St Petersburg on our own

[spbstan]

If someone has traveled anywhere else before on their own, St Petersburg will be a snap. The city center where you will spend most of your time is compact and has great activities and sights on every block, and very hard to get lost in because there are no tall buildings in the center, over 6 stories so learning a few visual landmarks that are visible from anywhere means you know where you are even if you do not see the English street signs that are on every block. The biggest huddle is the $193 (including visa application center fee) and getting the invitation. Visa support documents can be had for $18 but if booking a tour it would be free. It would be cheaper to book a guide and no itinerary if there are more than two people. You can get all the tickets for museums, palaces and cathedrals before leaving home on a new public version of the web site the tour operators get their tickets from so you avoid lines. One of the two companies who sell the tickets to most tour operators is going "retail" but for the same price as "wholesale" tour operators pay. It is promised to be on-line by mid Jan 2015. At this moment the only on-line purchase of tickets is for the Hermitage but they charge more, for on-line($17.95) If you want to go to Catherine palace about the only way is with a tour or getting the ticket on-line after Jan, because there are strict limits on walk-up ticket purchase time, 1 hour in the afternoon, per day. The most freedom would be getting visas and using public transportation. The second most free but probably a lot more cost and time effective would be booking a guide and no tour, then no visa would be needed and she would be able to get you, even if you want to go by public transportation, to all the places you want easier and faster than on your own.

The next best would be one of the small walking tours that are as low as $40 per day, using public transportation.

A full tour with all the must sees can had for less than $200 although the companies who spend hundreds of thousands on advertising are all around $300-350 per person. That is still a decent deal compared to $193 for a visa.

If you have any questions let me know, there are few foreigners here in SPb who know the city and its history more. Especially where the bargains are.

One more option I just thought of, if there are more than two people, a low cost way of avoiding visas is booking a van and driver plus a guide for about $400 a day and pack it with 5-6 friends, all visa free and each pay $65-80 per person. You can do your own thing then. Use the guide and van if you wish or just tell them to pick you up in 2 hours and head off to another area. The ships charge $1000 for a van guide and driver and the expensive tour operators charge $600-700 but there are lower cost alternatives, many but they just do not advertize on Cruise Critic.

You can also find guides who has some specialty knowledge of what you might be interested in such as photograph, military history, dance or art.

[Lanzador]

Interesting discussion. After reading the comments of folks who have visited without a guide, I think we'll try to go it alone as well.

[Hlitner]

To answer the specific question posed by the OP, Yes, DW and I have done it on our own and had a great time. But it is Russia, and one must be prepared for some challenges. For example, one time we caught a taxi from downtown SP (near the Heritage) to the port. When we arrived at the port, the guards refused to allow our taxi to enter (and return is to our ship which was more then 1 mile from the port entrance) since the taxi did not have a port permit (they are expensive). So we were dumped at the port entrance and had to bribe a guard to give us a ride to our ship.

 

One thing we loved doing on our own was going to Peterhof. Rather then being stuck on a tour bus for the long ride, we simply took a Russian Hydrofoil from the dock across the street from the Hermitage out to Peterhof. The Hydrofoil was fast, comfy, and we loved the ride on the river. Nearly everyone on the boat seemed to be Russians.

 

Hank

[spbstan]

A few comments about DIY tours. Peterhof parks, upper and lower are certainly worth the visit be prepared for alternative transportation getting back to port from that southern palace estate. About 15% of the days in the summer, the hydrofoil is canceled due to sea height or wind. Hydrofoils are great vehicle, fast and all but they can't handle cross wind or seas over about 10 inches. Additionally, there are not many trips back and forth each day so in the afternoon you have a good chance of not getting on the boat when hundreds of people are all trying to use the same boat you are planning to return by which has 60 seats. If you have return tickets or not, you do not get on if you are 70 people back in the line to board. So be familiar with the train and minibus options and connections to get back. After being shut out dozens of times over the year, I use the Meteor only as a last option, and prefer train.

