Two Killed in Cruise Ship Berthing Accident on Independence of the Sea

[bokkje]

Have you ever watched them untie the lines from Dolphins, at least in the Caribbean Ports that I have been to, the small boat pulls up to the dolphin, a worker releases the line and then gets straight back into the boat, the ship is now untied and the boat is within 50M:confused:

 

not all ports have the same protocall, st. kitts has 50 meters for a darn good reason

[bokkje]

and by the way, i am a dockworker, i know

[Agr8RN]

and by the way, i am a dockworker, i know

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Do you live and work in St kitts?

Do you know anything about the pier? The process? The setup? If you did - you would realize your statements are ignorant.

 

The pylons must be reached by boat in order to remove the mooring lines.

Did you expect the dockworker to play leapfrog to get to them.

 

Honestly.

[bokkje]

You don't know what you are talking about. Do you live and work in St kitts?

Do you know anything about the pier? The process? The setup? If you did - you would realize your statements are ignorant.

 

The pylons must be reached by boat in order to remove the mooring lines.

Did you expect the dockworker to play leapfrog to get to them.

 

Honestly.

 

It seems like you did not get my point, when the dockworker untied the last line, he was suppose to stay at the dolphin and get retrived AFTHER the ship had cleard the 50 meter safty zone! and yes, been to st. kittis many times

 

as a fellow docker, it´s tragic........ it seems to me to be poor training, poor equipment and bad judgement. (i´m also one of the ones in charge of safty and security at my harbours)

Edited April 8, 2014 by bokkje
adding

[sandra3022]

Independence was preparing to leave the two men in a 24 foot min boat with two outboard engines were in between our ships Celebrity silhouette independence is much longer my room was even with celebrity end of there ship. Our rear engines were on then all of a sudden the side thrusters went on clearly no from the bridge looked it shot the small boat with the men closer to the back of the celebrity boat like a toy they had no chance to do anything the I clearly saw the water swirling in the back of the celebrity ship two perfect swirls (the man on the balcony above me who is in the coast guard said he also saw there engines start ) the mix of both waters meeting capsized their boat they were screaming for them to shut the engines off . They both had life vests on but being thrown out tore on man who was slender off , didn't matter they were immediately sucked under the celebrity ship and never came back up . We were all screaming and it took 10 minutes for the swirling behind the celebrity. To stop and for some reason beyond me the independence after 15 minutes backed up enough to clear the dock and then we sat there until 9:30 or 10 pm . No one came to help from any wear for 30 minute and then it was a local diver with a snorkel and mask . Our Boat dropped two boats finally

Thy found one man at 8 pm and the other 1/2 hour later . It was awful and honestly I expected more from Royal Caribbean . They called it an unfortunate accident! I hope both captains are fired . This was completely avoidable . We were always rushing to every port yet some how always arrived late , I can't get the images out of my head a and my best friend who was with me was hysterical and in shock we called the doctor on the ship and were told he was busy and it took two days for them to call and ask how she was! So disappointed in RCCL

[bigfig63]

Just came off the MSC Divina and at our stop in San Juan I thought I was going to witness the same thing. If OSHA was on site they would have shut the operation down. The dock workers were trying to get the two aft mooring lines over a catwalk to the next pier over. In the process, they looped the lines over the bow of their rowboat and tried in vain to pull them the 60 feet to the mooring using the outboard motor. Boat would not budge and almost swamped the boat a few times trying. They kept at it and after about 15 minutes finally succeeded. Neither boats man had a life jacket and it was a comedy of errors. I felt bad for the workers as they were trying their hardest but just did not have the right equipment.

[LoveyHowell]

Prayers offered

[Agr8RN]

It seems like you did not get my point, when the dockworker untied the last line, he was suppose to stay at the dolphin and get retrived AFTHER the ship had cleard the 50 meter safty zone! and yes, been to st. kittis many times

 

as a fellow docker, it´s tragic........ it seems to me to be poor training, poor equipment and bad judgement. (i´m also one of the ones in charge of safty and security at my harbours)

 

Well that does make sense now that you clarified a bit.

 

If they don't follow safe procedures I would think the cruise line would make a stink about it as it increases their liability.

 

Sad however you look at it, regardless.

[Himbo]

[ATTACH]251639[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

junior and me on the bridge of indipendence :)

[ATTACH]251643[/ATTACH] me on the bridge

 

You look a lot like Fredrik Remo the son of Captain Remo. Maybe a coincidence?

Edited April 9, 2014 by Himbo

[Ocean Boy]

His vacation was planned the next day, no pay off or retirement. The full story will come out shortly, NO fault at indi, captain or crew

 

If you were not there dosn't that make your statement just as speculative as what you are accusing everyone else of being?

[bokkje]

If you were not there dosn't that make your statement just as speculative as what you are accusing everyone else of being?

 

Well, as i've written, the dockworker had been retrived, not according to safty regulations, this is a fact, not speculations

[bokkje]

You look a lot like Fredrik Remo the son of Captain Remo. Maybe a coincidence?

 

No coincidence, fact. That's what i'm trying to say, let's stick to facts

[Ocean Boy]

His vacation was planned the next day, no pay off or retirement. The full story will come out shortly, NO fault at indi, captain or crew

 

Well, as i've written, the dockworker had been retrived, not according to safty regulations, this is a fact, not speculations

 

We all know the dock worker was retreived. What does that have to do with the statement you made that I highlighted. The issue is what caused the accident. You were not there yet you know that it was no fault of Indy, its captain, or crew.

[bokkje]

We all know the dock worker was retreived. What does that have to do with the statement you made that I highlighted. The issue is what caused the accident. You were not there yet you know that it was no fault of Indy, its captain, or crew.

