Another Moselle-related question - castles

[hbbae]

Thank you, notamermaid and everyone, for all of the helpful information provided regarding river cruises - so interesting and informative!  I am signed up for a barge cruise along the Moselle this summer, Cochem to Metz (notamermaid mentioned this tour in another Moselle-related thread) - this particular sailing is offered via some cultural and alumni groups, and while it will provide bikes, I think it will have more of a walking tour emphasis than the usual itinerary.  I think there will be visits to three castles - Reichsburg, Metternich, and Saarburg.  I've got some knee issues, and always like to think ahead and plan for some of the steeper walks - and am interested in knowing more about the steepness and length of the paths to and from those castles, and whether there are any less-taxing alternatives.  Opinions about these castles (worthwhile to visit?) are of interest also.  And if anyone has any general experiences to share about barge cruises along the Moselle, I'd be very interested in hearing about those too - thanks very much!  

[CPT Trips]

My memory of Reichsburg was of some steep walks as well as steps, so I went to https://reichsburg-cochem.de/?lang=en and reinforced my memory. Have a look your self.

 

We used shuttle buses from the ship up to the castle they let us out in the area that shows to the right of the entry gate which is in the lower center of the main photo.

 

Here is an aerial view for another perspective. We were dropped off near the toiletten. 


We then drove down to the town for a walking tour. That was relatively flat as was the walk back across the river to the ship.

I am not familiar with the others. If you search on them, you might find similar photos.

Edited March 28, 2022 by CPT Trips

[hbbae]

Thank you, CPT Trips - I’ve been doing some research, but hadn’t found aerial photos like that.  On TripAdvisor and other forums, I’ve seen the path to Reichsburg described variously as “steep”, “quite steep”, and “not too bad”, so I wanted to ask here, because I’ve gotten earlier helpful advice and impressions from these boards.
 

I actually watched a 30 minute video taken by a couple of guys who walked through the town of Cochem and then up to the castle.  Hard to know for sure, but it looked like a continual but gradual rise, with some steps, and with the last part (saving the “best” for last) appearing to be the steepest.  At least it looked like the pavement was in pretty good shape/well maintained.

 

Did you enjoy the castle?  Were there other highlights for you along the Moselle?

[ural guy]

We enjoyed our visit to Reichsburg.  They have balconies overlooking the river where this image is from,

for our tour they had 'the count' great you with a shot of something (you could keep the glass), and then he sang a few songs.  As far as getting up there, I think slow and steady will win the day.

 

Bernkastel is a fun town to wander around, we were docked there overnight.  We sailed in November, and the hills above the village were yellow with gorgeous colors from the vineyards.  Got lucky and they were having a carnival fest going on, bands, food, costumes.

 

 

Trier has all the Roman ruins to explore.  The day we visited on the scheduled tour, it rained.  We had a free day later and I took an E-bike for more exploring on a great sunny day.  Maybe 50 kms that day, another day I skipped a tour and went from Koblenz on the the Rhine for 70 kms round trip.  All bike trails were in top notch shape, great singage.

 

Did a vineyard tour with lunch, all courses had wine in dishes, and then one paired to drink.  Not a foodie, but this was the best meal of trip, and probably top 5 all time.  Good company certainly helped.

 

Mosel has been our favorite river, enjoy.

* Not my snaps.  Mosel thread may have my rainy/sunny pics of Trier roman gate.

  

[notamermaid]

Thank you @hbbae. Happy to help.

 

So you are going on the itinerary that Tripsite offers, but through another operator?  https://www.tripsite.com/bike-boat/tours/metz-to-cochem/

And you mean you are not taking the cycle tour options but will stay with the ship and do excursions by coach when offered? Or is this a bike & barge without the organized biking tours?

 

Anyway, great idea with the aerial photos. This is the first time I have seen the Reichsburg and the paths this way. I have never been there. I have also not been to Metternich castle, this is the one towering above Beilstein, isn't it? Beilstein is a hilly small town, lovely to wander around. The castle looks a steep climb to me, it is a ruin but is maintained and has a restaurant it appears. This video I found could help with assessing the effort for knees and ankles: https://youtu.be/yGfpbMML0ts

 

 

Saarburg is both a town and a castle and I have been there. I reported on it in the thread on the Moselle. The town is kind of in two levels. A bit along the river, but the old town is high on the hill. A dramatic place worth the effort you need for exploring. Not too bad in my opinion and tarmac as well as cobblestones. You can follow the modern road that winds slowly up the hill. The castle itself is high on the hill and a ruin. Quite small with steps into the keep and towards a lower level. There is a restaurant up there and the view is good but not spectacular. To get to the castle grounds we went up a short serpentine road, perhaps ten minutes, steep but relatively even.