 

There was a long entertaining report about the Mafia taxi. I wanted to make sure people did not get the impression that was factual but literary license. Taxis applied for permits and proved they were not security risks(the old port was a secure cargo port and military materiel port so not everyone could go out there. If a taxi wanted to include that area they could pay for a permit and be vetted. It was not complicated, just like any international airport has the same rules. Besides, there is an internal bus running between the docks that was free so there was no reason to pay another "Mafia" taxi. Cruise ships are not dock at the old cargo port since the new passenger port has been built. It can handle 8-9 ships in port at once and has modern facilities. A taxi dispatcher kiosk is locked at the exit of each of the 3 terminals so getting from the port to the city center is a guaranteed no haggle reasonable price in modern fleet taxis. There is also a public bus with 20-30 intervals that costs 25 rubles to the nearest metro station, Primorsky Metro. From there, a quick trip to the city center, about 8 minutes including stops, for 28 rubles(about $0.50 and $0.56 respectively.

As with any dynamic fast changing city, if someone posts about any method or place to do something, double check because it has probably changed. Printed guide books are notoriously wrong about so make key facts. I wrote letters to the Publish of the Steeves books a number of years ago about serious errors that would have gotten someone in trouble if they followed the book's advice. I got a polite letter back saying that they had no plans to correct it because it did not sell well.

The only up-to-date book is free, called St Petersburg In Your Pocket and is one of dozens of booklets/guides in that series about most destination cities in Central and Eastern Europe. You can pick it up for free when here or you can go to their web site and see the same information and also has a pdf download version you can print yourself. The difference is that each of their guides are written by people living in the city they write about.

There was another comment about not wanting lines. Buying tickets before arrival takes care of that plus saves money.

For those taking organized tours, the 95+%, save some money by demanding the correct price, not the on on the web sites everyone has not questioned. The standard tour offered by a hundred companies is around $300/person. That was 9300 rubles last year. The exact same tour still costs 9300 rubles but the high profit operators are still charging $300. At the current 51 rubles to the dollar, they would make the same profit as last year if they charged $189 for 2015. People who booked 2 weeks ago should have gotten it for $132.

I checked yesterday and saw that none of the highly advertised companies have dropped their price in dollars. That represents a gigantic windfall profit for no additional services, for a couple that will mean $2-4,000,000 in additional unearned profit for the 4 months cruise season. I think that is taking advantage of their customers and is unethical.A full tour with say, 8 ticketed entrances ought to sell for less than $200 instead of the current $300-350. The ships are selling even less ethically, big bus tours for $385-400+ for tours that cost a lot less than $150 by normal pricing.

[dogs4fun]

 

For those taking organized tours, the 95+%, save some money by demanding the correct price, not the on on the web sites everyone has not questioned. The standard tour offered by a hundred companies is around $300/person. That was 9300 rubles last year. The exact same tour still costs 9300 rubles but the high profit operators are still charging $300. At the current 51 rubles to the dollar, they would make the same profit as last year if they charged $189 for 2015. People who booked 2 weeks ago should have gotten it for $132.

I checked yesterday and saw that none of the highly advertised companies have dropped their price in dollars. That represents a gigantic windfall profit for no additional services, for a couple that will mean $2-4,000,000 in additional unearned profit for the 4 months cruise season. I think that is taking advantage of their customers and is unethical.A full tour with say, 8 ticketed entrances ought to sell for less than $200 instead of the current $300-350. The ships are selling even less ethically, big bus tours for $385-400+ for tours that cost a lot less than $150 by normal pricing.

 

The cruise season does not begin until May of 2015, correct? So, if the price of the ruble increases in relation to the dollar (which, at some point, it most surely will) the price of the tours will increase. It would, IMHO, be very foolhardy for the independent tour companies to lower their prices for a service they will be providing 5 to 8 months into the future. Why would a company take the risk of compensating for the drop in the ruble when it is sure to rise prior to the beginning of the tour season? Does not make good business sense to me.

Edited December 27, 2014 by dogs4fun

[spbstan]

I don't thing you know the economy to justify the assumptions you make. First off all the services, museum tickets, guides etc are paid for in Rubles, they were essentially the same price to provide the tours for the last 8 years, and prices of the ruble to dollar did not change the ruble cost of a tour to provide. The only museum expected to rise prices in 2015 will be the Hermitage, is raising it to 500 rubles for Russian citizens who were getting a discount in the past. They will be paying the same as foreigners to their price changes but not tickets for foreigners.

