Is TA telling the truth?

[Kpstill]

Is TA telling the truth?

 

No. :(

 

You are definately not a "group."

[Knights on the Beach]

So do we have a group of disagreeing TA's here? ;)

[jcanino]

ok.. :) if you say so..

 

but...... group cabins are always initally booked TBA..

 

an IS cabin.. is.. a 4A TBA. an OV cabins is.. a 6A TBA. So you can say your group rate is for a 4A TBA. But if it's the same as an individual IS rate, then it's not really apples to oranges now is it?

 

But, one can book a group in 4C or 6B or 8D. Plus, if you already have people for your group, you can apply names immediately and it is not a TBA at any time.

[jcanino]

So do we have a group of disagreeing TA's here? ;)

 

Don't ask me, I have no idea what the other poster does. :cool:

[NRWO]

But, one can book a group in 4C or 6B or 8D. Plus, if you already have people for your group, you can apply names immediately and it is not a TBA at any time.

 

 

Well yes of course, but in my experience those rates are not less than the individual rates. And also in my expereince, names or not, the room assignments are initially TBA. If your experiences with CCL groups are different, that's fine..

[jcanino]

Well yes of course, but in my experience those rates are not less than the individual rates. And also in my expereince, names or not, the room assignments are initially TBA. If your experiences with CCL groups are different, that's fine..

 

Yes it is all based on my experiences for over 10 years. I always compare rates to make sure I am getting the best one for my clients. I don't always book groups in the lowest cabins. I have had several groups where I already had names and placed them on the booking as soon as I held the space, placed deposit and issued cabins.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree.

[serene56]

ok.. :) if you say so..

 

but...... group cabins are always initally booked TBA..

 

an IS cabin.. is.. a 4A TBA. an OV cabins is.. a 6A TBA. So you can say your group rate is for a 4A TBA. But if it's the same as an individual IS rate, then it's not really apples to oranges now is it?

 

this is also not true in the case of myself- I was able to get my group price and pick a set cabin with the lower price. On my group on the Liberty all but 4 cabins had picked cabins # and not TBA. The group rate was a savings of 100pp but we got no amenities like cabin credit. (although we did get a free party)

 

I also got it for my upcoming cruise on the Destiny.. and the Caribbean Princess.

[starketcher]

I've only ever booked once through a group cruise and our rate was pretty much the going rate, no discounts...so what are the perks that everyone is speaking of as receiving? Just curious?

[zebster15]

JCanino is correct...

 

The one thing he didn't point out (I don't think) is that if the 'group' falls below 5 cabins the ammenities are withdrawn.

 

If I have a couple of cabins booked by a family or two I ALWAYS check the group rates. There have been times when my 'group' ended up to be one cabin.

 

I have been doing this for many years (been in the travel business for over 33yrs) and just booked a group today because the rate was $100 lower and they already had 4 cabins with a possiblity of at least 3-4 more.

[serene56]

I've only ever booked once through a group cruise and our rate was pretty much the going rate, no discounts...so what are the perks that everyone is speaking of as receiving? Just curious?

 

depends on the ship/the week and how many you got -

some get cabin credit (50-to -100 per cabin) we got a free bottle of wine/and a free party for an hour with open bar and cold hordesverves (?) think pepperidge farm fishes---lol

some will get a free group photo..or a photo coupon.

[dms_cruisers04]

Well if the TA's are done debating themselves :p , can we get back to why, if apparently there are only 5 cabins, no amenities and there wasn't a discounted rate, this TA wouldn't just change the booking for the lower rate?

Still say lbendick needs to ask some more questions and find out what's going on.

[jcanino]

JCanino is correct...

 

The one thing he didn't point out (I don't think) is that if the 'group' falls below 5 cabins the ammenities are withdrawn.

 

Thank you!

 

I did mention at some point that you could lose amenities .

[jcanino]

Well if the TA's are done debating themselves :p , can we get back to why, if apparently there are only 5 cabins, no amenities and there wasn't a discounted rate, this TA wouldn't just change the booking for the lower rate?

Still say lbendick needs to ask some more questions and find out what's going on.

 

But their could be amenities. Maybe the TA won't revert them to individual because he or she is using the amenity points for bonus commissions! As we all know, there are TA's out there that only care about themselves.

