The Not So Discretionary Discretionary Service Fees

[redlef]

Plattworx,

 

Some of these "cruise critics" should really be called "New Poster Critics," because they are so quick to tell you what you should do and why you're wrong for not seeing it their way. I get a real kick out of people who join a thread to tell you how "extensively" the topic has been covered, as if everyone in the world had time to sit on their computer all day and generate 5000 posts.

 

If your TA didn't tell you about the daily charge, they did you a disservice. I don't know what you can do about that. However, I would like to suggest that many are misinterpreting the word "discretionary."

 

You see, we wrongly assume it is at OUR discretion, when NCL really means it is at THEIR discretion.

 

Not that looking at circumstances that way changes your situation. I hope the $168 isn't that big of a burden for you and that you enjoy your vacation and decide it was worthwhile in the end.

[oh2cruise]

Just because I was curious, I figured out the % of the cruise fare this DSC is pp for 7 nights. I used my upcoming cruise and the actual cabin rate pp before taxes/port charges. The least expensive cabin for 2 was $1128. The most expensive balcony is $1958. I did not look at Suites, as an additional gratuity for butler & conceirge is truly discretionary and will vary. Depending on cabin selection, the DSC of 84/pp/7 night cruise ($168 total) ranges from 15% for the least expensive inside to 8.5% for the most expensive balcony still available. This is very interesting. Understanding that not mattering what cabin one selects, the level of service provided is equal, I can see where possibly the additional cost does seem excessive to some. I, for one, would prefer that the DSC simply be added at the front for all to see, much like port charges or just increase the cost pp and eliminate all gratuities except bar/casino which are individual choices.

[che5904]

As the OP and someone new to this board, I come here looking for advice and council before my first NCL cruise and have gotten some excellent help in the past. However, I must say the tone of some of the responses is offputting.

 

 

I will continue to ask questions and just ignore those who are grumpy. Thanks!

 

OK first off whatever I write I would directly say to anyone face to face.

 

This is one of the many touchy subjects of CC, and as you posted you were aware of the flack that probably would come with it.

 

But I have read your opening post a couple of times and each time am coming away with the same feeling. I did not see any questions, unless you want to count "huh?" for anyone to help you with, advise or give council to. I read your post as a rant or the need to vent. Perhaps I missed the question you were looking for an answer to.

 

I believe a lot of this NCL could alleviate by making sure all of their documentation read the same and by making this more visible before the booking process.

 

I just think this is a case of another argument for either making sure you have a good knowledgable TA or doing further research before jumping into something JMO.

[cliffd64]

Not at all , but its a subject that keeps coming up , and more and more people dont like it - in fact speaking to a marketing exc at Virgin Holiday cruises , there are more and more deals with DSL/ grat's / TIPs included in the price as they claim that people prefer this.

 

As I keep saying , you can buy a car for £1000 plus £250 per wheel , or £2000 for the car ... makes no difference but the latter would stop a lot of people getting angry before they even cruise.

 

- or at least take the word discretionary out of the terms.

 

First of all, there's no word "discretionary" that NCL uses regarding this service charge.

 

Secondly, while I agree that including the service charge in the fare would cut down on the anger before people cruise, it also would remove the ability to even attempt to have it adjusted if there was a service problem that could not be resolved to your satisfaction. Being a distinct charge allows you to have it adjusted if there is an issue that cannot be solved to your satisfaction. You cannot adjust your cruise fare once on board...

[mailbroad]

I've said this many times, but for the sake of the OP, I want to say that I see the service charge and the consequential lack of necessity to tip individually to be a great convenience. I don't want to carry cash or worry about finding certain crew members on the last day. I want to enjoy my vacation. While I didn't know about "DSC" the first time I cruised, I certainly budgeted for tipping as I would with any vacation. It came as a relief to me that the process was simplified for me. Then, if I choose, I will tip over and above or, even more often, I will complete a STYLE card for an exceptional employee.