 

Of the three, perhaps the most difficult one for you may be Metternich. Depending on how your plan is for that day you could find an alternative but right now I cannot think of one. Naturally in this area, almost all castles are on hills!

 

notamermaid

 

[hbbae]

Thank you, ural guy, for sharing those experiences - all sounds good!  Which cruise line were you on, or was it a barge?

 

From the video I watched earlier, I noticed those balconies, which I think would provide a good (and scenic) reason for a pause.  Slow and steady sounds like the right approach. 

[hbbae]

Thank you, notamermaid - as always, you’ve provided some really helpful information and perspective.  Your description of Saarburg helps me picture it better, in terms of its terrain, I hadn’t seen too much info about that elsewhere.

 

Yes, the tour itinerary is the one you linked to (in reverse, Cochem to Metz).  This tour is being offered in conjunction with a cultural organization and a university, so I think it’s been “customized”, and the focus seems to be more on walking rather than biking (when I inquired, I was told that bikes would be available for those who wanted them. But it is not being advertised as a bike tour.  I don’t think this particular sailing is being offered through Tripsite.). The vessel is the Princesse Royal. Actually, maybe it isn’t a barge.  But it’s small.  The reviews of the ship and the tour/itinerary are stellar, and the whole thing sounds relaxing and fun, and very low-key.  Thank you again for the information (the video was really helpful too.)

[sbjornda]

Our tour bus dropped us off in the castle's parking lot, but there was still some climbing after that - a lane and some stairs. Not a lot of places to sit down, but several places where the tour stopped for explanations.

 

For those familiar with Google Earth, you can get a 3D view of the castle by searching for "Reichsburg Cochem". This link may  not work for all browsers; it works for me in Chrome on Windows: 

I hope this link takes you to Reichsburg Castle on Google Earth

[ural guy]

We were on Vantage.

[notamermaid]

4 hours ago, hbbae said:

 Your description of Saarburg helps me picture it better, in terms of its terrain, I hadn’t seen too much info about that elsewhere.

Glad that it is helpful. Actually, I have just found a photo of the path, I had forgotten I had taken a photo of that hill. You can see the bend that we had just climbed:

It is an access street for delivery vans for the restaurant, so in quite good condition. And I had forgotten that there is a tiny car park as well. Google maps shows it. Perhaps you could get a taxi from the ship taking you around town a little and then drop you off up there?

 

Here is a German video with some nice footage, just a bit of info: at 2:02 the view is from the keep, so a bit higher than what I saw from the plateau of the castle. I did not go up the keep. At 4:02 following, that church is on the other side of the river in a suburb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD87IHFTrBo

 

The waterfall plunges down 18 metres, not much on a worldwide scale but within a town it looks dramatic.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:22 PM, notamermaid said:

Depending on how your plan is for that day you could find an alternative but right now I cannot think of one. Naturally in this area, almost all castles are on hills!

Another one on a high hill for sure, but I have now thought of this as a possible alternative. And a couple of people on these boards may have been up there so can give you first-hand knowledge. It is Landshut castle above Bernkastel-Kues:

https://www.burglandshut.com/

Again, this is a ruin only brought back to life with a modern restaurant. But there are information panels with info about the former Roman fort on this spot.

Good thing is, they have a shuttle. You can inquire about it at the tourist information: https://en.bernkastel.de/

 

My memory of Eltz Castle is a bit hazy so not sure if that would be an option from Cochem for you. You would need a taxi or coach. But that one is complete and fabulous.

More info on that is in the Moselle thread.

 

notamermaid

 

[gnome12]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

My memory of Eltz Castle is a bit hazy so not sure if that would be an option from Cochem for you. You would need a taxi or coach. But that one is complete and fabulous.

My understanding of Eltz castle is that even from the bus stop (weekends and holidays only), or the parking lot, it is a bit of a hike up to the castle. There is (or was) a small shuttle that takes you up to the gate; it used to be €2.

[hbbae]

Thanks, everyone, this is all helpful and interesting information.  The Landshut castle looks like they did a real nice job with the restaurant!

