Service charges paid to crew.

[mr green]

While each cruise line has a slighlty different calculation, the following breakdown should be close

 

Restaurant Service* Per Person Per Day

Waiter $3.65

Assistant Waiter $2.10

Dining Room Management $1.00

 

Stateroom Service* Per Person Per Day

Stateroom Service $3.50 (slightly more for suite staterooms)

 

Alternative Service*

Other Service Personnel $1.25

 

*Please note that gratuities may be shared with other crew members depending on the particular service requirement.

 

The * means that some of your food gratuities are shared with the buffet people and others behind the scenes that you might not see.

 

On our last cruise we had excellent room service, even if our room was not always done while we were at breakfast. It turned out that the fellow had 17 rooms. Now lets assume that if a person works for 300 days a year he is getting $35,000 a year plus room and board.

Now, on the other side of the coin, in England few years ago my wife and I had a simple lunch, [2 burgers and 2 ciders]. After I paid I mentioned to the girl, 'That was my wages for a month when I worked here in the '50's'

The fact is that at times figures are meaningless.

 

john

[luddite]

It gets divided such that the crew is happy and doesn't mutiny or leave at the next port. Because this is how the make their money, not from a salary.

[Treven]

?..

So out of the 800 crew on the OP's cruise, most likely there were no more than 200 salaried and commissioned crew. That still computes to only $36.67 per day plus food, a cramped cabin where you can only keep the very barest of necessities and repeated travel back and forth from the USA to the Caribbean over and over and over. Would YOU work for that???

I'm quite certain this is why NCL's "experiment" with the ... Of Hawaii ships and their American crew. They didn't want to work for those wages either.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Treven

[mr green]

Which cruise line was this! I have never heard this before. :eek:

 

All I will say is that I have cruised the line. It was about 5 years ago, so hopefully it will not be repeated.

 

john

[MandD]

I guess I am missing something here. If the room steward receives auto tips of 3.50/day pp and say, has 12 rooms, that is 588, correct? For one week, including their room and board. So 30,576. Not great pay, but above even the US poverty level, and most likely, well above the poverty line of their home country. Now, I suppose some people under tip, or don't tip at all, but many over tip most likely making up that difference.

 

Sent from my DROID4 using Forums mobile app

 

30,576/588=52 - 15 day weeks in a year! :) A new employee might have only a 4 month contract and the longest contract is probably 9 months with a month off between contracts.

[boogs]

So I guess that is something else you don't want to know.

 

john

 

Please tell me which line would hire an employee to try to identify who I am from my user ID, "grade" me as a customer, and then "downgrade" me if I made a comment here that they didn't like. I want to avoid giving even a dime to a company with such an anal, customer hostile corporate mentality. They don't deserve my business.

 

EDIT: I see that as I wrote this post several of your posts have been removed, including the one where you claim a cruise line "grades" it's customers and because they somehow can find out who you are, you don't want to be at risk of being "downgraded" for saying something negative about them. The replies are also gone. I wonder who complained?

Edited November 18, 2013 by boogs

[mr green]

 

EDIT: I see that as I wrote this post several of your posts have been removed, including the one where you claim a cruise line "grades" it's customers and because they somehow can find out who you are, you don't want to be at risk of being "downgraded" for saying something negative about them. The replies are also gone. I wonder who complained?

 

 

I could for one. it was a long time ago, but for some reason Celebrity graded me as 'B', for the life of me I don't know why. The rest of the cruise critics of the day all had a good laugh, but at least they knew it to be true. At that time I had not even sailed with them.

 

john

[Karysa]

I could for one. it was a long time ago, but for some reason Celebrity graded me as 'B', for the life of me I don't know why. The rest of the cruise critics of the day all had a good laugh, but at least they knew it to be true. At that time I had not even sailed with them.

 

john

 

This is so funny. :D When do they actually make use of the system? In an emergency? If you get a "D" do you have to row the boat if the power fails? :eek:

[boogs]

I could for one. it was a long time ago, but for some reason Celebrity graded me as 'B', for the life of me I don't know why. The rest of the cruise critics of the day all had a good laugh, but at least they knew it to be true. At that time I had not even sailed with them.

 

john

 

John, please tell us how these grades were assigned and how did you find out about your grade on Celebrity?

