wines and more

[vistaman]

I am back from my first and very  last cruise on Explora 

as promissed  the wine  list of non complimentary wines 

the Moët  Champagne also the rosé is free - the complimentary wines are low quality and cheap  

the cruise was from Hamburg tot Glasgow   

the second day in Rotterdam I called my TA to cancel immediately my Caribbean cruise for December - better a loss of a small 4 fig  amount as to swallow another 5 fig fare 

some fun :  a Bloody  Mary shaken  - a cherry in a Negroni  and a spoonful of cheese over a pasta with seafood , in the evening on the buffet only soft ice - we are not kids anymore  I am on my way to 70 😁  a  5 € wine announced as very special  - last days no French butter only salted 

Never again !!

I have a lot of things to do at home but will try to find some time next week for a full review🤔

wijnkaart.pdf

[mike@sea]

Wow, these are obscene prices ! NOT(!) ok, given what their customer already paid for the journey. 

[Catlover54]

2 hours ago, vistaman said:

I am back from my first and very  last cruise on Explora 

as promissed  the wine  list of non complimentary wines 

the Moët  Champagne also the rosé is free - the complimentary wines are low quality and cheap  

the cruise was from Hamburg tot Glasgow   

the second day in Rotterdam I called my TA to cancel immediately my Caribbean cruise for December - better a loss of a small 4 fig  amount as to swallow another 5 fig fare 

some fun :  a Bloody  Mary shaken  - a cherry in a Negroni  and a spoonful of cheese over a pasta with seafood , in the evening on the buffet only soft ice - we are not kids anymore  I am on my way to 70 😁  a  5 € wine announced as very special  - last days no French butter only salted 

Never again !!

I have a lot of things to do at home but will try to find some time next week for a full review🤔

wijnkaart.pdf 1.52 MB · 32 downloads

 

I am so sorry you did not find the F&B on Explora acceptable (the things you describe are a bit comical).  I haven't been on board yet to see for myself, but it is discouraging to hear  net negative reports (for various reasons) from Explora pax, other than those written by people who are travel writers, travel agents, or those who are otherwise eligible for comped or partially comped cruises.

 

Unfortunately too many "luxury" and "inclusive" lines try and pass off poor quality, typically also inexpensive but included wines as "special", so apparently Explora is just following the trend of fooling people who don't know any better or who are happy enough with 'whatever is free' as a wine.  That is one of many reasons I like Hapag Lloyd's set-up -- you pick your wine from hundreds, listed with a fair price and fair mark-up, low or high, and you simply pay for it, no pantomine or comedy.

 

Oddly, when I click on the wine list pdf, instead of getting a wine list, I get 6 pages listing Explora voyages and no wine list.

[Nunagoras]

Welcome aboard our as crazy as Explora CC Boards!... How I understand you and your story. True luxury clients want true luxury. Nothing more to discuss here.

 

It is curious that, across the board on the other social media it is certain to admit that:

 

1. Nobody feels indifferent to Explora.

2. The shorter, older, more mature, better traveled crowd, usual luxe lines clients hates them.

3. The larger, younger, very affluent, 35-55 yo crowd generally raves all about them and while finding it extremely expensive, they're likely to consider a new cruise with them in occasion.

 

Explora will need to rethink this one. If younger, very affluent clients were to be their market target from the beginning, better for them to have gone Virgin/X/Princess segment sized ships rather than this... But now this is the hardware they already have! They have more than likely done such a bad market analysis on what should and shouldn't work. Bad market analysis leads to bad decision making. It is quite automatic. Sure; there is a growing number of 35-55 yo affluent to very affluent individuals on the west; but are they really that prepared for SS/SB/RSS/HL level yet? Do they have access to what EJ is really about?... Is EJ prepared for a serious relaunch at top level?... To many questions. I hope though to have an opportunity before those ships will be likely turned just MSC Lirica+ class one day... But; of course I understand the craziness here demonstrated.

 

Have a wonderful weekend, and at least may you save your best memories out of this one, while understanding the bad ones. The unique ones of us without a bad experience out there are the ones whom never try any new experience!

