Service charges paid to crew.

[smeyer418]

I really hate tipping threads. They have resulted in my being suspended on more than one occasion although the last occasion was a number of years ago almost 3 in fact. There are comments you can pick by type that may have an interesting meaning or may have not. When (IMO) some one - not you of course- says that the person making the money would live like a king forgetting that the person has to spend most of the year away from the family or that they get to see the world(without 4 hours off on few and far between days), these are all watchwords for the same thing. That thing is how can I justify leaving less than the recommended/standard amount? Can I justify it by saying its like a king's wages from where they are from? Can I justify it by saying that they get the benefit of seeing the world? Can I justify it by saying how much they earn?

Yes things are changing...again. The opt out ways means that on most cruises the compliance rate(those leaving it on) is 90% or greater. yes there are some cruises where the committed removers exceed this amount. These cruise tend to be representative of cruisers from certain countries. Americans in general are generous tippers although there are many of us that are just plain cheap.

BTW this doesn't mean that you shouldn't both complain and reduce the tips when the standard isn't being met. But for the most part the reasons to reduce it have little to do with service. I didn't like the food or the weather is no reason to reduce the tip, service charge, hotel charge, resort change or what ever the cruise line calls it. yes I know that you have the power to do so but that doesn't make it right or the Christian thing to do...

So how much the person makes, where they are from or its not what you do where you come from are mindless excuses of the downright skin flints... In my opinion of course and of course its not YOU or me for that matter...

I should have added one more point. There are some people who are trying genuinely to find out how the tipping works- to those I apologize for thinking otherwise. There is no harm in asking the question but many times(not all) the real implication is how do without hurting my conscious (assuming you have one) leave less than the suggestion amount or nothing at all or take it off its its opt out.

[John Bull]

I The opt out ways means that on most cruises the compliance rate(those leaving it on) is 90% or greater. yes there are some cruises where the committed removers exceed this amount. These cruise tend to be representative of cruisers from certain countries. Americans in general are generous tippers although there are many of us that are just plain cheap.

...

 

Brits & other Europeans, and Antipdeans come into that bracket, because the tipping culture is less-prevalent & at much lower levels..

 

Yes, I've droned on about this before (just once or twice ;)) but for a huge proportion of first-timers on a US ship the expectation, and at US levels, is sprung on them long after they booked. Because it's "discretionary" :rolleyes:, the cruise lines & T/As don't have to be up-front about the charges when promoting their cruises, so they gloss-over on some remote page of their website or, in the case of T/As the subject is never mentioned at all.

So someone is going to get stiffed.

The newbie cruiser, because he's been cajoled into paying an expense he'd not been told about.

Or the crew, because the newbie indignantly removes the charge.

 

Tipping is the culture on USA soil.

Makes sense to presume the same for US ships sailing out of the US.

 

But when a cruise is, say, from Rome to Venice and doesn't go within 3000 miles of the US, I can understand those novices who query why a US custom is being applied.

"When in Rome ....?"

A chunk of the UK train system is operated by a French company, but French ways & customs aren't applied.

My water is supplied by a European conglomerate, but I don't pay in euros.

I accept there are differences with a ship & with a mixed US/non-US clientele, and I'm not saying ships should change wholesale to suit their passenger-mix & location. But I do understand the misconceptions, & if the cruise lines want to export that culture to cruises remote from the US they could & should be more transparent about their tipping expectations.

Or make them mandatory (which would oblige them to be up-front at the booking stage) or include decent wages in a revised cruise ticket price.

 

But they won't, because of their fixation with keeping up-front advertised prices low - the same reason why they're cutting back on the experience rather than increasing prices to allow for increased costs.

Even though such a move would simplify things, would avoid resentment with an add-on cost, would thwart the cheapskates, & would result in better discretionary tips on top of decent wages - as happens on UK tips-inclusive ships.

The only downside is that we'd have nothing to argue about on this forum :D

 

JB :)

[SteveH2508]

We were on the Independence of the Seas round-trip recently out of Southampton. We noticed that the bar menus and the bar chits did not include the usual 15% gratuity charged by US cruise lines. The prices were higher, so I assume that they included the gratuity in the price.

 

We wondered how many regular cruisers (but no CC members) added an extra gratuity?

 

Do they change the menus (and the bar pricing software) when IoTS returns to the US?

[John Bull]

We were on the Independence of the Seas round-trip recently out of Southampton. We noticed that the bar menus and the bar chits did not include the usual 15% gratuity charged by US cruise lines. The prices were higher, so I assume that they included the gratuity in the price.

 

We wondered how many regular cruisers (but no CC members) added an extra gratuity?

 

Do they change the menus (and the bar pricing software) when IoTS returns to the US?

 

Yes, same on Adventure OTS this year out of Southampton, RCI have been doing this for a few years now.

Just sailings ex-UK.

Mebbe also on cruises out of Aus?

 

But on Adventure at least, they weren't marketing it well on their first ex-Southampton cruise this season.