Edited November 19, 2013 by boogs

[navybankerteacher]

I sometimes struggle to understand why folk care what the split is. We pay the requisite tips and pay extra to those that make our vacation memorable. I personally am a bit miffed that those extra tips go into the "pot" and are shared....they were intended for the recipient, but it is what it is.....

 

We go with the flow and know there isn't much we can do to change things.

 

Those " extra tips" do not go into the pot. The only cash tips given which must be turned in are those given by passengers who remove the auto-tip. If you leave that in place, those staff members you want to reward for superior effort may keep what you give them.

[SantaFeFan]

This is so funny. :D When do they actually make use of the system? In an emergency? If you get a "D" do you have to row the boat if the power fails? :eek:

 

Actually, it really isn't a "grade". The 'B' is shorthand used by the cruise line to identify a person full of B/S. :D

Edited November 19, 2013 by SantaFeFan

[mr green]

John, please tell us how these grades were assigned and how did you find out about your grade on Celebrity?

 

I can't remember, I wish that I could. It may have been a private email to me, how many grades? I have no idea, BUT, it was a fact that I shall always remember.

One other little fact, so I do hope for the sake of other cruisers that X has changed its ways. In a revue that I made after the cruise I stated in part 'If this was my first cruise, it would be my last!'

 

john

[boogs]

I could for one. it was a long time ago, but for some reason Celebrity graded me as 'B', for the life of me I don't know why. The rest of the cruise critics of the day all had a good laugh, but at least they knew it to be true. At that time I had not even sailed with them.

 

john

 

I can't remember, I wish that I could. It may have been a private email to me, how many grades? I have no idea, BUT, it was a fact that I shall always remember.

One other little fact, so I do hope for the sake of other cruisers that X has changed its ways. In a revue that I made after the cruise I stated in part 'If this was my first cruise, it would be my last!'

 

john

 

OK, I am officially confused. First you say that when you had gotten the 'B' grade from Celebrity, you "had not even sailed with them". Then in a later post you say that in a review you made after the cruise you wrote 'If this was my first cruise, it would be my last'", implying that you weren't pleased with the cruise, and that this negative comment is why you were given such a grading.

 

Those two statements are contradictory. So which is it? You had not yet sailed with them, or had completed a cruise and posted a negative review? It can't be both!

Edited November 19, 2013 by boogs

[smeyer418]

sorry this is going to be a long post. Yes I have too been told that some cruise lines grade people but that was based on how much they spend and how much they gamble-never on tipping although some employees may pass that information on. Casino's grade people too. I know one person who has been graded on how much he spends on Art and has been comped as well. Some people have histories on how much they complain and some people have been banned from a cruise line because of conduct.

 

But this is off topic from what is a tipping thread. I have a canned response for tipping issues and here it is.

 

 

The service people on most of the tipping cruise lines are paid a base salary of something around $100 per MONTH plus on board room and board and some on board medical care) here is a thread from someone who works/ed in the dining room that talks about this.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1107696

 

They do take home more because they get a draw against the tips and the tips themselves.

 

This method of paying the traditional tipped crew goes back to at least the early 1900's and was continued by Samuel Cunard who was born in Canada and immigrated to England.

 

In fact in the 1910-30 there was a movement in the US to do away with tipping-which obviously failed.

 

Because of the fare structure now the remuneration for the traditionally tipped crew is NOT included in the fare. Generally those cruise lines that do include it charge more than the difference between the cost of tipping non tipping(Azamara announced a 25% increase and included the "basic" tipping and some other items-none of which when added together could justify a 25% increase-but I don't know if the full increase has held this is an example I realize that your cruise line may not be Azamara or Seaborn or other of the luxury lines where in general you pay a premium to get the base tip included-do you really think that people no longer tip on these lines).

 

Whether its in the fare or the expected tip, its you are paying it anyway. fare.

 

On most cruise lines when you remove the auto -tip all or most of the cash tip is put back into the pool anyway so in fact you make it more difficult for those who you want to reward. The best way to reward these people is to either write a note to their supervisors explaining how they went over and above or giving them a little extra(at your discretion of course).