 

What is going up? The major cost of a tour is guide, vehicle and museum tickets. If the Rubles gains value up to the predicted 45 to the dollar by summer no cost changes on the Russian side is expected....never has in the past. If they were using imported products and services your thesis would make sense but , they are only using local goods and services, freelance guides and vehicles rent by the hour. Last year saw a decrease in value of the ruble and prices at the retail dollar income side stayed the same. To appear to have lower cost tours several companies have introduced cheaper tours with few activities and no lunches but those do not sell well since they are just intended as loss leaders and are used to get people to call and be talked into the standard $300 tours. Fully price tours with essentially the same itinerary are $500-700 per person for two people.

If you knew the costs involved that are different for the private tours from the $300 tours you see how much some of these companies are profiting and be surprised. It is not a secret, everyone knows how this works and why 100 new companies started in the last 4 years. Some are advertising decades of experience but just came on the scene recently. Something you probably are not taking into account either is those companies who have contracts with the museums, pre-pay most of the season in January each year which further undermines the thesis that big risks are taken if fair pricing was used. The tickets you are afraid will increase...they won't...are already paid for by next month.

Contrary to the talking heads in the western press, the fundamentals of Russian economy are good, with lower debt than any EU country in total and in percentage of GDP and the exports are much more diversified than most people assume with energy only 26% of exports. The security of pension payments and debt service is assured because if oil revenue ended today, the federal budget would end the year in the black like every year since 2000. Even in 2008, when unemployment did not increase in any meaningful way, foreclosures are pretty much non-existent and over 2/3rd of Russians own their homes free and clear so not many are overly concerned other than their Italian vacations will be more expensive. The foreign trade balance surplus has just increased.

[dogs4fun]

For those taking organized tours, the 95+%, save some money by demanding the correct price, not the on on the web sites everyone has not questioned. The standard tour offered by a hundred companies is around $300/person. That was 9300 rubles last year. The exact same tour still costs 9300 rubles but the high profit operators are still charging $300. At the current 51 rubles to the dollar, they would make the same profit as last year if they charged $189 for 2015. People who booked 2 weeks ago should have gotten it for $132.

I checked yesterday and saw that none of the highly advertised companies have dropped their price in dollars. That represents a gigantic windfall profit for no additional services, for a couple that will mean $2-4,000,000 in additional unearned profit for the 4 months cruise season. I think that is taking advantage of their customers and is unethical.A full tour with say, 8 ticketed entrances ought to sell for less than $200 instead of the current $300-350. The ships are selling even less ethically, big bus tours for $385-400+ for tours that cost a lot less than $150 by normal pricing.

I think you have missed my point. Perhaps I was not clear…

My point has nothing to do with the price of admission fees to the various museums in Russia or Russia's economy in general - it has everything to do with the price of the ruble versus the USD because the USD is the currency in which the price of the tour is quoted.

I take exception to your assertion that the major tour companies are taking advantage of their customers and are unethical.

My point was: a service is offered for a fixed price - $300, $350, whatever. I think it would be foolhardy and a very poor business model to “float” the cost of the service based on the value of the ruble.

Your assumption is that those who book right now should benefit from the greater value of the dollar versus the ruble. However, the value of the ruble will surely rise – you, yourself, said that Russia has very good economic fundamentals. So, those who book now but do not utilize the services of the tour company with which they book until, for example, August, (when the value of the ruble has risen against the dollar) could actually pay less for their tour than the 2014 prices offered last year. Not good business sense unless the tour price is quoted in rubles, which it is not.

For prices quoted in UDS, I would much prefer a fixed price – that way, if the cost of the ruble (or any other currency) shot way up, I would not need to worry about paying more for my tour – I would still benefit from the fixed price. Of course, the tour companies could charge a fixed amount in rubles and then the price would automatically “float” with the currency value (greater or lesser amount when converted to USD, GPB, EURO, etc.). Independent tours in, for example, Greece, are priced in Euros. I don’t know why the Russian tour companies don’t do this – I suspect it is because the majority of their cruise passengers are north American and want the fixed price quoted in USD the same way that the cruise ship tours are priced in USD (just a wild guess).

