First transatlantic flight questions

[cruisinqt]

8 minutes ago, Post Captain said:

 

Just a quick note...  Iberia's fleet does not include any 787s or indeed any Boeing aircraft at all; their fleet is composed primarily of Airbus jets plus some Bombadier Embraer jets (operated on short-haul routes within Europe by Iberia's regional subsidiary).

 

A quick search on Google Flights for your route (random dates) indicates that the transatlantic portion of the service is a code-share aboard a 787 American Airlines.  You can book this flight through Iberia, Finnair, or British Airways, though I don't see any advantage to doing so.  It's an American Airlines flight, so it would be simplest to book it directly via AA.

 

As a general rule:  When searching flights on any international route, be sure to check whether the flight is a code-share, and if so, which airline is actually operating the aircraft.  

I’ve been looking at so many flights, airlines, and times that I wrote it down wrong. Sorry about that. The first leg of the flight is with Finnair on a 787 Dreamliner (flight 4607) with premium seats then the second leg is with Iberia (flight 3014) with normal economy seats but you’re right, it’s all through AA.  Okay so what is a code share? And why is it important to know which airline is operating the aircraft? I fly all the time but I’m new to transatlantic flying. 

[Zach1213]

11 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

Oops sorry my bad, the first leg is Finnair with the 787 Dreamliner in premium economy seats then Iberia for the shorter flight in regular economy seats. 

 

Sorry but still not correct. The first leg is definitely AA, they're the only airline doing DFW-MAD on a 787. Finnair codeshares (as do Iberia and British Airways), but it's an AA flight - AA36. I've taken it probably 40 times over the last decade, as recently as a month ago 🙂

 

4 minutes ago, Post Captain said:

 

Quite understandable.  But again, unless there's something I'm overlooking, the flight isn't operated by Finnair--it's the same codeshare with American Airlines et al, aboard an American Airlines aircraft.

 

(If you really want to spend about... oh, a good 12 or 14 hours on various airplanes and in several different airport lounges... you could probably fly Finnair to Helsinki and change there for a flight to Spain.  But I wouldn't recommend that routing!😁)

 

If you were desperate to take Finnair, you could, but it would involve a lot of changes - most likely AA DFW-ORD, Finnair ORD-HEL, and Finnair HEL-BCN. No thanks. 

 

[Zach1213]

5 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

Okay so what is a code share? And why is it important to know which airline is operating the aircraft? I fly all the time but I’m new to transatlantic flying. 

 

Codeshares are essentially marketing gimicks, for lack of a better term. In this case, Finnair, British Airways, Iberia, and American Airlines are all part of the OneWorld airline alliance (one of the big three alliances in the world). And, in this case, those four airlines all put their own flight number on the same DFW-MAD flight. But, only one airline can actually operate the flight...in this case, American Airlines as AA36. The other airlines just put their flight numbers on the AA flight for marketing purposes. I would argue MOST longhaul international flights around the world have multiple flight numbers on them, though of course only one airline can operate any given flight. 

 

AA36 from DFW to MAD (https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-tracker/AA/36) is also Finnair 4002, BA 1512, Iberia 4607, El Al 8037, and Royal Jordanian 7021. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Zach1213

[Post Captain]

2 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

If you were desperate to take Finnair, you could, but it would involve a lot of changes - most likely AA DFW-ORD, Finnair ORD-HEL, and Finnair HEL-BCN. No thanks. 

 

 

Only recommended if you're a demented Av geek, or want to make a Youtube video to rival Noel Philips et al, or are taking part in The Amazing Race!  And even then...

[cruisinqt]

1 minute ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Sorry but still not correct. The first leg is definitely AA, they're the only airline doing DFW-MAD on a 787. Finnair codeshares (as do Iberia and British Airways), but it's an AA flight - AA36. I've taken it probably 40 times over the last decade, as recently as a month ago 🙂

 

 

If you were desperate to take Finnair, you could, but it would involve a lot of changes - most likely AA DFW-ORD, Finnair ORD-HEL, and Finnair HEL-BCN. No thanks. 

