Electronic Cigarettes....are they allowed anywhere on the ship?

[RDC1]

I linked to it, right below their post. It was actually 5 people though. No matter, 5, 9 or 50, e-cigs are far less dangerous than regular ones. For that matter, they're safer than the air we all breath daily.

 

Nope you linked to a different study. They may be safer then regular cigs, but not better then air that is not impacted by e-cigs.

 

Go to PubMed at NIH and do a search on e-cig toxicity. The two biggest concerns are micro particulates and the lack of controls on the liquids used. Micro particulates are about 80% lower than with regular cigarettes, but still in the unhealthful range in a fully ventilated room. The lack of control over the liquids, especially those coming from China, is a concern simply due to potential introduction of who knows what into the liquids. Compounds that are by themself, not toxic, can have negative impact on lung tissue over time.

[RDC1]

Which study? I can't find any evidence of this study you are discussing.

 

posted the abstract in response to another post. It is from the NIH pubmed database.

 

Bottom line that they are much better then regular cigarettes. Probably fine outdoors as far as second hand impact. Still enough to negatively impact if used indoors, even in a fully ventilated space. This assumes that the liguid is of high quality.

[nomad098]

posted the abstract in response to another post. It is from the NIH pubmed database.

 

Bottom line that they are much better then regular cigarettes. Probably fine outdoors as far as second hand impact. Still enough to negatively impact if used indoors, even in a fully ventilated space. This assumes that the liguid is of high quality.

 

The problem with the abstract you posted is that it does not put the information in to context

 

Here is a well written article that explains the process the scientists used

 

Also tables showing the results including the safety margins compared to occupational exposure levels set by US and Polish governments

 

You have got to click start at the top of the page to get the tables

 

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/12776603-latest-studies-confirm-ecigarette-vapor-safety

[DMH15]

I see NCL UK and NCL EU have no restrictions posted on the websites in regards e-cig's

 

 

 

Last year on the Epic in the Med I could used my e-cig no problem in the bars

 

 

 

I was asked by several members of staff if I found it effective and which brand I was using as NCL allowed them to use e-cig's in their rooms

 

 

 

The debate here in the UK has changed in regards to e-cig's, when those that wanted them banned could not prove they were harmful and the medical experts said that though the long term effects had not been studied but based on what they did know e-cig's where preferable to smoking, they moved the goal posts. Now the argument is e-cig's glamorise the act of smoking to kids and therefore should be banned in public places

 

 

 

It has been pointed out in the UK that some of the organisations behind the push to ban/restrict e-cig's have a vested interest in the revenue raised from tobacco sales or the sales of alternative cessation products.

 

 

 

I have no problem in being restricted in were I can use my e-cig's but I think restricting there use to smoking areas of the ship is wrong

 

 

 

 

I believe last year anyone could smoke anything legal in their room.

 

 

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[RDC1]

The problem with the abstract you posted is that it does not put the information in to context

 

Here is a well written article that explains the process the scientists used

 

Also tables showing the results including the safety margins compared to occupational exposure levels set by US and Polish governments

 

You have got to click start at the top of the page to get the tables

 

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/12776603-latest-studies-confirm-ecigarette-vapor-safety

 

The study you referenced deals with VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds), not micro particulates. The abstract from the study I posted does show the measured results with PM2.5.

 

PM2.5 (mean 197μg/m3)

 

PM2.5 is of interest because that particulate size penetrates deeply into the lung.

 

From the EPA website

 

"Particles less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter (PM2.5) are referred to as "fine" particles and are believed to pose the largest health risks. Because of their small size (less than one-seventh the average width of a human hair), fine particles can lodge deeply into the lungs.

 

Health studies have shown a significant association between exposure to fine particles and premature mortality. Other important effects include aggravation of respiratory and cardiovascular disease (as indicated by increased hospital admissions, emergency room visits, absences from school or work, and restricted activity days), lung disease, decreased lung function, asthma attacks, and certain cardiovascular problems such as heart attacks and cardiac arrhythmia. Individuals particularly sensitive to fine particle exposure include older adults, people with heart and lung disease, and children."

 

 

There is currently work going on at the EPA to set the 24 hour exposure limit for PM2.5 to 35μg/m3. About 1/6 the level identified in the study.

[nomad098]

I believe last year anyone could smoke anything legal in their room.

 

 

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You were not allowed to smoke in the stateroom last year

 

Here's what the present information says

 

Can I smoke on board?

