Who gets the tip???

[abe3]

I am quite happy not to have a clue. NCL tells me it expects a Daily Service Charge from me and a service charge of 18% added to drinks etc and that I have no other obligation. I see no need for me to agonise over who gets what out of these amounts, that is for NCL management and the crew and I think those crew who are not happy are free to not ask for their contracts to be renewed. I don't see a lot of servers who seem unhappy with this. What I do see is a lot of them many times over the years on different ships that remember me from 4, 5, even 6 years. I just don't get all of this angst over who gets what and I doubt if I ever will. It is between NCL and their employees and I'm good with that as it really is not any of my business.

 

 

Best post on this thread!

[GUT2407]

I am quite happy not to have a clue. NCL tells me it expects a Daily Service Charge from me and a service charge of 18% added to drinks etc and that I have no other obligation. I see no need for me to agonise over who gets what out of these amounts, that is for NCL management and the crew and I think those crew who are not happy are free to not ask for their contracts to be renewed. I don't see a lot of servers who seem unhappy with this. What I do see is a lot of them many times over the years on different ships that remember me from 4, 5, even 6 years. I just don't get all of this angst over who gets what and I doubt if I ever will. It is between NCL and their employees and I'm good with that as it really is not any of my business.

 

Off topic perhaps, but it never ceases to amaze when a crew member recognizes you years later, greets you by name and remembers your preferences.

[canadianeh934]

No. I give them cash and whatever arrangement they have worked out is fine.

 

If their management said give us the cash, we'll set some aside for an incentive program and then decide how much to give them, yeah I'd be asking questions.

 

Exactly.....

 

Cash is king as the individual you are giving it to can decide what they will do with it. When it is a write in, then the company decides!

[swedish weave]

If I am charged a "Service Charge" daily, should I have the right to know how much of that goes to the people who provide me service??

 

If I tip in cash, I know who gets what amount, so wouldn't I be better served to remove the DSC and use cash to reward those who provided me the service ??

 

Can anyone tell me why my "Service Charge" should be distributed to those on other ships who have given me NO SERVICE ?

[dd2355]

If I am charged a "Service Charge" daily, should I have the right to know how much of that goes to the people who provide me service??

 

Should you? That's your own call. Do you have a right? No. There's no moral or legal obligation for the cruise line to provide that info if they don't wish to do so.

 

On the other hand, you do have the right to not patronize cruise lines who don't provide that info.

 

 

If I tip in cash, I know who gets what amount, so wouldn't I be better served to remove the DSC and use cash to reward those who provided me the service ??

How do you equitably handle cash tips to the myriad of service employees who provide service to you but you don't see on a regular basis like your steward?

 

Can anyone tell me why my "Service Charge" should be distributed to those on other ships who have given me NO SERVICE ?

Where did you read that? I'm genuinely curious, I've done some searches but can't find anything saying that happens so I've not found the same reference you must have read it from. Do you have a link?

Edited October 3, 2015 by dd2355

[SuiteCruiser]

I always keep the DSC in place, but I don't think it's that odd that a person shouldd want to know if their cash tips go to the staff or not. I know for a fact that the tips that you give to the casino staff do not go to the casino staff unless they hit a quota that is fairly difficult to reach.

 

Does that stop me from tipping the casino staff? No it does the opposite, in that I know they need even more to see any of it.

 

NCL keeps a large amount of the tips for the casino staff, do they do the same with their other staff? Why wouldn't they?

 

Full scenario explained to me by someone who used to work on NCL. Current staff are not allowed to share that information.

Edited October 3, 2015 by SuiteCruiser

[swedish weave]

Should you? That's your own call. Do you have a right? No. There's no moral or legal obligation for the cruise line to provide that info if they don't wish to do so.

 

On the other hand, you do have the right to not patronize cruise lines who don't provide that info.

 

 

 

How do you equitably handle cash tips to the myriad of service employees who provide service to you but you don't see on a regular basis like your steward?

 

 

Where did you read that? I'm genuinely curious, I've done some searches but can't find anything saying that happens so I've not found the same reference you must have read it from. Do you have a link?

 

To answer your question regarding DSC going to people on other ships, all you need to do is read NCL website information on how the DSC is handled. A portion is used FLEETWIDE.

