Viking Chateaux, Rivers & Wine

[notamermaid]

Dear Viking Travelers and Cruise Critic members,

 

We’d like to take the opportunity to hopefully clarify a couple of concerns regarding the current sailing in the Bordeaux region.

 

The April 6th sailing has indeed required multiple changes to the itinerary. For those members reporting that they have called Viking and been told otherwise, we can only apologize for the misinformation. After hearing about it here on Cruise Critic, we are working to make sure that all staff members are up-to-date.

 

Tidal influences and patterns of the current require us to create cruise schedules on this particular waterway that leave very little room for error. Anytime something unusual happens, the effect of that disruption tends to have an aggravated impact on the cruise schedule. Unfortunately the April 6th sailing has been met with not only water-related schedule alterations, but also a few other situations outside of our control.

 

While we’ve done our best to make sure that sites are not missed, we are in contact with the crew, following love2read’s posts — and we understand that guests are of course disappointed. All guests will hear from our Customer Relations team upon arriving home.

 

We do not anticipate that the next sailing will follow in the footsteps of this current one — similar to the fact that the previous itinerary was not like this one and 98% of guests on that sailing rated their overall trip to be Above or Far Above Expectations. What has occurred on this departure is truly unfortunate.

 

We hope that all of the future guests on FotoPeg’s list are looking forward to their trips. We encourage any Viking guest to contact us directly with questions, concerns, or feedback at TellUs@vikingcruises.com.

 

Sincerest regards,

Viking Cruises

 

Thank you Viking for taking the time to post here on cruise critic. I appreciate your efforts and sincerely hope the current problems will not put poeople off from visiting that beautiful part of France (from hearsay, I have not been there either, eager to go) on a river cruise.

 

notamermaid

[Stratheden]

I have just checked the Scenic website as I know they are starting Bordeaux River Cruises in 2015.

 

I found this clause at the end of the description of the itinerary.

 

"Please note: The Gironde, Dordogne and Garonne rivers are part of a tidal river system which results in changing water levels in the region. Every effort is made to keep the brochured itinerary however based on tides it may be amended or modified as required."

 

I don't know my way around any of the other cruise sites - perhaps someone more familiar with some of them could check if something similar exists elsewhere.

[editor@cruisecritic]

Hi, we're following this discussion very closely, and Bordeaux well may be one of a handful of rivers (we're also thinking about the Po) that can be quite challenging.

 

To set the record straight, CroisiEurope, a France-based river cruise line that generally operates older, smaller ships, is the only one to offer this itinerary until this year. So it's new for everyone.

 

Uniworld, which just started its first Bordeaux season this past week, is along with Viking River, the only new line to try the rivers/estuary.

 

Others, including Scenic and Vantage (thanks for posting the Scenic qualifier; it applies to any line, save for Croisi, operating in Bordeaux), will join the region in 2015. At this point it's still quite new and clearly kinks are being worked out. Here's a story I wrote a few weeks ago (was there for a couple of days, though not a full cruise: http://www.cruisecritic.com/blog/index.php/2014/03/21/destination-spotlight-river-cruising-comes-to-bordeaux/)

 

I'm looking forward to heading back to Bordeaux to try the real cruise (May 8 sailing, anybody else on it?) -- no matter how it shakes out and will keep you posted. At the moment, I'm also editing a piece on Viking's effort to create the itinerary, written by another Cruise Critic staffer, who trailed them around last fall. From the small bits I've seen and read -- this is an amazing part of the world to visit in spite of tidal challenges.

 

Stratheden, the Bay of Fundy in Canada has a similar sort of issue with vast tidal influences but of course the big ships don't have to deal with it cause it's more of a shore ex visit when visiting Halifax and the like. Can't think of any other place in the world that would fall into precisely this category; anybody know?

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn Spencer Brown

Editor in Chief

Cruise Critic

 

 

 

 

The tidal challenge may

I have just checked the Scenic website as I know they are starting Bordeaux River Cruises in 2015.

 

I found this clause at the end of the description of the itinerary.