[florisdekort]

3 hours ago, Nunagoras said:

 

3. The larger, younger, very affluent, 35-55 yo crowd generally raves all about them and while finding it extremely expensive, they're likely to consider a new cruise with them in occasion.

 

The only people so far that I’ve seen “rave” about Explora are travel agents and influencers on free cruises. 
 

We’re in our mid 40s and our first Explora cruise is 20 October, so let’s see. I’m going with an open mind, but a lot of what I’m reading on here is discouraging. 
 

 

[vistaman]

6 hours ago, florisdekort said:

The only people so far that I’ve seen “rave” about Explora are travel agents and influencers on free cruises. 
 

We’re in our mid 40s and our first Explora cruise is 20 October, so let’s see. I’m going with an open mind, but a lot of what I’m reading on here is discouraging. 
 

 

that is very true 

I was surrounded by a lot of travel agents and influencers  travelling for free , they not even had to pay gratuities or taxes 

the last night in the lobby bar some 15 did a farewell with the free Moët  - several as drunk as possible - and that is not a lie at all! 

 

 

[vistaman]

10 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

 

I am so sorry you did not find the F&B on Explora acceptable (the things you describe are a bit comical).  I haven't been on board yet to see for myself, but it is discouraging to hear  net negative reports (for various reasons) from Explora pax, other than those written by people who are travel writers, travel agents, or those who are otherwise eligible for comped or partially comped cruises.

 

Unfortunately too many "luxury" and "inclusive" lines try and pass off poor quality, typically also inexpensive but included wines as "special", so apparently Explora is just following the trend of fooling people who don't know any better or who are happy enough with 'whatever is free' as a wine.  That is one of many reasons I like Hapag Lloyd's set-up -- you pick your wine from hundreds, listed with a fair price and fair mark-up, low or high, and you simply pay for it, no pantomine or comedy.

 

Oddly, when I click on the wine list pdf, instead of getting a wine list, I get 6 pages listing Explora voyages and no wine list.

unfortunately for that disaster  i gave up a Nordic cruise on HL  as so far I never did a full Britain cruise contarely to my many Nordic cruises 

i am adding the list once again 

wijnkaart.pdf

[Nunagoras]

9 hours ago, florisdekort said:

The only people so far that I’ve seen “rave” about Explora are travel agents and influencers on free cruises. 
 

We’re in our mid 40s and our first Explora cruise is 20 October, so let’s see. I’m going with an open mind, but a lot of what I’m reading on here is discouraging. 
 

 

Don't forget other languages than English. I have Portuguese and I also understand Spanish and some Italian, and to an extent I capture German.

 

From a comprehensive Portuguese cruise blogger with quite a crowd around him:

 

He was invited, but he paid port taxes.

Onboard he would pay for shore excursions and whatever add on to be had.

He was on a basic entry level cabin.

He enjoyed the cruise to an extent. Too critical of the shore excursions prices.

He says he would be onboard only if the product becomes half inclusive at a relatively lower price set.

 

Several Italian/Spanish/German on same quarters, mostly paying costumers. mostly raving the product with minor complaints, shore ex quotes being the main one.

 

Sadly E will suffer from very same cultural barriers we have on mainstream MSC. That won't help either.

 

They'll be somewhat popular if they adapt a Viking model, of course family oriented sort of cruising.

 

My best bet is that they'll run the "test drive" season for E2 onward in a different setting than E1. E2 is set to be finished by spring 2024, as far as I know, but they only commit for commercial sailings on mid August onward as far as the ongoing officious PDF says. They make it differently.

[vistaman]

no single one of the Belgian TA,  journalists or influencers was paying port taxes neither gratuities 

I do know them all ...  

[Catlover54]

On 9/3/2023 at 12:23 AM, vistaman said:

unfortunately for that disaster  i gave up a Nordic cruise on HL  as so far I never did a full Britain cruise contarely to my many Nordic cruises 

i am adding the list once again 

wijnkaart.pdf 1.52 MB · 14 downloads

 

It worked this time, thank you. 