[serene56]

Mike- I have a co-worker who booked his whole family on a cruise- 8 balcony cabins. over 20 people. THe agent did not give them any discounts nor did she give them any amenities. She kept them all. Needless to say--after the cruise and talking to people onboard the agent lost all her future business with them.

[dms_cruisers04]

But their could be amenities. Maybe the TA won't revert them to individual because he or she is using the amenity points for bonus commissions! As we all know, there are TA's out there that only care about themselves.

Mike- I have a co-worker who booked his whole family on a cruise- 8 balcony cabins. over 20 people. THe agent did not give them any discounts nor did she give them any amenities. She kept them all. Needless to say--after the cruise and talking to people onboard the agent lost all her future business with them.

Exactly you guys.

I hope lbendick gets it all straightened out.

[glrounds]

She said it was booked through group reservations not through regular reservations and they dont do price changes. Doesnt make sense to me Carnival is Carnival whether its a group reservation or a regular reservation.

 

My guess, and I stress it is a GUESS, your TA has already lumped you in with a group she has going, as tankersbabe has stated. Therefore you either get the "group" rate or she/he pockets that difference for being so shrewd. ;)

Because I cruise last-minute, I can't take advantage of groups, but I do use a website where you punch in the ship, date, and cabin type preference and a multitude of agencies,e-mail you their quotes for that particular cruise and cabin type. It all happens almost immediately and the beauty is everything is in BLACK and WHITE. I always get 6 to 8 quotes for the cruise with a huge range of pricing. If I accept any of these quotes, I punch in CC# and "whallah", I receive a confirmation in BLACK and WHITE with a booking #, go to Carnival's website and confirm my booking and fill out the fun pass. All quotes from every agency MUST include the FULL PRICE (including port charges, govt taxes, and any fees they attach). I pick up docs at the pier and have never had even the slightest hitch.:)

[bgmtrans]

Not to get too far off subject here but....

 

I have used the same online cruise source that GLROUNDS mentioned and had an awful experience.We went with one of these quotes for an angency that said it was a very large agency that had been inthe business 20 years.We went with them.Our agent made a big mistake that has most likely cost us our deposit and now trying to work it out ourselves with Carnival.Tried to go to my agents superior only to find out he is a one man show with 3 years experience and not much booking exp with Carnival. He will not rectify his mistake so we are stuck..Please do your research before using ANY agency.

[CruisinGrams]

Some TA's go over and beyond to help their clients while others not so much. It may be that your TA is not familiar or willing to negotiate to get you a discount. When we took our first cruise we got information from a TA. Then we went and checked with other TA's at different agencies to see what they advised for pricings, specials, etc. for the same itinerary and stateroom and found out that most of them were not giving us the same information (they were keeping a portion of the price difference which we already knew about for themselves). Our parents also quizzed their TA in another city as to why our rate was 10% lower than theirs for side by side cabins. So I guess you have to do your research and 'trust' your TA and the information you get from the Boards. If all else fails call the cruise agents directly and be persistent but polite.

[cruiseco]

Just for fun I just got off the phone with a supervisor in Carnival's group department and he says that in his experience (been with Carnival quite a while, in Group Res for about the last nine months) that more often than not the Group Res rate is the same as the Ind Res rate on that particular day. And he feels like the trend is for more and more sailings to be this way.

 

Carnival has been trying to get better control over their pricing and one way they're doing it is cutting back on the Group/Ind price difference. The mega-agencies for years have been able to block group space on every sailing on every ship and get a lower rate giving the already huge agencies a built in price advantage. They can beat the prices quoted by most agencies without having to rebate their commission by offering group rates to passengers who in fact not a part of a recognized group. And, if they're big enough they can earn TC credits and bonus commissions by putting what would otherwise be unrelated Ind Res bookings into a "group" on hundreds of sailings every year without having to share that loot with anyone.

 

So Carnival ends up:

1) Selling cabins at a lower rate to phony "groups"

2) Because of the built in price advantage bookings drift toward mega-agencies that earn higher commission rates away from smaller, lower commission ones

3) And Carnival ends up paying TC credits, bonus commissions, and other group amenities when, in reality a "group" never existed.

 

From Carnival's point of view this is just nuts as they would obviously like to be collecting Ind Res fares for what in reality for the most part are Ind Res bookings. There have been thousands of groups every year sailing with only one or two cabins sold. So, you see the trend toward making the incentives for booking through the group department be based on a legitimate minimum group size -- extra perks, parties, etc. If you fall short of the minumum group size you lose the extras and are stuck with the same rate you would have gotten if you'd booked through Ind Res that same day.