 

"Please note: The Gironde, Dordogne and Garonne rivers are part of a tidal river system which results in changing water levels in the region. Every effort is made to keep the brochured itinerary however based on tides it may be amended or modified as required."

 

I don't know my way around any of the other cruise sites - perhaps someone more familiar with some of them could check if something similar exists elsewhere.

[roebud]

Was searching around for reviews and came across this one. Here's the link:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=252975

 

Rose

[Bet & Peg]

Hi Rose ~ just read the review UGH!!!!!! Thanks for finding it!!

 

I have a feeling that Viking might be rushing into too many ships with crews (i.e. chefs!) not properly trained!!! Add that to tidal/river problems and it equals a BIG disaster!!!

 

Hope they get their act together ASAP!!! I haven't mentioned a word to DH or our traveling companions - their 1st on Viking! And then there's a couple I hardly know going in November - they booked because she heard me raving about our past trips - double UGH!!!!

[love2read]

Just a final note before we leave. The staff was lovely at all times and very apologetic about the situation. At the same time Viking released their note to Cruise Critic and their email to their next passengers, they left a note of apology in our cabins and said someone would be in touch when we returned home.

The ship is very nicely designed. The cabins were comfortable but the expensive veranda on the starboard side was not usable most of the time. We thought the food was excellent.

The big problem is that this was supposed to be a river cruise. This is what we paid for and this is what we expected. Being docked for five of seven nights in Bordeaux does not match with the lovely Viking commercials of cruising down a scenic river. We spent way too much time on a bus and we skipped some excursions rather than sit on a bus for additional hours.

I hope the rest of you have better luck.

 

 

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[vcgeno]

OMG!!!! We are paying a kings ransom to go on this cruise and don't like our odds given the issue with the River. They should be more honest with you then this. I find it odd that no one talked about the wine and that also has me concerned. We were thinking of taking a Mediterranean Cruise and opted for this instead. We were looking forward to trying a river cruise. We may have made the wrong choice. I have to do some research on on the River in July and on their cancellation policy. In looking at the review for the first cruise, the experience on the second cruise, and the letter they are sending the passengers for the third cruise they are 0-3 in delivering what they promised. Not sure how many chances they should get. :(:(:(

[ninaks]

Maybe they will let you switch to Portraits of Southern France cruise if there is any availability. The reviews of that seem to be very good

[indianrider]

We are looking to hearing from yu soon and hope all is better for you. Good luck all!

[notamermaid]

Hello,

 

as regards that infamous bridge: part of a very large "development project of infrastructure" for the southwest of France the SNCF (French railways) they are building a new TGV line, i.e. high speed link. A vast bridge will span the Dordogne river. Huge building works going on! I could not ascertain if that is the bridge which caused problems on this river cruise.

 

Anyone fluent in French might find out more, info in German or English is a little sparse.

 

As CroisiEurope is online in French, German and English I checked their sites a little. The French site is very clear about what has been mentioned by Stratheden:

I have just checked the Scenic website as I know they are starting Bordeaux River Cruises in 2015.

 

I found this clause at the end of the description of the itinerary.

 

"Please note: The Gironde, Dordogne and Garonne rivers are part of a tidal river system which results in changing water levels in the region. Every effort is made to keep the brochured itinerary however based on tides it may be amended or modified as required."

 

I don't know my way around any of the other cruise sites - perhaps someone more familiar with some of them could check if something similar exists elsewhere.

 

So CroisiEurope says this: Quote from the page describing the cruise:

"Pour une organisation optimale de la croisière, l'organisation des excursions peut être modifiée en fonction de la marée.

Pour des raisons de sécurité de navigation, la compagnie et le capitaine du bateau sont selus juges pour modifier l'itinéraire de la croisière. Cette croisière est sous l'influence de la marée et les horaires d'arrivée aux escales peuvent être modifiés. L'ordre des visites peut être modifié. ... En fonction des disponibilités des embarcadères, l'escale de Libourne peut-être remplacée par celle de Bourg. L'ordre des visites peut être modifié. ..."

 

The company CrosiEurope makes it clear to the reader in bold letters that this cruise may be amended according to the tides.