[vistaman]

31 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

 

It worked this time, thank you. 

i hope one day we will meet  on a real luxury ship 

[Limonadier]

On 9/2/2023 at 1:48 PM, vistaman said:

I am back from my first and very  last cruise on Explora 

as promissed  the wine  list of non complimentary wines 

the Moët  Champagne also the rosé is free - the complimentary wines are low quality and cheap  

the cruise was from Hamburg tot Glasgow   

the second day in Rotterdam I called my TA to cancel immediately my Caribbean cruise for December - better a loss of a small 4 fig  amount as to swallow another 5 fig fare 

some fun :  a Bloody  Mary shaken  - a cherry in a Negroni  and a spoonful of cheese over a pasta with seafood , in the evening on the buffet only soft ice - we are not kids anymore  I am on my way to 70 😁  a  5 € wine announced as very special  - last days no French butter only salted 

Never again !!

I have a lot of things to do at home but will try to find some time next week for a full review🤔

wijnkaart.pdf 1.52 MB · 105 downloads

 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm curious, if customers onboard are complaining about the non-inspiring cheap wines and spirits or not ? If yes does management seems to be looking at fixing  or to make modifications  ?  Or customer are content with the offerings ? I will bring some wines out of my cellar anyway when I sail for my first Explora 1 in November if it's possible to do so.

[vistaman]

7 hours ago, Limonadier said:

 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm curious, if customers onboard are complaining about the non-inspiring cheap wines and spirits or not ? If yes does management seems to be looking at fixing  or to make modifications  ?  Or customer are content with the offerings ? I will bring some wines out of my cellar anyway when I sail for my first Explora 1 in November if it's possible to do so.

I did it as well  but after the second bottle I got "long faces"  maybe a tip could help but I was not in the mood to give gratuities  only to my very good room attendant 

another item what is not "luxury" at all  : if ordering breakfast in room somebody is bring the tray and put it on the table that is it ...no tablecloth 

[vistaman]

nothing wrong with the spirits  only far too many  extra's free on board on other all inclusive companies

and of course Explora can mask a lot by the free Moët  - what is a big name

real wine lovers are not crazy about that brand at al 

and the free bottle of wodka Belvedere in the suite is a 20 cl bottle 

 

[English Tim]

I always travel with an open mind, but all the marketing information suggests that it is all inclusive apart from the very few premium, spirits and champagnes. Reports that I have read in social media suggests that many more drinks are extra than would’ve been expected.

 

If there is false marketing, it would seem unwise as the line will be looking for repeat business.

I recall when Azamara promoted their all-inclusive product and when we got on board, most of the bar menu was for premium drinks, and there was a small list of included products.

 

there was a good deal of this quiet on social media, but the rest of the product was so good that the dissent was masked.

[vistaman]

1 hour ago, English Tim said:

I always travel with an open mind, but all the marketing information suggests that it is all inclusive apart from the very few premium, spirits and champagnes. Reports that I have read in social media suggests that many more drinks are extra than would’ve been expected.

 

If there is false marketing, it would seem unwise as the line will be looking for repeat business.

I recall when Azamara promoted their all-inclusive product and when we got on board, most of the bar menu was for premium drinks, and there was a small list of included products.

 

there was a good deal of this quiet on social media, but the rest of the product was so good that the dissent was masked.

I am sorry but the free Moët cannot mask the fact that I had a bad cruise - it was a failure 

Explora did introduce itself as extremely luxurious but it was far from that 

yes I must confirm your qualification "false marketing" 

[JTor]

On 9/2/2023 at 2:48 PM, vistaman said:

I am back from my first and very  last cruise on Explora 

as promissed  the wine  list of non complimentary wines 

the Moët  Champagne also the rosé is free - the complimentary wines are low quality and cheap  

the cruise was from Hamburg tot Glasgow   

the second day in Rotterdam I called my TA to cancel immediately my Caribbean cruise for December - better a loss of a small 4 fig  amount as to swallow another 5 fig fare 

some fun :  a Bloody  Mary shaken  - a cherry in a Negroni  and a spoonful of cheese over a pasta with seafood , in the evening on the buffet only soft ice - we are not kids anymore  I am on my way to 70 😁  a  5 € wine announced as very special  - last days no French butter only salted 

Never again !!