The auto tip takes care of what the employees were required to do anyway(called tipping out). The rooms stewards traditionally tipped out the laundry room supply room staff and asst head housekeeper(the name for this varies among cruise lines); and the waiters tipped out the bus boys, dishwashers, line cooks and asst head waiter/maitre d(also varies by cruise line). The maitre D, dinning room supervisor, again this varies by cruise line are normally salaried employee as is the head housekeeper and Hotel Manager. But I was just on a river cruise and was told that ALL the statff shares equally in the tips...although I didn't inquire additionally as to whether that included the Captain but there were only 40 employees in total and only about 6 weren't service people.

Do the employees just pocket the cash? mostly no. If the auto-tip is removed and they don't turn it in(BTW I have been told by some staff they sometimes convert extra tips left by some which they don't have to turn in at all to pay for the cheapos/stiffers because they ARE marked down when people keep taking the auto-tip off and leave nothing or less than the suggested amount-rightfully or wrongfully its held against them). The employees live in close quarters 3-4 in a room and they don't want large amounts of cash lying around either. The employees know pretty quickly who are the slackers and pocketers and since the supervisor is one of the people being stiffed by the employees they get a. fired b. non renewed or c the worst assignments....and also have been known to be visited by their own countries of origin mafia on board.

Ships are clearly a different culture with somewhat different rules. The tipping culture is a tradition on board. I know some people dis like being told when in Rome....but you aren't in Kansas either.

If you don't like the auto-tip you are of course free to chose another cruise line that includes it but if you like the cruise line’s product and the service you really SHOULD follow the tradition.

 

There is also not one iota of evidence that the entire auto tip doesn't make it to the traditionally tipped and tipped out crew. The cruise lines even absorb the credit card charge although that is subject to change. Cruise employees sue cruise lines all the time and there is NOT one report of any crew member that the entire amount doesn't eventually get to them and not one reported lawsuit...yet(I monitor a number of cruise lawyers reports who would report any such lawsuit). {I know one person above mentioned such a lawsuit I monitor all the websites that would report such a thing and I didn't see it-that of course doesn't mean there wasn't one only that I didn't see it. there have been lawsuits about Starbucks and many other places taking a share for supervisors or not paying it over. Hawaiian law makes it illegal to require an employee to share their tips-which applies on NCL America and some states have similar laws}

 

I also don’t believe that in most cases that tipping has anything to do with the service you-or even how much the employees get paid. It’s a function more of training, supervision and the individual’s employees work ethic more than anything else…as in a good McDonald’s.

[CaroleSS]

Thank you for a WONDERFUL post!!

 

One thing that I have heard (please correct me if I am wrong) is that if you REALLY want to thank someone for their outstanding service, you should write it down on your comment sheet!

 

(Supposedly), promotions and good assignments, thus more pay, comes from your feedback. Extra tips help in the short term, but good reviews yield long term gains.

[smeyer418]

Thank you for a WONDERFUL post!!

 

One thing that I have heard (please correct me if I am wrong) is that if you REALLY want to thank someone for their outstanding service, you should write it down on your comment sheet!

 

(Supposedly), promotions and good assignments, thus more pay, comes from your feedback. Extra tips help in the short term, but good reviews yield long term gains.

yes sometimes extra days or time off too! On cruise ships even employees are expected to tip those who provide them services. The crew has their rooms cleaned too and is expected to tip..many of the cabin crews started out cleaning the employees rooms first. Even the Captain is expected to tip those who clean his/her quarters(really)...

Edited November 19, 2013 by smeyer418

[mr green]

OK, I am officially confused.

 

Those two statements are contradictory. So which is it? You had not yet sailed with them, or had completed a cruise and posted a negative review? It can't be both!

 

All I can tell you is that I was Graded 'B', BEFORE I sailed on Mercury. HOW WHY? I don't know, I wish that I did, I was on the Roll Call boards before sailing.

So now you know as much as I do.

 

john

[navybankerteacher]

I guess I am missing something here. If the room steward receives auto tips of 3.50/day pp and say, has 12 rooms, that is 588, correct? For one week, including their room and board. So 30,576. Not great pay, but above even the US poverty level, and most likely, well above the poverty line of their home country. Now, I suppose some people under tip, or don't tip at all, but many over tip most likely making up that difference.