When asked if 15% was to be added, no staff seemed to know.:rolleyes:

Many cruisers suspected that 15% was going to be added to their on-board account at the end, & I wasn't about to tell them it wasn't - just in case it was !!!

Consequently, folk spent less than they would have done if they'd know that the 15% was included in the bar list prices.

 

They were also selling a number of packaged wines.

Some of the self-same wines were cheaper by the bottle!! Along the lines of $26 each or four for $114 :rolleyes:

 

Clueless staff? Or teething problems on a new itinerary?

 

JB :)

Edited November 20, 2013 by John Bull

[SteveH2508]

Yes, same on Adventure OTS this year out of Southampton, RCI have been doing this for a few years now.

Just sailings ex-UK.

Mebbe also on cruises out of Aus?

 

But on Adventure at least, they weren't marketing it well on their first ex-Southampton cruise this season.

When asked if 15% was to be added, no staff seemed to know.:rolleyes:

Many cruisers suspected that 15% was going to be added to their on-board account at the end, & I wasn't about to tell them it wasn't - just in case it was !!!

Consequently, folk spent less than they would have done if they'd know that the 15% was included in the bar list prices.

 

They were also selling a number of packaged wines.

Some of the self-same wines were cheaper by the bottle!! Along the lines of $26 each or four for $114 :rolleyes:

 

Clueless staff? Or teething problems on a new itinerary?

 

JB :)

 

Nah - in my (very) limited experience of RCCL they have a bit of a problem organising a PU in a brewery. We like a drink but our bar bill was about half our usual because we could never get served!:eek:

[YubaSutter]

not you of course- says that the person making the money would live like a king forgetting that the person has to spend most of the year away from the family or that they get to see the world(without 4 hours off on few and far between days), ..

 

I have two brothers that have not seen their families for over a year. One got to meet his daughter for the first time, when she was 7 months old. They both get lousy pay with the added worry that they will be killed doing their job. All because we are in a war on the other side of the planet.

[navybankerteacher]

Brits & other Europeans, and Antipdeans come into that bracket, because the tipping culture is less-prevalent & at much lower levels..

 

Yes, I've droned on about this before (just once or twice ;)) but for a huge proportion of first-timers on a US ship the expectation, and at US levels, is sprung on them long after they booked. Because it's "discretionary" :rolleyes:, the cruise lines & T/As don't have to be up-front about the charges when promoting their cruises, so they gloss-over on some remote page of their website or, in the case of T/As the subject is never mentioned at all.

So someone is going to get stiffed.

The newbie cruiser, because he's been cajoled into paying an expense he'd not been told about.

Or the crew, because the newbie indignantly removes the charge.

 

Tipping is the culture on USA soil.

Makes sense to presume the same for US ships sailing out of the US.

 

But when a cruise is, say, from Rome to Venice and doesn't go within 3000 miles of the US, I can understand those novices who query why a US custom is being applied.

"When in Rome ....?"

A chunk of the UK train system is operated by a French company, but French ways & customs aren't applied.

My water is supplied by a European conglomerate, but I don't pay in euros.

I accept there are differences with a ship & with a mixed US/non-US clientele, and I'm not saying ships should change wholesale to suit their passenger-mix & location. But I do understand the misconceptions, & if the cruise lines want to export that culture to cruises remote from the US they could & should be more transparent about their tipping expectations.

Or make them mandatory (which would oblige them to be up-front at the booking stage) or include decent wages in a revised cruise ticket price.

 

But they won't, because of their fixation with keeping up-front advertised prices low - the same reason why they're cutting back on the experience rather than increasing prices to allow for increased costs.

Even though such a move would simplify things, would avoid resentment with an add-on cost, would thwart the cheapskates, & would result in better discretionary tips on top of decent wages - as happens on UK tips-inclusive ships.

The only downside is that we'd have nothing to argue about on this forum :D

 

JB :)

 

I understand your questioning a US-style tipping environment should pertain on a ship sailing between Venice and Rome. Many of the passengers will have a Venice/Rome world view --- but the fact remains: the ships, regardless of flag, are essentially US enterprises with crews accustomed to US compensation programs. Trying to adjust when the ship repositions to a US port at the end of the Med season, and back again in the Spring would be an unwelcome hassle. Also--- even on a Med itinerary, a substantial number of the passengers on HAL, NCL, RCCI, Princess, Celebrity and Carnival ships will be US oriented, so they will expect the tipping culture. Same goes for the more upscale: Azamera, Crystal and Seaborns and, yes, even dear old Cunard.

[fortinweb]

Yes, I've droned on about this before (just once or twice ;)) but for a huge proportion of first-timers on a US ship the expectation, and at US levels, is sprung on them long after they booked. Because it's "discretionary" :rolleyes:, the cruise lines & T/As don't have to be up-front about the charges when promoting their cruises, so they gloss-over on some remote page of their website or, in the case of T/As the subject is never mentioned at all.

