Dilemma between two itineraries and lines

[Vineyard View]

Was hesitant to post this, but here goes. 

We sailed SB for the first time earlier this year. We very much enjoyed our experience. it could not have been a better first post C experience. It was an 11 day itinerary on Quest so no B2B. We enjoyed it enough that we booked a future cruise on Encore while on board for next year that is two 7 day B2B. When we got home, things went a lot south with what was promised by FCC on board, and what actually was. No, I will not elaborate. During the extended time post cruise dealing with this, we found another itinerary on Oceania (yes, I know not Luxury category) that is a 14 day strait itinerary. Fast forward, things have improved somewhat with SB discrepancies, but the process did taint the memory a bit. After reading about all the group charter etc concerns with 7 day B2B it has me wondering which way to go. That said, Reading about shortened port days and skipped ports on O is concerning, as are the concerns posted about SB, so I realize there is no  perfect world so to speak. 
We like both itineraries equally for different reasons. We have never sailed Oceania. Would be on a newly refurbished ship. That itinerary is much less in pricing than SB. Yes 1238 pax vs 650. We also realize that in many ways one gets what one pays for. 
We have sailed Viking multiple times. I realize this is a better comparison to Oceania, but we are not interested in V at this point. 
I would sincerely appreciate any input from those experienced with both SB and Oceania post pandemic who could give me some insight. 
I am sorry if this is covered post C, but I really couldn’t find much -  likely because most comparisons are with Regent and SS for a good reason. 
Thank you 

[stan01]

Shortened port days and skipped ports sounds like weather issues (such as not being able to tender or even approach a pier). Every cruise ship line will err on the side of safety when there are rough seas, they do not want to put anyone at risk tendering in rough waters or risk damaging the ship or pier.  I would not use weather related issues as a criteria. Sometimes they are able to find an alternate port that is safe to visit, other times it becomes an extra sea day.  

 

We have done back to backs when the transition port was San Juan and Monte Carlo where the ship is docked within walking distance of the city/town not in a distant commercial port.  It would not be our first choice but we would do it again given the right circumstances.

[Vineyard View]

The shortened cruise days are being called for “sail and sustain” environmental reasons. No one seems to quite be able to get their arms. around that. Some of the skipped ports are not justified by weather. Recently there were cancellations due to Covid on board in order to keep the passengers safe. So it’s a bit off the norm in some situations. I agree that weather/rough seas trumps ports in the appropriate circumstances. 
I think maybe my point is more to the difference between the lines and the B2B dialogue with SB. This is a B2B out of Venice vs a 14 day  in the Western Mediterranean. 
 

Thank  you Stan01 for your input. I appreciate it. It’s very true that itineraries do change and are out of the ship managements control. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Vineyard View

[Hlitner]

I a confused about broken FCC promises.  When we book onboard, everything promised is delivered in writing.  Interested why the OP cites an issue but will not elaborate.

 

Hank

[Vineyard View]

Hank. I will not elaborate. It was not given to us in writing. It was given verbally. It is between me and Seabourn. Sorry if you do not agree. No disrespect meant, but please respect that this is not something I am making up. My point was that because of that, we looked elsewhere, and I am hoping for some input between the two lines. 

[Mr Luxury]

Just the difference in the size and amount of passengers on Oceania would keep me from booking any cruise at any price.

Why not look at Silversea,Explora Journeys,Scenic or Ritz Carlton if Seabourn is not going to be the right fit.

[Techno123]

The new Oceania Vista looks beautiful and she is sailing the Med in 2024. Even the 'ocean view' cabins/suites have a French balcony. 
 

We haven't sailed O since Covid but definitely pre, (if you are buffet averse because of hygiene issues) one thing they did was have staff serving you from the buffet rather than helping yourself. The annoying thing was having to show your room key every time you wanted a drink but it appears they are much more inclusive now so that shouldn't happen.

 

In comparison to the behemoth's, 1200 passengers is tiny and the larger Oceania ships have 16 decks in comparison to say Ovation which has 12 so not squeezing that many passengers into the same space although space per passenger will be less.

We have done one 14 day cruise with Seabourn which was two 7 days back to back. First week was lovely, typical Seabourn. The second week 😱😱 - far too many loud, brash and usually drunk passengers who totally changed the ambience of the cruise.

 

We haven't done a huge number of cruises but personally, we are not loyal to a brand and have sailed Seabourn (x4), Regent (soon to be x3) Oceania (x1) and Crystal (x 1 but that was a river cruise 😁) We book our cruises with any of the smaller 'decent' lines based on itinerary first and cost second but would probably avoid 7 night back to backs based on our experience.

[Vineyard View]

6 hours ago, Mr Luxury said:

Just the difference in the size and amount of passengers on Oceania would keep me from booking any cruise at any price.

Why not look at Silversea,Explora Journeys,Scenic or Ritz Carlton if Seabourn is not going to be the right fit.