In any event, I prefer to DIY – I get to see and do exactly what pleases only me.

For people like myself, who wish to DIY, St. Peterburg is easily manageable.

But I do understand and respect the reasons that many cruisers wish to utilize the services of the major tour providers – especially in St. Petersburg.

The cost of obtaining a visa for US citizens is approximately $300 per person (unless you are one of the fortunate few who live in close proximity to one of the 5 Russian consulates in the USA. I don’t live anywhere near a consulate and needed to add-on the fees for the visa by mail service and my total cost, including mailing was a little over $300). Therefore, the cost of a 2 day guided tour through one of the major St. Petersburg tour companies is about the same price as the cost of obtaining a visa and the cruise passengers have the added benefit of a guide, driver, meals, and all admission fees covered. If you DIY with a visa, you, yourself, must cover the cost of transportation, meals and admission fees.

When compared with the tours offered by the cruise lines, the tours offered by the major independent tour companies provide smaller groups, are more comprehensive and are usually much less expensive.

It has been my observation that many cruise passengers do not want to expend the time and effort needed to successfully DIY – some want “no hassle” vacations and prefer to leave the planning to the cruise line or tour provider. No matter the reason, it is up each individual to choose whatever best suits them!

In any event, the price of tours will depend on what the market will bear. If the price is too exorbitant, people will simply not buy. It appears from the posts on Cruise Critic that many people are quite pleased with the service they received on their tours so I would expect that the trend of booking with one of the major independent companies to continue. JMHO :)

[Bollinge]

I just wanted to know the price people paid in roubles this year, and yet despite two posts with slightly different titles, no-one has come up with an answer!

[spbstan]

Is someone paid today for the normal 2 day program every company offers($300), they would be paying 17,030 rubles and last year would have paid 9300 rubles. If they paid 2 weeks ago they would have paid 21,000 Rubles.

It appears that everyone is happy overpaying and buying another S class Mercedes for the owners. From the convoluted defence of overpaying above, prices always go up and never down with currency fluctuations and everyone should feel better for being taken advantage of. I don't feel good about it in my own purchases and avoid those businesses expect me to bear all the risk and none of the benefits.

Edited December 30, 2014 by spbstan

[DipBrat]

I don't thing you know the economy to justify the assumptions you make. First off all the services, museum tickets, guides etc are paid for in Rubles, they were essentially the same price to provide the tours for the last 8 years, and prices of the ruble to dollar did not change the ruble cost of a tour to provide. The only museum expected to rise prices in 2015 will be the Hermitage, is raising it to 500 rubles for Russian citizens who were getting a discount in the past. They will be paying the same as foreigners to their price changes but not tickets for foreigners.

 

What is going up? The major cost of a tour is guide, vehicle and museum tickets. If the Rubles gains value up to the predicted 45 to the dollar by summer no cost changes on the Russian side is expected....never has in the past. If they were using imported products and services your thesis would make sense but , they are only using local goods and services, freelance guides and vehicles rent by the hour. Last year saw a decrease in value of the ruble and prices at the retail dollar income side stayed the same. To appear to have lower cost tours several companies have introduced cheaper tours with few activities and no lunches but those do not sell well since they are just intended as loss leaders and are used to get people to call and be talked into the standard $300 tours. Fully price tours with essentially the same itinerary are $500-700 per person for two people.

If you knew the costs involved that are different for the private tours from the $300 tours you see how much some of these companies are profiting and be surprised. It is not a secret, everyone knows how this works and why 100 new companies started in the last 4 years. Some are advertising decades of experience but just came on the scene recently. Something you probably are not taking into account either is those companies who have contracts with the museums, pre-pay most of the season in January each year which further undermines the thesis that big risks are taken if fair pricing was used. The tickets you are afraid will increase...they won't...are already paid for by next month.