 

I travel all over the US and to neighboring countries like Canada quite frequently but none have been transatlantic so it’s all new to me and very confusing. It’s flight 4607 with Finnair for the 787 Dreamliner in premium economy seats. Then the short flight is flight 3014 with Iberia. But you’re right it says operated by AA. I’m confused. So it’s all operated by AA but it says Finnair and Iberia on it. I don’t really care which airline gets me there as long as we get premium economy seats and the price is reasonable. Ugh I guess I need to do more research to understand it all. Thanks for your help. 

[cruisinqt]

11 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Codeshares are essentially marketing gimicks, for lack of a better term. In this case, Finnair, British Airways, Iberia, and American Airlines are all part of the OneWorld airline alliance (one of the big three alliances in the world). And, in this case, those four airlines all put their own flight number on the same DFW-MAD flight. But, only one airline can actually operate the flight...in this case, American Airlines as AA36. The other airlines just put their flight numbers on the AA flight for marketing purposes. I would argue MOST longhaul international flights around the world have multiple flight numbers on them, though of course only one airline can operate any given flight. 

 

AA36 from DFW to MAD (https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-tracker/AA/36) is also Finnair 4002, BA 1512, Iberia 4607, El Al 8037, and Royal Jordanian 7021. 

Oh ok well that makes more sense. I agree that it sounds like a crazy idea someone in marketing came up with. Thanks for the info. 

[Zach1213]

10 minutes ago, Post Captain said:

 

Only recommended if you're a demented Av geek, or want to make a Youtube video to rival Noel Philips et al, or are taking part in The Amazing Race!  And even then...

 

I am an AvGeek (not a demented one, though), and I wouldn't take that route unless I was re-routed on to it from something more convenient 🙂 I mean...I HAVE done routes like that, but not on purpose. 

 

7 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

 So it’s all operated by AA but it says Finnair and Iberia on it. I don’t really care which airline gets me there as long as we get premium economy seats and the price is reasonable. Ugh I guess I need to do more research to understand it all. Thanks for your help. 

 

DFW-MAD will be AA; MAD-BCN will be Iberia. The "operated by" carrier is what matters. It's entirely possible to be on "Finnair 123 operated by Iberia, connecting to Iberia 123 operated by Finnair". Made up example, but it's possible...and all that matters is the "operated by". 

AA doesn't operate MAD-BCN, so yeah...your flight here would be DFW-MAD on AA, and MAD-BCN on Iberia. 

[cruisinqt]

13 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

 

I am an AvGeek (not a demented one, though), and I wouldn't take that route unless I was re-routed on to it from something more convenient 🙂 I mean...I HAVE done routes like that, but not on purpose. 

 

 

DFW-MAD will be AA; MAD-BCN will be Iberia. The "operated by" carrier is what matters. It's entirely possible to be on "Finnair 123 operated by Iberia, connecting to Iberia 123 operated by Finnair". Made up example, but it's possible...and all that matters is the "operated by". 

AA doesn't operate MAD-BCN, so yeah...your flight here would be DFW-MAD on AA, and MAD-BCN on Iberia. 

Thanks that makes more sense 

[Post Captain]

27 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

I travel all over the US and to neighboring countries like Canada quite frequently but none have been transatlantic so it’s all new to me and very confusing. It’s flight 4607 with Finnair for the 787 Dreamliner in premium economy seats. Then the short flight is flight 3014 with Iberia. But you’re right it says operated by AA. I’m confused. So it’s all operated by AA but it says Finnair and Iberia on it. I don’t really care which airline gets me there as long as we get premium economy seats and the price is reasonable. Ugh I guess I need to do more research to understand it all. Thanks for your help. 

Don't worry... It only sounds confusing.

 

The main reason why I want to know which airline's airplane I will be flying aboard is that different airlines have different cabin configurations, different seat design and dimensions, different menus, etc.  For example a 787-9 in Airline X's fleet will not be identical to a 787-9 in Airline Z's fleet, in terms of those aspects that I just listed.