 

"It is solely the company's and the captain of the ships' responsibility and judgement to change the itinerary. In accordance with the tides the arrival times at the ports of call may be changed. Depending on the availability of docking space the port of Libourne might be replaced with the port of Bourg."

 

The above is my humble translation.

 

So before booking this cruise French customers are made aware of the fact that they could end up with a different itinerary.

 

I have not been to that part of France, but I imagine it to be of a similar river and maritime situation as the Bristol channel in the UK.

 

For me I read this to be an area very different from the Rhine and Danube, as they are both not tidal where most of the river cruise itineraries sail (i.e. end and starting points Amsterdam and Budapest, respectively. The Danube still has along way to go after Hungary and the Rhine is actually two rivers in the Netherlands towards Rotterdam, the cruise ships leave the river before there, to go North to Amsterdam, very much regulated by locks and a canal system.

 

I hope I have been able to shed a bit of light on this cruise to that region.

 

notamermaid

[MABOAT]

I googled the tidal changes and from what I can gather the Spring Tides are the worst.

Here is one link

http://www.french-waterways.com/waterways/south-southwest/river-garonne.html

 

I emailed Viking and below is part of the message I sent. Maybe if more people email them they will respond to the concerns

 

If this ship is going to remain docked in Bordeaux instead of cruising to the other villages we would like to know if there is an alternate cruise we could switch to around this area for this week? Being bussed everywhere out of Bordeaux does not appeal to us at all. The itinerary already calls for enough nights in Bordeaux without adding any additional.

 

Once we board Viking Forsetti for our cruise, and at that time the scheduled itinerary can not be accomplished do we have the option of canceling our trip for a full refund?

 

I am greatly concerned that some the optional tours are so pricey. For example the tour to make your own cognac. I would love to just visit the town would there be available transportation just for that excursion? From what I'm told there is no easy way to travel independently in the small villages. Will viking arrange less expensive alternate options for tours?

 

TellUs@vikingcruises.com

 

The tour for Cognac is 179 Euro per person

Truffle Farm is 99 Euro

Chateaux Siuerac 79 euro

Arcachon Village. 159 euro

 

I hope I spelled those right

Edited April 12, 2014 by MABOAT

[tipsygirl]

I googled the tidal changes and from what I can gather the Spring Tides are the worst.

Here is one link

http://www.french-waterways.com/waterways/south-southwest/river-garonne.html

 

I emailed Viking and below is part of the message I sent. Maybe if more people email them they will respond to the concerns

 

If this ship is going to remain docked in Bordeaux instead of cruising to the other villages we would like to know if there is an alternate cruise we could switch to around this area for this week? Being bussed everywhere out of Bordeaux does not appeal to us at all. The itinerary already calls for enough nights in Bordeaux without adding any additional.

 

Once we board Viking Forsetti for our cruise, and at that time the scheduled itinerary can not be accomplished do we have the option of canceling our trip for a full refund?

 

I am greatly concerned that some the optional tours are so pricey. For example the tour to make your own cognac. I would love to just visit the town would there be available transportation just for that excursion? From what I'm told there is no easy way to travel independently in the small villages. Will viking arrange less expensive alternate options for tours?

 

TellUs@vikingcruises.com

 

The tour for Cognac is 179 Euro per person

Truffle Farm is 99 Euro

Chateaux Siuerac 79 euro

Arcachon Village. 159 euro

 

I hope I spelled those right

Just received our cruise documents yesterday for our April 26th departure.

I also emailed Viking earlier this week through the link included in the Viking posting on the roll call. I had a voice mail message Friday from a Customer Relations rep who stated she would call me back on Monday. Let's compare notes on what we hear.

My biggest concern at this point is getting reliable information from Viking and finding out what their plans are for alterations in the itinerary,and what would cause them to invoke these changes.

I am as unhappy as anyone regarding the possible/probably changes in my upcoming cruise. However, while it was not wise for Viking to operate as though this new itinerary had no potential problems, we need to keep in mind that it is still legally their right and responsibility to alter the itinerary as needed for the safety of the ship, crew, and passengers.