 

I’ve heard about Eltz Castle, and it gets very high marks from reviewers. It sounds fabulous - like if there’s one castle to be visited, it should be that one.  Not sure how doable it would be on this trip, lots of other factors would be in play.  But it’s definitely on my radar,.  I’m not a “castle connoisseur”, but if there are opportunities to experience them, I’d like to try.  At least the pavements up (or down) to the castles look like they’re in reasonable shape.  I’ve traveled in the Balkans (not on a cruise) - Bosnia, Albania, North Macedonia - and struggled because of the combo of steepness and poor paving (or in some cases, slippery/slick) - so now I try to do some due diligence beforehand, so that I know what I’m getting into!

[gnome12]

7 hours ago, hbbae said:

Thanks, everyone, this is all helpful and interesting information.  The Landshut castle looks like they did a real nice job with the restaurant!

 

I’ve heard about Eltz Castle, and it gets very high marks from reviewers. It sounds fabulous - like if there’s one castle to be visited, it should be that one.  Not sure how doable it would be on this trip, lots of other factors would be in play.  But it’s definitely on my radar,.  I’m not a “castle connoisseur”, but if there are opportunities to experience them, I’d like to try.  At least the pavements up (or down) to the castles look like they’re in reasonable shape.  I’ve traveled in the Balkans (not on a cruise) - Bosnia, Albania, North Macedonia - and struggled because of the combo of steepness and poor paving (or in some cases, slippery/slick) - so now I try to do some due diligence beforehand, so that I know what I’m getting into!

Here is the info page for Burg Eltz

https://www.burg-eltz.de/en/planning-your-trip-to-eltz-castle.html

 

[hbbae]

gnome12, this link and information is so helpful - thank you!  “Gently descending footpath through nature with stunning views” sounds perfect!  I’ll need to think about if/how this could be integrated into the itinerary (not yet sure when or how much free time there will be on this cruise) - or perhaps it could be a focal point of a subsequent visit (because it sounds like many people enjoy the Moselle so much that they return).  Thanks again!

[gnome12]

51 minutes ago, hbbae said:

gnome12, this link and information is so helpful - thank you!  “Gently descending footpath through nature with stunning views” sounds perfect!  I’ll need to think about if/how this could be integrated into the itinerary (not yet sure when or how much free time there will be on this cruise) - or perhaps it could be a focal point of a subsequent visit (because it sounds like many people enjoy the Moselle so much that they return).  Thanks again!

Our plan (because my bike and barge begins on a Sunday in Cochem) is to go either Saturday or Sunday morning before the barge trip begins using the train and bus. However, right now I can't see that it is doable; the timetable only runs to Sept 8, and we will be doing the trip Oct 1 or 2

 

It looks like for 2022, the bus (365) is going to run daily.

Take a look at the download on this page and use a translator to get the full meaning

https://www.vrs.de/partner/vrm/linien-details/linie/de:vrs:3365

 

(In the past it was a different bus route that went to a bunch of different castles, and only ran on Saturday, Sunday and holidays. It doesn't look like Burg Eltz has updated their website for the new route.)

Edited March 31, 2022 by gnome12

[hbbae]

Thanks, gnome12 - this is sounding to me like more of an opportunity for a second visit (using this initial Moselle experience to "scope things out").  Wasn't planning to arrive in Cochem early - although the tour operator hasn't finalized or shared their air travel recommendations yet, even though it's a late June tour - so I don't know what they're going to be recommending.  I've seen one version of the itinerary that has it starting in Frankfurt (with a museum visit immediately after a trans-Atlantic flight), and then traveling to Cochem, where we would connect with the ship.  But other versions indicate a direct transfer to Cochem upon arrival in Frankfurt.  This tour was touch-and-go for a while, in terms of whether it would proceed - and while the tour operator eventually decided that it would go forward, some of the rest of the details still seem unsettled. 

 

From the other Moselle thread, it sounds like you'll be following a different itinerary.  You will be traveling there at such a beautiful time of year!

 

 

[notamermaid]

Arrival time and place is something to consider, certainly. From Frankfurt to Cochem it is a bit of a distance by coach (you are just not as fast as in a car) and depending on what route you take and especially what time of day you arrive, there will be little left of the day before you have to be on the ship.

 

If you have nothing else planned and there is enough time, I hope you can go through the Rhine valley, much preferable to the Autobahn 3. For a coach it may even be as fast going on the A60 and the A61 as it is using the A3 and A48. The Rhine valley would be slower due to the meanders. But what a treat it would be.