We want you to be comfortable on board, so most public areas throughout all Norwegian Cruise Line ships are smoke free. However if you do smoke cigarettes, pipes or cigars please don’t worry, there are plenty of areas of the ship that you can still smoke. Please see below for further details:

As of 1 January 2012 guests setting sail on a Norwegian cruise holiday will no longer be permitted to smoke in their staterooms. Guests who are in a balcony stateroom will be permitted to smoke cigarettes on the outside balcony; however, cigar and pipe smoking on balconies is prohibited. Ashtrays will be available for use upon request through housekeeping staff. Any guest that does smoke in their staterooms will be charged a cleaning fee of $250.00 per stateroom.

In an effort to diminish the presence of smoke indoors, cigarette smoking is only permitted in the casino, where ashtrays and appropriate signage will be displayed. Smoking is prohibited in all other public interior venues including all bars, restaurants, conference rooms, corridors, restrooms, staircases and landings. Guests may utilise the enclosed cigar bars on board Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Gem, Norwegian Pearl, Norwegian Dawn and Norwegian Spirit for cigarette, cigar and pipe smoking.

In addition, the policy allows guests to smoke cigarettes, cigars and pipes in outdoor public guest spaces and open decks, where designated by the appropriate signage. Smoking is not permitted near outdoor venues which serve food, in open spaces such as the jogging track, sport complex, children’s pool and in The Haven outdoor areas.

 

Here's a link to the UK FAQ's

 

http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/#!/helpful-information/faqs/

 

No mention of e-cigs

[DMH15]

You were not allowed to smoke in the stateroom last year

 

 

 

Here's what the present information says

 

 

 

Can I smoke on board?

 

We want you to be comfortable on board, so most public areas throughout all Norwegian Cruise Line ships are smoke free. However if you do smoke cigarettes, pipes or cigars please don’t worry, there are plenty of areas of the ship that you can still smoke. Please see below for further details:

 

As of 1 January 2012 guests setting sail on a Norwegian cruise holiday will no longer be permitted to smoke in their staterooms. Guests who are in a balcony stateroom will be permitted to smoke cigarettes on the outside balcony; however, cigar and pipe smoking on balconies is prohibited. Ashtrays will be available for use upon request through housekeeping staff. Any guest that does smoke in their staterooms will be charged a cleaning fee of $250.00 per stateroom.

 

In an effort to diminish the presence of smoke indoors, cigarette smoking is only permitted in the casino, where ashtrays and appropriate signage will be displayed. Smoking is prohibited in all other public interior venues including all bars, restaurants, conference rooms, corridors, restrooms, staircases and landings. Guests may utilise the enclosed cigar bars on board Norwegian Epic, Norwegian Gem, Norwegian Pearl, Norwegian Dawn and Norwegian Spirit for cigarette, cigar and pipe smoking.

 

In addition, the policy allows guests to smoke cigarettes, cigars and pipes in outdoor public guest spaces and open decks, where designated by the appropriate signage. Smoking is not permitted near outdoor venues which serve food, in open spaces such as the jogging track, sport complex, children’s pool and in The Haven outdoor areas.

 

 

 

Here's a link to the UK FAQ's

 

 

 

http://www.ncl.co.uk/helpful-information/#!/helpful-information/faqs/

 

 

 

No mention of e-cigs

 

 

Sorry, guess time flies and seems like only yesterday they banned smoking in rooms. I was wrong.

 

 

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[gemsm]

posted the abstract in response to another post. It is from the NIH pubmed database.

 

Bottom line that they are much better then regular cigarettes. Probably fine outdoors as far as second hand impact. Still enough to negatively impact if used indoors, even in a fully ventilated space. This assumes that the liguid is of high quality.

 

There were 5 studies on indoor air quality due to e-cigarette vapor. 4 said no problem to the "passive" vapor. One said there was. So whom shall we believe? Therein lies the problem. 5 groups of scientists...4 find no issues 1 finds an issue.

[gemsm]

 

There is currently work going on at the EPA to set the 24 hour exposure limit for PM2.5 to 35μg/m3. About 1/6 the level identified in the study.

 

Well hell that's never gonna fly...They can't get PM2.5 that low in California.

[nomad098]

The study you referenced deals with VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds), not micro particulates. The abstract from the study I posted does show the measured results with PM2.5.

 

PM2.5 (mean 197μg/m3)

 

PM2.5 is of interest because that particulate size penetrates deeply into the lung.

 

From the EPA website

 

"Particles less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter (PM2.5) are referred to as "fine" particles and are believed to pose the largest health risks. Because of their small size (less than one-seventh the average width of a human hair), fine particles can lodge deeply into the lungs.