[MalibooNewYork]

I am following the discussion closely as we sail in May 24. My excitement is turning to dismay. I have a question about the optional tours. I was seriously thinking about the truffle tour but 6 hrs per day on a bus is beyond the pale for me. Does anyone know any little thing about the Arcachon tour? It is sooo expensive. Is it worth it? Pretty? Interesting?

Thanks to all who are posting. Your thoughts and comments are truly educational.

[MABOAT]

I hope to meet another two people on my sailing date to share the expense of a private tour guide. In addition to going to the seaside village I also am told not to miss Dune De Pilat

 

This is what I was told.....

I think it's a great idea to go to the Dune du Pilat and spend some time in Arcachon or Cap Ferret (right near the dune). It's more or less an hour away from Bordeaux by car. There are great boat tours that can be done there. We can also go and learn about local oyster farmers... and do tastings of course (with some dry white wine, fabulous!).

[tipsygirl]

I am following the discussion closely as we sail in May 24. My excitement is turning to dismay. I have a question about the optional tours. I was seriously thinking about the truffle tour but 6 hrs per day on a bus is beyond the pale for me. Does anyone know any little thing about the Arcachon tour? It is sooo expensive. Is it worth it? Pretty? Interesting?

Thanks to all who are posting. Your thoughts and comments are truly educational.

Haven't been to Arcachon myself, but have read that it is beautiful. The oysters and other seafood are part of its attraction. I believe you can take a train from Bordeaux to Arcachon and do your own thing inexpensively. Looks like line C of the city trolley system runs along the river from a stop near our dock to the train station. Should be able to find some more specific information online about times of travel. If you go to the Bordeaux Tourist Office website you can find a map with the trolley lines marked, and probably more info on Arcachon.

As foodies we are planning on going on the market tour the same day as the Arcachon trip. Checked the price against local guides in Bordeaux and it is in line with their costs.

[MABOAT]

This is pricing I was given for all day tour guide depending on 2 or 4 people

 

 

Depending on the itinerary and the options, pricing will start around 230€/person on a base of 2;

160€/person on a base of 4;

these prices include transportation and a bilingual local guide with you all day (me!).

If we spend the day in the city and don't need transportation the price will be much lower.

[ChesapeakeSailor]

Just received our cruise documents yesterday for our April 26th departure.

I also emailed Viking earlier this week through the link included in the Viking posting on the roll call. I had a voice mail message Friday from a Customer Relations rep who stated she would call me back on Monday. Let's compare notes on what we hear.

My biggest concern at this point is getting reliable information from Viking and finding out what their plans are for alterations in the itinerary,and what would cause them to invoke these changes.

I am as unhappy as anyone regarding the possible/probably changes in my upcoming cruise. However, while it was not wise for Viking to operate as though this new itinerary had no potential problems, we need to keep in mind that it is still legally their right and responsibility to alter the itinerary as needed for the safety of the ship, crew, and passengers.

 

After not receiving a reply to an e-mail, I called Viking"s Customer Service. They now have a special extension set aside for questions about this trip. The phone is 1 (877) 668-4546 extension 4525.

 

I learned that the recent problem at Blaye was that an ocean going ship unexpectedly had a delayed departure and therefore there was no room in the port, and that there had also been an accident on the water that prevented the boat from using the alternative landing nearby at Bourg. They expect to be able to cruise to and from Blaye now, and even if that's not possible for some reason Bourg is a nearby alternative.

 

They also mentioned that there is indeed a problem with the water being too high and the bridge too low on the way to Cadillac. This will prevent them from docking there until about mid-May. They mentioned, however, that the bus ride from Bordeaux to Cadillac is only about 45 minutes, and so apparently it would not have been a long cruise there anyway. They may be giving optional tours for free depending on the situation to compensate for changes in scheduling.

 

So it appears we would wind up being in Bordeaux for 4 nights instead of 3, but should be able to do everything at Blaye including the Citadel, and everything as expected at Cadillac.

 

It will be interesting to hear what you are told and the feedback from GoPack.

You have done some great research on touring independently!

