness, it should be a % of your cruise cost. The total " gratuity tax" (DSC) should be a percentage of your cruise (and most likely, service level) and not a flat tax. Then more services would justify more gratuity. If they bake that into their total fare and use the same "formula" for distribution of the funds, good service would still be rewarded and be more equitable based on services rendered. Just food for thought. :cool:

 

:)100%

 

For our family, the DSC is 22% of our cruise fare! 22% is a lot when it's not anticipated & has yet to be seen whether service is that far above & beyond the expected.

All this talk about subsidizing the staff.....someone is mismanaging money at the corporate level (ie: being greedy) if the fares aren't adequate to cover decent salaries.

[ttnc4me]

The problem with this theory is that the services covered by the DSC are the same regardless of cabin level. The additional services received by suite passengers are tipped separately by tipping the butlers and concierge who are not covered by the DSC.

 

Difference being that it's probably a drop in the bucket for someone paying $4000 for a suite and seen as no big deal whatsoever, as opposed to someone paying $500 for an inside cabin.

[Deadahead Neil]

The problem with this theory is that the services covered by the DSC are the same regardless of cabin level. The additional services received by suite passengers are tipped separately by tipping the butlers and concierge who are not covered by the DSC.

 

Ok..so to make the "theory "correct", replace suites with "balcony outside cabin" and reduce the fare to $1,800 and you still have a HUGE disparity between what the lower priced fare pays as a percentage of the fare for the same level of services. It is still significant for the person paying a $300 fare for an inside cabin to be "asked" to pay a 24% gratuity fee that is not advertised. Just tell people that the lowest fare is actually 24% higher. Again...just like a flat tax, regardless of service level.

Not a "theory" ... Reality ...what a concept!

[peg013]

Ok..so to make the "theory "correct", replace suites with "balcony outside cabin" and reduce the fare to $1,800 and you still have a HUGE disparity between what the lower priced fare pays as a percentage of the fare for the same level of services. It is still significant for the person paying a $300 fare for an inside cabin to be "asked" to pay a 24% gratuity fee that is not advertised. Just tell people that the lowest fare is actually 24% higher. Again...just like a flat tax, regardless of service level.

Not a "theory" ... Reality ...what a concept!

 

What you don't seem to understand is that the DSC is for the room stewards, the cooks, the bottle washers, the laundry, the waiters etc....all of which provide the same SERVICE to everyone regardless of cabin. All cabins have sheets, towels, towel animals, bathrooms to be cleaned etc. Everyone eats their meals in the same MDR's, buffet etc and uses food, plates, glasses, utensils, etc. Cabin price has nothing to do with this charge. This is NOT a tip - it is a SERVICE CHARGE. Suite people (hopefully) tip the butlers and concierge separate from the DSC. That is where they pay their extra. It's really not that hard to understand.:rolleyes:

[peg013]

Difference being that it's probably a drop in the bucket for someone paying $4000 for a suite and seen as no big deal whatsoever, as opposed to someone paying $500 for an inside cabin.

 

That is a really big assumption on your part that I know not to always be true.....at least it's not in mine. I have to save for the DSC and the tips for the butler and concierge in addition to the $3400.00 for my suite. It is not "no big deal" and it is part of the cost of cruising.

Edited January 18, 2012 by peg013

[Ms belp]

As soon as I posted this, I found that someone had just posted a similar question and the knives came out.

 

I am not trying to offend anyone. Yes, this has soured me on NCL before even setting foot on the ship and now I am going to be CERTAIN I get well more than $168 in service from the staff. Enough said.

 

However, due to the fact that $168 is far more than a reasonable tip for the services I will actually call upon (the cruise was not a free gift from NCL).... additional tipping is now out of the question.

 

Matter of principle to me. You don't put your hand out for tips before providing service and then make it uncomfortable for guests to ask for it to be removed. Tacky.

 

No one be mad at me, I am simply asking what seems like a sane question.

 

It is not a tip, it is a service charge for everyone who works for you, from the cooks in the kitchen, to the servers, to the people who load and then unload your dirty dishes. Pick up your towels. Make up your bed, clean up your bathroom, and make you a damn towel animal. If you think $12.00/per day per/thousand wait staff is too much, stay home.

