Any feedback on this?

[Brahmama]

I received an email from CruiseCritic - with the big black X on it, selling a great deal on a S.Amer. Cruise. However the agency to call (small print at the bottom) was On line Vacation Center (or something close to that.

Is this connected to Cruise Critic? I guess they got our email from them.

Are they reputable? I called and the man said they had only 2 cabins and we must book right then (of course we have heard that one before!) but the air promotional that went with it - that we must have - was sold out. However they were getting more air and hotels and would have them this week. And he didn't handle that part. Another person in the agency took care of that. And, oh yes, there was a possibility that would go up in price - but we could go cancel. (On the website, it says no cancel) So, it's a great price; we are ready to book it, but I have kind of a red flag feeling.

 

Any comments? Suggestions?

 

Carol

[canderson]

I think that all of us who have provided an email address to Cruise Critic receive these frequent offers. What I'd like to know is whether Cruise Critic takes the time to vet the outfits that use this information. What assurances do we have that their advertisers are legit? Does Cruise Critic solicit direct feedback from its members regarding the quality of service received from its advertisers? If so, I haven't seen that anywhere.

 

The deal in question, if real, is indeed quite a deal -- far cheaper than the current rate on the X website.

[libramitch]

Hope you are doing well!!! Still hate that we will not see you in Italy in October. Will have to get togeter soon!

[dmarch@islc.net]

I would contact a host to make sure it's a legit Cruise Critic offer. I was receiving a bunch of bogus CC emails a few months back asking me to verify my user name and password.

[Host Anne]

I'm asking our Community Manager about the email you've received about a cruise offer. To my knowledge, Cruise Critic does NOT send out emails promoting cruises from on-line agencies.

 

The emails dmarch was referring to from a couple of months ago were not from Cruise Critic, either. They were bogus.

 

Please let me have our Community Manager check this out and reply to you.

[canderson]

I'm asking our Community Manager about the email you've received about a cruise offer. To my knowledge, Cruise Critic does NOT send out emails promoting cruises from on-line agencies.

 

The emails dmarch was referring to from a couple of months ago were not from Cruise Critic, either. They were bogus.

 

Please let me have our Community Manager check this out and reply to you.

Here's the header information from the one I received on 7/20. You folks can decide if it's really yours, and what to do with it. If you'd like a full copy along with this header data, let me know. The link led to the following site:

 

http://www.onlinevacationcenter.com/special_deal.cfm?specialsID=492&rf=cc&cid=6&tsid=86&logid=7719

 

---------------------------------------------

 

Received: from 34737-web2.sat.intensive.int (web2.independenttraveler.com[66.216.125.232](untrusted sender))

by rwcrmxc17.comcast.net (rwcrmxc17) with ESMTP

id <20050720144134r1700rgljce>; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:47:01 +0000

X-Originating-IP: [66.216.125.232]

Received: from Niner (unverified [65.1.191.158]) by independenttraveler.com

(Rockliffe SMTPRA 6.1.16) with ESMTP id <B0003109181@34737-web2.sat.intensive.int> for <CCnewsletter@cruisecritic.com>;

Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:37:11 -0400

Message-ID: <001001c58d30$1ff58d60$6001a8c0@Niner>

From: "Cruise Critic" <news@cruisecritic.com>

To: <CCnewsletter@cruisecritic.com>

Subject: Cruise Critic Member Offer: EXCLUSIVE CELEBRITY DEALS!

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:37:05 -0400

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/related;

type="multipart/alternative";

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C58D0E.970BF910"

X-Priority: 3

X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180

X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180

Sender: ccnewsletter-request@cruisecritic.com

[dakrewser]

Independent traveller and CC are one and the same AFAIK.

 

Yep, If you click "about" from the menu, you'll find:

"Cruise Critic is part of an online travel network owned, operated and published by The Independent Traveler, Inc., a privately held New Jersey Corporation"

 

Now OVC is a legitimate on-line agency, I've gotten their ads for a few years and have spoken with them from time to time. Never been able to actually put together the right cruise with them, though. You need to cross all the t's, dor all the i's and read the fine print.

[LauraS]

Hi Folks!

 

No need to worry on this one.

 

First, let me assure everyone that we do not GIVE OUT, SELL or RENT any e-mail address we collect from subscriptions to our newsletter (nor do we e-mail any kind of advertising to those who register on the boards).

 

That e-mail came directly from Cruise Critic's servers. No other organization now "has" your e-mail address to send you additional material.

 

From time to time, Cruise Critic will send its members advertising of interest. The "ads" or graphics you see in some of these ads may be housed on said advertisers servers, though, and there will be links to urls that go to the advertisers website. The frequency of these "e-mail blasts" (as we're fond of calling them) would never be more than one per week.

 

With regard to the question 'are these advertisers legit', the best way to answer is that they are sellers of travel & cruises are a licensed to do so.

 

Finally, Cruise Critic is owned by The Independent Traveler, Inc. located in Pennington NJ. "Kathleen" Tucker is the President and Owner.