 

Cash tips are easy to distribute because if you jst look around and ask questions, you will see the same people working different venues at different times of the day.

 

And the other comment is partially correct. The cruise line has no more obligation to tell me how the moneyu is distributed than I have to allow them to do as they please with it, to the obvious recourse is to eliminate the DSC. That is possible even though NCL is trying to make it difficult.

 

Your suggestion to use another cruise line is valid, and I may choose to do that. It will be my decision if that happens.

[dd2355]

To answer your question regarding DSC going to people on other ships, all you need to do is read NCL website information on how the DSC is handled. A portion is used FLEETWIDE.

That's just the thing, out of curiosity was trying to find it but couldn't. Closest I found on NCL's site was this: https://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

 

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

Are you interpreting the last sentence as distribution fleet-wide rather than within that ship?

Edited October 3, 2015 by dd2355

[swedish weave]

That's just the thing, out of curiosity was trying to find it but couldn't. Closest I found on NCL's site was this: https://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

 

 

Are you interpreting the last sentence as distribution fleet-wide rather than within that ship?

 

Keep looking ! You will find it. It has been posted on CC a few times recently.

[LMaxwell]

That's just the thing, out of curiosity was trying to find it but couldn't. Closest I found on NCL's site was this: https://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

 

 

Are you interpreting the last sentence as distribution fleet-wide rather than within that ship?

 

It is on the Guest Ticket Contract. Section 3C (page 2).

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

Please excuse the formatting, it is copied from the PDF

 

Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary

and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge ,

which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is

intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employees

according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier

is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

Edited October 3, 2015 by LMaxwell

[dd2355]

Keep looking ! You will find it. It has been posted on CC a few times recently.

 

This is an example of the "burden of proof" logical fallacy.

 

As you are the one familiar with the information and claiming it to be true, it is your responsibility to provide the reference/citation to support your assertion.

[dd2355]

It is on the Guest Ticket Contract. Section 3C (page 2).

 

http://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Guest_Ticket_Contract_03_2014.pdf

 

Bingo! There we go. Thank you, LMaxwell.

[LMaxwell]

Bingo! There we go. Thank you, LMaxwell.

 

You're welcome.

 

The contract can be found on the front page of NCL.com. It is the first link under 'Downloads' towards bottom of the page and labeled as Guest Ticket Contract.

[swedish weave]

This is an example of the "burden of proof" logical fallacy.

 

As you are the one familiar with the information and claiming it to be true, it is your responsibility to provide the reference/citation to support your assertion.

 

WRONG !!! I only accept responsibility if it is accompanied by a substantial salary !!!

[LMaxwell]

Maxwell -- You are making it too easy for those who dispute posts !!! lol

 

I allow them to do their own research !!

 

Notice that the info from NCL doesn't say that the people who serve you are entitled to ANY of the DSC.

 

You are right, nothing says they are entitled to any of it and that ties into the following portion which concerns me:

 

"is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance"

 

So it is not based on whether *I* think someone did a good job. It is based on internal scoring and metrics. Perhaps we have a room steward who is just FANTASTIC. Attentive. Friendly. Omnipresent. Keeps our room a model of what NCL would show in a brochure. But it takes them 2 minutes more than alloted to do the room. Did that 2 minutes cause a large enough ding in their internal scores to prevent them from earning the maximum DSC cut? Don't know.

 

All I know is from years of personal experience that when money gets handed to an employer first, and then distributed, the distribution is almost never equitable. The best get penalized. The worst get a free ride, of sorts. Almost in all cases the employer has sticky fingers in the pot. I prefer to give those that provide me directly with service their tip in cash. Those behind the scenes people deserve to be paid fairly for the job they do. That payment is part of OpEx and should come from revenue. How on Earth is it fair to assign a metric to a laundry worker or dishwasher and then give them some portion of a discretionary charge? They are not providing any guest facing service. They are there to maintain the functions of the employers hotel facilities. Their wage should be static and in line with the work performed. The company policy guilts people into paying the behind the scenes workers when they themselves don't feel any compunction to pay them. The fact that behind the scenes workers are paid out of DSC is a tacit admission that DSC is viewed by the company firstly as revenue!