[itzmered]

I hope everyone that bemoans the fact that the same questions come up over and over again realize that if they were not asked over and over there would be no threads for you to read. The only threads would be reviews because at one time or another in the history of this forum every single question has been asked :) Then you might as well get rid of the forum and just read the review pages on the main site

[sdmike]

:)100%

 

For our family, the DSC is 22% of our cruise fare! 22% is a lot when it's not anticipated & has yet to be seen whether service is that far above & beyond the expected.

All this talk about subsidizing the staff.....someone is mismanaging money at the corporate level (ie: being greedy) if the fares aren't adequate to cover decent salaries.

 

Hogwash. You would not believe how tightly all ship expenses are managed. Watch the show "Cruise Inc" sometime. It's eye opening.

 

Do you tip at restaurants? Do you know that most waiters and waitresses make almost no salary or hourly rate, instead relying on tips to "subsidize the staff"? Like with restaurants it's their compensation model for the service staff, and it should not be a surprise since almost all cruise lines have it.

[Starry Eyes]

Ok..so to make the "theory "correct", replace suites with "balcony outside cabin" and reduce the fare to $1,800 and you still have a HUGE disparity between what the lower priced fare pays as a percentage of the fare for the same level of services. It is still significant for the person paying a $300 fare for an inside cabin to be "asked" to pay a 24% gratuity fee that is not advertised. Just tell people that the lowest fare is actually 24% higher. Again...just like a flat tax, regardless of service level.

Not a "theory" ... Reality ...what a concept!

The person on an inside cabin gets the same clean towels, clean bathroom, bed made, sheets changed, dining room meals, etc as ther person in a balcony cabin. Since the same services are expected and received, why shouldn't both passengers pay the same service charge?

 

Let's take it further...Let's say I book a cruise early and am fortunate to get a great deal with a residency rate on my inside cabin:D. You happen to book the same cabin category later, and living elsewhere, cannot get such a great price...you end up paying twice as much for your fare:(...We are in the same cabin category,might even have the same waiters and stewards, should we pay the same gratuity? Or should you pay twice as much as I do to keep the % the same? I submit, it is about service, not %, but you can pay more than I do, if you insist:cool:

[Deadahead Neil]

What you don't seem to understand is that the DSC is for the room stewards, the cooks, the bottle washers, the laundry, the waiters etc....all of which provide the same SERVICE to everyone regardless of cabin. All cabins have sheets, towels, towel animals, bathrooms to be cleaned etc. Everyone eats their meals in the same MDR's, buffet etc and uses food, plates, glasses, utensils, etc. Cabin price has nothing to do with this charge. This is NOT a tip - it is a SERVICE CHARGE. Suite people (hopefully) tip the butlers and concierge separate from the DSC. That is where they pay their extra. It's really not that hard to understand.:rolleyes:

 

I understand it just fine. My point (for those who do not understand it) is that an added service fee that is not advertised or discussed until after you book that is 24% of your fare is a bit much for some people. But since it is not listed as part of your fare, it sounds like "only $ 12.00 per day" if you paid only $50 per day for your fare, to some people that is a chunk of change. At the same % of the fare, the 24% rate against an $1800 fare would be the same as a gratuity of $432 per person for the week! If they hit you up for that you might really scream. But they are not doing that, so instead, the lower priced cabins are paying a much larger % of their fares as a "service fee" So, yes, for the lower fares, it does make a significant difference.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Deadahead Neil

[mpk218]

I understand it just fine. My point (for those who do not understand it) is that an added service fee that is not advertised or ....

 

Deadahead , are you new to cruising ?? Just curious .;)

 

You style seems familiar..

 

 

mpk

[smeyer418]

I understand it just fine. My point (for those who do not understand it) is that an added service fee that is not advertised or discussed until after you book that is 24% of your fare is a bit much for some people. But since it is not listed as part of your fare, it sounds like "only $ 12.00 per day" if you paid only $50 per day for your fare, to some people that is a chunk of change. At the same % of the fare, the 24% rate against an $1800 fare would be the same as a gratuity of $432 per person for the week! If they hit you up for that you might really scream. But they are not doing that, so instead, the lower priced cabins are paying a much larger % of their fares as a "service fee" So, yes, for the lower fares, it does make a significant difference.