 

We're more than happy to hear feedback on your experiences with any of our advertisers you may find on our site. Please send me an e-mail.

 

Laura

[CINDON]

So now we know the rest of the story.:D

[tbelian]

So now we know the rest of the story.:D

 

You bet we do . Now we know why the membership is 'free' because not only do we have banner ads, but also email ads. And in order to side step the 'can spam' act, there is probably an implicit 'opt in' as part of your membership agreement on cruise critic (read membership agreement = 'Terms of Service Agreement' or TOS).

 

Those of you who received those emails should go back and look at them again (if you haven't deleted them), and verify that: a.) You were provided with opt out instructions or a link to opt out, b.) That there was a 'regular us postal adress' contained in the email, and c.) The the subject of the email clearly indicated to you that it was an advertisement. If not, go here: http://www.ftc.gov (they are responsible for handling can spam complaints).

 

I see the AOL philosophy is still in full swing, even here, even now.

[dakrewser]

You bet we do . Now we know why the membership is 'free' because not only do we have banner ads, but also email ads. And in order to side step the 'can spam' act, there is probably an implicit 'opt in' as part of your membership agreement on cruise critic (read membership agreement = 'Terms of Service Agreement' or TOS).

 

 

Nothing in life is free, not even the air you breathe. Some organization must maintain the servers these boards are stored on, maintain the internet connections we use to reach them. If once or twice a week I get an email and this is the price I'm paying for access, it's a very small price indeed. There's also a very clear, very concise privacy policy:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/aboutus/privacy.cfm

 

Cruise Critic is advertiser supported, just as broadcast TV networks, most radio stations and general circulation newspapers and magazines. If anyone objects to the advertising material they receive as a consequence of their CC subscription, there is a very easy solution...

[canderson]

Nothing in life is free, not even the air you breathe.

What is a bit distressing is that we had a host that seemed to be unaware that this was taking place at all. Might be good to assure that all of them are "subscribed" to the CC newsletter -- that's where the email addresses come from that generate this.

 

Of somewhat more concern, however, is the response I received as to the "vetting" of these advertisers. That they're "licensed" (what -- a business license?) doesn't really tell us much. I'd like to think that if CC is pointing us to specific on-line travel agents' web sites, they're applying some standard to those they send us to in their own email apart from the idea that these agents are "licensed" and the fact that they're willing to pay the tab to have the emails sent.

 

Some of you outside of Colorado may now be becoming aware of Tom Martino (aka "The Troubleshooter"). He also depends upon advertising for keeping his show on the air, but his "Referral List" (different from his list of advertisers -- these are companies to whom he would directly refer his listeners) is tightly controlled. He vets all of those who wish to apply for the list, and will pull them quickly if they develop any pattern of customer relation problems that they aren't getting properly resolved. I would like to see a model like that employed here. Perhaps such a model is employed by CC, and we just haven't been informed of this? Perhaps it isn't, and the imprimatur of Cruise Critic lends credibility where it may not be deserved.

 

There's a large difference between banner ads and directly promoting an on-line agency under the email banner of Cruise Critic.

 

Hosts -- can you help us understand this better?

[Randyk47]

Have to agree with Dave. CruiseCritic is one heck of a "free" source, by far the best on the web for cruising. If the price is an occasional unsolicited offer then I guess I can accept that and delete or respond as I see fit.

 

One caution.....be very, very careful about "Opting Out" or "Unsubscribing" from unsolicited emails. This has become a way for a spammer to get your information. Typically until you hit the "Opt Out" or "Unsubsribe" link the spammer is just generating massive emails using nothing more than a random name generator. By hitting the link you've just told them that they hit a good email address. Changes are you'll subject yourself to more spamming if you do that. Put the sender on your blocked list and don't respond in any manner unless you're absolutely sure you know who you are communicating with.

[canderson]

There's also a very clear, very concise privacy policy:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/aboutus/privacy.cfm

Which says, in part:

 

1. If we at any time ask for any personal information, we will not give it out to anyone unless you tell us to do so. Also, if you choose to subscribe to our newsletter or make a purchase from our store, Cruise Critic may send you information about updates to our site, invitations to special events, promotions and fun stuff about Cruise Critic!

 

One assumes that "promotions" must include email that directs the user to a specific on-line travel agent? Would never had guessed from the wording.

 

 

Cruise Critic is advertiser supported, just as broadcast TV networks, most radio stations and general circulation newspapers and magazines.

See previous post. One comes to understand that advertising dollars are accepted and marketing materials displayed by media outlets for companies whose reputation may or may not be the best. I'm not sure I expect CC to check out all of their many advertisers to see if they're legit, but this IS a funny business -- perhaps not as bad as roof repair in hurricane areas, but you get my drift.

 

To many of us, the direct emailing under the Cruise Critic cover of pointers to sites would imply more -- that Cruise Critic has some specific faith in the product or service to which the user is pointed. Under such circumstances, if I have either a great experience or lousy experience, it's going to be much more tightly tied to my perception of the person or company who emailed me and sent me there.