 

Ever wonder why new ships are flagged in the Bahamas or in North African or Central American countries? It is purely so the carrier can reduce their OpEx by not having to pay support staff fair wages. Look at the massive stink Royal Caribbean caused 10 years ago when they moved from being flagged in Norway to being flagged in the Bahamas and even their OFFICERS AND STAFF got majorly screwed by the company on pay and benefits. Or look at what Carnival did to their pension plan for staff. Screwed them too. Princess did this just last year; they take all their DSC and pool them to distribute across the fleet. Workers screwed again.

 

I am not a cheap person. I pay every single obligation I have in life. A gratuity is not an obligation, but I know how hard the crew on cruise ships work to deliver an enjoyable vacation. *I* will base what I give them as a thank you on the services I receive. Sometimes service isn't good; the reward won't be good. Sometimes the service is excellent, the reward will be excellent. I won't "ding" someone because they took a minute too long to do something. If they work hard, are friendly, attentive, and do their jobs well they will be rewarded well, probably better than putting money in a pot to be shaved, chiseled, divided, and distributed weeks later.

 

25 years cruising and paying cash was never a problem. I have to believe behind the scenes workers were paid fairly back then. Only in the last 5 years, maybe 7 or so, has this DSC phenomenon surfaced and if you are not 100% in support of this program you are labeled as scum of the Earth. Some people just need to be educated on what really goes on. Half of it is in plain sight.

 

As usual, I agree with you fundamentally Swedish Weave

Edited October 3, 2015 by LMaxwell

[GUT2407]

You are right, nothing says they are entitled to any of it and that ties into the following portion which concerns me:

 

"is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance"

 

So it is not based on whether *I* think someone did a good job. It is based on internal scoring and metrics. Perhaps we have a room steward who is just FANTASTIC. Attentive. Friendly. Omnipresent. Keeps our room a model of what NCL would show in a brochure. But it takes them 2 minutes more than alloted to do the room. Did that 2 minutes cause a large enough ding in their internal scores to prevent them from earning the maximum DSC cut? Don't know.

 

All I know is from years of personal experience that when money gets handed to an employer first, and then distributed, the distribution is almost never equitable. The best get penalized. The worst get a free ride, of sorts. Almost in all cases the employer has sticky fingers in the pot. I prefer to give those that provide me directly with service their tip in cash. Those behind the scenes people deserve to be paid fairly for the job they do. That payment is part of OpEx and should come from revenue. How on Earth is it fair to assign a metric to a laundry worker or dishwasher and then give them some portion of a discretionary charge? They are not providing any guest facing service. They are there to maintain the functions of the employers hotel facilities. Their wage should be static and in line with the work performed. The company policy guilts people into paying the behind the scenes workers when they themselves don't feel any compunction to pay them.

 

Ever wonder why new ships are flagged in the Bahamas or in North African or Central American countries? It is purely so the carrier can reduce their OpEx by not having to pay support staff fair wages. Look at the massive stink Royal Caribbean caused 10 years ago when they moved from being flagged in Norway to being flagged in the Bahamas and even their OFFICERS AND STAFF got majorly screwed by the company on pay and benefits. Or look at what Carnival did to their pension plan for staff. Screwed them too. Princess did this just last year; they take all their DSC and pool them to distribute across the fleet. Workers screwed again.

 

I am not a cheap person. I pay every single obligation I have in life. A gratuity is not an obligation, but I know how hard the crew on cruise ships work to deliver an enjoyable vacation. *I* will base what I give them as a thank you on the services I receive. Sometimes service isn't good; the reward won't be good. Sometimes the service is excellent, the reward will be excellent. I won't "ding" someone because they took a minute too long to do something. If they work hard, are friendly, attentive, and do their jobs well they will be rewarded well, probably better than putting money in a pot to be shaved, chiseled, divided, and distributed weeks later.

 

25 years cruising and paying cash was never a problem. I have to believe behind the scenes workers were paid fairly back then. Only in the last 5 years, maybe 7 or so, has this DSC phenomenon surfaced and if you are not 100% in support of this program you are labeled as scum of the Earth. Some people just need to be educated on what really goes on. Half of it is in plain sight.

 

As usual, I agree with you fundamentally Swedish Weave

 

 

Wow a sensible post on the topic thank you.