 

Sent from my DROID4 using Forums mobile app

 

Your arithmetic is good but your conclusions are less certain. Sadly, there are a number of passengers who reduce/remove the auto-tip. In any event, the pay is for a very long day, seven days per week, with only a few hours off. While it is well above US poverty level, it still does not seem sufficient to attract many US-based job applicants who should be clamor in for such an income level.

 

Perhaps the concept of long hours cleaning other people's toilets makes people who have other options think twice before signing up.

[navybankerteacher]

OK, I am officially confused. First you say that when you had gotten the 'B' grade from Celebrity, you "had not even sailed with them". Then in a later post you say that in a review you made after the cruise you wrote 'If this was my first cruise, it would be my last'", implying that you weren't pleased with the cruise, and that this negative comment is why you were given such a grading.

 

Those two statements are contradictory. So which is it? You had not yet sailed with them, or had completed a cruise and posted a negative review? It can't be both!

 

I think you have come up with a valid explanation of the supposed "B" rating:

 

As in BS, or, possibly BLOWHARD. We all see posts about people's extraordinary capacity for drink, or consistent winnings at casinos -- which, when considered carefully, are found to be not worth actually considering at all.

 

It.seems we

[John Bull]

There's an awful lot of arithmetic being bandied about on this thread, with some pretty questionable conclusions. :D

 

When it comes to a minimum wage, in Europe the minimum is an hourly rate, not a weekly rate. I don't know about the US of A.

I won't profess to know how many days/hours the crew work, but I do seem to see them all the time - sometimes in the MDR, sometimes in the buffet, sometimes in the bars & other outlets. Morning, noon & night.

Anyone care to figure the hourly rate? ;)

And if it's up to the minimum for workers ashore.

 

JB :)

[CaroleSS]

JB, you are right. No one really cares what I make. As long as *I* am willing to do my job for the money they pay me, whose business is it but mine?

 

While I do understand that passengers are curious about things, money is a touchy subject and I would even surmise that (as with my company) discussing pay is a no-no. I willing pay the requisite amount plus a little extra for those that make my vacation memorable. I try to say "please" and "thank you" and am more than willing to praise someone to management.

 

My kids waited tables and as my son frequently commented, "that dollar may not mean a lot to you, but it means a LOT to me!!"

[boogs]

There's an awful lot of arithmetic being bandied about on this thread, with some pretty questionable conclusions. :D

 

When it comes to a minimum wage, in Europe the minimum is an hourly rate, not a weekly rate. I don't know about the US of A.

I won't profess to know how many days/hours the crew work, but I do seem to see them all the time - sometimes in the MDR, sometimes in the buffet, sometimes in the bars & other outlets. Morning, noon & night.

Anyone care to figure the hourly rate? ;)

And if it's up to the minimum for workers ashore.

 

JB :)

 

Which "workers ashore"? Where you come from, or where they come from? I would be willing to bet that the income the staff on cruise ships makes is much more than most of the workers ashore in the countries they are from. It is their choice to work on these ships, and they do it willingly because the pay is better than they would otherwise be getting back home. Your value system is not their value system, so why does it matter what YOU believe to be a reasonable minimum wage? I live in the area of the US that has the highest median income level - $63,024. It is also the area that has the highest minimum hourly wages in the US at $10.75. Is that the area we should be basing the "minimum" wage on? Or from an area of your choosing?

 

Compared to the typical wages in the countries that most of the crew comes from, they are doing quite well financially. Many are supporting a wife, children, parents, and sometimes other relatives. They often make enough money so their families are able to live in better neighborhoods, to eventually purchase a shop or business so they can become self sufficient, and are considered wealthy in many places. Several of our servers in the MDR proudly told us they could afford to send their children to college, a luxury their relatives ashore could not afford.

 

If they are happy with their wages, why should we be applying our values to their situation? Do you think that they want to be saved from the "oppression" some of you think they are dealing with?

