CDC Changes For U.S Based Cruises

[Até]

4 hours ago, KennyFla said:

I think his main complaint is that there are no differences in restrictions between vaccinated and un-vaccinated cruises.  As you say, MSC has been cruising in Europe since August.  But not in the US.  If they can not adhere to the CDC's guidelines, no one can.

The difference that the CDC allowed is that with vaccinated cruises they can skip the test cruise phase and go straight to revenue generating sailings.  So I see movement by the CDC but really can't say the same for NCL, I only see NCL looking for ways to circumvent the CDC rules or get them entirely dropped.

 

I too had hoped for some lessening of the social distancing types of restrictions for provable all vaccinated cruises, I expect those requirements to slowly change as the situation on land improves.  But Del Rio is just picking and hyping non-issues that really won't even affect their ability to fill a restricted capacity ship nor cost them a cent, when his real goal is to foment pressure to drop the regulations that he's not willing to publicly announce they really want dropped.  The ones that cost them money but are important, like enforcing they secure adequate quarantine and care facilities at all port locations, monitoring of close contacts, and quarantining close contacts rather than allowing the cruise line to put exposed passengers/crew on commercial flights back to their homes.

 

It's my opinion MSC chose to start back in their familiar territory.  I'm sure single country sailings and national health systems have also made it easier, options you don't have for US cruises.  MSC's current embarkation, port and on-ship protocols seem the same as what the CDC requires.  And MSC seems to now be working on the difficulties associated with porting in several different countries, so my hope is they will also overcome this aspect on US sailings.  But as implied above MSC may also be more wary of the US passenger rather than being unable to adhere to the CDC guidelines.

[Hlitner]

I guess I have a different take on Frank del Rio (CEO of Norwegian Holdings) having been around the cruise game for over forty years.  FDR (as he is often called) is a very experienced and highly respected cruise executive.   He has been around the industry for about 30 years and knows about what he speaks :).  I think his comments about the CDC are not only appropriate, but he is understating the extent of the problem the cruise industry has been having with the CDC for over a year.  

 

The CDC's cruise guidelines are ridiculously onerous.  Several times over the past year the CDC will issue some remarks that make it seem like they are reading to smoke the piece pipe and work with the cruise industry, but then they come out with the detailed written policy that is quite the contrary.  I also believe that even if MSC could get the CDC to agree to allow them to cruise, the mitigation measures that would need to happen would make the cruise an awful experience.  Just imagine maintaining 6 foot social distancing in pools, having one person (or family) in a hot tub at a time, maintaining 6 foot of separation in the main show room, etc.  And then there is the issue that the CDC is demanding that cruise lines only allow passengers to go ashore if they are on a small group cruise line excursion that must essentially maintain the "bubble."  This means no shopping, no walking on a beach, etc.  

 

What happens now?  I have no idea but we are in the process of cancelling an October MSC booking (Yacht Club).  Our booking is for a 14 day cruise but MSC does not even sell this 14 day cruise anymore because it would be contrary to CDC guidelines (no cruise more then 7 days).  We feel a lot more comfortable booking a Seabourn cruise (to replace the MSC cruise) since Seabourn is going to cruise out of Barbados and avoid all USA ports so as not to be subject to the whims of the CDC.

 

Hank

[sidari]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I guess I have a different take on Frank del Rio (CEO of Norwegian Holdings) having been around the cruise game for over forty years.  FDR (as he is often called) is a very experienced and highly respected cruise executive.   He has been around the industry for about 30 years and knows about what he speaks :).  I think his comments about the CDC are not only appropriate, but he is understating the extent of the problem the cruise industry has been having with the CDC for over a year.  

 

The CDC's cruise guidelines are ridiculously onerous.  Several times over the past year the CDC will issue some remarks that make it seem like they are reading to smoke the piece pipe and work with the cruise industry, but then they come out with the detailed written policy that is quite the contrary.  I also believe that even if MSC could get the CDC to agree to allow them to cruise, the mitigation measures that would need to happen would make the cruise an awful experience.  Just imagine maintaining 6 foot social distancing in pools, having one person (or family) in a hot tub at a time, maintaining 6 foot of separation in the main show room, etc.  And then there is the issue that the CDC is demanding that cruise lines only allow passengers to go ashore if they are on a small group cruise line excursion that must essentially maintain the "bubble."  This means no shopping, no walking on a beach, etc.  

 

What happens now?  I have no idea but we are in the process of cancelling an October MSC booking (Yacht Club).  Our booking is for a 14 day cruise but MSC does not even sell this 14 day cruise anymore because it would be contrary to CDC guidelines (no cruise more then 7 days).  We feel a lot more comfortable booking a Seabourn cruise (to replace the MSC cruise) since Seabourn is going to cruise out of Barbados and avoid all USA ports so as not to be subject to the whims of the CDC.

 

Hank

Hank ... Maybe MSC will decide that a move to another departure port is the better bet until common sense returns in order for ships to sail under reasonable condition's from US ports 

[Até]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 We feel a lot more comfortable booking a Seabourn cruise (to replace the MSC cruise) since Seabourn is going to cruise out of Barbados and avoid all USA ports so as not to be subject to the whims of the CDC.