[swedish weave]

You are right, nothing says they are entitled to any of it and that ties into the following portion which concerns me:

 

"is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance"

 

So it is not based on whether *I* think someone did a good job. It is based on internal scoring and metrics. Perhaps we have a room steward who is just FANTASTIC. Attentive. Friendly. Omnipresent. Keeps our room a model of what NCL would show in a brochure. But it takes them 2 minutes more than alloted to do the room. Did that 2 minutes cause a large enough ding in their internal scores to prevent them from earning the maximum DSC cut? Don't know.

 

All I know is from years of personal experience that when money gets handed to an employer first, and then distributed, the distribution is almost never equitable. The best get penalized. The worst get a free ride, of sorts. Almost in all cases the employer has sticky fingers in the pot. I prefer to give those that provide me directly with service their tip in cash. Those behind the scenes people deserve to be paid fairly for the job they do. That payment is part of OpEx and should come from revenue. How on Earth is it fair to assign a metric to a laundry worker or dishwasher and then give them some portion of a discretionary charge? They are not providing any guest facing service. They are there to maintain the functions of the employers hotel facilities. Their wage should be static and in line with the work performed. The company policy guilts people into paying the behind the scenes workers when they themselves don't feel any compunction to pay them. The fact that behind the scenes workers are paid out of DSC is a tacit admission that DSC is viewed by the company firstly as revenue!

 

Ever wonder why new ships are flagged in the Bahamas or in North African or Central American countries? It is purely so the carrier can reduce their OpEx by not having to pay support staff fair wages. Look at the massive stink Royal Caribbean caused 10 years ago when they moved from being flagged in Norway to being flagged in the Bahamas and even their OFFICERS AND STAFF got majorly screwed by the company on pay and benefits. Or look at what Carnival did to their pension plan for staff. Screwed them too. Princess did this just last year; they take all their DSC and pool them to distribute across the fleet. Workers screwed again.

 

I am not a cheap person. I pay every single obligation I have in life. A gratuity is not an obligation, but I know how hard the crew on cruise ships work to deliver an enjoyable vacation. *I* will base what I give them as a thank you on the services I receive. Sometimes service isn't good; the reward won't be good. Sometimes the service is excellent, the reward will be excellent. I won't "ding" someone because they took a minute too long to do something. If they work hard, are friendly, attentive, and do their jobs well they will be rewarded well, probably better than putting money in a pot to be shaved, chiseled, divided, and distributed weeks later.

 

25 years cruising and paying cash was never a problem. I have to believe behind the scenes workers were paid fairly back then. Only in the last 5 years, maybe 7 or so, has this DSC phenomenon surfaced and if you are not 100% in support of this program you are labeled as scum of the Earth. Some people just need to be educated on what really goes on. Half of it is in plain sight.

 

As usual, I agree with you fundamentally Swedish Weave

 

Where is the like button ???

 

You will probably be attacked for this, but your comments are spot on.

[SuiteCruiser]

You are right, nothing says they are entitled to any of it and that ties into the following portion which concerns me:

 

"is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance"

 

So it is not based on whether *I* think someone did a good job. It is based on internal scoring and metrics. Perhaps we have a room steward who is just FANTASTIC. Attentive. Friendly. Omnipresent. Keeps our room a model of what NCL would show in a brochure. But it takes them 2 minutes more than alloted to do the room. Did that 2 minutes cause a large enough ding in their internal scores to prevent them from earning the maximum DSC cut? Don't know.

 

All I know is from years of personal experience that when money gets handed to an employer first, and then distributed, the distribution is almost never equitable. The best get penalized. The worst get a free ride, of sorts. Almost in all cases the employer has sticky fingers in the pot. I prefer to give those that provide me directly with service their tip in cash. Those behind the scenes people deserve to be paid fairly for the job they do. That payment is part of OpEx and should come from revenue. How on Earth is it fair to assign a metric to a laundry worker or dishwasher and then give them some portion of a discretionary charge? They are not providing any guest facing service. They are there to maintain the functions of the employers hotel facilities. Their wage should be static and in line with the work performed. The company policy guilts people into paying the behind the scenes workers when they themselves don't feel any compunction to pay them. The fact that behind the scenes workers are paid out of DSC is a tacit admission that DSC is viewed by the company firstly as revenue!