Edited November 19, 2013 by boogs

[John Bull]

Which "workers ashore"? Where you come from, or where they come from? I would be willing to bet that the income the staff on cruise ships makes is much more than most of the workers ashore in the countries they are from. It is their choice to work on these ships, and they do it willingly because the pay is better than they would otherwise be getting back home. Your value system is not their value system, so why does it matter what YOU believe to be a reasonable minimum wage? I live in the area of the US that has the highest median income level - $63,024. It is also the area that has the highest minimum hourly wages in the US at $10.75. Is that the area we should be basing the "minimum" wage on? Or from an area of your choosing?

 

Compared to the typical wages in the countries that most of the crew comes from, they are doing quite well financially. Many are supporting a wife, children, parents, and sometimes other relatives. They often make enough money so their families are able to live in better neighborhoods, to eventually purchase a shop or business so they can become self sufficient, and are considered wealthy in many places. Several of our servers in the MDR proudly told us they could afford to send their children to college, a luxury their relatives ashore could not afford.

 

If they are happy with their wages, why should we be applying our values to their situation? Do you think that they want to be saved from the "oppression" some of you think they are dealing with?

 

 

Hmmm........you've mis-interpreted my post, Boogs - you and I are of like mind.;)

 

I was seeking a comparison with US & UK minimum hourly wages - not because I think someone whose home is in a vastly lower-cost country should receive those sort of minimums, but because there are posters on this thread convinced by their own arithmetic the crew get way more - figures like $588 pw / $35k pa on tips alone - plus basic pay plus full bed & board plus perks.

 

I was trying to make the point that those are cloud-cuckoo wages :rolleyes:, & that the true rates are way below US/UK levels.

I wasn't suggesting that they should be higher, merely pointing out that there's an awful lot of dreadful arithmetic on this thread.

 

My own opinion?

Even though I haven't any better idea of how much they earn than anyone else on this thread, I suspect it's probably about right.

But since I'm not crew member or a cruise line bean-counter, it's none of my business anyway. :rolleyes:

 

JB :)

[boogs]

Hmmm........you've mis-interpreted my post, Boogs - you and I are of like mind.;)

 

I was seeking a comparison with US & UK minimum hourly wages - not because I think someone whose home is in a vastly lower-cost country should receive those sort of minimums, but because there are posters on this thread convinced by their own arithmetic the crew get way more - figures like $588 pw / $35k pa on tips alone - plus basic pay plus full bed & board plus perks.

 

I was trying to make the point that those are cloud-cuckoo wages :rolleyes:, & that the true rates are way below US/UK levels.

I wasn't suggesting that they should be higher, merely pointing out that there's an awful lot of dreadful arithmetic on this thread.

 

My own opinion?

Even though I haven't any better idea of how much they earn than anyone else on this thread, I suspect it's probably about right.

But since I'm not crew member or a cruise line bean-counter, it's none of my business anyway. :rolleyes:

 

JB :)

 

JB, my sincere apologies for misinterpreting your comment. Glad we are on the same page.

 

Darn, I hate eating crow - the feathers tickle when I chew.:D

 

[smeyer418]

I really hate tipping threads. They have resulted in my being suspended on more than one occasion although the last occasion was a number of years ago almost 3 in fact. There are comments you can pick by type that may have an interesting meaning or may have not. When (IMO) some one - not you of course- says that the person making the money would live like a king forgetting that the person has to spend most of the year away from the family or that they get to see the world(without 4 hours off on few and far between days), these are all watchwords for the same thing. That thing is how can I justify leaving less than the recommended/standard amount? Can I justify it by saying its like a king's wages from where they are from? Can I justify it by saying that they get the benefit of seeing the world? Can I justify it by saying how much they earn?

Yes things are changing...again. The opt out ways means that on most cruises the compliance rate(those leaving it on) is 90% or greater. yes there are some cruises where the committed removers exceed this amount. These cruise tend to be representative of cruisers from certain countries. Americans in general are generous tippers although there are many of us that are just plain cheap.

BTW this doesn't mean that you shouldn't both complain and reduce the tips when the standard isn't being met. But for the most part the reasons to reduce it have little to do with service. I didn't like the food or the weather is no reason to reduce the tip, service charge, hotel charge, resort change or what ever the cruise line calls it. yes I know that you have the power to do so but that doesn't make it right or the Christian thing to do...

So how much the person makes, where they are from or its not what you do where you come from are mindless excuses of the downright skin flints... In my opinion of course and of course its not YOU or me for that matter...