The size is a hesitation for sure. I did look at Explora and they will not be in the Mediterranean until June which is too late for our travel dates. I have not looked at Scenic nor Ritz Carlton. One of the detriments in my mind with SS and Regent is that you pay for excursions that are included, and we are not ship excursions oriented. We prefer DIY and private. 
My biggest concern with SB itinerary is the B2B aspect after reading on multiple threads here the huge negative impact that seems too frequent. I am not sure that these other lines offer 14 day stretches that are not B2B, so I do wonder if the same thing happens there. The Oceania itinerary is a straight 14 day, No B2B.  

[Vineyard View]

5 hours ago, Techno123 said:

The new Oceania Vista looks beautiful and she is sailing the Med in 2024. Even the 'ocean view' cabins/suites have a French balcony. 
 

We haven't sailed O since Covid but definitely pre, (if you are buffet averse because of hygiene issues) one thing they did was have staff serving you from the buffet rather than helping yourself. The annoying thing was having to show your room key every time you wanted a drink but it appears they are much more inclusive now so that shouldn't happen.

 

In comparison to the behemoth's, 1200 passengers is tiny and the larger Oceania ships have 16 decks in comparison to say Ovation which has 12 so not squeezing that many passengers into the same space although space per passenger will be less.

We have done one 14 day cruise with Seabourn which was two 7 days back to back. First week was lovely, typical Seabourn. The second week 😱😱 - far too many loud, brash and usually drunk passengers who totally changed the ambience of the cruise.

 

We haven't done a huge number of cruises but personally, we are not loyal to a brand and have sailed Seabourn (x4), Regent (soon to be x3) Oceania (x1) and Crystal (x 1 but that was a river cruise 😁) We book our cruises with any of the smaller 'decent' lines based on itinerary first and cost second but would probably avoid 7 night back to backs based on our experience.

We tend to steer clear of buffet. If staff is serving the food (as they also do on Viking) it can be more reassuring depending on the quality of food - early mainstream cruise memories,  and their buffets always deters me from those areas. 
Thank you for the O feedback. 

[Techno123]

@Vineyard View you are welcome. Again, I can't help post C  but the one cruise we have taken on Oceania was on the Insignia and the food was extremely good. Their culinary director is Jacques Pepin.
 

Food is so subjective though - I have no interest in caviar (despite the astonished expression on some of the staff's faces on the Ovation 😂) so just have the champagne, don't like the texture of shellfish so no lobster for me and I won't eat foie gras on principal so if that was a significant proportion of what was on offer I would definitely not rave about the food whereas others would be in foodie heaven.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Techno123

[Vineyard View]

Good point on the food. We loved the caviar and champagne on SB! Oceania has a great reputation around their food. How much is marketing, IDK, but as you say, it is subjective. 

[Techno123]

@Vineyard View it is probably worth reading the Oceania boards and find reviews from O regulars like MrL is for Seabourn.
 

The quality of the food seems to be a sore point across the premium lines - whether that is procurement problems, cost cutting by 'corporate' or other reasons I don't know but there are quite a few 'gripes' across many of them.

[SLSD]

3 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

We tend to steer clear of buffet. If staff is serving the food (as they also do on Viking) it can be more reassuring depending on the quality of food - early mainstream cruise memories,  and their buffets always deters me from those areas. 
Thank you for the O feedback. 

I was reading a restaurant review for Indian restaurants in our fine city just yesterday.  The food critic downgraded any restaurants which serve only buffets saying, "as we all know, the best food is not to be found in a buffet."  

[Techno123]

@SLSD I completely agree with you. The main reason I use them is to try tastes of food I possibly would not order in a restaurant for fear of not liking it, whereas if I quite like it off the buffet I can pretty well guarantee I will like it cooked fresh to order.

 

Mind you, on more than one occasion when I have been deliberating between something 'safe' I know and something I'm not sure of the waiter has advised to order both - some new favourites have been found that way too 😁

[Westiesheepie]

I was on Oceania Riviera this Feb, first time ever. While it was enjoyable and someone else paid, I would not willingly book another cruise on them. Main reason being the 600+ more passengers make a big difference! Did not like being treated as second class citizens if one is in just a veranda suite. Service was nice, no complaints but not as refined as Seabourn. Oceania diehards rave about the food and while they have many more specialty restaurants and menu was good, did not find it that exceptional. Had an especially disappointing dinner at the Polo Steak restaurant. Service was inconsistent and food was lukewarm, Maine lobster rubbery.

[Vineyard View]

Thank you for this feedback. These are things that I appreciate knowing with our current status. 
could you elaborate on the ‘second class citizen’ piece a bit please?  Is it pertaining to restaurant selections, disembarking in ports, even just overall attitude. Thanks again 

[Westiesheepie]

50 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Thank you for this feedback. These are things that I appreciate knowing with our current status. 
could you elaborate on the ‘second class citizen’ piece a bit please?  Is it pertaining to restaurant selections, disembarking in ports, even just overall attitude. Thanks again 

For example, if you are in a veranda cabin, you only get 1 reservation at each of the 4 specialty restaurants for sailings over 7 days. Suite passengers get more plus reservations open earlier for them. Another example which really made me mad was at St Barts, tender was delayed by several hours due to rough seas. We had made private arrangements and wanted to get off as soon as possible. When it was finally cleared, us 2nd class citizens had to line up to get a colored band and wait for the color to be called to for the tender. Meanwhile the penthouse guests could go whenever they wanted. The crew member literally barred me from going to the tender because they hadn't called my color yet. I facetiously asked him would this be the same protocol if we were evacuating? The suites gets in the lifeboats first? There are many more examples. Just left a bad taste.

