Carnival sues BAE Systems

[vols_159]

it is the way of sueing theses days ,, sue everyone even if they are innocent,, there is no common sense there days... it is all about chasing the buck

 

hmm and i wonder why my insurance premiums are so high,, the only ones making any money are the lawyers.

 

 

Been there done that ,,, sued because someone ran a stop sign smashed into us and we were the ones being sued for 10 million.. the law suit hung over our head for 6 1/2 years.. call me bitter ... our lawyer bill was 1/4 million, they got nothing :D and they got to pay thier own lawyer bill.. which made me really really happy.

 

we did considering counter sueing but that would make us no better than them

 

oh we did have to pay a $500 fine in the state of NY for driving a damaged truck through thier state even with a accident report... ... :eek:

 

i hope Carnival pays nothing, this was a freak accident and just someone tell me how they were at fault here ..

 

Did you have to pay the lawyer bill or did they ?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[vols_159]

it is the way of sueing theses days ,, sue everyone even if they are innocent,, there is no common sense there days... it is all about chasing the buck

 

hmm and i wonder why my insurance premiums are so high,, the only ones making any money are the lawyers.

 

 

Been there done that ,,, sued because someone ran a stop sign smashed into us and we were the ones being sued for 10 million.. the law suit hung over our head for 6 1/2 years.. call me bitter ... our lawyer bill was 1/4 million, they got nothing :D and they got to pay thier own lawyer bill.. which made me really really happy.

 

we did considering counter sueing but that would make us no better than them

 

oh we did have to pay a $500 fine in the state of NY for driving a damaged truck through thier state even with a accident report... ... :eek:

 

i hope Carnival pays nothing, this was a freak accident and just someone tell me how they were at fault here ..

 

I do have one better my uncles wife killed him and her son while awaiting court she committed suicide her family sued my family wanting my uncles life insurance policy....

 

They lost

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[EZ4]

I do have one better my uncles wife killed him and her son while awaiting court she committed suicide her family sued my family wanting my uncles life insurance policy....

 

They lost

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

Wow!!!

[what to go here and there]

Did you have to pay the lawyer bill or did they ?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

 

our insurance company covered our lawyers fees, but we did not cover thiers they had to pay thier own lawyer fees.. :D

[chengkp75]

I don't see how Carnival could be responsible. The bollards on the pier broke loose. That's a shipyard issue.

 

The only time a shipyard takes over responsibility for a ship is when it crosses the door of a drydock. Since the Triumph was in the water, at what we call a "wet berth" or "lay berth", it is the shipowner's responsibility to have the vessel adequately manned and equipped (even if it was a completely burned out hulk, they would have been required to have tugs available for emergencies) to ensure the vessel does not become a hazard to navigation. Carnival may get a small settlement from BAE, but I don't believe they will get 12mil. Carnival damaged the drydock at BAE (I saw it just a couple days later), and nearly sank a tanker that was on that drydock with her propeller shaft pulled out. They will have to pay for damage to any ships. The suits against Carnival by the BAE employee and the widow have no merit.

[EZ4]

The only time a shipyard takes over responsibility for a ship is when it crosses the door of a drydock. Since the Triumph was in the water, at what we call a "wet berth" or "lay berth", it is the shipowner's responsibility to have the vessel adequately manned and equipped (even if it was a completely burned out hulk, they would have been required to have tugs available for emergencies) to ensure the vessel does not become a hazard to navigation. Carnival may get a small settlement from BAE, but I don't believe they will get 12mil. Carnival damaged the drydock at BAE (I saw it just a couple days later), and nearly sank a tanker that was on that drydock with her propeller shaft pulled out. They will have to pay for damage to any ships. The suits against Carnival by the BAE employee and the widow have no merit.

 

The Triumph hit the bow of that tanker and that's how it got that gash in the side. The Army Corp dredge that it hit had just wrapped up a 6 month refurb at Signal across the river from BAE.

