Transfer Seward to Anchorage.

[les37b]

I’m booked on a Silversea cruise from Osaka which is due to disembark in Seward on 11 May 2023.

 

In the roll call it’s come to my attention that our scheduled transfer from Seward to Anchorage by train isn’t possible because the timetable doesn’t start until 13 May. Similarly those embarking will be in a similar situation.

 

Online I can only see coach transfers also starting after these dates.

 

We will presumably be ok as we could be given a taxi transfer if not his is available, but a bit worrying for someone who’s booked without transfers included.

 

Is this usual? You’d have thought the cruise line and train operators would communicate and ensure they didn’t get in this situation.

 

I assume there would be no chance that Alaskan Railroads wouldn’t revise the timetable?

 

 

 

 

[Coral]

I am going to assume that the cruise line will run a bus to the airport. It is quite a distance (2.5 hours or so). I would see if you can add on a cruise line transfer. Definitely contact who you booked through. 

 

There will not be a line of taxis out there to make the transfer. You would need to arrange this ahead of time.

 

Here is one company that I am aware of: https://www.pjstaxi.net 

 

Or - stay in Seward for a few nights. It is a darling community and there is a lot to do in this small town.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Coral

[les37b]

Thanks Coral. We should be fine as our cruise includes flights and all transfers (and overnight in Anchorage.

 

I was more curious how they could plan to transfer us by train when the timetable hasn’t restarted…. Or Roalroad ignore a ship load of passages in need of transfer to and from. Seems odd.

 

I’m sure you are right they will sort coach transfers. Not exactly what we wanted and were really looking forward to the train ride.

[Coral]

21 minutes ago, les37b said:

Thanks Coral. We should be fine as our cruise includes flights and all transfers (and overnight in Anchorage.

 

I was more curious how they could plan to transfer us by train when the timetable hasn’t restarted…. Or Roalroad ignore a ship load of passages in need of transfer to and from. Seems odd.

 

I’m sure you are right they will sort coach transfers. Not exactly what we wanted and were really looking forward to the train ride.

In the past - there have been a train that they run for the cruise lines and work with cruise line disembarking schedules and also a train that anyone can book. The train that anyone can book is later in the day than the one that usually runs for cruise ship passengers.

 

It is entirely possible that there will be a train transfer for disembarking guests. The train is excellent and provides great views. It is ranked as one of the best train rides in North America. If you have a choice, I would go with the train. 

 

Hopefully your cruise line will provide more information soon on how they are going to transport you to Anchorage.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Coral

[Northern Aurora]

@les37b:  As I read your post you indicate that train transfer is included.  During the height of the summer tourist season the ARR does indeed run daily trains to from the downtown Anchorage ARR station to the Seward ARR station.  But the cruise lines also charter special trains from the Seward cruise terminal (not the Seward ARR station, which is located close to the cruise terminal) to the Anchorage airport (not the Anchorage ARR station).  These cruise line chartered ARR runs leave the Seward cruise terminal in the morning.  These special charters can only be purchased through the cruise line and don't appear on the ARR website.  

 

Someone on your roll call appears to be overthinking the transfer.

 

 

[GTJ]

6 hours ago, les37b said:

I’m booked on a Silversea cruise from Osaka which is due to disembark in Seward on 11 May 2023. In the roll call it’s come to my attention that our scheduled transfer from Seward to Anchorage by train isn’t possible because the timetable doesn’t start until 13 May. Similarly those embarking will be in a similar situation. Online I can only see coach transfers also starting after these dates. * * * Is this usual? You’d have thought the cruise line and train operators would communicate and ensure they didn’t get in this situation.

There are generally two types of transportation: scheduled service and chartered service. Scheduled service operates on a regular timetable, and is advertised so that anyone can purchase transportation from the carrier. Chartered service operates outside of regularly scheduled service, according to the demands of the persons who are arranging the transportation, and is available only to those individuals specified by the persons arranging the transportation. It should be noted as well that, when there is a large movement of people, such as the passengers traveling to or from a cruise vessel, the organizer of the movement almost always will arrange for charter service, and only rarely will rely on scheduled service. This is not only out of the temporal concerns of the movement organizer, but also out of the concern of scheduled service operators that such a movement would overwhelm their capacity to provide scheduled service to the public.