Contrary to the talking heads in the western press, the fundamentals of Russian economy are good, with lower debt than any EU country in total and in percentage of GDP and the exports are much more diversified than most people assume with energy only 26% of exports. The security of pension payments and debt service is assured because if oil revenue ended today, the federal budget would end the year in the black like every year since 2000. Even in 2008, when unemployment did not increase in any meaningful way, foreclosures are pretty much non-existent and over 2/3rd of Russians own their homes free and clear so not many are overly concerned other than their Italian vacations will be more expensive. The foreign trade balance surplus has just increased.

 

I think you are right on about the price of tours and (as usual) you have some good advice (on renting a vehicle for independent minded travelers).

 

While the hyperbole in the "Western Press" may be overdone you have been oversold by the Russian "press" on the fundamentals of the Russian economy. It is extremely unlikely the Ruble will be at 45/$ by summer. In fact if you want to bet on that that outcome the market will give you big payoff in the options market right now. Oil and Gas was almost 70% of exports in 2013 (source below). The budget will most likely be in deficit this year and would certainly be in deficit with zero oil revenues.

 

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=17231

[Kryssa]

This sounds like something my husband & I would do... have you (or anyone reading this) been to the Seamen's Club since 2004?

 

 

That night, after dinner we ventured out again behind the Iron Curtain. This time we had taken the sensible precaution of obtaining the address of the port in English and in Russian from the concierge.

 

“To the Seaman’s Club, Mr Mafia”. $10. There we meet many members of the crew (male and female) making friends with local and Ukrainian ladies of the evening, including the ship’s Head of Security: “I only went there to buy CDs”

 

Hmmm…Yes, they have a lot of pirate CDs and porno DVDs on sale in Russia. A photographer bought the latest “Sith” Star Wars DVD for 5 bucks and pronounced it an excellent counterfeit.

 

Outside the Seaman’s Club – it was too smoky to stay for more than one drink, “You want taksi?”. It seems almost every car in St Petersburg is a potential taxi. The guy took us back to Narvskaya station and we took the Metro to Nevsky Prospekt, the main drag. Had a great night but were tired and we got the last metro train back which arrived dead on time at 12.46 a.m. Coming out of Narvskaya station we notice it’s getting lighter already. Another ad-hoc cab and more passport perusals and we’re back on board. Fellow guests are shocked: “You went ashore on your own? At night?”

 

Next day Mr Mafia takes us downtown himself in his new Ford minibus for $20. Drops us at the Winter Palace and arranges to meet us at 4.45 p.m. to take us straight back to the ship for the 6pm sailing. We had done the metro and didn’t want any hassle getting taxis/Mafia taxis back because of our tight schedule.

 

[Bollinge]

This sounds like something my husband & I would do... have you (or anyone reading this) been to the Seamen's Club since 2004?

 

The club is still going, but I may have got the name wrong, or they have changed it. It's now the Sea Club, and they have a minibus shuttle to and from the ships. Ask the crew when you're on board:

 

https://www.facebook.com/Seaclub

[wally_bushy]

These threads develop a new life and perhaps a new topic would be in order

Read the header and then connect to where it has ended ?????

[Bollinge]

Read the header and then connect to where it has ended ?????

 

What's wrong with a mention of a visit to the Sea Club on your own?

 

You certainly wouldn't get taken there on the ship's tour!

 

New topic: "Dockside Brothels near Cruise Terminals I have visited"?

 

The Krokodil Club in Manaus brings back fond memories, and as for the Black Angus bar in San Juan, Puerto Rico.........

[spbstan]

This thread has been interesting but it sure illuminates how distant opinions are between people with different experiences or from those with opinions but no experiences.

I think it is a great idea to get out with visa if one has a specific plan, like just hanging out and meeting locals, or art or antique shopping. But for those who want to see as much as possible on a 16-17 hour period off the ship, a pre-planned tour even if just a $40 visa-free walking tour, is the most effective way to see a lot on a short time. With visas costing close to $200 for Americans, they should opt for the 3 year multiple entry visa since it costs the same and allows spontaneous visits any time one happens to be in Europe of if they find a discounted air fare.

Essentially a typical cruise tour of 2 days covers what a land tour of 5-6 days does. With prices now down to less than $200 for a full tour including all the must see museums and palaces, a cruise passenger would be getting a pretty good deal since it includes visa free entry for the same price as a visa alone.