 

But I believe in seeing the positive in things - especially when related to travel. I was going to tip anyway, they made it easier - a POSITIVE. :) It is one of the MANY reasons I love to cruise. Life is pretty easy on a cruise ship. Unless, of course, you want to get hot and bothered about something - then, there is always that opportunity as well - usually created by another passenger, not the crew. :rolleyes:

 

agree.

[mailbroad]

Dear Friends,

 

As the OP and someone new to this board, I come here looking for advice and council before my first NCL cruise and have gotten some excellent help in the past. However, I must say the tone of some of the responses is offputting.

 

Some points I'd like to make from the above and other threads:

 

• "If you don't like the way NCL does things don't sail NCL" is not a welcoming, friendly nor helpful response. However, I have seen it here and on other posts where some people disagree with the OP. Would you address this person (or me) with such a tone face to face? Then why be so negative here when someone is simply asking a question?
  

 

• "Dear board moderator , can you please put ALL thread titles about the DSC in bold red on page one ... PLEASE" - Is also not helpful. If NCL DSC comes up over and over and over on this forum then clearly alot of people have an issue with the policy and want to discuss it. I thank someone for saying just that in a reply. Hushing up people who want to discuss the DSC by moving them to another page is not warm, welcoming or helpful to the forums. If a DSC question annoys you, please skip the thread. I was just asking for opinions.
  

 

• I thank the person who said "The DSC is not obvious on the website ". Nope, there was no mention of it when I did my booking and I learned about it when I got my welcome kit later. Yes, I could have searched the web site to see if they tack on service charges on top of the cruise fee before booking... but who would think to do that? Would you call a restaurant and ask if you have to tip upon entry? No.
  

Some people here use a tone in their response as if they are owners or crew of NCL and I have just snatched $168 from their pocket. I am not sure how that is helpful to people feeling welcome to ask any questions of the forum.

I thank all of you who had positive responses and/or saw my point and had my back. But there is never a need for nasty nor negative comments. I hope many agree with me on that. I will continue to ask questions and just ignore those who are grumpy. Thanks!

 

These are very good points! I shall remember them when I post.

[lee101224]

First of all, there's no word "discretionary" that NCL uses regarding this service charge.

 

Secondly, while I agree that including the service charge in the fare would cut down on the anger before people cruise, it also would remove the ability to even attempt to have it adjusted if there was a service problem that could not be resolved to your satisfaction. Being a distinct charge allows you to have it adjusted if there is an issue that cannot be solved to your satisfaction. You cannot adjust your cruise fare once on board...

 

Read post number 16 ! , saves my having to log on find the example and point out your wrong .

[dalgirl]

Im Guessing that it was my post that you refer to , and yes the knives came out , luckily im thick skinned , and enjoy a debate .... as stated many times if we were all the same the world would be a boring place.

 

Truth of the matter is you will now get a few people attacking your opinion , they can be quite single minded and unable to accept your point of view ... take the time to read through the thread i started , now has 185 posts , ignore the ones that shown one person moaning at the other , read between the lines . There are a lot of people that agree with you !!!

 

Like you i never mind tipping for great service , and we tip well . however it seems that some people for whatever reason love the fact that they buy something for say £10 , plus £1 this and £2 that , they think they have a deal. JUST SELL IT AT £13 to start with !!! the staff would be better of because the DSL is included , can not be taken off under any etc , it would simply be part of the cruise . Then the staff would be looking to make extra , via normal tipping , they would work hard , you would get even better service, be happier , you would tip more , they would get more , everyones a winner !!! Simple !

 

Dont take the upcoming negative comments too personal , people get very hot up about this , my only advice is something i learnt , if you do remove it you are known to the staff , whether this is right or wrong , it happens , so might be worth leaving on simply to enjoy the service and in protest leave nothing else on top , thats what i am planning on doing !

 

For those who are horrified at the service fee and who keep starting new threads without bothering to search out the question already discussed

ad nauseam - please come back from your cruise and let us know if you really thought this was a rip-off, how you went about removing it, and if you did,what you thought of the service you were given. And how much did you end up tipping (no cheating now, the truth!).