 

Ever wonder why new ships are flagged in the Bahamas or in North African or Central American countries? It is purely so the carrier can reduce their OpEx by not having to pay support staff fair wages. Look at the massive stink Royal Caribbean caused 10 years ago when they moved from being flagged in Norway to being flagged in the Bahamas and even their OFFICERS AND STAFF got majorly screwed by the company on pay and benefits. Or look at what Carnival did to their pension plan for staff. Screwed them too. Princess did this just last year; they take all their DSC and pool them to distribute across the fleet. Workers screwed again.

 

I am not a cheap person. I pay every single obligation I have in life. A gratuity is not an obligation, but I know how hard the crew on cruise ships work to deliver an enjoyable vacation. *I* will base what I give them as a thank you on the services I receive. Sometimes service isn't good; the reward won't be good. Sometimes the service is excellent, the reward will be excellent. I won't "ding" someone because they took a minute too long to do something. If they work hard, are friendly, attentive, and do their jobs well they will be rewarded well, probably better than putting money in a pot to be shaved, chiseled, divided, and distributed weeks later.

 

25 years cruising and paying cash was never a problem. I have to believe behind the scenes workers were paid fairly back then. Only in the last 5 years, maybe 7 or so, has this DSC phenomenon surfaced and if you are not 100% in support of this program you are labeled as scum of the Earth. Some people just need to be educated on what really goes on. Half of it is in plain sight.

 

As usual, I agree with you fundamentally Swedish Weave

 

I agree 100%. I still leave the DSC as it's not a lot of money, and I'm a bit of a sheep, but do tip extra to ensure the person doing the excellent work actually receives it.

 

I will no longer add anything to a slip though, I will hand that person cash.

Edited October 3, 2015 by SuiteCruiser

[rochelle_s]

You are right, nothing says they are entitled to any of it and that ties into the following portion which concerns me:

 

"is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance"

 

So it is not based on whether *I* think someone did a good job. It is based on internal scoring and metrics. Perhaps we have a room steward who is just FANTASTIC. Attentive. Friendly. Omnipresent. Keeps our room a model of what NCL would show in a brochure. But it takes them 2 minutes more than alloted to do the room. Did that 2 minutes cause a large enough ding in their internal scores to prevent them from earning the maximum DSC cut? Don't know.

 

All I know is from years of personal experience that when money gets handed to an employer first, and then distributed, the distribution is almost never equitable. The best get penalized. The worst get a free ride, of sorts. Almost in all cases the employer has sticky fingers in the pot. I prefer to give those that provide me directly with service their tip in cash. Those behind the scenes people deserve to be paid fairly for the job they do. That payment is part of OpEx and should come from revenue. How on Earth is it fair to assign a metric to a laundry worker or dishwasher and then give them some portion of a discretionary charge? They are not providing any guest facing service. They are there to maintain the functions of the employers hotel facilities. Their wage should be static and in line with the work performed. The company policy guilts people into paying the behind the scenes workers when they themselves don't feel any compunction to pay them. The fact that behind the scenes workers are paid out of DSC is a tacit admission that DSC is viewed by the company firstly as revenue!

 

Ever wonder why new ships are flagged in the Bahamas or in North African or Central American countries? It is purely so the carrier can reduce their OpEx by not having to pay support staff fair wages. Look at the massive stink Royal Caribbean caused 10 years ago when they moved from being flagged in Norway to being flagged in the Bahamas and even their OFFICERS AND STAFF got majorly screwed by the company on pay and benefits. Or look at what Carnival did to their pension plan for staff. Screwed them too. Princess did this just last year; they take all their DSC and pool them to distribute across the fleet. Workers screwed again.

 

I am not a cheap person. I pay every single obligation I have in life. A gratuity is not an obligation, but I know how hard the crew on cruise ships work to deliver an enjoyable vacation. *I* will base what I give them as a thank you on the services I receive. Sometimes service isn't good; the reward won't be good. Sometimes the service is excellent, the reward will be excellent. I won't "ding" someone because they took a minute too long to do something. If they work hard, are friendly, attentive, and do their jobs well they will be rewarded well, probably better than putting money in a pot to be shaved, chiseled, divided, and distributed weeks later.