 

As an independent traveler with a visa or with a guide who covers the legal visa free entry conditions, the long lines are primarily due to 8-16k cruisers in port the same day all wanting to see the exact same limited number of sights.

Those 8 main venues are mostly selected by habit or convention among cruisers but if someone has specific interests they can find activities and museums that have no lines on those heavy port call days. For example someone interested in art would find only 1 museum really crowded, or one interested in science or military history, they will find dozens of good museums that are almost empty.

One thing the independent visitor has a distinct advantage over group tours is access to interaction with locals. The most fascinating thing about St Petersburg is the people, particularly the young people who are remarkably well educated and well traveled and easy to meet. A lot of false beliefs that separate east and west now would melt away. I think way too much time is spent focusing on historical sites that don't really mean much to short time visitors and not enough time spent on learning what really is now and the people.

The guides all have training based on manuals writing in the 1970s by the state tourism agency and focuses on details of history that pretty much ends about 1917 so visitors leave while never getting to know what the unique city is all about and why many thousands of expats move here every year from the west To understand anything, you have to unplug your TV for a few months before coming because what they tell you and what you would discover on your own are polar opposites.

The guides do not help since they are going by an unchanging memorized narrative they develop and repeat day after day filled with a million dates and names of relatives of relatives of important figures but very very little about life now or historically.

I have talked with thousands of visitors over the last 13 year and even more dating back to my first visit in 1976 and can predict the questions visitors ask about if given the chance but don't. People want to know how things are i daily life, how big is the typical apartment, how much is a loaf of bread, what recreation and vacation habit are of locals, cost of university etc. They never seem to ask who the second cousin of Tsar Paul was and who did they marry, or what month the first brick of laid in building the Admiralty. Most guides repeat the same narrative daily for years and let little get them off script. That is the biggest weakness to the current style of tours, little of it is anything that visitors can relate to.

[spbstan]

I mentioned getting out and meeting locals because of the countries I have been, 86 and counting, St Petersburg is one of the most social and easy to meet people. An amazing number of people speak English, and are out enjoying the city instead of sitting in front of a TV set. They go to museums, theaters and concert halls regularly and socialize in cafes, pubs, coffee shops, with strangers all the time. It is quite a bit easier to get into an interesting conversation than back home in my region, California. Go to an English style pub while in the city. It will be full of fun loving mostly young professionals, the majority are young women with their girlfriends who go because of the free social atmosphere, or watch a football game(either local Zenit team or the English Premiership League. If you are at all outgoing and just say "hi" or ask a question and you will surely have an interesting conversation.

 

How long was I in SPb? Well, the first time, 5 days, in 1976. I visited about 100 times during the Soviet and RF periods and moved here in 2002 with the plan of just having fun and leading a rich cultural life. It has been tremendously fun, the best friends I have ever had are here, some from the first week having moved. If not here, I would have no idea of where to go next, every place seems so boring now in comparison.

 

For those who want to get away from the conventional tour and engage the city and residents more, and save a lot of money, a walking tour using public transportation and lots of free time to explore on a short leash. This summer should be the cheapest time ever to visit, with most purchases 1/2 price(full ruble price but converting dollars gets twice the rubles), Ships sure are not dropping prices, raising them actually so there is lots of gouging but not on the street here. Prices in the stores have changed very little, restaurants have increased prices a little, 10% for a few but most have not changed anything except they are not featuring fish from Finland anymore. Museums have not gone up. Hotels are lower, iPhones are not sold anymore, but all the other brands are on the shelf at good prices.

[Aussie Belle]

Thank you to everyone who replied to my question. It is $255 for us Aussies to get Russian visas so have decided to get our own guide. We are using a private guide called Nina Kazarina who was referred to me by Petersburg-Hautnah Tours who rate number one on Trip Advisor. If anyone has used Nina I would love to hear your comments. She has been very prompt with her replies and her English is very good. She is doing a private tour for the 4 of us and has tailored it especially for us with a lot of local sightseeing. We have included Petersgof and Hermitage and the best churches and a lot of time soaking up the local lifestyle so we are very happy with this.