 

My Mom made my life a living misery about the service tip until she actually took the cruise. Now she thinks the charge was very reasonable and that the service she got was wonderful.

 

And Monitor: Please put up a bold red thread about the service charges, this is getting overly ridiculous:(

[sjbdtz]

It completely baffles me why these 3 things tend to go together in these threads:

 

 

- I'm a generous tipper.

 

- I want to apply my generous tipping as I see fit.

 

 

- $168 is WAY too much in tips for a week.

 

 

One of the main reasons for the DSC is because of the 3rd bullet point above. $168 is NOT too much, and by automating the process the cruiseline is able to provide a greater degree of income stability to their crew.

 

 

 

.

[njhorseman]

It completely baffles me why these 3 things tend to go together in these threads...

 

 

 

Now there's a rhetorical question if I've ever read one...:D;)

[redlef]

I did not see any questions, unless you want to count "huh?" for anyone to help you with, advise or give council to. I read your post as a rant or the need to vent. Perhaps I missed the question you were looking for an answer to.

 

Are all posts required to have a question?

Isn't it okay for a person to rant, if they feel the need to vent?

 

So what if someone wants to stir up the pot (and I'm not saying that was the OPs intention). If you don't want to play, there are plenty of other threads to read.

 

Would it be such a big deal to live and let live?

[Raleigh Traveler]

First of all, there's no word "discretionary" that NCL uses regarding this service charge.

 

Secondly, while I agree that including the service charge in the fare would cut down on the anger before people cruise, it also would remove the ability to even attempt to have it adjusted if there was a service problem that could not be resolved to your satisfaction. Being a distinct charge allows you to have it adjusted if there is an issue that cannot be solved to your satisfaction. You cannot adjust your cruise fare once on board...

Attached is a "screen print" from a booking that clearly shows the term "discretionary" in relation to the DSC. What do people thing the D stand for. I agree that it is misinterpreted but it is also misleading.

descretionary.pdf

[che5904]

Now there's a rhetorical question if I've ever read one...:D;)

 

:D

 

It completely baffles me why these 3 things tend to go together in these threads:

 

 

- I'm a generous tipper.

 

- I want to apply my generous tipping as I see fit.

 

 

- $168 is WAY too much in tips for a week.

 

 

One of the main reasons for the DSC is because of the 3rd bullet point above. $168 is NOT too much, and by automating the process the cruiseline is able to provide a greater degree of income stability to their crew.

 

 

I don't remember how I first discovered that I would owe the DSC. It wasn't on CC but I do remember when I first seen the amount, I thought "wow thats a lot of money for something that basically appears to be in lieu of tipping". But because I'm a curious soul, I sat complete with pen, paper and calculator and did some adding.

 

I consider myself a good tipper but I certainly don't consider myself a generous tipper. I only added things like cabin steward (I thought there was one at the time not 2), and my three meals a day, if I had to pay separately for these in a chain restaurant. In my calculation, by paying the DSC, I was ahead of the game financially. It would have cost me more doing it the other way so I was more than happy to pay that amount.

 

I did read that if my service was below par my option was to seek help further up the line and if still not satisfied that I could adjust the DSC. But I have to say that although I knew those things, I did not go on my cruise believing I would get anything but great service. I wasn't disappointed.

[che5904]

Are all posts required to have a question?

Isn't it okay for a person to rant, if they feel the need to vent?

 

So what if someone wants to stir up the pot (and I'm not saying that was the OPs intention). If you don't want to play, there are plenty of other threads to read.

 

Would it be such a big deal to live and let live?

 

I think it is perfectly fine if that is what the OP was doing but you totally missed the point. I was responding to the comment that the OP made of what they were looking for from CC was "advice and council" and wondered then what he/she was actually asking for. I didn't say that, the OP did, I was just then asking what "advice and council" then they were looking for.

 

I can't offer help, advice or council if I don't know what the darn question even is.