 

Health studies have shown a significant association between exposure to fine particles and premature mortality. Other important effects include aggravation of respiratory and cardiovascular disease (as indicated by increased hospital admissions, emergency room visits, absences from school or work, and restricted activity days), lung disease, decreased lung function, asthma attacks, and certain cardiovascular problems such as heart attacks and cardiac arrhythmia. Individuals particularly sensitive to fine particle exposure include older adults, people with heart and lung disease, and children."

 

 

There is currently work going on at the EPA to set the 24 hour exposure limit for PM2.5 to 35μg/m3. About 1/6 the level identified in the study.

 

Now the abstract says the measurement for PM2.5 (mean 197μg/m3) was taken during the gas phase. I would be curious to know whether that reading was taken in the 8 cubic meter room (2*2*2 meter room that's a small room) or from the 10 litre jar they used when they did not get the readings they expected or from the machine that vaporised the liquid without being inhaled

 

To put that in perspective that's close to 100 million times less than the average new car produces a year or 13,300 million times less than burning 2 tonnes of wood on a wood burning stove

 

Still worrying though

[Cruiser Who Knows Nothing]

So, what the verdict....can you smoke em or not. :) I feel bad for OP. All these motivations....

 

 

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[RDC1]

There were 5 studies on indoor air quality due to e-cigarette vapor. 4 said no problem to the "passive" vapor. One said there was. So whom shall we believe? Therein lies the problem. 5 groups of scientists...4 find no issues 1 finds an issue.

 

Depends upon what the studies are looking for. Most of the ones I have read that found no problem were looking organics and other chemicals such as nicotine. Most have not looked at PM2.5. The ones I have seen that specifically look at PM2.5 have found an issue. Again better then regular cigarettes, but in the problem range.

 

The ones looking at nicotine have been mixed with some finding that there would be some nicotine exposure to others in an inside space, but uncertain about the impact.

 

So take a look at the studies and see what they were designed to measure.

[RDC1]

Now the abstract says the measurement for PM2.5 (mean 197μg/m3) was taken during the gas phase. I would be curious to know whether that reading was taken in the 8 cubic meter room (2*2*2 meter room that's a small room) or from the 10 litre jar they used when they did not get the readings they expected or from the machine that vaporised the liquid without being inhaled

 

To put that in perspective that's close to 100 million times less than the average new car produces a year or 13,300 million times less than burning 2 tonnes of wood on a wood burning stove

 

Still worrying though

 

The abstract does not list the room size so not sure where the 8 cubic meter room came from. I have a copy of the journal at my office, but do not have one at home. The measurements was from the air in the room. not from a jar or a machine. This study used live people and their e-cigs, no machines. The air samples were taken from the room.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't run car exhaust in an inside room, nor do I burn wood inside as well. The study was specifically about the impact of using e-cigs on indoor air quality in a well ventilated room.

 

I would also discourage someone from sucking on a car exhaust pipe or deeply inhaling woodsmoke.

Edited April 5, 2014 by RDC1

[nomad098]

So, what the verdict....can you smoke em or not. :) I feel bad for OP. All these motivations....

 

 

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It's as clear as mud:eek:

 

US terms and conditions restrictions in place

UK & EU terms and conditions no restrictions in place

 

 

The abstract does not list the room size so not sure where the 8 cubic meter room came from. I have a copy of the journal at my office, but do not have one at home. The measurements was from the air in the room. not from a jar or a machine. This study used live people and their e-cigs, no machines. The air samples were taken from the room.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't run car exhaust in an inside room, nor do I burn wood inside as well. The study was specifically about the impact of using e-cigs on indoor air quality in a well ventilated room.

 

I would also discourage someone from sucking on a car exhaust pipe or deeply inhaling woodsmoke.

 

The abstract you posted and the information I posted I believe are from the same study by German researchers published in the scientific journal, Indoor Air

 

Personally as an e-cig user I have no problem with the restrictions as long as I do not have to stand with the smokers:mad:

[gemsm]

So, what the verdict....can you smoke em or not. :) I feel bad for OP. All these motivations....

 

 

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Actually this has turned into a rather interesting and enlightening discussion. I will do some more reading on the subject as a result of it :) And everyone is being perfectly civil so though the thread was somewhat hijacked its not like the typical smoking threads on these boards.

[swedish weave]

So, what the verdict....can you smoke em or not. :) I feel bad for OP. All these motivations....

 

 

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The way I see it is if you choose to use E-cigs, you can do it ----but NCL chooses to tell you where they are acceptable, and they can do that.

 

All the other stuff like statistics and studies are just "fluff".

[Ti2m]

So, what the verdict....can you smoke em or not. :) I feel bad for OP. All these motivations....

 

I'm smoking mine. If someone asks me not to then I will stop. Unless it's Mike. ;)