 

I disagree with this comment. All the cruise lines detail the tipping policies on their web sites. It is only "sprung" on unsuspecting people because they aren't paying attention. For a person to spend thousands on a cruise and do zero research on what they are buying, is pretty foolish. Who in their right mind would spend so much money and not bother to find out what to expect when on board? :confused:

[John Bull]

Brits & other Europeans, and Antipdeans come into that bracket, because the tipping culture is less-prevalent & at much lower levels..

 

Yes, I've droned on about this before (just once or twice ) but for a huge proportion of first-timers on a US ship the expectation, and at US levels, is sprung on them long after they booked. Because it's "discretionary" , the cruise lines & T/As don't have to be up-front about the charges when promoting their cruises, so they gloss-over on some remote page of their website or, in the case of T/As the subject is never mentioned at all.

So someone is going to get stiffed.

The newbie cruiser, because he's been cajoled into paying an expense he'd not been told about.

Or the crew, because the newbie indignantly removes the charge.

 

Tipping is the culture on USA soil.

Makes sense to presume the same for US ships sailing out of the US.

 

But when a cruise is, say, from Rome to Venice and doesn't go within 3000 miles of the US, I can understand those novices who query why a US custom is being applied.

"When in Rome ....?"

A chunk of the UK train system is operated by a French company, but French ways & customs aren't applied.

My water is supplied by a European conglomerate, but I don't pay in euros.

I accept there are differences with a ship & with a mixed US/non-US clientele, and I'm not saying ships should change wholesale to suit their passenger-mix & location. But I do understand the misconceptions, & if the cruise lines want to export that culture to cruises remote from the US they could & should be more transparent about their tipping expectations.

Or make them mandatory (which would oblige them to be up-front at the booking stage) or include decent wages in a revised cruise ticket price.

 

But they won't, because of their fixation with keeping up-front advertised prices low - the same reason why they're cutting back on the experience rather than increasing prices to allow for increased costs.

Even though such a move would simplify things, would avoid resentment with an add-on cost, would thwart the cheapskates, & would result in better discretionary tips on top of decent wages - as happens on UK tips-inclusive ships.

The only downside is that we'd have nothing to argue about on this forum :D

 

JB :)

 

Hi NavyBankerTeacher,

 

Yes, your points already accepted. As you can see from the red highlighted part of my post I wasn't saying lines should change the process - & my post about RCI's poor drinks-service charge transition kinda proves your point.;)

But, as in my post, to get rid of the angst amongst non-US newbies they do need to be more transparent about the process - especially for cruises a long way from home waters.

 

Was also hoping that some folk on this board could at least try to see things from the perspective of those newbies who don't know the American way, or that it applies world-wide on a US-run ship.

 

Hi Fortinweb.

I know & acknowledged in my post (highlighted in green) that tipping policy is detailed on cruise lines' websites.

But some time ago I checked through a whole bunch of them & found the policy is often hidden on obscure pages, & on some I even had to use the search facility to find it :(. And I knew about the policy, so I hunted for it.

Peruse a few of those websites for yourself, as a European or Aussie newbie, & see how easily - or not - you happen across it. Accepted that not all cruise lines are guilty.

And (not aimed at Fortinweb) please folks, no nonsense about you should read all terms & conditions - nobody reads everything on every document for every purchase, rental agreement, airline ticket, insurance policy etc etc etc cos there just ain't enough hours in the day. The important stuff, the most common stuff, is on the front page. And there should be some sort of reference to tipping policies there.

 

Tips aren't mandatory.

Why?

One very good reason is that in Europe, and the USA too?, by law they'd have to disclose them before taking folks' cruise money.

But if it's something I'm expected to pay, rather than some discretionary purchase like a drink or an excursion, then it should be up there alongside the price of the cruise.

£899 + service.

Is that really so difficult?

When it comes to being up-front about prices, I'm afraid much of the USA is living in the bad old days.

 

JB :)

(typing finger well-worn :D)

[navybankerteacher]

JB is right about the necessity for cruise lines to make details of tipping policy more apparent. I do not think they are intentionally sneaky - they just do not care enough to go the extra step when marketing to a customer base less aware of US practices. Call me a dinosaur, but I believe that incentive compensation programs are effective - especially in service industries. It is absurd, as some suggest, to "make tips mandatory" - that would be a contradiction in terms and concept. Simply paying "a living wage" and abandoning tipping altogether sounds fine - but I according to reports it only results in very good service on the genuinely premium-priced lines. NCL's experience with that concept on "mass market" ships shows it's inapplicability there.

[smeyer418]

I have two brothers that have not seen their families for over a year. One got to meet his daughter for the first time, when she was 7 months old. They both get lousy pay with the added worry that they will be killed doing their job. All because we are in a war on the other side of the planet.

as the Military likes to point out , the tempo of these wars has been very disruptive because the military is much smaller than is needed for such deployments. But thanks to your brothers for their service.