[Mooder]

:D

 

 

 

I don't remember how I first discovered that I would owe the DSC. It wasn't on CC but I do remember when I first seen the amount, I thought "wow thats a lot of money for something that basically appears to be in lieu of tipping". But because I'm a curious soul, I sat complete with pen, paper and calculator and did some adding.

 

I consider myself a good tipper but I certainly don't consider myself a generous tipper. I only added things like cabin steward (I thought there was one at the time not 2), and my three meals a day, if I had to pay separately for these in a chain restaurant. In my calculation, by paying the DSC, I was ahead of the game financially. It would have cost me more doing it the other way so I was more than happy to pay that amount.

 

I did read that if my service was below par my option was to seek help further up the line and if still not satisfied that I could adjust the DSC. But I have to say that although I knew those things, I did not go on my cruise believing I would get anything but great service. I wasn't disappointed.

 

Che, this is very close to my own experience. I have never ever felt that I was being forced to over tip on NCL. Though I sometimes wish I could afford to tip even more than I do.

 

And I have to repeat that any traveler should be factoring tipping into their budget regardless of whether they know how it is handled by the cruise line or not. And if they don't know how it is handled in a country or vacation type that is new to them, they should be researching it. So, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the "they didn't tell up front me" argument.

 

OP, no one should be rude to you. But we can disagree without being accused of being rude, can't we? I always wish that OPs who get attacked would resist the temptation to take the bait and respond instead to the polite disagreements. Maybe, just maybe, it would be a more positive conversation. I know, I'm an optimist. ;)

[Zeno]

1. Do your research before you travel - I have never had any trouble locating references to "service charges", "DSC charges", various taxes etc for ANY vacation I have taken - but then I make the effort to determine how much a trip will cost me BEFORE I book it.

2. If one finds service charges, DSC, whatever - to be so onerous - CANCEL the trip, get a refund and look elsewhere for your vacation (and maybe do some MINIMAL research before booking).

 

I know this sounds harsh but this constant whining about a WELL-KNOWN charge grates after a while. People need to accept personal responsibility for their travel decisions.

IF you are inexperienced go through a REPUTABLE travel agent. This is exactly what we did for our first cruise and she made sure we had no surprises.

[tjc78]

I took my first cruise in September and was happy that most of the tipping was included in the service charge. It made it easier for us (because being new cruisers it would have been difficult to know who to tip). The 15% bar gratuity probably saved us money, because I typically tip @20% anyway.

 

At the end of the week we gave our room steward an extra $30, and a $20 each to two bar tenders that took really good care of us.

 

I really have no interest at the end of a cruise to hand out envelopes to 5 or 10 different people. We had such good service on the Gem by a multitude of people, the $24 a day for us was well worth it.

[Raleigh Traveler]

Che, this is very close to my own experience. I have never ever felt that I was being forced to over tip on NCL. Though I sometimes wish I could afford to tip even more than I do.

 

And I have to repeat that any traveler should be factoring tipping into their budget regardless of whether they know how it is handled by the cruise line or not. And if they don't know how it is handled in a country or vacation type that is new to them, they should be researching it. So, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the "they didn't tell up front me" argument.

 

OP, no one should be rude to you. But we can disagree without being accused of being rude, can't we? I always wish that OPs who get attacked would resist the temptation to take the bait and respond instead to the polite disagreements. Maybe, just maybe, it would be a more positive conversation. I know, I'm an optimist. ;)

 

Sorry, I keep reading this "they should be researching it' and no sympathy for not knowing up front and putting the responsibility on the cruiser. Go to the website and tell me how easy it is to find that you need to pay the DSC. You can spend hours looking at cruises and pricing and never see one word about it. The responsibility falls on NCL to be up front with this. I agree with the charge but to go through a complete booking process online and the first time you are told about the DSC is after booking is wrong.

[CPT Trips]

First of all, there's no word "discretionary" that NCL uses regarding this service charge.