 

The Alaska Railroad and several bus companies operate both scheduled service and chartered service. Your investigation of scheduled service, by both the Alaska Railroad and the several bus companies is accurate: their timetables do not begin until a few days after your planned arrival in Seward. However, given that Silversea Cruises is offering a transfer by railroad on your planned arrival date, it is reasonable to conclude that Silversea Cruises arranged charter service with the railroad. That service would not be on the timetable, and would not be available to the general public, but would be available to those individuals specified by Silversea Cruises: its passengers arriving from Osaka. Even if Silversea Cruises were unable to arrange for charter service for its passengers with Alaska Railroad, it could also arrange for charter service from a bus company (the company typically makes such arrangements with a company known as Premier Alaska Tours, the same company that operates the "Park Connection" scheduled service that you likely found).

 

The chartered trains generally depart Seward in the morning, after the arrival of the vessel operated by the cruise line that has arranged for the chartered service, and usually transports the cruise line passengers to the airport in Anchorage. In contrast, the scheduled train does not depart Seward until the late afternoon.

 

So yes, the cruise line and the railroad (or the bus company) do communicate. The published timetables of the Alaska Railroad and the several bus companies have no bearing on the chartered service arranged by Silversea Cruises.

[les37b]

Thank you very much for your compressive replies.

 

I had indeed considered that Silversea could indeed charter the train, but dismissed it because I expect the cost would be extortionate for probably 250 to 300 people. (The ship has a max capacity of 600 and I don’t think it’s anywhere near full, plus many will be staying on to Vancouver.

 

The TA did suggest that was possible though they probably hadn’t contacted them to hire. (I know it wouldn’t be a last minute request, hence why I ask them to double check with the knowledge there is no scheduled service.

 

I will post back once they respond.

 

from my perspective, the train journey is / was one of the cruise features, so I really hope it will happen.

[GTJ]

5 hours ago, les37b said:

Thank you very much for your compressive replies.

 

I had indeed considered that Silversea could indeed charter the train, but dismissed it because I expect the cost would be extortionate for probably 250 to 300 people. (The ship has a max capacity of 600 and I don’t think it’s anywhere near full, plus many will be staying on to Vancouver.

The Alaska Railroad purchased a set of railcars specifically for charter purposes (these cars were formerly used on the Florida Fun Train), and while it would be most efficient to utilize all the railcars to capacity, the railroad could operate fewer than the entire train set. Presumably its charter cost would be less for fewer cars. More specifically, there are four coaches in this train set, numbered 551 through 554. Each coach seats up to 76 passengers. With all four cars in service, there would be 304 passenger seats. If there were "only" 250 passengers seeking transportation on a train with a maximum capacity of 304 passengers (or 82 percent occupancy), the cost would likely not be extortionate.

 

For a variety of reasons a charter contract could fail. But even in that case it would be extraordinarily poor service for the cruise line not to arrange for charter buses and to leave all of its passengers stranded in Seward with no transportation.

[AKStafford]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:48 AM, les37b said:

Or Roalroad ignore a ship load of passages in need of transfer to and from. Seems odd.

It's not the Alaska Railroad's responsibility to ensure that you can get around. Your cruise ship is coming to Southcentral Alaska several weeks before the traditional summer visitor season and before many visitor services will have ramped up for the season. I say shame on the cruiselines for pushing people to Alaska so early in the season.

And as others have pointed out: your cruiseline may have a charter lined up. Otherwise you can rent a car from Hertz and drive yourself to Anchorage. Or contact PJ's Taxi or Bear Valley Roadrunner. 

[les37b]

4 hours ago, GTJ said:

The Alaska Railroad purchased a set of railcars specifically for charter purposes (these cars were formerly used on the Florida Fun Train), and while it would be most efficient to utilize all the railcars to capacity, the railroad could operate fewer than the entire train set. Presumably its charter cost would be less for fewer cars. More specifically, there are four coaches in this train set, numbered 551 through 554. Each coach seats up to 76 passengers. With all four cars in service, there would be 304 passenger seats. If there were "only" 250 passengers seeking transportation on a train with a maximum capacity of 304 passengers (or 82 percent occupancy), the cost would likely not be extortionate.

 

For a variety of reasons a charter contract could fail. But even in that case it would be extraordinarily poor service for the cruise line not to arrange for charter buses and to leave all of its passengers stranded in Seward with no transportation.

Thanks again.

 

There is no danger the cruise line will leave us stranded as the transfer has already been paid for and included in the fare.

 

From what you’ve said above, a charter is feasible.

[les37b]

20 minutes ago, AKStafford said:

It's not the Alaska Railroad's responsibility to ensure that you can get around. Your cruise ship is coming to Southcentral Alaska several weeks before the traditional summer visitor season and before many visitor services will have ramped up for the season. I say shame on the cruiselines for pushing people to Alaska so early in the season.