 

 

its listed in every ad and brochure....

[Deadahead Neil]

I understand it just fine. My point (for those who do not understand it) is that an added service fee that is not advertised or ....

 

Deadahead , are you new to cruising ?? Just curious .;)

 

You style seems familiar..

 

 

mpk

 

Nope..in fact, the last three cruises we took were on the Pearl in Courtyard Villa (Haven) (even had the same suite) and we are booked again for the same suite for the 18 day from NY to LA in April - '13. And as a note about tipping for service, on our last cruise my total tip to the C. and Butler and room steward was $1,000 for the week (on top of the $336 DSC that I paid for the 4 of us for the week) , so I am not at all against tipping for great service. Just pointing out that a "flat tax" didn't work for Cain, and shouldn't apply here unless it is fully disclosed. This isn't about me!

[mpk218]

 

Nope..in fact, the last three cruises we took were on the Pearl in Courtyard Villa (Haven) (even had the same suite) and we are booked again for the same suite for the 18 day from NY to LA in April - '13. And as a note about tipping for service, on our last cruise my total tip to the C. and Butler and room steward was $1,000 for the week (on top of the $336 DSC that I paid for the 4 of us for the week) , so I am not at all against tipping for great service. Just pointing out that a "flat tax" didn't work for Cain, and shouldn't apply here unless it is fully disclosed. This isn't about me!

 

 

OK ;) Fair enough.

Edited January 18, 2012 by mpk218

[Starry Eyes]

I understand it just fine. My point (for those who do not understand it) is that an added service fee that is not advertised or discussed until after you book that is 24% of your fare is a bit much for some people. But since it is not listed as part of your fare, it sounds like "only $ 12.00 per day" if you paid only $50 per day for your fare, to some people that is a chunk of change. At the same % of the fare, the 24% rate against an $1800 fare would be the same as a gratuity of $432 per person for the week! If they hit you up for that you might really scream. But they are not doing that, so instead, the lower priced cabins are paying a much larger % of their fares as a "service fee" So, yes, for the lower fares, it does make a significant difference.

 

I would feel badly for a newbie on a tight budget who booked a nonrefundable cruise without knowing about the DSC. I am not sure how often that happens, since Travel agents or direct booking agents should tell them before they finalize the booking. OTOH, the cruise lines also post language constantly about the right to add fuel supplements at any time (as oil has been above the threshold for a long time)...so long as the cruise lines do not suddenly add that too, hard to feel too badly about daily charges.

[DMH15]

Valley- we really do think alike!

 

When people complain about one of the local sports teams here, by saying... "we need to do this, we need to do that", I ask them are they really one of the owners. What??? When you buy a team you get to make the rules.

 

NCL like any business can't please all the people all the time.

 

And. OP, I know it seems like we can overwhelm... But of all the repetitive thread topics, booze smuggling, chair hogs, inedible food, etc this is the one that seems to resonate with the NCL enthusiasts the most. I think because we are so fond of the NCL crews.

 

Oh, I have a confession to make. The REAL reason I prefer the DSC being charged to my account is that I used to borrow from the tip envelopes when I lost in the casino. Luckily I was able to make it up. Whew!

 

 

 

First cruise was on HAL, and at the time they had something called : Tipping Not Necessary! We were so confused by it. We asked if that meant tipping included, or was it like a restaurant where you don't HAVE to tip but it is expected, etc. All anyone could tell us was Tipping Not Necessary!

 

I even asked, so if I don't tip anything, that's ok? Tipping Not Necessary!

 

I searched a bit on HAL's CC board and folks there felt kind of the same way we did, it was not a helpful policy.

 

Then we cruised NCL and the DSC was added automatically and we loved it! We felt confident that any tipping we might choose to do on our own was truly up to us.

 

I understand the impetus to post things like NCL should do this, that, or the other thing, but I always have the same thought: "Interesting idea! Maybe when you start your own cruise line, you could try that!" :rolleyes:

[hawaiilvr]

How can people sit here day after day after day and complain that the DSC isn't clearly identified? It is in the FAQ section of the NCL website. If a person is new, shouldn't they check those FAQs out to make sure they are getting what they think they're getting?

