The Not So Discretionary Discretionary Service Fees

[Cauzneffct]

So does this mean when we Americans travel in Europe, we don't have to pay the service charges added to restaurants and hotels, because it would be for Europeans only?

 

Strange that. Like a fool, I didn't demand that I pay "small town America" rate for everything I purchased in Scandinavia. "$10 for a beer? No, no, no. That's not what I'm accustomed to paying. Please take $6 off the bill."

[Demonyte]

Somebody said when in Rome…. Well I purchased the cruise in the UK and the cruise itself is within Europe, I will do what is customary here not in America.

 

 

I said that - and the exact paragraph continued with explanation about that I referred to the ship, not the sea it sails on because the location of the ship does not change ship's inner workings as it is owned by an American company and has American policies.

 

Also you purchased the cruise from an American company so your tries to justify your actions of stiffing the crew are moot.

[auntiemjo]

Before autocharging gratuities became the norm about 5 years ago, the practice was to tip your server (when there was fixed seating) his/her assistant and your cabin steward. that's how it was possible. 3 envelopes.

 

I am certain one can have the charges removed by simply asking once aboard. You cannot be forced to tip when the gratuities are an add on and not rolled into the cruise fare. I'm just as certain that the cruise lines do not publicize this fact due to the consequences that would undoubted follow if this were common knowledge. Not endorsing this practice but just adding to the discussion.

Edited June 27, 2015 by auntiemjo

[jaja]

'discretionary' actually states on the NCL site that IF you have a problem you should contact Guest Services and IF they don't satisfy that problem THEN, at your discretion, you can adjust the charges. I'll be happy to post the link here if you wish.

 

How can you actually 'tip' each server cash. At breakfast, lunch, and dinner, in the MDR there is always more than one taking care of you. One takes your order for food and delivers it, one takes your drink order, another refills your water glass. You intend to tip all three of these people per meal? How about if you go to the Buffet? How are you going to tip these people? A tip for the person who clears your table and takes away your plates? A tip for each person who's standing and restocking each food area? Then of course, you'd have to tip your room steward cash also. Not to mention all the 'behind the scene' crew that wash your sheets and towels, clear the pool area tables, clean the hallways and the rest of the boat, etc. etc. etc. Just wondering....

 

Harriet

 

 

Good explanation/ post..

 

I find the DSC convenient and prepaying it also convenient -better for budgeting and avoiding that dreadful end of cruise multipage bill ;)

[SuiteCruiser]

Our Agency provided us with the information on the mandatory charges as required by UK law. We didn't actually read about the Service Charges until the cruise was purchased, but as it was explained to us, it is not a mandatory charge, so does not have to be disclosed with the fare. I agree it would have been nice if it was, but as someone else stated, there are other charges for additions that are not disclosed until aboard ship.

 

I assume when she stated the charges are set for the Americans, she meant that they probably make up the highest percentage of guest and it is customary for them to pay such high gratuity rates. Europeans normally adjust these to fit with their tipping custom. We pay our workers a proper wage and would not dream of paying such high of gratuities. I cannot understand how Americans pay their workers so little, then want to tip them so much to make up for it.

 

Somebody said when in Rome…. Well I purchased the cruise in the UK and the cruise itself is within Europe, I will do what is customary here not in America.

 

So because staff are sent to do a Med cruise, they no longer deserve tombe paid? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[k9x8]

I appreciate all the responses. It appears this might be our one and only cruise.

 

It actually was not our intention to book a cruise as we normally go to Spain or the Canaries. Our agent knew our budget and recommended the cruise. We looked at the brochure but didn’t see anything about additional charges. She told us that it was all inclusive except for the alcohol and the premier dining. I did ring them up when we found out about it and she informed us we could have it taken off and provide our own gratuities. £230 for 7 days is extremely high for gratuities in Europe. We normally budget about £10 a day and usually don’t spend that.

 

Please explain your math. $12.95x2x7= $181.30. That's £150!

Is the exchange rate not in your favor? We knew it was against us when we visited the UK, but we sucked it up.

[MisterFidgetpants]

However the COMPANY's home base is located in Miami. NCL is an AMERICAN company - regardless of where their ships are registered.

 

Harriet

 

All the cruise lines do it to avoid paying taxes and to avoid US labor laws. NCL is not the only one.

