Why have a dress code and not enforce it?

[Rileyspike]

What I don't understand is why people don't self-regulate. I also don't get it when people aren't either smart enough or care enough to see when they fail to comply with the norm of those around them. IF you want casual, go casual on the correct ship. BUT...IF you want elegant and a more formal, traditional experience, pick the correct ship.

 

I have expectations that Cunard WILL be a step above the casual. I will not be disappointed ? Will I ?

 

From my experience of the QM2 ( transatlantic ) and the QE ( british isles ) everyone stuck to the dress code.

[capnpugwash]

I believe that the vast majority of passengers who choose Cunard want the dress codes enforced, I certainly do. But I have immense sympathy with the staff who are put in the postion where they have to enforce it, it isn't fair to them as it is only a small part of their function. Unfortunately it is the one area where they are forced into confronting paying passengers. I know that life isn't fair and I know that it is their job but all that I am saying is that we should cut them some slack.

[shinyshoes]

Reprise...

 

Oh the Dress Code, the Dress Code, A Cruiser’s best friend

If we didn’t have the Dress Code we’d come to a no-good end.

If we didn’t KNOW what we HAD to wear and how to tie our tie

We wouldn’t be able to curl our lip and look down on the other guy.

 

Oh the Dress Code, the Dress Code, such grand formality

If we didn’t have the dress code what would we wear for tea

If we didn’t have the correct attire in which to wrap our ass

We wouldn’t be able to curl our lip and look down on the other lass.

 

Oh the Dress Code, the Dress Code, the DJ black or white

If we didn’t have the dress code we’d never get it right

But when we’re right on a formal night we feel quite fabulous

But when we’re wrong THEY curl their lip and THEY look down on us!!

 

SS

[3rdGenCunarder]

I believe that the vast majority of passengers who choose Cunard want the dress codes enforced, I certainly do. But I have immense sympathy with the staff who are put in the postion where they have to enforce it, it isn't fair to them as it is only a small part of their function. Unfortunately it is the one area where they are forced into confronting paying passengers. I know that life isn't fair and I know that it is their job but all that I am saying is that we should cut them some slack.

 

It's a tough position for them, I agree. Sadly, many of the people who don't dress according to the dress code KNOW that they're not conforming, and they're very defensive. So the maitre d' will get blasted when he says "Excuse me sir/madam..." One poster on another board said that her husband had no intention of wearing a jacket to the MDR for formal night. She said he's well over 6 feet tall, and could be pretty intimidating when he wanted to be. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[travelberlin]

Another rule, which is not enforced at the Queen Mary 2, is that children are only allowed at the pool in company of their parents. During my crossing every day, they were children jumping on the pool, annoying swimmers. Nobody felt responsible for enforcing any rule.

[Slow Foxtrot]

Another rule, which is not enforced at the Queen Mary 2, is that children are only allowed at the pool in company of their parents. During my crossing every day, they were children jumping on the pool, annoying swimmers. Nobody felt responsible for enforcing any rule.

 

It's quite clear that in this day and age management is far less effective than it used to be, and in many cases it's virtually useless. Many managers no longer manage- they just appease. You can see this in all walks of life. Perhaps they all have one eye on litigation lest they offend somebody. But some rules do have to be enforced - such as with obstreperous passengers on aircraft for example.

On the face of it, the wearing of jackets in the dining rooms on formal nights may not seem a matter of great importance. But it matters to the thousands of people who pay considerable amounts of money to enjoy the formal cruise experience, as extensively advertised by Cunard. For this reason Cunard is under a distinct obligation to provide the ambiance for which people have paid.

Consequently it should not be beyond the whit of Cunard management to enforce the dress code. If certain passengers refuse to conform then they should not be served - they'll soon get the message. If an unpleasant altercation ensues then they should be ejected by the security staff 'pour encourager les autres'. Once this principle is seen to be established there should be no further problems.

[travelberlin]

It's quite clear that in this day and age management is far less effective than it used to be, and in many cases it's virtually useless. Many managers no longer manage- they just appease. You can see this in all walks of life. Perhaps they all have one eye on litigation lest they offend somebody. But some rules do have to be enforced - such as with obstreperous passengers on aircraft for example.

On the face of it, the wearing of jackets in the dining rooms on formal nights may not seem a matter of great importance. But it matters to the thousands of people who pay considerable amounts of money to enjoy the formal cruise experience, as extensively advertised by Cunard. For this reason Cunard is under a distinct obligation to provide the ambiance for which people have paid.

Consequently it should not be beyond the whit of Cunard management to enforce the dress code. If certain passengers refuse to conform then they should not be served - they'll soon get the message. If an unpleasant altercation ensues then they should be ejected by the security staff 'pour encourager les autres'. Once this principle is seen to be established there should be no further problems.