 

Well, this is a tragic accident that hopfully will be investigated and blame given, There is video evidence from several Cameras from several people/ships. Let's stick too facts and wait for the official report, no more guessing

[reallyitsmema]

You look a lot like Fredrik Remo the son of Captain Remo. Maybe a coincidence?

 

Why couldn't you ask that question with your real screen name?:rolleyes::cool:

[bokkje]

Why couldn't you ask that question with your real screen name?:rolleyes::cool:

 

Are You asking me? Or the profile that was made today?

[reallyitsmema]

Are You asking me? Or the profile that was made today?

 

I was asking the poster I quoted, the "New" poster.

[Himbo]

Why couldn't you ask that question with your real screen name?:rolleyes::cool:

 

If by real screen name you mean one that I have posted with before then the answer is I don't have one.

[seb]

If you read the statement from SCASPA, they got statements from the crews on both ships and it sounds like there was surveillance video of the incident from the Celebrity ship, which is why they didn't need to get passenger video or interview passengers (and given how wildly different the eyewitness accounts here have been, they're probably better off not taking them into account).

 

I'll just make one comment here. After 34 years in law enforcement, 18+ of it in Executive Mgt, overseeing our 150 officer Investigations division for 12 years, and teaching Internationally for 4 years, I'll just say that interviews and evidence collected by ONLY those involved in an incident is NOT a complete investigation. A DEATH investigation REQUIRES ( or should I say should require) a complete and exhaustive investigation. IMHO, this was not done.

 

I know of at least 5 people I spoke to on the ship that said they had video of the ENTIRE incident from their balcony and were never asked for it or questioned. Perhaps the ship video did capture it all, perhaps not. We'll never know now will we. But having an independent video not associated with an entry involved in this incident would certainly be something that should have been collected.

 

Like I said, I'm not going to say who was right or wrong. I don't have ALL the facts and information and unfortunately neither does SCASPA or whoever else reviews this. That's what bothers me.

[nolesrule]

I know of at least 5 people I spoke to on the ship that said they had video of the ENTIRE incident from their balcony and were never asked for it or questioned. Perhaps the ship video did capture it all, perhaps not. We'll never know now will we. But having an independent video not associated with an entry involved in this incident would certainly be something that should have been collected.

 

We're investigators made aware of this? I would hope so, but just because you know about it doesn't mean they did.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

[seb]

From one retired law enforcement executive to another, you're imposing our professional standards on another country. While what you say may be true in the US, it's hard to say the same holds true in St. Kitts.

 

I'll just rely on my background and training (I've taught Internationally as well as in US) and can state that a death investigation should contain all statements of witness and collection of evidence pertinent to the investigation. I believe the standards in St. Kitts is the same after speaking to some folks from the UK I know who are very familiar with LEA in St. Kitt.

[Himbo]

I know, the boat driver should not have retrived the dockworker before after indi had left. there is a 50 meter securety zone

 

This sounds like it should be a real regulation. Do we know if it was followed on previous Independence departures? If it was not did the Captain or crew notify the port authorities that the proper safety regulation was not being followed? If they knew it was not being followed should they have a plan in place on how to proceed if the boat is in a dangerous position? Does the boat being in a bad position prevent the Captain or crew from checking the cameras before they start they start the pods? If the thrust was being used to move away from the dock it seems they could have sat idle for a minute or so for the small boat to evacuate the area without drifting away.

 

Nothing is as simple as just a 50m safety zone, or just blaming the Captain and crew there are a lot of possible questions.

 

I am not a Dockworker or Captain or Crew. I am only a passenger.

[seb]

We're investigators made aware of this? I would hope so, but just because you know about it doesn't mean they did.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

That's the point. There was never an attempt to gather any evidence, statements or video, from anyone other than RCI personnel.

[chengkp75]

I'll just rely on my background and training (I've taught Internationally as well as in US) and can state that a death investigation should contain all statements of witness and collection of evidence pertinent to the investigation. I believe the standards in St. Kitts is the same after speaking to some folks from the UK I know who are very familiar with LEA in St. Kitt.

 

So, do you think this is a cover-up? Not being facetious, just curious.

 

While I can't say what Kittsian law enforcement procedures are, if there was any mismanagement, wouldn't that come out when the investigation procedure is reviewed by higher authority there? Perhaps there were other dock workers who saw the incident, and gave statements to the police. I'm not saying this was a "thorough and complete" investigation or not, I'm just saying that it apparently met the requirements of St. Kitts, or the ship would not have been allowed to sail.

 

While the surveillance video from RCI could be tampered with, the voice and data recorders onboard are just like on airlines, where you need to remove the hard drive to access the recordings. So, at least some impartial data exists, though it may not be all that pertinent. It would show, though, a definitive timeline, as some eyewitness posters here have claimed that the propulsion was quickly shut down, and others that it took 10 minutes. Also, the recorders on the Celebrity ship could be accessed to see if her propulsion was on at the time. Since the Silhouette was scheduled to depart one hour later than Independence, she may have been performing the required testing of the propulsion at the exact time that Independence was leaving, though I would doubt that her pods would have been pointed towards the dock during this.

[Aquahound]

From one retired law enforcement executive to another, you're imposing our professional standards on another country. While what you say may be true in the US, it's hard to say the same holds true in St. Kitts.

 

I agree. The logistics of this case is gargantuan, even for American authorities in a large port. I've worked with the authorities in St. Kitts and have tremendous respect for them, but they just do not have the resources to conduct a 100% thorough investigation of this magnitude. If a clear picture can be painted from only working with a handful of eyewitnesses, they have no choice but to be satisifed.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Aquahound