Who said it was Alaska Railroads responsibility?

 

Not sure why there should be shame on the Cruiseline either for arriving 2 days before the scheduled service starts. Poor planning possibly (though maybe not from the previous post regarding charters. I’d have thought it would be welcome business?.

[Northern Aurora]

@les37b:  I believe I am correct when I state that every cruiseline which ends or starts an itinerary in either Seward or Whittier charters an Alaska Railroad run for embarking and disembarking passengers.  These charters are not rail cars tacked onto a "regular" ARR run.  The fact that your cruiseline will be disembarking and embarking passengers in Seward two days before the daily summer service starts is not an issue at all nor is it poor planning.  

 

I have both embarked and disembarked in Seward during the time period in which the ARR is operating daily train service between the downtown Anchorage ARR station and the Seward ARR station.  On those days there will be a ARR chartered train waiting at the Seward cruise terminal in the early morning for the chartered run from the Seward cruise terminal to the Anchorage airport (not the downtown ARR station).  About 5 PM there will be a second ARR chartered train which left from the Anchorage airport and arrives at the Seward cruise terminal.  There will also be the "regular" ARR runs from the downtown ARR station to the Seward ARR station; the morning run will arrive in Seward about noonish and the evening train departs about 6 PM to return to the Anchorage downtown station.

[don't-use-real-name]

To be CLEAR - - -

The Alaska Railroad operates its Coastal Classic train 7 days a week

in season from about mid May to mid September

(check their schedule for the exact dates).

This train offers seating in Gold Star (Dome class) and Adventure Coach class

This train leaves the Anchorage (downtown) Depot at 6:45am arrives at the 

Seward Depot at 11:15AM --- returns to Anchorage at 6:00pm arrives at the

Anchorage (downtown) Depot at 10:00pm.

This Coastal Classic train does not go to Whittier

 

The Alaska Railroad operates its Glacier Discovery train 7 days a week

in season from about mid May to mid September

(check their schedule for the exact dates).

This train ONLY offers seating in Adventure Coach Class

This train leave the Anchorage (downtown) Depot at 9:45am arrives at the

port of Whittier 12:05pm --- returns to Anchorage at 6:45pm arrives at the

Anchorage (downtown) Depot at 9:15pm

 

The cruise lines MAY use these scheduled services !

 

The cruise ship Chartered Trains ONLY operate on the days that the cruise
line has a sailing scheduled !

 

The trains depart from the Anchorage AIRPORT at a time that is set by the
Cruise line and the Alaska Railroad - - -

For NCL it is usually departing the Airport at noon 12:00pm arriving port/ship
side at the Seward Cruise Terminal around 5:00pm

For baggage/Luggage handling contact the cruise line for details - - -
Often the luggage is check separately and trucked to the ship and is awaiting you
in your cabin shortly after boarding - - -

You only take your carry-on with passport medicines camera electronic gear and
an optional change of clothing on these trips to facilitate better handling/organization.

 

The system work very well and efficiently !

 

Any questions - please contact the authorized authorities - - -

This Post has only been generalization of the routine operation to be expected - - -
And you well know how expectations go  YMMV 

 

 

[les37b]

I can understand when boarding the charter st the airport terminal, the CL would take your luggage which you wouldn’t see again until you’ve boarded.

 

Disembarking is hopefully different. I would think  most passengers will have an overnight in Anchorage. I know we certainly have for a very early departure at 8am so we would definitely need our luggage. As long as we can collect once we arrive at the end stop, that’ll be fine. (It makes complete sense luggage isn’t in the way, so expect this is the norm.

 

We have no indication or say on the pre flight hotel and transfer, so I suspect the hotel will be very close to the airport to make things easier. Especially as you say, the charter is airport to port and back.

[Northern Aurora]

33 minutes ago, les37b said:

I can understand when boarding the charter st the airport terminal, the CL would take your luggage which you wouldn’t see again until you’ve boarded.

 

Disembarking is hopefully different. I would think  most passengers will have an overnight in Anchorage. I know we certainly have for a very early departure at 8am so we would definitely need our luggage. As long as we can collect once we arrive at the end stop, that’ll be fine. (It makes complete sense luggage isn’t in the way, so expect this is the norm.

 

We have no indication or say on the pre flight hotel and transfer, so I suspect the hotel will be very close to the airport to make things easier. Especially as you say, the charter is airport to port and back.

 

In the US we have a phrase -- "don't make a mountain out of a molehill."  Do not overthink this process.  I looked at the Silver Muse roll call for this cruise and you are definitely over-thinking the procedure.  The Alaska Railroad is not publishing mis-information.   Silverseas has definitely done this before and is not incompetent.  Both entities know exactly what they are doing.  Both have done this for years.

