Back to Back Cruises: Legal?

[fshagan]

We're considering taking the Pearl from LA to Vancouver on 5/5, then taking her for the Vancouver > Inside Passage > Glacier Bay > Seattle cruise on 5/12 (the same day she docks in Vancouver). We'll then fly back to LA from Seattle when she docks.

 

Are there any concerns about the Passenger Vessel Services Act or the Jones Act in doing this? There have been a few times we've been on ships where passengers with back to back cruises were summoned to the purser's desk for some kind of problem with booking that way.

[bob brown]

We're considering taking the Pearl from LA to Vancouver on 5/5, then taking her for the Vancouver > Inside Passage > Glacier Bay > Seattle cruise on 5/12 (the same day she docks in Vancouver). We'll then fly back to LA from Seattle when she docks.

 

Are there any concerns about the Passenger Vessel Services Act or the Jones Act in doing this? There have been a few times we've been on ships where passengers with back to back cruises were summoned to the purser's desk for some kind of problem with booking that way.

I would suggest you ask NCL, because it sounds like a problem to me. You are taking one foreign flagged ship (the Pearl), from one US port (Los Angeles), and ending your voyage at another US port (Seattle), even though on two separate (but back to back) cruises. The only way I could see to make it legal would be for you to end a day early, and debark at Victoria, and then make your way back to LA from there.

Edit: Or switch to a different ship from either Vancouver or Seattle for your Alaska cruise....

[fshagan]

I was afraid of that. Can you arrange to leave the ship a day early?

 

I suppose we could stay in Vancouver for one night and then take the Sun on the same itinerary on 5/13. Does taking a different ship circumvent the law?

[njhorseman]

Yes, your proposed itinerary on the Pearl would be a PVSA violation, but changing the second leg of the trip to the Sun makes it legal.

 

I'm not sure what your question about leaving the ship a day early means.

[tweakes]

I was afraid of that. Can you arrange to leave the ship a day early?

 

I suppose we could stay in Vancouver for one night and then take the Sun on the same itinerary on 5/13. Does taking a different ship circumvent the law?

 

I was trying to book a similar itinerary and was told that it was NOT allowed. We did have the option, however, of switching ships to circumvent the laws. In this case you will stay in Vancouver for one night and everything "starts over" with regards to those laws so there shouldn't be any problem.

 

My cruise consultant told me that they are given warnings on the screen when trying to book two back-to-back cruises that are not allowed so you should be able to just call and ask those specific questions.

 

(By the way, I think the Sun is a great ship!)

[bonvoyagie]

Just spending the night in Vancouver will elminate the PVSA infractions - so yes you could ride the Pearl from LA to Vancouver - overnight and take the Sun RT Vancouver the next day.

[bob brown]

I was afraid of that. Can you arrange to leave the ship a day early?

 

I suppose we could stay in Vancouver for one night and then take the Sun on the same itinerary on 5/13. Does taking a different ship circumvent the law?

 

Yes, your proposed itinerary on the Pearl would be a PVSA violation, but changing the second leg of the trip to the Sun makes it legal.

 

I'm not sure what your question about leaving the ship a day early means.

What he means about leaving the ship early, is what I suggested as another means to be legal....If he did the back-to-backs, as planned, but arranged in advance to end his cruise in Victoria, a day earlier than the cruise end in Seattle, he would also be in compliance with the law.

In such cases, the cruiseline rarely will give a reduced fare for giving up the last day.....So you pay for the entire cruise, plus the additional expense of taking alternate transportation from Victoira to Seattle....

[pyrrhus]

And if you don't disembark in Vancouver? Can the cruisline create a 14 day or whatever itinerary? Not asking if they would, only if that would be a way to skirt the issue?

[njhorseman]

And if you don't disembark in Vancouver? Can the cruisline create a 14 day or whatever itinerary? Not asking if they would, only if that would be a way to skirt the issue?

 

The essence of the PVSA is that foreign flagged ships can't transport a passenger from one US port to another US port without making a port call at what is known as a distant foreign port. Just making that itinerary into a single 14 day cruise does nothing to overcome the PVSA violation because the ship will not have called at a distant foreign port (the only distant foreign ports in North America, Central America and the Caribbean are the ABC islands...Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. No Canadian port is a distant foreign port.

[MilliesMom]

I agree with the others, you need an overnight stay in between the cruises for this to work.

 

Also even if OK ... getting from Vancouver to Seattle is a 3+ hours trip. If you ship is late for any reason coming into port, you may not make the connection in Seattle.

 

We had a cruise planned last year that was roundtrip from Seattle.

Then Seattle to Vancouver on board.

Overnight stay at a hotel in Vancouver.

Then boarding another ship from Vancouver to Los Angeles.

 

It was the only way we could legally do this.

[njhorseman]

I agree with the others, you need an overnight stay in between the cruises for this to work.

 

Also even if OK ... getting from Vancouver to Seattle is a 3+ hours trip. If you ship is late for any reason coming into port, you may not make the connection in Seattle.

 

We had a cruise planned last year that was roundtrip from Seattle.

Then Seattle to Vancouver on board.

Overnight stay at a hotel in Vancouver.

Then boarding another ship from Vancouver to Los Angeles.

 

It was the only way we could legally do this.

 

The key to making it a legal itinerary is the change of ships, not the overnight stay. If you can change to another ship the same day your ship arrives the voyage will not violate the PVSA.

[dwjoe]

What njhorseman said.

 

The PVSA restriction applies to the vessel, not the line.

[njhorseman]

What njhorseman said.