[Sh1035]

So my car breaks down on the highway and gets towed to shop

 

Big wind knocks my car off a rack that was defective.

 

Some guy on a ladder 50 feet away gets blown down off his ladder while painting and dies.

 

My car lands and bumps the car next to me

 

 

Who's liable???? Me??? Garage???? Or the lawyers????

[EZ4]

So my car breaks down on the highway and gets towed to shop

 

Big wind knocks my car off a rack that was defective.

 

Some guy on a ladder 50 feet away gets blown down off his ladder while painting and dies.

 

My car lands and bumps the car next to me

 

 

Who's liable???? Me??? Garage???? Or the lawyers????

 

2 words. Maritime law. Quirky stuff that doesn't always make sense. Lawyers are loving this.

[mikefox2hotmail.com]

2 words. Maritime law. Quirky stuff that doesn't always make sense. Lawyers are loving this.

HATE this response but it is by far the best one on this thread!

[fireofficer5]

Where are all the, "any lawsuit is a bad lawsuit" crowd.

Oh, ccl is the plantiff this time, and ccl can do no wrong.

 

swigs.:rolleyes:

[Keel Haul]

So my car breaks down on the highway and gets towed to shop

 

Big wind knocks my car off a rack that was defective.

 

Some guy on a ladder 50 feet away gets blown down off his ladder while painting and dies.

 

My car lands and bumps the car next to me

 

 

Who's liable???? Me??? Garage???? Or the lawyers????

an insurance company.

[Aplmac]

HATE this response but it is by far the best one on this thread!

If you hate this response, then maybe something needs to be done

to update quirky (antiquated?) Maritime Law?

 

.

[MickCruiser]

... it is all about chasing the buck..

 

So true. I cherish the days when TV and radio air waves were free of legal service ads. Now it truly is about chasing the buck.

 

CCL is reacting to her suit which is apparently baseless to begin with. But since she filed against CCL, CCL named her as any company or person would do in a similar situation, even you if you were wrongfully sued. In fact, CCL is going to save some coin by rolling her into their action with BAE (vs fighting on two fronts) and demonstrate that CCL is not responsible for the person's death while probably settling with BAE.

 

There are a many attorneys out there who are and do good. But agree as with most things in life... You have to take some bad with the good.

[vols_159]

If you hate this response, then maybe something needs to be done

to update quirky (antiquated?) Maritime Law?

 

.

 

I though maritime law applied only in international waters?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[chengkp75]

I though maritime law applied only in international waters?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

There is international maritime law, set by the UN through the IMO, but the US has its own subset of laws that apply only to maritime issues. The issue is clouded by the fact that US law is based on legislation as well as or more by legal precedent. So if a very old precedent can be shown to not have been refuted in a newer decision, some laws from the 1700's will apply.

[CatlinSTJ]

The article states that Carnival "is seeking a declaratory judgment that the company is not responsible for damages" and well as the monetary settlement for the damages that the ship incurred. If you read the link for John "Buster" Johnson, the family blamed the ship for crashing into the guard shack for his death. I can't find anything specific about the lawsuit filed by his widow, but it's probably safe to assume that was the basis of her suit against Carnival and that they are naming her in their lawsuit stating that the cause of the accident was bad rigging, and not Carnival's fault. If they win, she can't sue them and others that suffered damage when the ship broke free can't sue them. It makes sense and doesn't make them scum.

[sr30sb]

The only time a shipyard takes over responsibility for a ship is when it crosses the door of a drydock. Since the Triumph was in the water, at what we call a "wet berth" or "lay berth", it is the shipowner's responsibility to have the vessel adequately manned and equipped (even if it was a completely burned out hulk, they would have been required to have tugs available for emergencies) to ensure the vessel does not become a hazard to navigation. Carnival may get a small settlement from BAE, but I don't believe they will get 12mil. Carnival damaged the drydock at BAE (I saw it just a couple days later), and nearly sank a tanker that was on that drydock with her propeller shaft pulled out. They will have to pay for damage to any ships. The suits against Carnival by the BAE employee and the widow have no merit.

