No Gambling in Bermuda may prevent Breakaway sailings

[dwjoe]

I am cruising to Bermuda in late April on the Star but I feel this may be my last booking for the Bermuda itinerary. I really want to sail on the Breakaway but if Bermuda doesn't get on board with allowing the ships to gamble when in port, I will do the Caribbean ports instead.

I was initially puzzled about how caribbean itineraries would be any better since they mostly don't allow gambling while docked either.

 

Then I realized that caribbean itineraries don't usually port overnight, so the casino can be open most evenings there, unlike Bermuda sailings.

 

Anyways, something to consider if gambling is your thing.

[dread_pirate]

One of the reasons that Bermuda is an expensive island (and why new construction is so difficult) is that Bermuda has no natural source of fresh water. That's why they grow very little themselves. There are no rivers or fresh water lakes on Bermuda. Did you ever wonder why all the roofs in Bermuda are white, with ridges? It's not simply decorative. The white is lime, which helps purify the rain water for human consumption, non-potable fresh water uses like laundry and toilets, and irrigation purposes. The water runs down the lime roofs and is collected for each house/building.

 

Comparing Bermuda to the Bahamas is like comparing New York to Miami. Yes, Bermuda and the Bahamas are both islands or made up of islands. But that's where the similarity ends. Gambling is a huge industry and one of the largest money-makers in the Bahamas. But Bermuda has decided that it does not want gambling in its waters. That is its right. If they decided that Bermuda would be dry, so that no alcohol could be consumed shipboard, that would be its right as well. And those who didn't like the decision could vote with their pocketbooks and go elsewhere. But don't expect a nation to change its values to accommodate the occasional tourist. If they decide to do so, it will be because it is in Bermuda's best interests, not the cruise lines'.

 

And for those who would like to see other ports in addition to Bermuda on cruises, please note the distances. Bermuda is not in the Caribbean as are the Bahamas and other similar islands. It is in the Atlantic, off the coast of North Carolina. It is not close enough to any other port to allow for an additional stop, particularly not on a 7 day cruise.

 

For me, the ability to sail out of port near my home, avoiding airfare, compensates for a closed casino.

 

For some, it may not. That's fine. As you say, different strokes. It just means that you should sail elsewhere.

 

It's actually those who argue that Bermuda must allow gambling who don't believe in different strokes. They want what they want when they want it, and who cares what Bermudians want?

[emcelh]

And for those who would like to see other ports in addition to Bermuda on cruises, please note the distances. Bermuda is not in the Caribbean as are the Bahamas and other similar islands. It is in the Atlantic, off the coast of North Carolina. It is not close enough to any other port to allow for an additional stop, particularly not on a 7 day cruise.

 

quote]

 

Actually, there used to be cruises from NY that called at both Bermuda and Nassau (but ony 1 day at each port). I did this twice on the Oceanic over 30 years ago.

[che5904]

For some, it may not. That's fine. As you say, different strokes. It just means that you should sail elsewhere.

 

It's actually those who argue that Bermuda must allow gambling who don't believe in different strokes. They want what they want when they want it, and who cares what Bermudians want?

 

Actually it was me who used that line in response to what people enjoy to do in their evenings on the ship. No where did I indicate or argue that Bermuda must allow gambling.

[chrisc71]

I really don't think you could.

 

I understand your point though, and I mostly agree that it is not a cure-all. But honestly, speaking strictly about Bermuda....do you not agree with the premise that more people would want to go there if gambling was legal?

 

.

 

No I do not. Bermuda really does not have a tourism problem in that many people love going there despite no gambling. As I wrote I enjoy casinos but would not go to Bermuda because of a lack of them. I have cruised there and stayed on the island and enjoyed it both ways.

[chrisc71]

Chris:

 

Sorry if I gave the impression that I felt this would be "weird for NCL". Not my intent at all.

 

What I meant was that for a specific part of the crew/staff, this particular itinerary could (at least for a while) feel quite unique. New ship with a newly organized crew, and some/most of them might not have been accustomed to being on a 7-day sailing where their primary duty was out of Guest-active operation for approximately 64 consecutive hours. When compared to that previous initial transatlantic sailing, and the 7-nt Bahamas itinerary that follows, the Bermuda run could possibly (perhaps certainly) be viewed as different.

 

Yep, absolutely an industry standed for decades, no doubt. But it might not (initially) feel common to all.

 

I hope that clarifies my earlier post.

.

.

 

Yes it does.

 

And while I have not been on a cruise for a few years and taking one later this year. It is my recollection that store staff helps in shore excursions so they may not have a day off. I do not think they do that with casino personnel as the air of impropriety is there.

[Pikaia]

But honestly, speaking strictly about Bermuda....do you not agree with the premise that more people would want to go there if gambling was legal?