[wally_bushy]

If you do not have a Russia visa but are going to use a private guide rather than a company, how are you going to disembark in St.Petersburg? We had tour tickets sent to us by Best Guides which we had to show to the Russian officials to be able to go to the city.

 

The tour guide must be a licenced person which allows you to travel in their company without you having a visa. You must have your documents to show who your guide is

[Pet Nit Noy]

Thank you to everyone who replied to my question. It is $255 for us Aussies to get Russian visas so have decided to get our own guide.

 

Missing from this debate about DIY in St. Petersburg is any discussion about the logistics of getting a Russian visa. My husband and I got our own visas for a trip that included independent time in Moscow and a river cruise from Moscow to St. Petersburg. The visa application process began with us writing to our hotel in Moscow asking for a letter of accommodation. This letter proved that we would not be vagrants sleeping in the city park during our time in Moscow. A letter of accommodation was part of the documentation we received from Viking River Cruises. And we needed to submit both letters to account for our total time in country.

 

Where would a person who visits St. Petersburg on an ocean-going cruise ship get an equivalent letter of accommodation? The cruise ship won't write a letter for you, even though that's your hotel while in SPB. After all, helping a cruiser take an independent tour isn't in the cruise line's best interests. They're trying to get you to book the ship's sponsored tours. You can consider leaving the ship during your port call in St. Petersburg and actually checking into a hotel.

 

For those who are intent on DIY, there may be a solution. Perhaps two.

 

I'm told that some third-party visa services -- the companies where you send your visa application and passport and the company makes the trip to the consulate for you -- are able to work around this hotel letter requirement. Since we lived close to Washington DC, I've never used any of these visa services. I don't know the names of any to recommend. I don't know which ones -- if any -- have a special relationship with the Russian consulate to end run the hotel letter requirement.

 

Just now, I visited the official Russian web site for tourist visas. The requirement for a hotel is still part of the explanatory text. However, there's a new development since our trip. The web site refers to a service run by a division of the Russian consulate called the Russian National Group. This service will fill out your visa application for $100 fee and process it for the additional cost of the visa. (1 day costs $605. 2 days costs $505. Four days costs $355. The huge swing in price is the processing fee. It's $292 for a one-day visa and $72 for a four day visa.)

 

Perhaps by using this service, cruisers don't need to provide hotel information.

 

http://russianconsulate.com/tourist_visa.htm

 

http://www.russia-travel.com/apply-for-a-visa/visas-to-russia/

[Bollinge]

Missing from this debate about DIY in St. Petersburg is any discussion about the logistics of getting a Russian visa.

 

Where would a person who visits St. Petersburg on an ocean-going cruise ship get a letter of invitation from? (to accompany the visa application)

 

Right here, from the Russian Tourist Office:

 

http://www.visitrussia.org.uk/visa/invitation.php

Edited February 2, 2015 by Bollinge

[cruisemom42]

I think way too much time is spent focusing on historical sites that don't really mean much to short time visitors and not enough time spent on learning what really is now and the people.

 

The guides do not help since they are going by an unchanging memorized narrative they develop and repeat day after day filled with a million dates and names of relatives of relatives of important figures but very very little about life now or historically.

 

I have talked with thousands of visitors over the last 13 year and even more dating back to my first visit in 1976 and can predict the questions visitors ask about if given the chance but don't. People want to know how things are i daily life, how big is the typical apartment, how much is a loaf of bread, what recreation and vacation habit are of locals, cost of university etc. They never seem to ask who the second cousin of Tsar Paul was and who did they marry, or what month the first brick of laid in building the Admiralty. Most guides repeat the same narrative daily for years and let little get them off script. That is the biggest weakness to the current style of tours, little of it is anything that visitors can relate to.

 

I must be a real anomaly. I care about history, dates, and all that good stuff and have very little interest in how big someone's apartment may be and how much their groceries cost.

 

The worst marks I ever gave a tour guide were to one who started out our tour by saying "I won't give you a lot of facts and figures, because you will only forget them anyway." :rolleyes: It became clear pretty quickly that this guide did not have the knowledge to impart to us -- in other words, it wasn't a choice made to better our day but because she really did not know her facts.