 

25 years cruising and paying cash was never a problem. I have to believe behind the scenes workers were paid fairly back then. Only in the last 5 years, maybe 7 or so, has this DSC phenomenon surfaced and if you are not 100% in support of this program you are labeled as scum of the Earth. Some people just need to be educated on what really goes on. Half of it is in plain sight.

 

As usual, I agree with you fundamentally Swedish Weave

 

 

I also 100% agree with you.

 

I leave my DSC in place but I do feel that those who directly serve me would benefit far better if done the old fashioned way.

 

 

Rochelle

[Jane Don]

The cruise lines love the DSC. Make no mistake, its implementation has nothing to do with preventing the staff from getting stiffed.

 

 

• The cruise line gets to account for DSC as revenue. When you pay cash, the money doesn't touch their books, but whether they return 100%, 80%. 20% or none of it to the crew, on paper the DSC increases sales revenue.
  
• The cruise lines get to set their own metrics for service standards. My desires for service and the cruise lines are in direct conflict. They want up sells and reduced costs, I want personal attention. The incentive program removes control from the passenger to determine what constitutes excellent service.
  
• NCL includes supervisory and other management positions in the DSC pool. Again, a direct conflict with a true gratuity for service model.
  
• I do not tip the dishwasher or laundry attendant on land. They don't serve me. They don't have to come to work and be 'on'. In the back of house people laugh, chat, listen to music while those in front must constantly interact with the public professionally. That is why we tip them, for serving us personally.
  

As long as I am within my rights to provide the crew with cash instead of DSC, I will do that. When the day comes that NCL disallows my method, I will sail elsewhere. If they want to distribute my tips on my behalf, the least they could do is provide an accounting of how that is done. Otherwise I will make the decisions.

[GUT2407]

I also 100% agree with you.

 

I leave my DSC in place but I do feel that those who directly serve me would benefit far better if done the old fashioned way.

 

 

Rochelle

 

And I suspect the passengers would benefit too.

[sjbdtz]

If I am charged a "Service Charge" daily, should I have the right to know how much of that goes to the people who provide me service??

 

No

 

If I tip in cash, I know who gets what amount,

 

No you don't. You have no idea who gets tipped-out from that cash, or whether the cash is pooled. I can assure you that no good server ever manages the service unaided. They're supported by the bartender, the busperson, the cooks, the dishwasher, their assistant, the dining room manager, the hostess, etc.

 

If the hostess seats your section to fast you won't keep up. If your assistant isn't refilling bread & beverages you get blamed. If the dishes are dirty, you're doing two runs when one should have sufficed. If the tables aren't bussed quickly, you won't get as many table-turns in an evening.

 

The dollar you hand to a server is probably shared in some percentage with all of these people WHO SERVED YOU without you coming face-to-face with them. You get 10%, and you get 10%, and you get 10%.... http://www.restaurantinsider.net/server-tip-out-amount/

 

 

 

 

Can anyone tell me why my "Service Charge" should be distributed to those on other ships who have given me NO SERVICE ?

 

I can! Because the charge is FOR SERVICE, not for THIS service. And because crew frequently switch ships, some element of fleet-wide benefit covers them too.

 

 

 

You are right, nothing says they are entitled to any of it and that ties into the following portion which concerns me:

 

"is distributed to employees according to Carrier's evaluation of job performance"

 

So it is not based on whether *I* think someone did a good job. It is based on internal scoring and metrics. Perhaps we have a room steward who is just FANTASTIC. Attentive. Friendly. Omnipresent. Keeps our room a model of what NCL would show in a brochure. But it takes them 2 minutes more than alloted to do the room. Did that 2 minutes cause a large enough ding in their internal scores to prevent them from earning the maximum DSC cut? Don't know.

 

All I know is from years of personal experience that when money gets handed to an employer first, and then distributed, the distribution is almost never equitable. The best get penalized.

 

 

In your scenario, the room steward who ONLY services your room would have the biggest impact on your happiness. But the other 12 rooms which go unattended would be unhappy.

 

What makes more sense? 1 very happy / 12 unhappy.....or 13 moderately happy?

 

Only in unionized environments are people not individually rated & rewarded. I can speak from experience however that the 'best' do not get penalized, they are in fact rewarded and promoted as the enterprise seeks to encourage others to replicate (Best Practices) that 'best' behavior pattern. This is the carrot, in the proverbial carrot & stick scenario.