 

The PVSA restriction applies to the vessel, not the line.

 

And the reason the vessel is the key is (no surprise here) that is what the law says! Note the words "a vessel may not transport passengers":

 

§55103. Transportation of passengers

(a) In General.—Except as otherwise provided in this chapter or chapter 121 of this title, a vessel may not transport passengers between ports or places in the United States to which the coastwise laws apply, either directly or via a foreign port, unless the vessel—

(1) is wholly owned by citizens of the United States for purposes of engaging in the coastwise trade; and

(2) has been issued a certificate of documentation with a coastwise endorsement under chapter 121 or is exempt from documentation but would otherwise be eligible for such a certificate and endorsement.

 

(b) Penalty.—The penalty for violating subsection (a) is $300 for each passenger transported and landed.

(Pub. L. 109–304, §8©, Oct. 6, 2006, 120 Stat. 1633.)

[davesgirl51]

What njhorseman said but Cartagena, Colombia is also a foreign port.

[njhorseman]

What njhorseman said but

Cartagena, Colombia is also a foreign port

.

 

 

Not just a foreign port, but a distant foreign port. I did not mention it because it is in South America, not North America, Central America or the Caribbean. All ports in South America, and every other continent or location other than those I've named qualify as distant foreign ports.

[dwjoe]

I found this PVSA thread instructive.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1804348&highlight=pvsa

[bob brown]

And the reason the vessel is the key is (no surprise here) that is what the law says! Note the words "a vessel may not transport passengers":

 

§55103. Transportation of passengers

(a) In General.—Except as otherwise provided in this chapter or chapter 121 of this title, a vessel may not transport passengers between ports or places in the United States to which the coastwise laws apply, either directly or via a foreign port, unless the vessel—

(1) is wholly owned by citizens of the United States for purposes of engaging in the coastwise trade; and

(2) has been issued a certificate of documentation with a coastwise endorsement under chapter 121 or is exempt from documentation but would otherwise be eligible for such a certificate and endorsement.

 

(b) Penalty.—The penalty for violating subsection (a) is $300 for each passenger transported and landed.

(Pub. L. 109–304, §8©, Oct. 6, 2006, 120 Stat. 1633.)

This brings to mind the last option, which is to purposely violate the law and pay the fine, although I doubt that the cruiseline will allow that.....

[njhorseman]

This brings to mind the last option, which is to purposely violate the law and pay the fine, although I doubt that the cruiseline will allow that.....

 

Cruise lines do not allow you to do it, because if they did they could get into enough trouble with the authorities that they might lose their right to operate in the US.

[smeyer418]

Besides the fine, a cruise ship can be barred from entering any US port for a certain period if they flout this rule. So far this has never been done to any cruise line. I suspect but don't know that if a cruise line scheduled two ships to get around this and announced it, they may be sanctioned anyway. So unless two cruise lines arranged to schedule their various cruises I doubt that will be an issue.

A cruise ship visiting Cuba is barred from entering any US port for 6-9 months as an example.

[punkincc]

I hate to muddy the waters, but have you considered taking the Sun from LA to Vancouver instead of the Pearl? The Sun leaves on May 6, instead of 5th.

Sun LA to Vancouver 5-06 to 5-13

Sun Vancouver roundtrip 5-13 to 5-20

You would then stay on the same ship, and possibly same cabin.

 

This is not a PVSA violation as I had it booked.( and verified as OK by the upper brass at NCL.

 

You can easily get to Seattle after the cruise for your flight, either late the same day, or overnight in Seattle and fly home the next day.

[Sequim88]

alternate transportation from Victoria to Seattle....

 

Victoria Clipper would fill that bill.

http://www.clippervacations.com/ferry/

They take people to/from Victoria all the time on overnight tours so can handle luggage. Two bags free then $10ea for extras.

 

They also take a more scenic route than cruise ships headed to Seattle by going through Deception Pass and "inside" Whidbey Island. At tide change the water surges through the narrow passage under the bridge to the island.

[bob brown]

Victoria Clipper would fill that bill.

http://www.clippervacations.com/ferry/

They take people to/from Victoria all the time on overnight tours so can handle luggage. Two bags free then $10ea for extras.

 

They also take a more scenic route than cruise ships headed to Seattle by going through Deception Pass and "inside" Whidbey Island. At tide change the water surges through the narrow passage under the bridge to the island.

Great photo! I was on the Clipper years ago, but don't recall going that way....seems like it would be a lot slower than the more direct open route...is this something new, or was it a special tour type voyage?

[Sequim88]

It was their web site (acutally photo is from there) that said they do the pass. My guess is water is calmer inside the island. Downside is scenic view of Everett. ;) My oldest son worked for Clipper Vacations one summer I'll ask him.

 

Measured difference with GoogleEarth and got about 17 miles inside farther going between Camano Is. and Whidbey Is. Wondering if they just do it sometimes depending on tides and added thrill in the pass. As this link to a video demonstrates - horsepower required.

 

and this

 

Can't imagine they would go through at height of change - but at slack perhaps. Photo looks a lot calmer than the videos. :eek:

[daffodiliaz]

If NCL.com sells a 14-day Whittier-Vancouver roundtrip, why would that be legal and not LA-Vancouver-Seattle? Both would include Vancouver as the only foreign port.

[2inTul]

If NCL.com sells a 14-day Whittier-Vancouver roundtrip, why would that be legal and not LA-Vancouver-Seattle? Both would include Vancouver as the only foreign port.

 

Because it is a round trip from/to the same US port.