 

A lot of things can effect this -- the size of the agency, the volume of group bookings, etc. So jcanino's experience may well be different from some other agent's.

[jcanino]

Just for fun I just got off the phone with a supervisor in Carnival's group department and he says that in his experience (been with Carnival quite a while, in Group Res for about the last nine months) that more often than not the Group Res rate is the same as the Ind Res rate on that particular day. And he feels like the trend is for more and more sailings to be this way.

 

From Carnival's point of view this is just nuts as they would obviously like to be collecting Ind Res fares for what in reality for the most part are Ind Res bookings. There have been thousands of groups every year sailing with only one or two cabins sold. So, you see the trend toward making the incentives for booking through the group department be based on a legitimate minimum group size -- extra perks, parties, etc. If you fall short of the minumum group size you lose the extras and are stuck with the same rate you would have gotten if you'd booked through Ind Res that same day.

 

A lot of things can effect this -- the size of the agency, the volume of group bookings, etc. So jcanino's experience may well be different from some other agent's.

 

Carnival's Business Development Managers, their version of District Sales Managers, have been pushing groups for years. There are different types of groups. What you were referring to are speculative groups. You hold space and try to sell it. Carnival has changed their time frame that you are allowed to hold group space if you haven't sold any cabins; and unsold cabins get taken away a whole lot quicker than they used to.

 

We just booked group space for someone who we know has a guaranteed 4 cabins. We have 8 cabins held. Our base price is $100 less than the individual rate for the same category. We are not a mega agency but we do a good amount of business. A friend in South Carolina, who is a 1 person home based agency, gets the same group pricing that we do in CT.

[newmexicoNita]

After weeks & weeks of reading these boards I called Carnival and they are running a past guest special on the cruise we are booked on and the price has dropped $150/pp. I called TA and told her this and asked her to call and get us a onboard credit and she says we are not entitled to it because we are going on a group cruise. We are booked as a group because there are 5 cabins we got but we didnt get any special pricing it was the same for just the two of us or 5 cabins. I could understand it if we got a free cabin for booking 8 or more but we didnt get that many cabins everyone paid full fare. Is she right?

Something is a little fishy here: you are not a group booking, as you have said a group booking is arranged in advance for 8 cabins or more. I don't know why she is telling you this, but maybe she knows something the rest of us don't. Call her back!!!!

[newmexicoNita]

Could she be lumping you in with another group that she booked? I'd definitely check on that...you should be able to get your credit.

Bet that could be what has been done, plus if it is after final payment it could be a little touchy. NMNita

[HollyGoheavy]

The mega-agencies for years have been able to block group space on every sailing on every ship and get a lower rate giving the already huge agencies a built in price advantage. They can beat the prices quoted by most agencies without having to rebate their commission by offering group rates to passengers who in fact not a part of a recognized group. And, if they're big enough they can earn TC credits and bonus commissions by putting what would otherwise be unrelated Ind Res bookings into a "group" on hundreds of sailings every year without having to share that loot with anyone.

 

So Carnival ends up:

1) Selling cabins at a lower rate to phony "groups"

2) Because of the built in price advantage bookings drift toward mega-agencies that earn higher commission rates away from smaller, lower commission ones

3) And Carnival ends up paying TC credits, bonus commissions, and other group amenities when, in reality a "group" never existed.

 

From Carnival's point of view this is just nuts as they would obviously like to be collecting Ind Res fares for what in reality for the most part are Ind Res bookings. There have been thousands of groups every year sailing with only one or two cabins sold. So, you see the trend toward making the incentives for booking through the group department be based on a legitimate minimum group size -- extra perks, parties, etc. If you fall short of the minumum group size you lose the extras and are stuck with the same rate you would have gotten if you'd booked through Ind Res that same day.

 

A lot of things can effect this -- the size of the agency, the volume of group bookings, etc. So jcanino's experience may well be different from some other agent's.

 

I used to work for an agency that did this. We were a very large "cruise only" agency and we had one guy that did ONLY this, he sat and booked group space on every ship on every cruise line and he handled all the specifics of each group booking. He chose the amenities (back then you got a choice of 2 amenities with each booking, we usually chose champagne and strawberries in each cabin and the free 8th berth).