I sure hope Seabourn implements better self-regulating safety standards than SeaDream did from Barbados.  My bet is Barbados, and even other countries, are going to be a bit more strict after that disaster.

 

I really don't think desperate cruise lines switching to less developed, more tourism hungry countries just to evade US and other country's COVID-19 regulations is going to be a good thing for the cruise industry.  Whether these countries and ports are actually going to let in large cruise ships, most with no vaccination requirement, will be interesting to follow.  Self-regulating cruise lines full of tourists not interested in serious COVID-19 precautions would keep me away for sure.

 

44 minutes ago, sidari said:

Maybe MSC will decide that a move to another departure port is the better bet until common sense returns in order for ships to sail under reasonable condition's from US ports 

MSC has sailed out of Guadeloupe and Martinique for years.  If it was MSC's decision and if MSC thought it could be done safely I think it would have already been announced.  It's not like every country is inviting back mass cruising, do you think MSC would start sailing without plans similar to what they've made in Italy and UK?

[Hlitner]

44 minutes ago, Até said:

I sure hope Seabourn implements better self-regulating safety standards than SeaDream did from Barbados.  My bet is Barbados, and even other countries, are going to be a bit more strict after that disaster.

 

I really don't think desperate cruise lines switching to less developed, more tourism hungry countries just to evade US and other country's COVID-19 regulations is going to be a good thing for the cruise industry.  Whether these countries and ports are actually going to let in large cruise ships, most with no vaccination requirement, will be interesting to follow.  Self-regulating cruise lines full of tourists not interested in serious COVID-19 precautions would keep me away for sure.

 

MSC has sailed out of Guadeloupe and Martinique for years.  If it was MSC's decision and if MSC thought it could be done safely I think it would have already been announced.  It's not like every country is inviting back mass cruising, do you think MSC would start sailing without plans similar to what they've made in Italy and UK?

To answer your question, Seabourn is requiring everyone on board (with no exceptions) to be fully vaccinated at least 14 days prior to boarding.  That includes all passengers and crew.  That is a similar policy that is being followed by Crystal (another luxury line).  Frank del Rio, CEO of Norwegian Holdings (Oceania, Regent and NCL) has already told the CDC he wants to start cruising out of the USA with a similar 100% vaccinated policy.  But the small minds at the CDC have, so far, ignored his suggestion and continue to spit out rhetoric without allowing any cruises involving US Ports.

 

Hank

 

 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Até said:

MSC has sailed out of Guadeloupe and Martinique for years.  If it was MSC's decision and if MSC thought it could be done safely I think it would have already been announced. 

 

There are so many issues, I think, for sailing from those ports on any kind of short or long term basis.  Infrastructure, airlift capacity immediately come to my mind.

 

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I guess I have a different take on Frank del Rio (CEO of Norwegian Holdings) having been around the cruise game for over forty years.

 

You do.  This man has flitted from cruise company to others over the years.  There is no doubt in my mind that with all of his experiences that he has learned much.  But, why does he keep "jumping ships"?

 

I have more faith and value in the service of those cruise executives who remain with their companies for an extended period of time.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

There are so many issues, I think, for sailing from those ports on any kind of short or long term basis.  Infrastructure, airlift capacity immediately come to my mind.

 

 

You do.  This man has flitted from cruise company to others over the years.  There is no doubt in my mind that with all of his experiences that he has learned much.  But, why does he keep "jumping ships"?

 

I have more faith and value in the service of those cruise executives who remain with their companies for an extended period of time.

I am not going to defend FDR but I will address some of your question.  I first became aware of him when he was very involved in a fascinating cruise line called Renaissance.  I loved that line and their "R" ships (there were 8 identical vessels constructed).  But Ren had bad timing, tried some innovative ideas (no kids, no smoking, and not dealing with cruise/travel agents) and got torpedoed by 9-11 and their bad decision to exclude cruise/travel agents.  FDR moved on and eventually helped get Oceania up and running (a decent cruise line) and then moved to Norwegian (who bought Oceania).  

 

But I think the problem now is that the cruise industry is caught up in national politics with little leverage.  The main State that is impacted by the cruise industry is Florida and that State has a Republican Governor (who may be the front runner to run against Biden) and two Republican Senators (Rubio and Scott) one of whom may also run for President.  Why would the Biden administration want to help any of those Florida politicians.  So where is the cruise line's leverage.  Perhaps the International Longshoreman's Union) but they may not want to get into the middle of this mess...unless there were something in it for them.  At this point it might suit the Biden folks to leave the cruise industry shut down and try to blame DeSantis.  We shall see.   By the way, another State who is really impacted by the cruise shut down is Alaska...and take a look at their politicians.  Of course nobody will ever admit that what is happening has anything to do with politics :(.

 

So who else do we have that can help.  Richard Fain is also an excellent well seasoned cruise line leader (RCI) but has been pretty quiet.  One might suspect he is working behind the scenes, but I assume he does not agree with FDR about 100% vaccinated cruises (RCI needs families and kids).  And finally we have Arnold Donald who is the new guy on the block with zero cruise experience prior to taking over CCL.  He also would have an issue with 100% vaccinated cruises since his Carnival brand does attract many families with younger kids.

 

And all these powerful CEOs are now at the mercy of a handful of middle/upper management career employees at the CDC.  Go figure.  

 

Hank

 

Hank