 

Let me make a poor but I hope reasonable analogy:

 

If you're driving around with the name of a car dealer on your car, that's one thing. If you directly tell me I really need to take a look at that same car dealer for my business, that's something more. Whatever the outcome of any deal I have with that business, I'll be remembering you in the outcome.

 

Advertising I understand. Email makes it more of a recommendation.

[tbelian]

If anyone objects to the advertising material they receive as a consequence of their CC subscription, there is a very easy solution...

 

That's a rather simplistic approach I think. It's kind of like telling a cruiser 'hey if you don't like the 'x' policy on <name your topic> GO CRUISE ANOTHER LINE!'. We know how well that works, right?

 

There's a large difference between banner ads and directly promoting an on-line agency under the email banner of Cruise Critic.

 

Agreed. And my contention is if it's unsolicited, it still MUST comply with the can spam act, some of the specifics I outlined in my previous post above.

[dakrewser]

See previous post. One comes to understand that advertising dollars are accepted and marketing materials displayed by media outlets for companies whose reputation may or may not be the best. I'm not sure I expect CC to check out all of their many advertisers to see if they're legit, but this IS a funny business -- perhaps not as bad as roof repair in hurricane areas, but you get my drift.

 

But we've seen no evidence to lead us to think that any CC advertiser has a less than good reputation, have we?

[tbelian]

But we've seen no evidence to lead us to think that any CC advertiser has a less than good reputation, have we?

 

Well, I think the original poster put it best when they posted:

 

I called and the man said they had only 2 cabins and we must book right then (of course we have heard that one before!) but the air promotional that went with it - that we must have - was sold out. However they were getting more air and hotels and would have them this week. And he didn't handle that part. Another person in the agency took care of that. And, oh yes, there was a possibility that would go up in price - but we could go cancel. (On the website, it says no cancel)

 

That doesn't sound completely 'up and up' to me. Sorry.

[canderson]

But we've seen no evidence to lead us to think that any CC advertiser has a less than good reputation, have we?

Ah, an interesting point, and one of the reasons for my "feedback" question posed to our host earlier. There's no mechanism supplied for us to have such evidence!

 

As we are not permitted to discuss specific TA's by name here, that would be difficult to ascertain, would it not?

 

Any evidence (both good and bad with regard to a particular agency) would simply be deleted as a matter of policy. I'm not suggesting that this is the reason for the CC policy, but the end result of what is probably a good policy (one that is fairly carefully enforced by CC) is that we will never know. In a sense, that's just as well for the same reasons that the policy exists -- CC is able to avoid anonymous TA wars here.

 

The best way to get a reading on issues with particular agents is (as described earlier) to have CC put together a referral list of agents who have proven themselves willing to resolve any customer disputes in a reasonable manner, and who offer good service to their customers. For details of how such a thing may be accomplished by a company like CC that is supported by ad revenue, I would point our hosts to http://referrallist.com/ for further explanation. It's a good model. It rewards the "good guys" and penalized the "bad guys". It works.

[PeteMan]

Carol,

 

I had a quick scan through the other posts in this thread and didn't see any mention of this but can I reccomend to you (and everyone else) that you remove your email address from your signature. Leaving this in will massively increase the amount of spam that you receive.

 

To illustrate this, google for your email address and you will see that the 3rd entry is a cruise critic post. This is quite likely the source of these offers.

 

Pete

[dakrewser]

Carol,

 

I had a quick scan through the other posts in this thread and didn't see any mention of this but can I reccomend to you (and everyone else) that you remove your email address from your signature. Leaving this in will massively increase the amount of spam that you receive.

 

Excellent advice but not, I don't think, relevant in this case as the OP did say, "I received an email from CruiseCritic ..." Since we know that CC does send mailings to it's subscribers on behalf of it's advertisers, there's no reason to doubt the OP nor any reason to think this was spam sent to a harvested address.

 

Many people are extremely agitated by spam, and tarring a legitimate company with that brush can do much damage....

[LauraS]

I've already clarified that the mailing in question is a legitimate one from Cruise Critic. You can always ask me about anything you receive if you are questioning the origin.

 

As some of you have mentioned, in order to continue to provide you with Cruise Critic free of charge, we do sell advertising on the Website and in our e-letter and will send out special offers to Cruise Critic members via email blasts. The e-letter and special offer mailings go to an opt-in list of folks who have requested to subscribe to this list. Those who register for the boards are also advised that they will receive a copy of our e-letter and that they may unsubscribe if they wish. As information, if you no longer wish to subscribe to the list, there are directions for unsubscribing at the bottom of every mailing we send out. We do not give or sell your email address to anyone.

 

Your mechanism for supplying feedback to us would be e-mail. If there are any specific complaints regarding any advertising on our site or in our mailings, please send me an e-mail at community@cruisecritic.com, and I will bring it to the attention of the advertiser in question.

 

 

Laura