[dwgreenlee]

However the COMPANY's home base is located in Miami. NCL is an AMERICAN company - regardless of where their ships are registered.

 

Harriet

 

NCL Holdings is incorporated in Bermuda, the major stockholder is Genting Group of Hong Kong, and the ships (excluding POA) are registered and flagged in the Bahamas. NCL Holdings is a "partnership" (not even a corporation or LLC) for US Tax purposes and the vast majority of their employees are not Americans. They do have offices in Miami as well as other parts of the world. Not sure what makes you think this is an American company.

Edited June 27, 2015 by dwgreenlee

[RoobyDoo]

NCL Holdings is incorporated in Bermuda, the major stockholder is Genting Group of Hong Kong, and the ships (excluding POA) are registered and flagged in the Bahamas. NCL Holdings is a "partnership" (not even a corporation or LLC) for US Tax purposes and the vast majority of their employees are not Americans. They do have offices in Miami as well as other parts of the world. Not sure what makes you think this is an American company.

 

Although what you have stated is true, NCLH headquarters is based in Miami, so technically it IS an "American company".

[njhorseman]

NCL Holdings is incorporated in Bermuda, the major stockholder is Genting Group of Hong Kong, and the ships (excluding POA) are registered and flagged in the Bahamas. NCL Holdings is a "partnership" (not even a corporation or LLC) for US Tax purposes and the vast majority of their employees are not Americans. They do have offices in Miami as well as other parts of the world. Not sure what makes you think this is an American company.

 

NCLH stock is traded on NASDAQ...it most certainly is a corporation and hasn't been a partnership since it went public on January 18, 2013.

 

Genting, while still holding a substantial amount of NCLH stock, is no longer NCLH's largest stockholder and no longer has any seats on NCLH's board of directors. Genting has been selling its NCLH stock to the extent it's permitted to and not long ago purchased Crystal Cruises.

 

NCLH's corporate headquarters are in Miami. However, as you state US taxation of NCLH is minimized because of its incorporation in Bermuda and flagging of all its ships other than POA in foreign countries. NCL ships and the three Regent Seven Seas ships currently in service are flagged in the Bahamas. Oceania's ships are flagged in the Marshall Islands, as will the Regent Seven Seas ship currently under construction.

 

Of course the foreign incorporation and flagging is in no way unique to NCLH. The other US-headquartered major cruise line holding companies, Carnival and Royal Caribbean, do the same.

[dwgreenlee]

NCLH stock is traded on NASDAQ...it most certainly is a corporation and hasn't been a partnership since it went public on January 18, 2013.

 

Genting, while still holding a substantial amount of NCLH stock, is no longer NCLH's largest stockholder and no longer has any seats on NCLH's board of directors. Genting has been selling its NCLH stock to the extent it's permitted to and not long ago purchased Crystal Cruises.

 

NCLH's corporate headquarters are in Miami. However, as you state US taxation of NCLH is minimized because of its incorporation in Bermuda and flagging of all its ships other than POA in foreign countries. NCL ships and the three Regent Seven Seas ships currently in service are flagged in the Bahamas. Oceania's ships are flagged in the Marshall Islands, as will the Regent Seven Seas ship currently under construction.

 

Of course the foreign incorporation and flagging is in no way unique to NCLH. The other US-headquartered major cruise line holding companies, Carnival and Royal Caribbean, do the same.

 

My statement was that NCL Holdings was not an American Corporation - it is clearly a corporation incorporated under the laws of Bermuda.

 

I agree this is not unique - Carnival is incorporated in Panama and RCI is incorporated in Liberia.

 

My only point here is that I do not consider any company that - (1) is foreign incorporated, (2) employees mostly foreign workers, (3) registers and flags it's major capital assets in foreign countries, (4) has extensive foreign owners and extensive foreign financial transactions and (5) does everything possible to operate without paying US Taxes - to be an "American Company".

 

I am not stating any objections to this situation - just noting that you should be very aware you are leaving "America" when you step on-board.

[dwgreenlee]

Although what you have stated is true, NCLH headquarters is based in Miami, so technically it IS an "American company".