 

That is correct UNLESS the bollards were in disarray and not good working order. BAE would be liable due to NEGLIGENCE. There are no provisions to hold one's self (or company)accountable for another's negligence.

[sr30sb]

2 words. Maritime law. Quirky stuff that doesn't always make sense. Lawyers are loving this.

 

I don't believe Maritime Law applies to inland waterways...but I may be wrong

[sonicbuffalo]

when the dust settles, what we must also consider is that Carnival is probably self insured into the millions...so it has to defend itself legally.

[Aplmac]

That is correct UNLESS the bollards were in disarray and not good working order.

I find myself wondering how bollards can be in poor condition. :eek:

 

They are usually ruddy great chunks of cast iron/steel

no doubt sunk well into the dock when it was being built

probably a good six to ten feet into the concrete!

 

After all, they've got to hold SHIPS in place!

 

They get repainted once a year or so.

I look at such things on docks I visit. Ropes too.

 

I'm yet to see a bollard implantation that could get torn out!

I'm still thinking that ropes pop before bollards "fail"!

IF bollards fail, how often do they fail??

 

If the bollards were as cheesey as these ones on the Havensight dock in St.Thomas

..then maybe if rusty, yes they could get popped off

but most bollards I've come across

are a bit more substantial than these 'things' in the photo

 

.

[sr30sb]

I find myself wondering how bollards can be in poor condition. :eek:

 

They are usually ruddy great chunks of cast iron/steel

no doubt sunk well into the dock when it was being built

probably a good six to ten feet into the concrete!

 

After all, they've got to hold SHIPS in place!

 

They get repainted once a year or so.

I look at such things on docks I visit. Ropes too.

 

I'm yet to see a bollard implantation that could get torn out!

I'm still thinking that ropes pop before bollards "fail"!

IF bollards fail, how often do they fail??

 

If the bollards were as cheesy as these on the Havensight dock in St.Thomas

 

..then maybe if rusty, yes they could get popped off

but most bollards are a bit more substantial than these 'things' in the photo

 

.

 

I agree 100% with your theory on the dock lines snapping versus the bollards having an issue but it was reported that the bollards failed. So I based my opinion on the information provided.

 

If the lines broke CCL may be in deep doo doo

[lady_cruiser]

Quote:

The suit names BAE Systems SSY Alabama Property Holdings, BAE Systems Southeast Shipyards Alabama LLC, Signal Ship Repair LLC, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and two individuals: Bernadette W. Johnson, the widow of BAE employee John “Buster” Johnson who was swept into the water and drowned as a result of the same wind gusts; and Jason Alexander another BAE employee.

 

Which just proves that Carnival lawyers are slime beneath pond scum.

That is not fair to put the "slime beneath pond scum" in the same category as these lawyers. After all the slime doesn't know any better where lawyers, who should be human, should know better than to go after a widow.

[EZ4]

$12M is pocket change to BAE, but I'm sure that they won't give it up without a fight. This will definitely be interesting to watch two huge corporations go toe to toe. I'm interested in the Army Corps reaction to this suit, too. Nothing like a bunch of deep pocketed organizations in a cat fight. I actually see Carnival as the small fry in this case.

[CoconutJD]

That is not fair to put the "slime beneath pond scum" in the same category as these lawyers. After all the slime doesn't know any better where lawyers, who should be human, should know better than to go after a widow.

The widow is only named in the lawsuit because she sued Carnival first, and Carnival is asking for the court to declare they are not liable for her husband's death or any of the other damage that happened that day.

 

Edit: The Army Corps is named in the same manner. They had a boat or some equipment damaged that day, and Carnival wants the court to declare that Carnival isn't liable for the damages. Carnival is NOT going after the widow or the Army Corps for monetary damages.

[near the beach]

If BAE could not hold down the guard shack how could they hold down a 900 foot long cruise ship?