 

Before I book an international flight, I not only check the routing options (including the most convenient airports for my trip and the most convenient departure and arrival times), but also the specific aircraft type.  I'm not quite as tall as your husband, but am well over 6 feet, and at my advanced age I certainly don't enjoy being packed into a 29"-pitch Economy seat like a sardine. (Virgin Atlantic A330-300, I'm looking at you!)

 

Getting to know different types of aircraft and different airlines is akin to getting to know different ships and cruise lines, and which ones you prefer.  It comes with time, if you're lucky enough to cruise and fly often enough.

 

This website will help you compare different aircraft operated by different airlines:

https://seatmaps.com/airlines/

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Post Captain

[Twickenham]

1 hour ago, Zach1213 said:

EDIT - one other option...Barcelona is lovely, but so is Madrid. One option is to split your couple of days between Madrid and Barcelona. Fly in to Madrid, spend the first day or two there, take a train to Barcelona, day or two there, and then the cruise. 

 

Great minds indeed - this was EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read her post - Madrid is a great city, definitely worth a couple of days, and the train is easy, with Madrid's Atocha station being a destination in itself, especially if you like turtles... 😁

 

BTW, I am in no position to criticize the whole Finnair routing via HEL, as the 2 times I flew to BCN I connected in Istanbul and Warsaw, respectively... 

[cruisinqt]

2 hours ago, Twickenham said:

 

Great minds indeed - this was EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read her post - Madrid is a great city, definitely worth a couple of days, and the train is easy, with Madrid's Atocha station being a destination in itself, especially if you like turtles... 😁

 

BTW, I am in no position to criticize the whole Finnair routing via HEL, as the 2 times I flew to BCN I connected in Istanbul and Warsaw, respectively... 

So if we flew into Madrid could we take the train over to Barcelona? Is it a long train ride? Or expensive?

[cruisinqt]

3 hours ago, Post Captain said:

Don't worry... It only sounds confusing.

 

The main reason why I want to know which airline's airplane I will be flying aboard is that different airlines have different cabin configurations, different seat design and dimensions, different menus, etc.  For example a 787-9 in Airline X's fleet will not be identical to a 787-9 in Airline Z's fleet, in terms of those aspects that I just listed.

 

Before I book an international flight, I not only check the routing options (including the most convenient airports for my trip and the most convenient departure and arrival times), but also the specific aircraft type.  I'm not quite as tall as your husband, but am well over 6 feet, and at my advanced age I certainly don't enjoy being packed into a 29"-pitch Economy seat like a sardine. (Virgin Atlantic A330-300, I'm looking at you!)

 

Getting to know different types of aircraft and different airlines is akin to getting to know different ships and cruise lines, and which ones you prefer.  It comes with time, if you're lucky enough to cruise and fly often enough.

 

This website will help you compare different aircraft operated by different airlines:

https://seatmaps.com/airlines/

 

 

 

 

I’ll definitely be checking out that website. There are several options to choose from so this will be a lot of help. Thanks for the info. 

[Twickenham]

39 minutes ago, cruisinqt said:

So if we flew into Madrid could we take the train over to Barcelona? Is it a long train ride? Or expensive?

 

I would call this a very easy first European train trip. Not long, between 2 1/2- to 3-hour trip depending on which train you take, and looking at the Renfe website at random dates you should be able to get tickets in the 20 euro range including seat reservation. We took this train the other way (Barcelona to Madrid) and it was a very enjoyable trip. The one thing that is slightly different from other countries is that there is a security point before going to the platform (bags x-rayed), so just have to give yourself a few minutes for that.

 

The best website for info on anything train related is The Man in Seat 61. The Barcelona-Madrid page details all of the options - there's now 4 different companies serving this market, so you have choices!