 

Also witnessed quite nasty behavior from passengers toward the crew which to be honest can happen on any cruise line but never that many episodes on this one sailing. As well, never sailed with so many old people. I'm no spring chicken at 65 but these passengers were 80s and even 90s. 

[SLSD]

8 minutes ago, Westiesheepie said:

. When it was finally cleared, us 2nd class citizens had to line up to get a colored band and wait for the color to be called to for the tender. Meanwhile the penthouse guests could go whenever they wanted. The crew member literally barred me from going to the tender because they hadn't called my color yet. I facetiously asked him would this be the same protocol if we were evacuating? The suites gets in the lifeboats first? There are many more examples. Just left a bad taste.

I am loathe to sail with a cruise line that treats people differently by suite choice.  We have NO desire for a larger suite than the basic veranda.  It would not increase our enjoyment to have a more expensive suite.  

[Vineyard View]

Viking does the same things with respect to specialty reservations and excursions, so I am familiar with that set up. I didn’t care for it, but usually once on board we always found more options. 
 

The tender situation would have ticked me off too. I do not know how Viking handles that because we rarely tendered with them, but the times we did, there were no numbers or color coded bands. We just blended in and got on the tenders.  I think most cruise lines send out their booked excursions guests first, maybe including Seabourn?  Might be wrong on that, but based on cabins just doesn’t work for me either. I was worried about all the tender ports we had on SB, but rarely did we have to wait much as they have this operation down to a tee. It was handled so smoothly. 
Thanks for these further details. I appreciate this a lot. 

[PaulMCO]

3 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Thank you for this feedback. These are things that I appreciate knowing with our current status. 
could you elaborate on the ‘second class citizen’ piece a bit please?  Is it pertaining to restaurant selections, disembarking in ports, even just overall attitude. Thanks again 

There is no class system on Oceania...  But then again the stateroom cards are white - silver- gold and black... And some get to make bookings to the specialties earlier...   LOL.

 

We have 14 cruises on Oceania and our last cruise was on Marina in January.  We had a number of issues with food, service and our stateroom.  Oceania acknowledged these and gave us an $800 FCC which likely will never be used.

 

We did a 3 segment 7day total 21 days on Encore in May.   These are meant to be tied together and doubtful that SB would cancel a segment.  We loved these Greek and Turkey port stops and plan to do another on Encore in the Dalmatian coast and Greece

[Vineyard View]

Thank you PaulMCO. I do wonder - is there is a distinct difference though, if based on your stateroom, you have different colors of cards - how the immediate treatment may be for tables in dining rooms, access to different venues. I honestly do not know, but why the color coding. Interesting.   I have no idea if SB does the same but I sure don’t remember seeing that.
I am not sure that an $800 fcc would work depending on the overall feeling that we left the cruise with. Bit with 14 Oceania cruises, there must have been something that kept your returning. So I guess that goes back to how you felt the last time you disembarked - and that is a big statement. So thanks again. 

[Mr Luxury]

Seabourn do not differentiate between suites for restaurant reservations.

All are treated equal which makes for a good atmosphere on the ship.

Booked excursion guests are given priority when tendering in the morning as they generally have to board a bus to start a tour.

After they have gone then it's free for all and tendering is generally a smooth process.

[Vineyard View]

We had zero problems with tendering or with restaurants on our SB cruise. We DIY or private, so excursions and any priority of booking them does not impact us. Thanks for confirming 

[marazul]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:50 PM, Vineyard View said:

concerns with 7 day B2B it has me wondering which way to go

VV-

We have been sailing SB for over 15 years and have done a number of B2B cruises.  Your concern is that the passenger mix in either of the two segments may be large, disruptive groups.

 

From our experience, that only happened once in the middle of summer in a very popular Med itinerary.  It wasn't a corporate group, but a very large extended family group that were obviously and loudly celebrating something. 

 

Other than that, the vibe is bound to change some between segments whether there are large groups or not.  The first one may be "livelier" than the following ones, or viceversa.  I think if you sail away from the busiest vacation dates you will be fine.  Or, if you must sail in the busiest seasons, avoid the itineraries with the most "must see" ports.  

[Vineyard View]

Thank you marazul. We have sailed other lines on B2B, so I get the normal change that can occur with a different mix of passengers. I also know that other lines book groups, although we have been fortunate not to experience that. I have just read quite a number of posts over the past year on SB calling out all the group charters on their 7 day itineraries. Seems like a higher concentration than other lines that i follow. So that makes me concerned.

I sincerely appreciate (once again) your input. Thanks much