 

 

25 years cruising and paying cash was never a problem. I have to believe behind the scenes workers were paid fairly back then. Only in the last 5 years, maybe 7 or so, has this DSC phenomenon surfaced and if you are not 100% in support of this program you are labeled as scum of the Earth. Some people just need to be educated on what really goes on. Half of it is in plain sight.

 

As usual, I agree with you fundamentally Swedish Weave

 

As you have indicated that some people just need to be educated, please allow me.

 

Before the DSC, waitstaff worked in a particular restaurant, with a fixed set of co-workers and used the tip-out method described in the link above.

 

When FreeStyle introduced dining options, and crew were moved from venue-to-venue on short-notice, forming & unforming teams on-the-fly, a broader system to reward them was needed.

 

The reason people get upset at those who want to unravel the system, is that the system works for the people who are in it. It provides consistency of income (rather than the variability of HOPING somebody tips you), and enables crew to determine their own rankings in the sense that...if you know the metrics used to rank you, you can work to improve your rankings.

 

When the control rests with an ever-changing guest list with different customs, priorities, perspectives, etc. then not only do you have no idea from room-to-room, or from week-to-week what behavior pattern will elicit the best income ( some people want to be attended to, others want to be left alone)....and in some cases you may perform exactly as the guest considered ideal, but it's not in their culture to even think of offering anything.

 

 

So for these reasons, I leave the DSC in place and rely on anecdotal feedback from crew I've spoken with, and from fellow cruisers with strong NCL connections to reassure me that both the cruiseline AND the crew are happier with the DSC than without it.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

[maywell]

I am quite happy not to have a clue. NCL tells me it expects a Daily Service Charge from me and a service charge of 18% added to drinks etc and that I have no other obligation. I see no need for me to agonise over who gets what out of these amounts, that is for NCL management and the crew and I think those crew who are not happy are free to not ask for their contracts to be renewed. I don't see a lot of servers who seem unhappy with this. What I do see is a lot of them many times over the years on different ships that remember me from 4, 5, even 6 years. I just don't get all of this angst over who gets what and I doubt if I ever will. It is between NCL and their employees and I'm good with that as it really is not any of my business.

 

Probably the best answer/post in the thread - I sign the receipt when I get my drink and if I wish to tip more on top , either cash or on the sail account; doesn't matter because, well I'm on vacation. Not my problem nor issue to figure out a how a Cruise line compensates their employees - My issue is are the employees good / competent enough to make my drink, clean up my room before I get back in the evening, not drop a plate on me in La Cucina or O'Sheenan's, etc? And the answer is on NCL - Yes, they are.

[swedish weave]

No

 

 

 

No you don't. You have no idea who gets tipped-out from that cash, or whether the cash is pooled. I can assure you that no good server ever manages the service unaided. They're supported by the bartender, the busperson, the cooks, the dishwasher, their assistant, the dining room manager, the hostess, etc.

 

If the hostess seats your section to fast you won't keep up. If your assistant isn't refilling bread & beverages you get blamed. If the dishes are dirty, you're doing two runs when one should have sufficed. If the tables aren't bussed quickly, you won't get as many table-turns in an evening.

 

The dollar you hand to a server is probably shared in some percentage with all of these people WHO SERVED YOU without you coming face-to-face with them. You get 10%, and you get 10%, and you get 10%.... http://www.restaurantinsider.net/server-tip-out-amount/

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can! Because the charge is FOR SERVICE, not for THIS service. And because crew frequently switch ships, some element of fleet-wide benefit covers them too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In your scenario, the room steward who ONLY services your room would have the biggest impact on your happiness. But the other 12 rooms which go unattended would be unhappy.

 

What makes more sense? 1 very happy / 12 unhappy.....or 13 moderately happy?

 

Only in unionized environments are people not individually rated & rewarded. I can speak from experience however that the 'best' do not get penalized, they are in fact rewarded and promoted as the enterprise seeks to encourage others to replicate (Best Practices) that 'best' behavior pattern. This is the carrot, in the proverbial carrot & stick scenario.

 

 

 

 

As you have indicated that some people just need to be educated, please allow me.

 

Before the DSC, waitstaff worked in a particular restaurant, with a fixed set of co-workers and used the tip-out method described in the link above.