 

Well said:)

[phoebecat]

It's quite clear that in this day and age management is far less effective than it used to be, and in many cases it's virtually useless. Many managers no longer manage- they just appease. You can see this in all walks of life. Perhaps they all have one eye on litigation lest they offend somebody. But some rules do have to be enforced - such as with obstreperous passengers on aircraft for example.

On the face of it, the wearing of jackets in the dining rooms on formal nights may not seem a matter of great importance. But it matters to the thousands of people who pay considerable amounts of money to enjoy the formal cruise experience, as extensively advertised by Cunard. For this reason Cunard is under a distinct obligation to provide the ambiance for which people have paid.

Consequently it should not be beyond the whit of Cunard management to enforce the dress code. If certain passengers refuse to conform then they should not be served - they'll soon get the message. If an unpleasant altercation ensues then they should be ejected by the security staff 'pour encourager les autres'. Once this principle is seen to be established there should be no further problems.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. But after our tenth and final Cunard cruise in may this year we have give up on the brand. Dress code was not enforced, standards were slipping and clientele plainly didn't care less that they were on a formal cruise and we had paid a significant sum to experience such. When we didn't, hubby and I decided we would move to another cruise line and pay considerably less, knowing that we won't be paying for something we won't be getting ie the formal ambience that Cunard promises but increasingly fails to deliver. Incidentally we wrote to Peter shanks voicing our concerns in a polite and constructive letter. He hasn't had the good manners to reply, which tells you everything about carnival senior management, all about the revenue and nowt much else!

[bazzaw]

I've seen hooded zip-front sweatshirts - on women - at dinner in the Queens Grill and I was not amused.

 

 

Perhaps the Queens Grill is the problem?? We have just returned home from 32 nights total on the 3 Cunard ships and I didn't see a single person not in the correct attire for the night in the MDR. I wasn't actually looking for people not correctly attired either - so perhaps that could also have made a difference??

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

Actually, rethinking my last post - I now realise that most of the men were out of the correct dress code on the formal nights. Most were wearing pre-tied bowties. I do take notice of that :) very slack!!!! :rolleyes:

 

Barry

[sunshinesdad]

I wonder what would be the outcome if someone were to sue Cunard in the Small Claims Court (UK) - on the basis that their cruise experience suggested that Cunard had contravened the Trade Descriptions Act by not providing fully the "formal" environment advertised?

 

Certainly there would be much adverse publicity for Cunard

 

What does "Captain P" think?

 

D

[capnpugwash]

I wonder what would be the outcome if someone were to sue Cunard in the Small Claims Court (UK) - on the basis that their cruise experience suggested that Cunard had contravened the Trade Descriptions Act by not providing fully the "formal" environment advertised?

 

Certainly there would be much adverse publicity for Cunard

 

What does "Captain P" think?

 

D

 

I think that the Trade Description Act may not operate in International waters, maybe the offending passengers could be sued for bringing the cruise line into disrepute instead. I'm sure that there is a US lawyer somewhere just waiting for such a high profile case. :)

[Norfolk Brit]

I wonder what would be the outcome if someone were to sue Cunard in the Small Claims Court (UK) - on the basis that their cruise experience suggested that Cunard had contravened the Trade Descriptions Act by not providing fully the "formal" environment advertised?

D

 

One hopes that even in this utterly daft world, they would be told to run along and play.

 

Sir Martin

[Suzieanna]

Hi Helj That is a very valid point you raise, and I admit, not a situation I had actually thought of. I can see where you are coming from.

 

My husband is very very much against dressing up. He feels that he should be able to rock up in whatever he wants and just get his dinner.... he says "i'm on MY vacation", all that sort of stuff. But I am the exact opposite and am probably more likely to overdress. He will conform though - if only because I tell him to "assimilate or die"

 

Funny thing is though - one time when he thought I wasn't watching him I caught him checking himself out in the mirror doing the old James Bond thing!! - so maybe he is a secret tuxedo lover that just has yet to "come out"!

[Psychedout]

"Our of courtesy to your fellow passengers the dress code will be enforced" The above paragraph appears on the front page of every day's QM2 paper, but it appears that is not strictly enforced.

 

On the 2nd occasion of finding my self 'tied' up, as per the dress code of the day, I asked the Maitre D why many other gentleman were being allowed to dine without a tie? His reply was, that it was something that he wouldn't enforce, as it was down to his discretion, and he was happy with a shirt and jacket, sans-tie!

 

I'm in the camp where I don't really mind what the dress code is, but if there is one, you should adhere to it.

 

Has anybody else experienced or witnessed this?

 

Bruce we have been on 7 Cruises and there are always people who do not follow the dress code and the sfaff that do not enforce it.

 

One Formal night I saw a man sitting in the Dinning room having dinner with a wind breaker on:eek:. The Matitre D let him in, the man stuck out. What can one do? this subject has been beat to death IMHO and it will never change.