 

No one is a bigger tightwad than me, and few people here work harder or have to scrimp and save more than us to cruise once a year. We always sail in inside cabins, rarely eat in the additional surcharge restaurants, do our own shore excursions, etc. I don't begrudge the $12 per day service fee one bit. I know it is there, and know that it will be added to my onboard expenses. It isn't a surprise and it is just a part of cruising. I also try to book with a TA that will give enough of an onboard credit to at least pay for some of it.

 

I just don't know why this topic comes up more than once per day. If you don't like to tip or pay a DSC, I would recommend a different style of vacation. It really is just that simple.

[popsec]

I think I look at this similarly to SDMike. There is going to be some type of service charge regardless of how it comes about--and regardless of what it is called. As a consumer you then have the choice to choose a line that fits best with how you like to go about paying it. In the OP's situation I am somewhat empathetic--because at least part of their issue was that they felt blind sided. I think it is a topic that is easy to misunderstand and that is not made very clear in the booking process.

 

So OP, my goal with this post is to help you better understand the charge and feel better about it--so that you can go on that crusie and have a great time without worrying about this. I just got off a cruise last week, and it is such a great experience that you really want to go with a positive feeling.

 

As others have noted, all lines do something. You are expected to either 1)run around with those crazy envelopes--(which in my opinion ruined the final night of the cruise dealing with this most stressful activity); 2) pay a predetermined amount--$12 per person per day for NCL and other lines that use this method are generally in that vicinity; or 3) it is built intot he fare (thsi is generally done on more upscale lines). In the end, you are going to pay in some way and then you choose a line that best matches how it is you would prefer to pay.

 

Given that you OP had already booked with NCL prior to finding out about the charge, you in effect ended up not being able to exercise your preference. (Yes, many will say you should have researched better etc. etc. and yes, in a perfect world you should have, but I for one can understand how things can slip by). But since you are booked, the best thing is to come to terms with it so that you can have a great crusie--or--if you are still at a point where you can cancel with no penalty, you should probably consider doing so (and I don't mean that in any sarcastic way). Then book either with an upscale line that has the charge build in, or go with a traditional line where you can distribute your envelopes as you please--a factor that is very important to many people and should not be ridiculed. However, you do need to realize that the cruise line DOES get to decide their own pricing strategy--for example--I cannot go on a traditional cruise line where the "envelopes" are used and go to the desk and demand that they instead add a $12 charge per day to my tab because I don't feel like doiong the envelope thing. Nor can I ask a line that builds the charges in the overall cost, to pull them out so that I can hand out envelopes.

 

Cruise lines market themselves in different ways and have pricing strategies done in different ways. On NCL, due to the "freestyle", the envelope thing just doesn't work well--there simply are not a finite group of people that you would be able to tip as is true on traditional lines (where you have the same waitstaff each night). Nor does NCL market themselves as that all inclusive type of high end line. So NCL has identified the $12 charge because they apparently feel it is the best fit for their line.

 

I hated running around with those stupid envelopes chasing people down; and I don't choose to go on the more expensive lines where the charge is built in (although this would actually be my choice--but I generally can't afford these lines). So I am left with lines such as NCL, RCCL, DCL that have the charge identified and added. Because in many ways I would prefer to think of the service as part of the overall cost of the cruise I always choose to pay my charges ahead of time--to me that is like an inclusive fee. And then I never have to think about it. I go on the cruise with it already paid. But what I totally understand is that regardless of what line you go on--you are in some way shape or form going to pay for the service. There's just no way around it--because the service is such a big--and very WONDERFUL--part of the cruise. And there are many staff working very hard to provide excellent service--these people of course have to be paid.