 

Because we did this we always had group space available and when checking prices, we would check to see what the group rates would be, and because the group had been booked the first day it was available and it might be 11 months later, if the ind rate was higher we could offer the lower group rate. If we booked you into an existing group, you would get the champagne/strawberries amenity in your cabin and think that I as the TA rocked the world because I sent you a gift, when in reality it didn't cost me a thing. We would keep the 8th berth commission for the agency.

 

Another way you can get varying prices is that agencies negotiate their commission structure based on previous years sales. If you have a large agency that held large group bookings and just plugged individuals in them as well as booking ind cabins, you'd get the top commissions which for CCL, RCCL etc was 17%. When you have that much commission to cut in a situation where you're competing for a booking with another agency, you can slash the price and still make a small profit which a smaller agency can't do, since their commission structure might only be 12%.

 

Sorry for a long winded no real point to it post but I finally knew something and could add to a discussion! :D

[cruiseco]

Something is a little fishy here: you are not a group booking, as you have said a group booking is arranged in advance for 8 cabins or more. I don't know why she is telling you this, but maybe she knows something the rest of us don't. Call her back!!!!

 

Say I'm a TA in a small agency. A client walks in looking at a sailing that will cost (through the Ind Res dept) $1000. He's called around and Mega Agency has it at $950. Mega Agency books group space on every sailing of every ship and this is one of those sailing where Carnival is offering a group rate $50 less than the Ind Res rate. Of course the client does not know he'd be booked into a group.

 

So what do I, as a little guy do? I call the Group Res dept and set up a group of eight cabins (the minimum) to get the $50 lower rate and to make the sale. Now I have absolutely no expectation of selling those left over seven cabins. If I do that's great but even if I don't, even if it turns out that no other cabins on this group are ever sold by our agency the client still gets the $950 rate because Carnival will protect the rate from cabin #1.

 

This happens all the time. Carnival knows it, the BDM's know it and some times even encourage it. They HATE losing a booking to that other district where Mega Agency is located and they'll turn a blind eye to this sort of nonsense if it will help them make the year-end numbers that their bonus depends on.

 

What happens if over the next six months seven other unrelated couple come in and book cabins on that sailing? I've struck gold. Because not only will I make 15% of the cruise fares ($950 X .15% X 16 = $2280) but since we've now qualified for a free TC berth I get an additional $950! Will it be shared among the "group" members? Yeah, right.

 

But wait! Maybe between the time I book the "group" and the time I have one last cabin in my allotment to sell the Ind Res rate has gone up to $1200. A client walks in and wants that sailing. My choices are:

 

1) Book him through the Ind Res dept and make my 15% (.15 X $1200 = $180) or;

 

2) Book him into the group at the same $1200 rate. I make my commission on the original rate (.15 X $950 = $142.50) PLUS all of the difference between the two rates ($1200 - $950 = $250) for a total commission of $392.50. My commission on that booking is effectively 32%. Not bad. It's easy to see why Mega Agency holds all of that group space. The down side is keeping track of everything but the upside payoff if the agency is big enough can be huge.

 

Who gets hurt? Normally not the client although there are situations such as this one where being in a "group" blows up. But Carnival can take a beating by paying out all sorts of commissions that phony "groups" can generate without actually generating additional bookings, just by shuffling them around.

 

Anyway, yes it's possible that the original poster is in fact booked through the group department with its different rules and restrictions.

[lbendick]

Thanks to everyone that replied, I finally had a long talk with my TA who in fact happens to be the owner of the company. She explained to me since we were a group of 5 couples going she booked as a group, no body else is in our group but we are getting $50/pp on board credit group amenity, and with these group bookings if you take your cabins out of the group reservations dept and back into the regular reservations you would lose the $50/pp credit. Which in our case would be fine because the savings discount is larger but of course there is a couple of sticklers, since number one I booked this cruise so far in advance just to pick the cabin I wanted (7258) on the Miracle very hard to find available, I would take the chance of not rebooking this cabin and also since it is only 52 days prior to departure it would be a $500 cancel and rebook fee from Carnival and $100 fee from her travel agency for paperwork. So I guess I learned the hard way booking a year in advance $50/pp amenties aren't that great when the price of your cruise can drop so dramatically. Basically bottom line Group reservations do not follow the price drop guarantee. But I dont thank all the people who responded , without your advice I dont think I could of eaven had the nerve to go to her and ask these questions. Thanks again.