 

When FreeStyle introduced dining options, and crew were moved from venue-to-venue on short-notice, forming & unforming teams on-the-fly, a broader system to reward them was needed.

 

The reason people get upset at those who want to unravel the system, is that the system works for the people who are in it. It provides consistency of income (rather than the variability of HOPING somebody tips you), and enables crew to determine their own rankings in the sense that...if you know the metrics used to rank you, you can work to improve your rankings.

 

When the control rests with an ever-changing guest list with different customs, priorities, perspectives, etc. then not only do you have no idea from room-to-room, or from week-to-week what behavior pattern will elicit the best income ( some people want to be attended to, others want to be left alone)....and in some cases you may perform exactly as the guest considered ideal, but it's not in their culture to even think of offering anything.

 

 

So for these reasons, I leave the DSC in place and rely on anecdotal feedback from crew I've spoken with, and from fellow cruisers with strong NCL connections to reassure me that both the cruiseline AND the crew are happier with the DSC than without it.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

 

Too bad NCL doesn't share your OPINIONS.

 

One truth I will agree with in your own words. "You're entitled to your own opinion, not to your own set of facts."

 

When I place a cash tip into the hand of MY server or steward, I can see that the hand is connected to the arm that is connected to the body of the person near me.

 

The DSC does not have that connection, and NCL doesn't make it clear who gets it.

 

So, I disagree with your extensive rhetoric.

------------------

Edited October 3, 2015 by swedish weave

[NLH Arizona]

No

 

 

 

No you don't. You have no idea who gets tipped-out from that cash, or whether the cash is pooled. I can assure you that no good server ever manages the service unaided. They're supported by the bartender, the busperson, the cooks, the dishwasher, their assistant, the dining room manager, the hostess, etc.

 

If the hostess seats your section to fast you won't keep up. If your assistant isn't refilling bread & beverages you get blamed. If the dishes are dirty, you're doing two runs when one should have sufficed. If the tables aren't bussed quickly, you won't get as many table-turns in an evening.

 

The dollar you hand to a server is probably shared in some percentage with all of these people WHO SERVED YOU without you coming face-to-face with them. You get 10%, and you get 10%, and you get 10%.... http://www.restaurantinsider.net/server-tip-out-amount/

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can! Because the charge is FOR SERVICE, not for THIS service. And because crew frequently switch ships, some element of fleet-wide benefit covers them too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In your scenario, the room steward who ONLY services your room would have the biggest impact on your happiness. But the other 12 rooms which go unattended would be unhappy.

 

What makes more sense? 1 very happy / 12 unhappy.....or 13 moderately happy?

 

Only in unionized environments are people not individually rated & rewarded. I can speak from experience however that the 'best' do not get penalized, they are in fact rewarded and promoted as the enterprise seeks to encourage others to replicate (Best Practices) that 'best' behavior pattern. This is the carrot, in the proverbial carrot & stick scenario.

 

 

 

 

As you have indicated that some people just need to be educated, please allow me.

 

Before the DSC, waitstaff worked in a particular restaurant, with a fixed set of co-workers and used the tip-out method described in the link above.

 

When FreeStyle introduced dining options, and crew were moved from venue-to-venue on short-notice, forming & unforming teams on-the-fly, a broader system to reward them was needed.

 

The reason people get upset at those who want to unravel the system, is that the system works for the people who are in it. It provides consistency of income (rather than the variability of HOPING somebody tips you), and enables crew to determine their own rankings in the sense that...if you know the metrics used to rank you, you can work to improve your rankings.

 

When the control rests with an ever-changing guest list with different customs, priorities, perspectives, etc. then not only do you have no idea from room-to-room, or from week-to-week what behavior pattern will elicit the best income ( some people want to be attended to, others want to be left alone)....and in some cases you may perform exactly as the guest considered ideal, but it's not in their culture to even think of offering anything.

 

 

So for these reasons, I leave the DSC in place and rely on anecdotal feedback from crew I've spoken with, and from fellow cruisers with strong NCL connections to reassure me that both the cruiseline AND the crew are happier with the DSC than without it.

 

 

Stephen

 

.

Too much speculation by others and they need to be informed, so thank you Stephen, for telling it how it really is. Edited October 3, 2015 by NLH Arizona