 

It is perhaps "harder" to appreciate the complexities of history than to draw the simpler connections. But without an understanding of the history involved, it is difficult to know HOW things came to be the way they are and WHY people in a given country have the beliefs and attitudes that characterize them and their culture.

 

What is it they say? "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it..."

[Pet Nit Noy]

Right here, from the Russian Tourist Office:

 

http://www.visitrussia.org.uk/visa/invitation.php

 

I'd be curious to hear from someone who has requested a letter of invitation from the Russian National Tourist Office. I'm curious to learn who is validating that you'll be staying where you claim you'll be staying. If I fill in [insert favorite ship's name here] in the place where I'm asked to provide an address while in St. Petersburg and, then, return the form to the Russian Tourist Office, who verifies my information. In the previous system, when the letter was issued by a Russian hotel, the consulate could be confident that the information was accurate.

 

It's my understanding that a ship arriving for the first time in any country clears its passengers for entry into the country in the hours before we're allowed to disembark the ship. When using the services of the Russian National Tourist Office, the visa will be issued before the ship arrives in SPB along with the passenger manifest.

 

I mean Russia is not exactly a casual country. I'm more than a little curious to learn just how trusting of its visitors Russia has become.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Pet Nit Noy

[dogs4fun]

I care about history, dates, and all that good stuff and have very little interest in how big someone's apartment may be and how much their groceries cost.

 

The worst marks I ever gave a tour guide were to one who started out our tour by saying "I won't give you a lot of facts and figures, because you will only forget them anyway." :rolleyes: It became clear pretty quickly that this guide did not have the knowledge to impart to us -- in other words, it wasn't a choice made to better our day but because she really did not know her facts.

 

It is perhaps "harder" to appreciate the complexities of history than to draw the simpler connections. But without an understanding of the history involved, it is difficult to know HOW things came to be the way they are and WHY people in a given country have the beliefs and attitudes that characterize them and their culture.

 

What is it they say? "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it..."

 

Well said. My thoughts, exactly! :)

[dogs4fun]

I'd be curious to hear from someone who has requested a letter of invitation from the Russian National Tourist Office. I'm curious to learn who is validating that you'll be staying where you claim you'll be staying. If I fill in [insert favorite ship's name here] in the place where I'm asked to provide an address while in St. Petersburg and, then, return the form to the Russian Tourist Office, who verifies my information. In the previous system, when the letter was issued by a Russian hotel, the consulate could be confident that the information was accurate.

 

It's my understanding that a ship arriving for the first time in any country clears its passengers for entry into the country in the hours before we're allowed to disembark the ship. When using the services of the Russian National Tourist Office, the visa will be issued before the ship arrives in SPB along with the passenger manifest.

 

I mean Russia is not exactly a casual country. I'm more than a little curious to learn just how trusting of its visitors Russia has become.

 

If I have misunderstood your question, I apologize in advance.

I am assuming that if you are arriving/departing via cruise ship, your stay in Russia will be 72 hours or less.

You have 7 business days (excluding weekends and holidays) to register your visa (this is a new regulation valid as of 25 March 2011 – before that you had to register in 3 working days, which is not the case anymore). Thus, you will not need to worry about having the type of registration documentation that I needed when I departed Russia via air (I was in Russia for a month).

You will not need to register your visa because you will be in Russia for less than 7 days. Hence, no need to worry about who will be validating where you claim to be staying. No one will ask for any type of documentation. :)

Edited February 2, 2015 by dogs4fun

[Bollinge]

I'd be curious to hear from someone who has requested a letter of invitation from the Russian National Tourist Office. I'm curious to learn who is validating that you'll be staying where you claim you'll be staying.

 

The immigration officer will see the visa, backed up by your invitation from the Russian National Tourist Office, issued by his government's consulate in your country, and stamped in your passport.

 

If he has any doubts as to your place of abode whilst in Russia, he need only cast his gaze in front of him to the behemoth of a cruise liner from which he may have just watched you disembark........and to which you will inevitably return.

 

The last time we went solo, I think we got a free invitation from Denrus.

 

It was much less hassle then, as now the Russians want us to attend the consulate to take fingerprints for the visa, and demand two empty pages on your passport!

Edited February 2, 2015 by Bollinge