I have a lot of things to do at home but will try to find some time next week for a full review🤔

wijnkaart.pdf 1.52 MB · 123 downloads

Could you post the included wines please? these prices are quite normal here in Canada but it is beyond me why anyone would pay for a “drinks included” cruise and then reject the included wine in favour of paying full price for fairly boring expensive European wine that they could get at home.

 

I’m sorry you didn’t have a nice time.  I’m perplexed though by the comments in this thread suggesting that there have been ever so many reviews of this ship when it has been sailing for less than a month…. how many “real people” have even been on the ship yet?  Yes we are likely hearing a lot from people who are biased because they were “comped” but we may similarly be hearing from people who are biased because they got on board a ship before it had even been taken out of its packaging….. perhaps we need a few more months or even a year before we can really judge “who will like it” or if anyone will? I am going to try to keep an open mind and judge for myself when I get on board.  (also making a lot of assumptions about what people in their 30-50’s will or won’t want or tolerate if you are yourself a lot older is a bit offensive.  I don’t assume I know what you want, and you probably don’t really know what I want either.  How about you report your experience and I will report mine? Then we can learn from each other)

[vistaman]

I am afraid I do not have the list but I am adding the barlist where a few wines are listed as well.

There was a French Chardonnay as well from "somewhere" in France ,  and a  German Riesling by Dr Loossen a "better" winery in Mosel area  it was a dry one but Mosel  in general is less dry as the other German wine area's  and a Gruner Veltliner from Austria what was quite sharp and sour. 

Rheingau and Rheinhessen are better for Riesling. 

I never drink complimentary red wines , also not on other companies. 

One must take in consideration  that cruise companies do buy  'free on board"( also known as FOB )   so no single tax , no excise duty, no VAT no sales tax at all. 

To give you one example : a Meursault at 300 € is very expensive even in a luxury restaurant  , a good friend of mine does have a decent Meursault on his wine list for 160 € and he is starred 

My favorite Meursault by Latour is now 90 € retail  but for a cruise company  deduct 30 %  when they buy a serious quantity and then deduct the taxes ... 

It is very surprising that on the mothercompany  MSC in Yacht Club the wines are very reasonable including top Champagnes and several of those spirits causing an extra are free in YC as well...

On EJ you can bring your own wines on MSC not at all . 

I went to buy 2bottles in Southampton and the store keeper said : well sir, too expensive wines on the ship I believe  ? 

and i repeat  :  the free Moët is smoothing a lot for a lot of people 

barlist.pdf

[Dr. Cocktail]

12 hours ago, JTor said:

 

 

I’m sorry you didn’t have a nice time.  I’m perplexed though by the comments in this thread suggesting that there have been ever so many reviews of this ship when it has been sailing for less than a month…. how many “real people” have even been on the ship yet?  Yes we are likely hearing a lot from people who are biased because they were “comped” but we may similarly be hearing from people who are biased because they got on board a ship before it had even been taken out of its packaging….. perhaps we need a few more months or even a year before we can really judge “who will like it” or if anyone will? I am going to try to keep an open mind and judge for myself when I get on board.  (also making a lot of assumptions about what people in their 30-50’s will or won’t want or tolerate if you are yourself a lot older is a bit offensive.  I don’t assume I know what you want, and you probably don’t really know what I want either.  How about you report your experience and I will report mine? Then we can learn from each other)

Whoa, whoa, whoa .... not liking this common sense Canadian vibe from you.  It's mean, triggering and possibly offensive.

 

.... and basically what I've been saying on these boards for weeks!

 

There's usually a price to pay for being an early adapter but frequently many great surprises too!

 

Cruisecritic members form such a  small  proportion of cruisers and bring all sorts of "previously sailed on biases" with them.  Admittedly, the prices probably should have been adjusted for these early sailings but I remain extremely optimistic about my upcoming sailings.