 

I do not consider any company that - (1) is foreign incorporated, (2) employees mostly foreign workers, (3) registers and flags it's major capital assets in foreign countries, (4) has extensive foreign owners and extensive foreign financial transactions and (5) does everything possible to operate without paying US Taxes - to be an "American Company".

 

I am not stating any objections to this situation - just noting that you should be very aware you are leaving "America" when you step on-board.

 

The location of the "Headquarters" does not mean much especially since the UK site it is listed as London, England, the German site lists it as Wiesbaden, Germany, etc.

[hpecorari]

I really don't care, actually, if the company is American, Italian, or from tim-buc-too......When I vacation I follow the rules of the ship, the hotel, the campground, the airline, the bus, the train, etc.....no matter what country it's in, who owns, it, etc. I simply follow the rules.

 

Harriet

[Realitoes]

Actually, on the NCL site, at least the American site, as I haven't checked any other sites, UK, Italy, etc. etc. etc. it does talk about the discretionary service charge and states there that if there is a problem please report it and if the problem is not solved then one may ADJUST their discretionary service charge.

 

Some consider adjust to mean lower. Other's consider adjust to mean remove.

I haven't heard of anyone that considered adjust to mean higher! :)

 

Harriet

 

Adjust is just that, move it up or down, and it can be adjusted to 0. Yes the website says that, but it does not require it on the legal documents.

[Realitoes]

Well, that depends. The rules on the NCL Website say one thing - and that's what I follow.

 

Everyone knows what the website says....and that's what I follow. I've received good service and I can't find another place on this earth that I can be served, eat, sleep, have my room cleaned, have entertainment, and be catered to as well as be moved from one place to another for a tip/gratuity/service charge of $12.95 a day. That's a deal for me!

 

Harriet

 

Definitely your right if you want to personally use the Website FAQ as rules to follow.

 

The Guest Ticket Contract contains the actual terms and conditions that you and NCL agree to abide by.

 

It even state in the contract that it supersedes and excludes any prior representation:

 

"The Guest agrees that this Contract constitutes the entire agreement between the Guest and Carrier, and shall supersede and exclude any prior representations that may have been made in relation to the cruise to the Guest or anyone representing him/her by anyone, including but not limited to anything stated in the Carrier's brochures, advertisements, and other promotional materials, by Norwegian Cruise Line or NCL America employees or by third persons such as travel agents."

Edited June 28, 2015 by Realitoes

[MisterFidgetpants]

I really don't care, actually, if the company is American, Italian, or from tim-buc-too......When I vacation I follow the rules of the ship, the hotel, the campground, the airline, the bus, the train, etc.....no matter what country it's in, who owns, it, etc. I simply follow the rules.

 

Harriet

I just wanted to respond on another note. You said you have never heard of anyone increasing DSC. On another cruise line I had OBC I wanted to give to our room steward.

 

If I cashed out the obc I would be subject to a 3% fee (loss). Now that fee is 5%. Instead of losing out on money I was going to turn over I asked that it be added as additional amount to my account to use up the OBC. I know that's not precisely what you meant, but it should illustrate that people can do what they want with the charge.

 

Ultimately I had to wonder if that money was really given over. I do know that had I incurred the fee but given the cash I would not have to give it another thought. This then lead me to wonder if the people who provide me services are being paid what I'm charged for those services. And the only way I know that is by dealing cash from the start.

 

I thought you may appreciate that perspective.

[dwgreenlee]

I really don't care, actually, if the company is American, Italian, or from tim-buc-too......When I vacation I follow the rules of the ship, the hotel, the campground, the airline, the bus, the train, etc.....no matter what country it's in, who owns, it, etc. I simply follow the rules.

 

Harriet

 

Most people want to follow the rules. The discussion in this thread is (1) just what are the rules and (2) how are they communicated.

 

NCL clearly wants you to pay the service charge - if you are actually required to do so is the question. Some folks would like to remove the charge and tip directly - is this acceptable? Clear as mud to me.

 

NCL also adds 18% to bar, spa, specialty restaurants, etc. but offers a line on each bill for "additional tip" - in Teppanyaki they offer a "chefs tip" and "Server tip" line. Should you feel obligated to add money after paying both the service charge and the 18%? Should you feel cheep by not leaving a third tip (and a forth if in Teppanyaki)?

 

I do not have the answers but this is good discussion that is more complicated that just following the "rules" or doing what is "American."