[notamermaid]

Carolyn editor@cruisecritic wrote:

 

"To set the record straight, CroisiEurope, a France-based river cruise line that generally operates older, smaller ships, is the only one to offer this itinerary until this year. So it's new for everyone."

 

So I looked this up:

 

CroisiEurope operates two ships around Bordeaux, Viking one. The dimensions are

 

Viking Forseti built in 2013: 135 m, 11.45 m, 2.00 draught

 

CroisiEurope Princesse d' Aquitaine built in 2001: 110 m, 11.40 m, draught not known to me

 

CroisiEurope Cyrano de Bergerac built in 2013: 110 m, 11.40 m, draught 1.60 m.

 

notamermaid

Edited April 12, 2014 by notamermaid

[tipsygirl]

After not receiving a reply to an e-mail, I called Viking"s Customer Service. They now have a special extension set aside for questions about this trip. The phone is 1 (877) 668-4546 extension 4525.

 

I learned that the recent problem at Blaye was that an ocean going ship unexpectedly had a delayed departure and therefore there was no room in the port, and that there had also been an accident on the water that prevented the boat from using the alternative landing nearby at Bourg. They expect to be able to cruise to and from Blaye now, and even if that's not possible for some reason Bourg is a nearby alternative.

 

They also mentioned that there is indeed a problem with the water being too high and the bridge too low on the way to Cadillac. This will prevent them from docking there until about mid-May. They mentioned, however, that the bus ride from Bordeaux to Cadillac is only about 45 minutes, and so apparently it would not have been a long cruise there anyway. They may be giving optional tours for free depending on the situation to compensate for changes in scheduling.

 

So it appears we would wind up being in Bordeaux for 4 nights instead of 3, but should be able to do everything at Blaye including the Citadel, and everything as expected at Cadillac.

 

It will be interesting to hear what you are told and the feedback from GoPack.

You have done some great research on touring independently!

Chesapeake Sailor,

Thank you very much for sharing this information. I expect this is what I will hear from Steffy when she returns my call on Monday. The number given to you is the same number she left for me in the event I wanted to initiate the next contact.

This set of events, while regrettable for the passengers onboard, is certainly a reasonable explanation of the itinerary changes. Why Viking either chose to keep this situation to themselves, or just did not keep their Customer Service people in the loop, is a mystery to me. Much angst and mistrust of future communications could have been avoided if this information had been provided to the passengers on this cruise and those of us who contacted Viking earlier in the week.

I can live with 4 nights docked in Bordeaux and a 45 minute bus trip if we will be able to enjoy Blaye and Cadillac. I anticipate having a lot of attention made to keeping future cruisers on this itinerary both happy and informed.

 

Perhaps we can make connection on our cruise.

Are you spending any time in Bordeaux in advance of embarkation?

[smokinmike]

Thank you to tipsygirl and Chesapeake Sailor for relaying pertinent information from your contact with Viking. I hope the cruisers who will be boarding shortly will take some comfort. It was truly unfortunate about the late departure of the ship in Blaye which resulted in a missed opportunity for last week's cruisers.

 

Thanks again for the posts.

 

 

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[saltwaterpioneer]

I have been lurking watching this post closely as my wife and I were scheduled to sail in August. I still have time to cancel and I think we will. The itinerary has optional tours that are incredibly expensive and the places that we are going that are free are not very interesting. I have a friend who lives in Bordeaux and he called me and told me that the reason no one has been using the river for cruises is that it has bad tides every day all year long! I have decided to call Viking tomorrow and cancel our cruise. I guess I should have talked to him before I booked the cruise but after doing so, he called me to warn me. He said that area is awful.

He said to watch a movie called: "Little White Lies". That movie was made at Bordeaux and shows people on boats getting stuck in the mud that is so characteristic of the area estuaries and rivers. He said everyone who lives there, knows you can't cruise the rivers very well and he thought Viking did not do it homework. All I can say is I have been scared away from this area and will try to cruise somewhere else.