[JTor]

Vistaman: thanks for posting the bar list.  This is very encouraging to me! how great that they have 0% sparkling wine, beer and cocktails! And the only spirit I need to know about is the aperol for a spritz, which I'm hoping they will make for me with the 0% sparkling wine so it is even lighter in alcohol 🙂

 

Dr. Cocktail: sorry I offended you, not the intention.  Don't slam me for being Canadian though, apparently Americans just voted us the 2nd best country in the world, after Switzerland and before Sweden...

 

Another very good piece of news: I emailed Explora to ask about the included wines and they provided me with the whole list! (attached).  It's fine for me, I like gruner and Provence rose and there is a good St-Emilion too.  However, I like a lot that they are open with this list.  We did several cruises with Silversea and despite other favourable aspects, the policies on the wine programme drove us crazy..... there was no list.... they ran around every day with "suggested" wines and it was like pulling teeth to find out what else you could have.... we finally met with the sommelier and he physically showed us the wines and we wrote them down (very nice of him) - never did understand why the list was top secret.  So I am very happy about this response!

Complimentary Wine List.pdf

[Dr. Cocktail]

55 minutes ago, JTor said:

 

Dr. Cocktail: sorry I offended you, not the intention.  Don't slam me for being Canadian though, apparently Americans just voted us the 2nd best country in the world, after Switzerland and before Sweden...

 

 

Um, did you check under my avatar?  I'm talking to you from Midtown!!!

 

That was homespun, Canadian sarcasm!

 

Not offended .... just totally agreeing with your observations and totally in line with many of my previous posts.  

Edited September 13, 2023 by Dr. Cocktail

[JTor]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

Um, did you check under my avatar?  I'm talking to you from Midtown!!!

 

That was homespun, Canadian sarcasm!

 

Not offended .... just totally agreeing with your observations and totally in line with many of my previous posts.  

OK great.  hello from University Avenue.

[Dr. Cocktail]

6 minutes ago, JTor said:

OK great.  hello from University Avenue.

I was just making fun of "snowflake culture" where we're all offended by, well, something!

 

It's funny how people were having meltdowns on these boards because of the canceled itineraries ... I was "high-five", got to rebook with a discount!

[mike@sea]

17 hours ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

I was just making fun of "snowflake culture" where we're all offended by, well, something!

 

It's funny how people were having meltdowns on these boards because of the canceled itineraries ... I was "high-five", got to rebook with a discount!

I agree with most of your observations and I believe we mostly think the same in regards to EJ. 
However, this round of cancellations and they way EJ dealt with it by NOT (!! ) notifying any German nor UK agents ( and probably other EU countries ) with booked passengers on those cruises, is an absolute shame. And inexcusable! 
That’s besides other missing information in the past and ignoring already booked passengers along the way in the past 2 years. Not sure how this is dealt with internally within EJ, but I sincerely do hope that some heads who clearly do not belong in their positions are being axed over this. That is not how you build trust with clients and agents. 
 

The new routings do also no longer reflect , what they promote and what the initial thought was. Longer journeys, new ports etc. The new routings do not substitute in any way, what people had booked before the cancellations. You cannot compare an India to Africa routing to the same old Dubai to Dubai or Miami to Barbados. So EJ disappointed many , some even twice ! 
 

That’s why people are angry, not having meltdowns , but feel they do neither get the respect nor the thanks they deserve for booking early, believing in a brand and promoting the brand, ever since they booked. 

[Dr. Cocktail]

50 minutes ago, mike@sea said:

I agree with most of your observations and I believe we mostly think the same in regards to EJ. 
However, this round of cancellations and they way EJ dealt with it by NOT (!! ) notifying any German nor UK agents ( and probably other EU countries ) with booked passengers on those cruises, is an absolute shame. And inexcusable! 
 

That’s why people are angry, not having meltdowns , but feel they do neither get the respect nor the thanks they deserve for booking early, believing in a brand and promoting the brand, ever since they booked. 

I'm in Canada and my agent never got notification .... can't disagree. My partner and I were joking how unlike most situations, EJ shouldn't have been afraid to hit "reply all"!!!

 

Let's split the difference - many here have been beyond angry while not fully melting down!