 

The cruiseline chartered ARR runs are not listed on the ARR time schedule because they CAN NOT be purchased by the general public  These chartered runs can ONLY be purchased by folks on the particular sailing and ONLY purchased through the cruise line.  Your luggage will be collected from the ship when you put out your luggage in the evening before disembarkation.  Following the train transfer you will collect it at the Anchorage International Airport.  With our "hub and spoke" air travel schedules many folks will be will be flying later in the day.  But those who do not travel until the next day will have their luggage for the evening.  Do not worry about this.

 

This will be a very easy process.  I am not aware of any cruise line which either embarks or disembarks from either Seward or Whittier which doesn't use a ARR chartered train.  And remember -- I live in Alaska.

[les37b]

When someone posted in the roll call there is no train service and no coaches and have called both ARR and the coach company, I'd hardly call the concern a mountain out of a mole hill. Its from the RC, I've posted this thread to attempt to get more info. I'm happy with the info given and my concerns erased. It's what makes CC a great source of info.

 

Its quite funny in a way. The ships they have that Dock in Central London have a very curious route to board. Its not obvious at all. (You board from the opposite side of the river and walk through a battleship to board! - you'd never know unless explained.)  Fortunately, living here, having an office desk that overlooks where they berth and having made the journey numerous times, the question frequently comes up. Obviously no one posts something to say its impossible (like in the thread you point out) and I've often posted the information to help. I can do that because I know how it works. I've never been to Alaska and oblivious to the due process which was clouded after I confirmed no scheduled coach or trains. This thread sorted this. 

 

To say the flight situation for this cruise has been a huge issue and still not 100% resolved. Its without doubt been the most frustrating cruise I've ever booked. Its been anything but simple - and we still don't know if it will happen as Japan still hasn't lifter the ban on Cruise ships, though its hopeful that will happen in March. This booking was originally made in March 2018. It's been a never ending series of questions!

 

You've ended by saying "Remember I live in Alaska", which makes your replies super helpful (just as mine are for those not in the know for London). Not so sure about the "shame on me and the CL for arriving before the season starts" though that someone else posted! Not sure there's much I can do about that.

 

Anyway - an informed traveller is a happy traveller - and that was the point of this thread and I am certainly glad I posted and happy with the replies given.

Edited December 19, 2022 by les37b

[Coral]

A lot of flights leaving Anchorage are early in the morning or late at night. They are used to dealing with luggage issues. Cruise lines used to rent the Egan Center (convention center) to keep luggage for those departing at night so people could walk around Anchorage during the day, then grab their luggage and head to the airport.

 

I am sure everything will work like clock work once you disembark the ship.

 

Enjoy your cruise!

[GTJ]

18 hours ago, AKStafford said:

It's not the Alaska Railroad's responsibility to ensure that you can get around. Your cruise ship is coming to Southcentral Alaska several weeks before the traditional summer visitor season and before many visitor services will have ramped up for the season. I say shame on the cruiselines for pushing people to Alaska so early in the season.

There's arguments on both sides. True, it is early in the season. But Alaska is populated year-round. Also, the Federal Transit Administration provides subsidies to the Alaska Railroad for the purpose of providing basic public transportation services. That should mean year-round service, and while the Alaska Railroad does operate passenger trains year-round between Anchorage and Fairbanks, it is not doing the same between Anchorage and Seward. (Interestingly, there is no year-round scheduled bus service between Anchorage and Fairbanks, but there is year-round scheduled bus service between Anchorage and Seward.) In the end, it is a political issue, the railroad being owned and operated by the state government and having the obligation of being accountable to the Alaska electorate.

[GTJ]

12 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

The cruise ship Chartered Trains ONLY operate on the days that the cruise line has a sailing scheduled ! The trains depart from the Anchorage AIRPORT at a time that is set by the Cruise line and the Alaska Railroad - - -

When chartered trains operate to and from Whittier, it is my understanding that, (1) on Saturdays and alternate Wednesdays when Princess Cruises vessels are in port, the trains operate to and from McKinley station (near Talkeetna), and (2) on Sundays when Holland America Line vessels are in port, the trains operate to and from the downtown Anchorage station. In other words, airport station service is provided only to and from Seward, not to and from Whittier.

[GTJ]

1 hour ago, les37b said:

To say the flight situation for this cruise has been a huge issue and still not 100% resolved. Its without doubt been the most frustrating cruise I've ever booked. Its been anything but simple - and we still don't know if it will happen as Japan still hasn't lifter the ban on Cruise ships, though its hopeful that will happen in March.