Best wishes to all

[nana541]

I have been lurking watching this post closely as my wife and I were scheduled to sail in August. I still have time to cancel and I think we will. The itinerary has optional tours that are incredibly expensive and the places that we are going that are free are not very interesting. I have a friend who lives in Bordeaux and he called me and told me that the reason no one has been using the river for cruises is that it has bad tides every day all year long! I have decided to call Viking tomorrow and cancel our cruise. I guess I should have talked to him before I booked the cruise but after doing so, he called me to warn me. He said that area is awful.

 

He said to watch a movie called: "Little White Lies". That movie was made at Bordeaux and shows people on boats getting stuck in the mud that is so characteristic of the area estuaries and rivers. He said everyone who lives there, knows you can't cruise the rivers very well and he thought Viking did not do it homework. All I can say is I have been scared away from this area and will try to cruise somewhere else.

 

Best wishes to all

 

 

Very interesting! Thanks for the comment.

M

 

 

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[notamermaid]

Hello,

 

On the Viking website if you select "Your Trip", then under the heading Already Booked select Itinerary and Departure Information. In this section the full cruise booklet that includes an expanded itinerary for each of the Viking cruises is listed. Chateaux, Rivers, & Wine - Bordeaux to Bordeaux now appears as the first listing under 2014 Europe Itineraries. Click this title and you can see the full 42 page booklet. And as was mentioned by FotoPeg, the cost of the optional tours is slightly higher for upcoming cruises.

 

Thank you tipsygirl for the info.

 

As it has been some eventful days and posts since yours, I would just like to provide the link to the booklet you mentioned. The data is correct as of 19 March 2014 there, it says. Note the phrase starting with: "Please note: Depending on tidal conditions, your ship may return ..."

 

http://wpc.475d.edgecastcdn.net/00475D/passenger_documentation/2014/14CHARIVBOD_Bordeaux%20BOR-BOR.pdf

 

I hope the link works.

 

By the way, the cruises I have seen offered on the other ships from the other company cruising the Dordogne, Garonne and Gironde so far, are no longer than 5/6 nights. I get the feeling one just cannot fill more than 5 days with sailing without seeing things twice...

 

Cognac according to the map is a 90 minute car ride (scenic route) one way. Such a trip is not on any itinerary save Viking's.

 

notamermaid

[loge23]

I have been lurking watching this post closely as my wife and I were scheduled to sail in August. I still have time to cancel and I think we will. The itinerary has optional tours that are incredibly expensive and the places that we are going that are free are not very interesting. I have a friend who lives in Bordeaux and he called me and told me that the reason no one has been using the river for cruises is that it has bad tides every day all year long! I have decided to call Viking tomorrow and cancel our cruise. I guess I should have talked to him before I booked the cruise but after doing so, he called me to warn me. He said that area is awful.

He said to watch a movie called: "Little White Lies". That movie was made at Bordeaux and shows people on boats getting stuck in the mud that is so characteristic of the area estuaries and rivers. He said everyone who lives there, knows you can't cruise the rivers very well and he thought Viking did not do it homework. All I can say is I have been scared away from this area and will try to cruise somewhere else.

Best wishes to all

 

Have to admit, we are thinking the same thing. Having visited the area last year, we were looking forward to returning and seeing places we did not get to, with the convenience of being on Viking for the transfers and transport (we traveled indy last year). We are meeting friends from GB - that we met on a Viking cruise several years ago - in Paris for a brief reunion prior to the cruise, so our options are many. As has been pointed out on this thread, we knew and understood the limited cruising range of this itinerary; but we have no desire to sit on buses for hours.

Should be a good think-over this week.

[marazul]

I think it is crazy to do a river cruise in the Bordeaux area. This is an area made for a land tour. The Dordogne, just a couple of hours East, is one of the most beautiful areas in France and should not be missed. If you don't feel like traveling on your own, look for tours of this area. There are many university alumni associations that offer this itinerary for their alumni tours. Most are based in Sarlat-le-Caneda for a few days and begin or end with a couple of days in Bordeaux where you can visit St-Emilion, the Medoc area, etc...

I'm a fan of cruising, but not everywhere is the right place for a cruise.