 

1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

In the past it was a different bus route that went to a bunch of different castles

Yes, that was the Burgenbus. I vaguely remember reading that there was an unpopular decision surrounding that line and there is no longer the castle to castle to castle option. Will check that, but the link (thank you!) gives an alternative in the route 365.

 

notamermaid

 

[gnome12]

Our original trip (May of 2020) was to be Koblenz to Metz. I was trying very hard to figure out how to do the Maar-Moselle bike path (which wasn't included in that tour but looked great). When that was cancelled we moved to September 2021, Cochem to Metz which included a day to do the Maar Moselle path, so I was happy. Closer to departure, when France was getting iffy, it became Cochem to Saarburg, before it was cancelled entirely. When we tried to rebook for September 2022 we couldn't find anything, so we ended up on Cochem to Merzig in early October 2022. The only difference is the last few days from Trier; we will probably still go to Metz, Nancy, Colmar and Strasbourg as was our original plan when we first booked.

 

I will however, miss crossing Luxembourg off my list of countries visited.

Edited March 31, 2022 by gnome12

[gnome12]

4 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Yes, that was the Burgenbus. I vaguely remember reading that there was an unpopular decision surrounding that line and there is no longer the castle to castle to castle option. Will check that, but the link (thank you!) gives an alternative in the route 365.

I think that for our purposes it will work out better. There were only 4 buses per weekend/holiday day on the Burgenbus, so you really had to be on the first one to get to the castle at a reasonable time, and be able to return mid-afternoon. Now there seem to be mostly 2 buses per hour. (If I read the timetable correctly, the trips that end in Münstermaifeld are those before April 1 (when Burg Eltz opens for the season) and from November 2 (when presumably the castle is closed).

[hbbae]

41 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Arrival time and place is something to consider, certainly. From Frankfurt to Cochem it is a bit of a distance by coach (you are just not as fast as in a car) and depending on what route you take and especially what time of day you arrive, there will be little left of the day before you have to be on the ship.

 

notamermaid, if I can jump ahead to the end of my cruise for a minute - it ends in Metz, and we are then supposed to be transferred to Frankfurt for the journey home - how long is that transfer going to take?  I've been wondering about that!  I'd actually like to stay in Metz for an extra day, but since this is my first travel since Dec 2019, I'm trying to keep things relatively uncomplicated until I'm fully back in "travel rhythm".

 

gnome12, your bike-and-barge planning has certainly been a saga since your original May 2020 plans.  I hope it will be smooth sailing for you ahead this fall -

[gnome12]

11 minutes ago, hbbae said:

 

notamermaid, if I can jump ahead to the end of my cruise for a minute - it ends in Metz, and we are then supposed to be transferred to Frankfurt for the journey home - how long is that transfer going to take?  I've been wondering about that!  I'd actually like to stay in Metz for an extra day, but since this is my first travel since Dec 2019, I'm trying to keep things relatively uncomplicated until I'm fully back in "travel rhythm".

 

gnome12, your bike-and-barge planning has certainly been a saga since your original May 2020 plans.  I hope it will be smooth sailing for you ahead this fall -

I’m not @notamermaidbut I can promise you that the trip from Metz to Frankfurt will be longer than Frankfurt to Cochem. 

[notamermaid]

That is also how I read it. Hope your visit to Eltz Castle works out. It is truly a unique place.

 

I think it is time to post that video again (must be somewhere in the Moselle thread), for everyone's enjoyment : https://www.dw.com/en/once-upon-a-time-in-germany-castles-ghosts-royalty/av-53838295

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

6 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

I’m not @notamermaidbut I can promise you that the trip from Metz to Frankfurt will be longer than Frankfurt to Cochem. 

I reckon it is a bit more than double the time and via a different motorway.

22 minutes ago, hbbae said:

I'd actually like to stay in Metz for an extra day

Do check if it may be possible when you have more details from your organizer. It is worth it, Metz deserves more than "six hours" visiting time. But you may indeed be happier with going straight to Frankfurt with your party as train travel from Metz to Frankfurt airport is not straightforward.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[hbbae]

Yes, this is what I thought, it's going to be a really long coach ride from Metz to Frankfurt ... maybe the tour operator is still trying to figure out how all this works, from the perspective of flights.   Thanks for confirming my hunch about this. (wasn't sure if there might be any shortcuts)

 

The airport in Nancy would be the closest to Metz, and flying home from Luxembourg could be a possibility also.  I'll ponder those options.  Not sure if there are any castles in Metz, but it sounds like a thoroughly charming town, and definitely worth more than 6 hours.