 

Secondly, while I agree that including the service charge in the fare would cut down on the anger before people cruise, it also would remove the ability to even attempt to have it adjusted if there was a service problem that could not be resolved to your satisfaction. Being a distinct charge allows you to have it adjusted if there is an issue that cannot be solved to your satisfaction. You cannot adjust your cruise fare once on board...

 

Anyone have data on how frequently NCL Front Desk staff adjust the DSC downward for unsatisfied cruisers?

 

It completely baffles me why these 3 things tend to go together in these threads:

 

 

- I'm a generous tipper.

 

- I want to apply my generous tipping as I see fit.

 

 

- $168 is WAY too much in tips for a week.

 

 

One of the main reasons for the DSC is because of the 3rd bullet point above. $168 is NOT too much, and by automating the process the cruiseline is able to provide a greater degree of income stability to their crew.

 

Bolding mine - NCL could provide income stability by paying crew more and raising the cruise fare $12 a day. But since they apparently do not want to do that, I'm OK with the DSC - I tended to overtip cabin attendents and waitstaff in the "good old days," so this saves me a few bucks.

Attached is a "screen print" from a booking that clearly shows the term "discretionary" in relation to the DSC. What do people thing the D stand for. I agree that it is misinterpreted but it is also misleading.

 

"D" = daily or perhaps demanded.

[Mooder]

Sorry, I keep reading this "they should be researching it' and no sympathy for not knowing up front and putting the responsibility on the cruiser. Go to the website and tell me how easy it is to find that you need to pay the DSC. You can spend hours looking at cruises and pricing and never see one word about it. The responsibility falls on NCL to be up front with this. I agree with the charge but to go through a complete booking process online and the first time you are told about the DSC is after booking is wrong.

 

When I said I have no sympathy, I wasn't addressing whether NCL is clear enough about it. My point is that even if NCL doesn't make it clear enough, I know I will have to tip at some point. So, I don't see how anyone gets caught unaware without enough money.

 

As to your point about whether it is clear enough, a quick scan of the FAQ on the NCL website answers these questions. Didn't take me hours, took me 30 seconds.

[Zeno]

Sorry, I keep reading this "they should be researching it' and no sympathy for not knowing up front and putting the responsibility on the cruiser. Go to the website and tell me how easy it is to find that you need to pay the DSC. You can spend hours looking at cruises and pricing and never see one word about it. The responsibility falls on NCL to be up front with this. I agree with the charge but to go through a complete booking process online and the first time you are told about the DSC is after booking is wrong.

 

Uhm - go to NCL website. Click on FAQs. Click on "What's the service charge."

Completely detailed. Two clicks, minimal effort.

 

Or READ a brochure (either paper or online download) - it's documented there. "What's not included in my cruise fare." You can order them from NCL if you like paper.

 

Or get a TA.

 

All in all it takes maybe 5 minutes (except the TA).

[plattworx]

For those who are horrified at the service fee and who keep starting new threads without bothering to search out the question already discussed

ad nauseam - please come back from your cruise and let us know if you really thought this was a rip-off, how you went about removing it, and if you did,what you thought of the service you were given. And how much did you end up tipping (no cheating now, the truth!).

 

My Mom made my life a living misery about the service tip until she actually took the cruise. Now she thinks the charge was very reasonable and that the service she got was wonderful.

 

And Monitor: Please put up a bold red thread about the service charges, this is getting overly ridiculous:(

 

1. $168 is nothing to us. I just feel it should have been listed with the port fees, etc.... not on a welcome kit or have to be searched for on the web.

 

2. I hear that the service on NCL is outstanding, I am sure they will earn their $168.

 

3. dalgirl, the wording of your response above is exactly the unhelpful, abrasive tone myself and others have noted on this thread and others. Thank you for the example so I could highlight exactly what I meant.

 

80% of the responses to my post have been helpful and/or supportive or at least saw my point, 20% are from people I hope to never cruise with. Enough said. I see these boards are gonna be fun.