[em-sk]

8 hours ago, cruisinqt said:

I travel all over the US and to neighboring countries like Canada quite frequently but none have been transatlantic so it’s all new to me and very confusing. It’s flight 4607 with Finnair for the 787 Dreamliner in premium economy seats. Then the short flight is flight 3014 with Iberia. But you’re right it says operated by AA. I’m confused. So it’s all operated by AA but it says Finnair and Iberia on it. I don’t really care which airline gets me there as long as we get premium economy seats and the price is reasonable. Ugh I guess I need to do more research to understand it all. Thanks for your help. 

 

So the operating airlines is the one that owns the aircraft, supplies the staff and provides the service.   At the airport you check in with the operating airlines counter..

 

Airlines can't fly everywhere in the world their customers want to go so they need to partner. The basic type of partnership is called an interline and the more sophisticated deeper type of partnership is called a codeshare.

 

Finnair is selling you a ticket that includes a flight operated by American and the second flight operated by Iberia.  When they do this as a codeshare the American flight has both an American and Finnair flight number.  

 

There are three major international alliances.  Skyteam, OneWorld, and Star Alliance.   Not all airlines are in alliances but many are and they codeshare extensively within their alliances.  

 

American, Alaska, Finnair, British Airways, Iberia are all part of the OneWorld alliance.  So they sell seats on each other flights all the time.

 

Since you said you fly into Canada.  Air Canada and United (both in the Star Alliance) are codeshare partners so many Air Canada operated flights also have United numbers and many United flights have Air Canada numbers.  

 

[cruisinqt]

12 hours ago, em-sk said:

 

So the operating airlines is the one that owns the aircraft, supplies the staff and provides the service.   At the airport you check in with the operating airlines counter..

 

Airlines can't fly everywhere in the world their customers want to go so they need to partner. The basic type of partnership is called an interline and the more sophisticated deeper type of partnership is called a codeshare.

 

Finnair is selling you a ticket that includes a flight operated by American and the second flight operated by Iberia.  When they do this as a codeshare the American flight has both an American and Finnair flight number.  

 

There are three major international alliances.  Skyteam, OneWorld, and Star Alliance.   Not all airlines are in alliances but many are and they codeshare extensively within their alliances.  

 

American, Alaska, Finnair, British Airways, Iberia are all part of the OneWorld alliance.  So they sell seats on each other flights all the time.

 

Since you said you fly into Canada.  Air Canada and United (both in the Star Alliance) are codeshare partners so many Air Canada operated flights also have United numbers and many United flights have Air Canada numbers.  

 

Okay now that makes a lot more sense thanks. 

[waterbug123]

On 12/10/2022 at 6:08 PM, cruisinqt said:

The nonstops are out of JFK and MIA only. So I would have to catch a flight to one of those airports.

Are you checking all airlines or just AA? 

[cruisinqt]

6 minutes ago, waterbug123 said:

Are you checking all airlines or just AA? 

I’ve been using skyscanner and kayak to compare multiple sites. We are now thinking about flying into Madrid and doing a little sightseeing then taking a train from there into Barcelona. It’s only about 2 1/2 to 3 hours via train and I hear the view is gorgeous. 

[Riverroad]

2 hours ago, cruisinqt said:

I’ve been using skyscanner and kayak to compare multiple sites. We are now thinking about flying into Madrid and doing a little sightseeing then taking a train from there into Barcelona. It’s only about 2 1/2 to 3 hours via train and I hear the view is gorgeous. 

Definitely stay in Madrid for at least a day, preferably 2. Then take the train to Barcelona. We just did it in April and it’s easy, peasy and a great trip. As has already been explained, there are several train lines to choose from including one very cheap one. I would never fly between those two cities.

[cruisinqt]

2 minutes ago, Riverroad said:

Definitely stay in Madrid for at least a day, preferably 2. Then take the train to Barcelona. We just did it in April and it’s easy, peasy and a great trip. As has already been explained, there are several train lines to choose from including one very cheap one. I would never fly between those two cities.