 

So in the end,I hope you can reconcile yourself to paying the fee, and to actually feel good about paying it--I know I did at the end of my cruise last week. Honestly, when I got home and thought about all the wonderful service, I actually regretted not giving out more extra tips in addition to the charge. I hope you will feel that way too. But I do udnerstand your initial negative feeling given that you were not aware of the charge. I hope this helps in someway and I also agree that NCL does need to make it clearer from the beginning that the additional fee will be expected. But please don't let this interfere with your having a fantastic time. :)

I was impressed with your post....well stated. :)

[Raleigh Traveler]

For frequent cruisers and super frequent posters, you all don’t cut new cruisers much slack. I have no problem with the DSC and pay it without question, but I know it is there and plan accordingly. My issue is how it is not stated clearly. One posted stated that it is found on every ad and brochure. I do not receive anything printed from NCL but checked the email advertisements I received from NCL and the ads found on the NCL home page and nothing is stated about the DSC.

I cannot fault a new cruiser for not doing adequate research if that means having to read down to items 23 and 24 on the FAQ page to find a charge that is required to be paid before cruising. To read through the online ads, go though the complete booking process and not be informed about a charge and be surprised after booking is still wrong whether or not they have read all the FAQs or the daily CC posts on the subject.

[fergusonvt]

For frequent cruisers and super frequent posters, you all don’t cut new cruisers much slack. I have no problem with the DSC and pay it without question, but I know it is there and plan accordingly. My issue is how it is not stated clearly. One posted stated that it is found on every ad and brochure. I do not receive anything printed from NCL but checked the email advertisements I received from NCL and the ads found on the NCL home page and nothing is stated about the DSC.

I cannot fault a new cruiser for not doing adequate research if that means having to read down to items 23 and 24 on the FAQ page to find a charge that is required to be paid before cruising. To read through the online ads, go though the complete booking process and not be informed about a charge and be surprised after booking is still wrong whether or not they have read all the FAQs or the daily CC posts on the subject.

 

 

OP was not really about it being hidden. It was about how the OP didn't want NCL telling him how much and who to tip.

[sparks1093]

For frequent cruisers and super frequent posters, you all don’t cut new cruisers much slack. I have no problem with the DSC and pay it without question, but I know it is there and plan accordingly. My issue is how it is not stated clearly. One posted stated that it is found on every ad and brochure. I do not receive anything printed from NCL but checked the email advertisements I received from NCL and the ads found on the NCL home page and nothing is stated about the DSC.

I cannot fault a new cruiser for not doing adequate research if that means having to read down to items 23 and 24 on the FAQ page to find a charge that is required to be paid before cruising. To read through the online ads, go though the complete booking process and not be informed about a charge and be surprised after booking is still wrong whether or not they have read all the FAQs or the daily CC posts on the subject.

 

But it isn't required to be paid before cruising, that is an option.

[mrsbuddha123]

Disney Cruise Line also has this service fee at least on the Dream. By the way you can have it removed and tip on your own. I love cruising I just prepay the charges before I get on the boat and take it as part of the charge of the cruise.

[sparks1093]

Disney Cruise Line also has this service fee at least on the Dream. By the way you can have it removed and tip on your own. I love cruising I just prepay the charges before I get on the boat and take it as part of the charge of the cruise.

 

Maybe on Disney but tipping on your own on NCL would be a nightmare, trying to carry enough cash in order to tip everyone who served you. Much easier to not re-invent the wheel and leave the DSC in place;).

[che5904]

My issue is how it is not stated clearly.

 

I cannot fault a new cruiser for not doing adequate research if that means having to read down to items 23 and 24 on the FAQ page to find a charge that is required to be paid before cruising. To read through the online ads, go though the complete booking process and not be informed about a charge and be surprised after booking is still wrong whether or not they have read all the FAQs or the daily CC posts on the subject.

 

I will agree that NCL could do a better job at making this information more easily seen, but that can be said with all cruise lines. I would think if you did any research at all on your vacation that FAQ would probably be the first place you should look. And yes I think if you are not choosing to use an informed TA then you are responsible for researching and investigating a new vacation, or in this case a new cruise line.

 

The DSC in NOT required to be paid before cruising it is a choice. The other option is daily on your on board account. Which would be exactly what the OP said they wanted was not to pay ahead of time for something they didn't know whether deserved it.

 

As for the "surprise", it is not really a surprise unless you just didn't intend on tipping in the first place. The money for the tip is just handled in a different way.