I would expect that this is a cruise involving a necessary repositioning of the vessel from Asia to North America. In that case, the vessel would need to travel from *some* port in Asia to Seward, Alaska. If Japan will have not acted timely, then I would expect that the cruise will simply operate from some other port in Asia, for a transpacific sailing, rather than allowing the vessel to deadhead across the ocean without passengers. It is hard to imagine Japan not getting its act together before then, but worst case scenario I would anticipate the cruise originating in some port in Asia other than Osaka.

[les37b]

21 minutes ago, GTJ said:

I would expect that this is a cruise involving a necessary repositioning of the vessel from Asia to North America. In that case, the vessel would need to travel from *some* port in Asia to Seward, Alaska. If Japan will have not acted timely, then I would expect that the cruise will simply operate from some other port in Asia, for a transpacific sailing, rather than allowing the vessel to deadhead across the ocean without passengers. It is hard to imagine Japan not getting its act together before then, but worst case scenario I would anticipate the cruise originating in some port in Asia other than Osaka.

 

Agreed, it is a repositioning cruise and I suspect they wont want to lose fares if they can do something to keep people happy. The option of a cruise from S Korea for example would be fine - but given the number of sea days and missing 5 ports in Japan, I'm not sure too many would want that. We've already lost Kamchatka for obvious reasons! Plus the previous month, the ship is doing Japan stops only so would be a big gap to plug. Its those 2 cruises they will have the problem with rather than ours.

 

I know we've all lived through this covid nightmare regarding will things be open or not and if it wasn't for the fact I'm on this cruise by default and would lose out massively (I dont want a refund - I've paid considerably less than any advertised fare which including flights brings it down to crazy levels.) I'd not be so lucky if it got pulled and would go whatever the option was.

 

I was on a cruise in Jan which was doing a circumnavigation of S America. I was meant to just travel from Ft Lauderdale to Lima (Changed to Guayaquil) but stayed on after wife caught Covid to Valparaiso. Had we not just been outside the min 10 day quarantine, we would have had to stay on until Montevideo as Chile, Argentina and Brazil all re-shut port access. So that's some voyage with only one stop! And now - a similar problem - Civil unrest in Equador and Peru. Makes worrying about nice flight and trains childsplay!

 

Anyway - I do agree with you that its highly likely that Japan will reopen for ships by March as has been announced last month - but until then its a waiting game and what will be will be. Travel isn't what it once was and not sure when its likely to return to what things were like pre-covid.

 

[les37b]

Not heard back from Silversea yet, but from everyone’s replies I know now the rumour someone posted that we had no transfer is false and now relaxed.

 

Amazingly, whilst just letting YouTube auto run, I was thrilled to see a video come on that started by showing the terminal just outside airport stating the service is hired by cruise lines and that this one was hired by Silversea for their Silver Muse cruise. My ship! lol Super enlightening as it not only showed the scenery, a train walk through which I’m hopeful will be what we’ll get as each carriage had fantastic view access. It ended showing the train arriving in Seward, parking right next to the docked SilverMuse.

im so looking forward to this!

 

 

[GTJ]

Excellent YouTube . . . the videographer did a nice walk-through, something that most rail enthusiasts appreciate (too many tourists only take pictures of the scenery and ignore the train itself!). I should also correct a prior post. There are four passenger coaches 551 through 554, used for the charter train that were previously reconstructed in 1999 for the Florida Fun Train (and were originally Canadian National cars built in the late 1950s), and which have 76 seats. But there are also three more cars, more recently constructed new by Colorado Railcar in 2006, coaches 555 through 557, each having 68 seats, and which I omitted previously. Indeed, the person taking the video here had a ticket marked for coach 557, one of the newer railcars, and the train he inspected had five coaches in passenger service.

[les37b]

I’ll definitely be filming also… 2 DJI actions shuck on the windows and DJI pocket for a walk thru… and if it’s possible, one attached on the outside.  Child’s play in comparison to similar through the Panama Canal with 3 cams and over 33 hours of 4K footage! Luckily it’s condensed to 2 1/2 mins from each camera.

 

 

[GTJ]

What a great video . . . it truly illustrates the engineering marvel that is the Canal de Panamá. With the same type of focus and attention to detail I am certain that you will be able to do the best video possible of the journey between Seward and Anchorage. Alas, the equipment used does not have the type of forward-looking experience that you so ably captured in Panamá (a Vista Dome car is ideal, but such cars are not used in the charter train).