Is there a sight I can go to that compares all of the train options? I’m not sure where to start. We want one that has comfy seats with windows so we can see the views but nothing too exorbitantly expensive. Which one would you recommend?

[Riverroad]

3 hours ago, cruisinqt said:

Is there a sight I can go to that compares all of the train options? I’m not sure where to start. We want one that has comfy seats with windows so we can see the views but nothing too exorbitantly expensive. Which one would you recommend?

Go to The Man in Seat 61. He has everything you need to know about train travel in Europe. The section on Spain will give you all the options on Madrid-Barcelona travel. We took the more expensive option because my husband wanted to be comfortable but I wouldn’t call it exorbitant.

[Twickenham]

4 hours ago, cruisinqt said:

Is there a sight I can go to that compares all of the train options? I’m not sure where to start. We want one that has comfy seats with windows so we can see the views but nothing too exorbitantly expensive. Which one would you recommend?

 

The underlined terms in my last post are links to The Man in Seat 61 website: https://www.seat61.com/index.html

[cruisinqt]

3 hours ago, Riverroad said:

Go to The Man in Seat 61. He has everything you need to know about train travel in Europe. The section on Spain will give you all the options on Madrid-Barcelona travel. We took the more expensive option because my husband wanted to be comfortable but I wouldn’t call it exorbitant.

Thanks I’ll check it out

[cruisinqt]

3 hours ago, Twickenham said:

 

The underlined terms in my last post are links to The Man in Seat 61 website: https://www.seat61.com/index.html

Thanks I must have missed it. 

[Post Captain]

17 hours ago, cruisinqt said:

Is there a sight I can go to that compares all of the train options? I’m not sure where to start. We want one that has comfy seats with windows so we can see the views but nothing too exorbitantly expensive. Which one would you recommend?

 

By coincidence, this video trip report/review of a brand new high-speed train service in Spain was posted on Youtube just yesterday.  It shows a trip from Barcelona to Madrid.  Well worth watching, if only to get some idea of what to expect.  I must say that this train looks fantastic, and I would be eager to take this myself if the opportunity arose:

 

 

 

For more info (timetables, fares, and to book) about this service, check the official company website:

https://iryo.eu/en/

 

As previous posters have noted, the website of The Man in Seat 61 is invaluable for a definitive overview and "how-to" of train travel in Europe.

 

For an easy comparison of all the trains available on any give route, you might take a look at Omio.com.  Using the site's journey planner function to search  Madrid to Barcelona will yield results akin to those of an air travel search engine, including departure/arrival times and fares, allowing you to compare everything that's available on that route.  Of course it's far too early now to book a trip for later next year, but if you put in a dummy date for a weeks from now, you'll get a general notion of train times and fares:

https://www.omio.com

 

 

 

 

 

[cruisinqt]

21 minutes ago, Post Captain said:

 

By coincidence, this video trip report/review of a brand new high-speed train service in Spain was posted on Youtube just yesterday.  It shows a trip from Barcelona to Madrid.  Well worth watching, if only to get some idea of what to expect.  I must say that this train looks fantastic, and I would be eager to take this myself if the opportunity arose:

 

 

 

For more info (timetables, fares, and to book) about this service, check the official company website:

https://iryo.eu/en/

 

As previous posters have noted, the website of The Man in Seat 61 is invaluable for a definitive overview and "how-to" of train travel in Europe.

 

For an easy comparison of all the trains available on any give route, you might take a look at Omio.com.  Using the site's journey planner function to search  Madrid to Barcelona will yield results akin to those of an air travel search engine, including departure/arrival times and fares, allowing you to compare everything that's available on that route.  Of course it's far too early now to book a trip for later next year, but if you put in a dummy date for a weeks from now, you'll get a general notion of train times and fares:

https://www.omio.com

 

 

 

 

 

I just watched the video and wow I’m impressed. I never knew train rides could be so luxurious. Thanks for all of the info it helps a lot. We’ve definitely decided on flying to Madrid then taking a train to Barcelona. It looks like a lot of fun and a much better choice than flying.