 

Hugh:cool:

[Norfolk Brit]

One Formal night I saw a man sitting in the Dinning room having dinner with a wind breaker on:eek:. The Matitre D let him in, the man stuck out. Hugh:cool:

 

Wow! He wore one of these on formal night? I should think he did stick out, what with all the poles and stuff.

 

Sir Martin

[3rdGenCunarder]

Wow! He wore one of these on formal night? I should think he did stick out, what with all the poles and stuff.

 

Sir Martin

 

Wrapped sarong-style, it might be quite fetching. Minus the poles, of course.

[Suzieanna]

Those horizontal stripes do nothing for my figure....!

[bazzaw]

The entire concept of "formal" is changing anyway - better get used to it as the demographics change

 

http://mistercrew.com/files/2009/12/ralph_lauren_winter_formal_wear.jpg

 

http://fashion.amillionlives.net/mens-formal-wear-stylish-outfits-for-the-professional-men.html

 

Barry

[Jim Avery]

The entire concept of "formal" is changing anyway - better get used to it as the demographics change

 

http://mistercrew.com/files/2009/12/ralph_lauren_winter_formal_wear.jpg

 

http://fashion.amillionlives.net/mens-formal-wear-stylish-outfits-for-the-professional-men.html

 

Barry

 

Formal wear was way strange in the '70s. I showed up in a burgundy velvet bell bottom "tux" with matching waistcoat and Bat tie. Pink ruffled shirt. 2 tone burgundy suede and cream patent leather shoes. :eek::eek: Oh yeah, and an Afro hair do.:eek: Thank God the pictures have been mislaid.:D

[bazzaw]

Thank God the pictures have been mislaid.:D

 

Jim

 

We KNOW that you still have them!!:D C'mon - 'fess up!!!

 

Actually, I still have a huge blue velvet bowtie from that era. Perhaps I should wear it next time I am on Cunard - so that the fashion police here are happy that I am dressed in "formal" attire :D Apparently it matters not what the so-called "formal" attire is - so long as it looks kind of, well, "formal" :D

 

Barry

[3rdGenCunarder]

The entire concept of "formal" is changing anyway - better get used to it as the demographics change

 

http://mistercrew.com/files/2009/12/ralph_lauren_winter_formal_wear.jpg

 

http://fashion.amillionlives.net/mens-formal-wear-stylish-outfits-for-the-professional-men.html

 

Barry

 

Barry, did you read beyond the first line of the article from "a million lives?" Because this article doesn't say that formal wear is on the way out. Quite the opposite:

 

"A fashionable formal wear for men would consist of a stylish formal shirt, trousers without pleats, elegant glam tuxedos etc."

 

And:

 

"The blazer chic and fashionable tuxedos add charm to the men. Single or double breasted blazers, blazers with different collar types add a touch of originality to the men’s wear. Ties and cravats cannot be forgotten, and they offer different charm every time they are worn differently."

 

And, best of all:

 

"Formal wear endows dignity and grace upon the wearer without fail. A man looks more handsome in formal attire as compared with the other dresses."

 

I do find the comment about "other dresses" odd, but perhaps the writer means other styles of dressing.

[eratog2]

Certainly with young people nowadays, they seem to enjoy dressing up - just look at all the prom photos, they are dressed up to the nines. Unfortunately we didn't have proms in the UK when I was leaving school, just the end of school disco, but nowadays, they go all out for it. And not just in the US, or the UK - my friend who lives in Australia has a daughter who has just had her prom and they were all so glamorous in their evening dresses - I think when the occasion calls for it, people love to dress up formally. :cool:

[Jim Avery]

Jim

 

We KNOW that you still have them!!:D C'mon - 'fess up!!!

 

Actually, I still have a huge blue velvet bowtie from that era. Perhaps I should wear it next time I am on Cunard - so that the fashion police here are happy that I am dressed in "formal" attire :D Apparently it matters not what the so-called "formal" attire is - so long as it looks kind of, well, "formal" :D

 

Barry

 

The blue tie sounds perfect. What a pair we would have been.:eek::D

[bazzaw]

I didn't say, or even imply, that dressing formally was on the way out. But I do have an issue with the use of the word "formal" here. There is almost no definition of just what "formal" means today - and I suspect that when people here use that word, they really mean "dressing up". "Dressing up" can mean many things - not just traditional Black Tie. On our VC cruise, we had a British couple who, on so-called "formal" nights, dressed in what I would describe as 1920'-30's US gangster/moll style. The sort of thing you would have worn to a Harlem nightclub of the day. He in a black and white gaudily striped suit - she in feather boas, etc. :p I would say that their dress was more "fancy costume" than anything to do with "formal" . But they looked great!! I will bet that there would be many here who would look down upon them (or perhaps sideways?? :))

 

Traditional Black tie is so stuffy - it is good to see that the young ones are giving it away.

 

Barry