[LadyShiva]

I need to post a correction; Disney also recommends $12 per person per day: http://cruisetip.tpkeller.com/

 

So the NCL daily service charge isn't even more expensive than Disney; it's just collected differently!

[sparks1093]

When I said I have no sympathy, I wasn't addressing whether NCL is clear enough about it. My point is that even if NCL doesn't make it clear enough, I know I will have to tip at some point. So, I don't see how anyone gets caught unaware without enough money.

 

As to your point about whether it is clear enough, a quick scan of the FAQ on the NCL website answers these questions. Didn't take me hours, took me 30 seconds.

 

Thanks Mooder, I was going to say the same thing.

[ryty44]

While I have found similar threads, they seem to be from foreign travelers, so I guess I’ll start a new conversation. I have taken two cruises before (Royal Caribbean and Disney) but the last was 8 years ago, clearly things have changed.

 

We booked a 7 day cruise on the Gem from in late Winter of this year several weeks ago. Thought we got a really good price for a balcony room. Never traveled on NCL before but when our welcome kit came I was somewhat floored to see they were going to take the liberty of charging us $12 or so a day per person for “prepaid service fees”. According to their web site, I can prepay them now (they would love that) for $168 for my party of two.

 

Huh?

 

When was the last time you walked into a restaurant and gave the host a tip in advance for a server you had yet to meet or experience how well they did their job? Maybe this is now common, but Disney and RC never did this when I traveled with them. I tipped as I chose as the voyage went on... and I tipped well when called for.

 

We are not cheap and tip very well when we elect to tip for good service. I am sorry, but NCL simply deciding the service I am going to receive is going to make me want to tip $168 total during my trip and if I don’t prepay they are just going to add that daily to my room fee REALLY feels rude to me.

 

I know how cruise ship personnel are paid (or not). I know how they need tips. I get it. However, we are really easy guests. I probably will never use room service (I don’t care for eating in my room/cabin), I rarely call for additional pillows or special cabin service unless something is wrong and we’re probably going to hit the buffet for many of our meals. I’ll be lucky if I pass by the main dining room.

 

So, in our case, I am being asked to pay $168 in service fees so someone can make up our cabin each day and maybe something for one sit down restaurant when I tire of the buffet. Never have I left what works out to a $20 a day tip to a housekeeper at a hotel. That is essentially what NCL is telling me they expect based on the services I know I will require from the crew.. very little.

 

This policy actually makes me want to tip less. I know it says “discretionary” but “prepay now or we’ll ad it to your bill unless you come have an awkward conversation with us on board and ask us to remove or reduce it” is not the definition of discretionary. It's call "a mugging" or jacking up the cruise fee.

 

“Discretionary” is “Yes, please make it easy for me by tipping for me” or “No, leave my bill the way it is, I’ll tip when I feel one is deserved.”

 

Again, those who give me great service will be well taken care of. How do you get NCL to NOT do this and leave tipping up the guest? Really annoyed by this one. I know there is a tip pool... but that means the excellent employee I tip is going to have to share their tip with people who I never even received service from. Not any better.

 

I do believe that the "Discretionary" charges can be hard on the pocket when traveling on a budget. I cruised last November and I was charged $12 a day for myself, my husband and our three kids. I personally feel like $12 a day is alot to charge for a 6 year old who is the third person in the room. With that being said, we paid it and even tipped extra to our cabin steward, which I did not expect to do before we sailed. He was that good!

 

Remember you are not paying $20 for your bed to be made. If you choose to eat at the buffet rather then the main dining room there is still staff bussing the tables, there are chef's preparing the food, there are dishwashers as well. In addition to the cabin steward there are the behind the scences people doing the laundry and so forth.

 

NCL is does have these charges posted their website and for our experience the service was top notch. Before my first cruise I complained about the upcoming descretionary charges, after sailing and receiving top notch service I not only booked another cruise for March, I plan on tipping extra once again if the service warrants it.

 

I wonder if the Washy Washy girls are a part of the tip pool? :D