I believe Bermuda would attract more passengers arriving by air if they allowed casinos to operate in the country.

 

But cruisers? Nah. The ships already sail full, even in the shoulder season. Right now they're limited by the small number of berths for large ships.

[chrisc71]

Source?

 

Apparently, there are multiple politicians and reports who seem to feel that there is a connection:

 

http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20111125/NEWS01/711259926/0

 

And there are polls showing that it may be gaining popularity amongst the populace:

 

http://www.examiner.com/cruise-in-bowling-green/bermuda-citizens-say-let-ships-open-casinos

 

I do not use the casino, more than a brief passing, and it would be easier to just hand them ten dollars in nickels or quarters a couple of nights during a cruise. I honestly would not care if there was no casino. But I get that it is entertainment for many. If a ship closed, say, all swimming pools for a few days straight while in port, I think that might cause some to not take that cruise. If enough revenue is lost, it will cause a change in policy for either Bermuda, the cruise lines, or both.

 

Because politicians do not twist things to fit their agenda right?

 

And having stayed on the island in a hotel, when ships are not in port, I have gotten the feeling that many residents do not care for the ships or at least the size that call on the island now.

 

Again the casinos being closed in port has been that way for decades and the ships continue to sail close to capacity every year. Bermuda sailings also get a premium due to the short season. Also as others have posted there are about four days the casinos is open on the sailing. Four days when the ship is not in port and people can play all day if they desire. Believe the ship is making money.

[AceDoc]

Because politicians do not twist things to fit their agenda right?

 

And having stayed on the island in a hotel, when ships are not in port, I have gotten the feeling that many residents do not care for the ships or at least the size that call on the island now.

 

Again the casinos being closed in port has been that way for decades and the ships continue to sail close to capacity every year. Bermuda sailings also get a premium due to the short season. Also as others have posted there are about four days the casinos is open on the sailing. Four days when the ship is not in port and people can play all day if they desire. Believe the ship is making money.

 

That would make the politicians' agenda to go against the wishes of the people. That does not make much sense. I am only questioning the statements that the people do not want this, that there has been no impact (changes in the schedules of the lines), and that the policy is not going to change. And I am trying to present something beyond mere opinion regarding that. Is your opinion is that the politicians are going against the will of the people, and are using the press and the polls to mislead everyone? If so, that seems a bit far-fetched.

It appears, from what I am reading, that this subject is still being debated in Bermuda, and I would not be surprised if it does change.

Again, it doesn't matter to me either way. I would cruise there even if there were no casino on the ship. And I would spend my 40 dollars on lovely island trinkets. :-)

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

That would make the politicians' agenda to go against the wishes of the people. That does not make much sense. I am only questioning the statements that the people do not want this, that there has been no impact (changes in the schedules of the lines), and that the policy is not going to change. And I am trying to present something beyond mere opinion regarding that. Is your opinion is that the politicians are going against the will of the people, and are using the press and the polls to mislead everyone? If so, that seems a bit far-fetched.

It appears, from what I am reading, that this subject is still being debated in Bermuda, and I would not be surprised if it does change.

Again, it doesn't matter to me either way. I would cruise there even if there were no casino on the ship. And I would spend my 40 dollars on lovely island trinkets. :-)

 

Just as FYI, it has been "debated" since before we started sailing to Bermuda in 1992 and it will be "debated" until the end of time! In 2008 the old Club Med hotel was imploded to made room for time shares, the government is still trying to decide what to allow to be built there. In 2007 they demolished the old Sonesta Hotel, guess what, they are still debating what should be built there. We have sailed/flown to Bermuda at least twice a year since 1992, what is published and what actually happens are two VERY different stories. One more little piece, when NCL originally signed the contract with Bermuda for all these sailings, Bermuda government told NCL that they would do everything in their power to allow gambling while the ships where in port. NCL signed the contract and then the Bermuda government reneged on the deal, thus the reason it now takes 2 whole sea days to get to Bermuda.

[njhorseman]

Just as FYI, it has been "debated" since before we started sailing to Bermuda in 1992 and it will be "debated" until the end of time! In 2008 the old Club Med hotel was imploded to made room for time shares, the government is still trying to decide what to allow to be built there. In 2007 they demolished the old Sonesta Hotel, guess what, they are still debating what should be built there. We have sailed/flown to Bermuda at least twice a year since 1992, what is published and what actually happens are two VERY different stories. One more little piece, when NCL originally signed the contract with Bermuda for all these sailings, Bermuda government told NCL that they would do everything in their power to allow gambling while the ships where in port. NCL signed the contract and then the Bermuda government reneged on the deal, thus the reason it now takes 2 whole sea days to get to Bermuda.

 

Well...sort of. With two ships, one from NY and one from Boston, sharing one berth at Dockyard, it wouldn't be possible to do seven night cruises each leaving on a weekend (Friday - Sunday) from their home port without the type of schedule they're using that includes an extra sea day in one direction or the other.

[negc]

Its not about the gambling so much but more of the atmosphere. We pay good money to use the cruise ships amenities but when one of the major ones is not allowed for 3 of the 7 days, it is a loss.

 

My issue with Bermuda is most passengers are on the ship at night anyway. Bermuda is not loosing any of its tourist money. It is another venue for the passengers to hang out in, mingle and gamble if they like. If Bermuda allowed the casino to be open from 10:00 PM to 5:00 AM, what would be the harm.

 

I do like to play but there many times I enjoy just watching others play. Again, it is something that we pay for and is included in the cruise. It is easy to just take a different cruise to other ports but it is an issue that should be able to be addressed.

 

Your arguments have been made in legislative debates in Bermuda year after year to no avail. There is something of a love-hate relationship between Bermuda and the cruise ship industry with many residents of Bermuda who feel that cruise passengers' contributions to the island's economy are minimal when compared to the money spent by tourists who fly to Bermuda and stay at the land-based resorts and hotels, eat and drink in their restaurants and spend mucho bucks in their stores. So far the forces that oppose opening the ships' casinos while they are in port have succeeded in thwarting the efforts of others to repeal or amend the law. The Bermuda government couldn't deliver on their promise to get the law changed because of the strong opposition they encountered. I wouldn't say that they reneged, only that they weren't successful in their efforts and if the cruise line executives had any understanding of the situation they should have recognized the difficulty that the government faced and known that the promises might not be able to be kept.

NCL was not unaware of the restrictions imposed on them by the Bermudan government, before it signed those long term agreements so I have to conclude that they weighed the loss of casino revenue against all of the factors which made Bermuda an attractive location for their ships and passengers, and decided that the pros definitely outweighed the cons. I believe that their ships now leave port in the evening of their last day in Bermuda instead of staying for one additional overnight. In this way, they can recoup some of the losses while still providing their guests with a maximum amount of time on the island.

As long as they and the other lines which sail there continue to fill those ships and make a reasonable profit, you can expect things to continue as they have. Perhaps, at some point, the pro-cruise ship citizens on the island will be successful in changing the law but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Bermuda has so many things that attract travelers, that the lack of an open casino doesn't seem to bother enough people to make much difference in the numbers booking cruises.

[time2cruise1]

In the end I have to believe NCL really loses nothing by having the casino closed when you look at the $100,000 they save in fuel sitting docked for 3 days. In fact the 13 kts slow 2 day crawl down adds to the fuel savings rather then the 1.5 day speed run to FL.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - Jim

[che5904]

As long as they and the other lines which sail there continue to fill those ships and make a reasonable profit, you can expect things to continue as they have. Bermuda has so many things that attract travelers, that the lack of an open casino doesn't seem to bother enough people to make much difference in the numbers booking cruises.

 

In the end I have to believe NCL really loses nothing by having the casino closed when you look at the $100,000 they save in fuel sitting docked for 3 days. In fact the 13 kts slow 2 day crawl down adds to the fuel savings rather then the 1.5 day speed run to FL.

 

I agree that the ship is probably making up the losses from the casino in other ways. If a ship not having a casino was a huge deal to the cruise company ($$ wise) they certainly wouldn't have one sitting in Hawaiian waters year after year.

 

I think it's a shame they could not be successful in getting this rule in Bermuda changed. But it is what it is and to those that do enjoy this as nightly entertainment (as much as I understand that because I enjoy it as early morning entertainment), IMO there are tons of other itineraries to choose from and lucky for those who wish to sail the Breakaway and do like this as entertainment on board the Breakaway will be going to other destinations.

 

I praise NCL for their efforts (from what I've read they have continued to try).

[popsec]

Its pretty sad when someones vacation is effected because they can't gamble for a few days............maybe I just don't get it. Then again I drive by homeless ex gamblers a few times a week:D:rolleyes:

 

Just curious if you've stopped and chatted with the "homeless people" and they told you they were ex gamblers :confused:

[Vitality08]

Regarding casinos being closed in ports...I thought that if an NCL ship stays overnight in the Bahamas, it is allowed to open the casino. Is this not true? The Gem (and I think also the Jewel) just recently had overnight stays in Nassau due to repairs and/or weather....anyone who was on those ships...was the Casino open?

 

Anyway, weird, some people almost seem annoyed that there is a casino on the boat.

 

I was recently on Majesty of the Seas which stayed over night in Nassau and the casino was open at night.

[jaja]

I was recently on Majesty of the Seas which stayed over night in Nassau and the casino was open at night.

 

 

I believe that NCL and probably other lines as well has an arrangement with the Bahamas re: opening the casino while in port...