Blackjack card counting

[Wanna Be Retired]

I always lose money.  I’m quite good at it!  I only play slots.  They hate my guts.

[LittleJoefromKokomo]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:15 AM, Jetdriver787 said:

I’m afraid my bad luck at cards has only been surpassed by my bad luck at love! Our 35 year marriage is purely down to the fact that neither of us wanted an ugly custody battle where we might actually have ended up with the kids! 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

I think the cash out slip from yesterday speaks for itself!…….and that’s just my 2 cents worth!

 

I feel like a highroller compared to you 😉

[starvenger]

On 11/12/2023 at 9:39 AM, marvelous35 said:

Basic card counting is pretty simple.  I suspect most people could master it with a little practice.  This is plus one for every 10, J, Q, K, and A played.  Minus one for every 2-6 played.  So you can gauge how favorable the deck is.  This can change the odds slightly, possibly in your favor, but you are not going to get rich.  I doubt casinos are concerned about this.

 

I think putting in the reps would be the most difficult part of learning card counting. You basically have to be perfect to gain an advantage.

 

I think for most of us, knowing basic strategy (i.e. the stuff on that "cheat sheet") plus progressive betting gives you the best chance of turning a short-term profit at blackjack. Set a profit/loss threshold, and walk away if you cross either one.

[bowlinmoe]

I heard they throw you overboard if they suspect any card counting.  I don't think that's correct, though.

[starvenger]

1 minute ago, bowlinmoe said:

I heard they throw you overboard if they suspect any card counting.  I don't think that's correct, though.

I heard that they let you off if you can clean the same number of rooms a stateroom attendant does in a day.

[OCSC Mike]

7 hours ago, starvenger said:

progressive betting

 

If you are playing at a disadvantage, you cannot overcome that disadvantage with any type of betting scheme.

[starvenger]

4 minutes ago, OCSC Mike said:

 

If you are playing at a disadvantage, you cannot overcome that disadvantage with any type of betting scheme.

I think you're looking at my words out of context.

 

I don't talk about "overcoming" or anything of that nature. I simply stated what I think gives you the best opportunity to be net positive over the short term. But I probably could've been clearer, as I was trying to imply a very short term - maybe one or two shoes at most. That's hardly "overcoming" a disadvantage. That's simply trying to capitalize on the cards falling in your favour.

 

But to your point, unless you're card counting/playing with a team... yes, you're almost always playing at a long term disadvantage at a casino. That is something you know and accept once you step up to a table. 

[jerryg95]

47 minutes ago, starvenger said:

I think you're looking at my words out of context.

 

I don't talk about "overcoming" or anything of that nature. I simply stated what I think gives you the best opportunity to be net positive over the short term. But I probably could've been clearer, as I was trying to imply a very short term - maybe one or two shoes at most. That's hardly "overcoming" a disadvantage. That's simply trying to capitalize on the cards falling in your favour.

 

But to your point, unless you're card counting/playing with a team... yes, you're almost always playing at a long term disadvantage at a casino. That is something you know and accept once you step up to a table. 

 

Long or short term it is still a betting scheme. The numbers won't work. It's just math.

[BoLTMaNv2]

RCCL Blackjack Rules.  Single deck game.

 

• A single 52-card deck is used, which is shuffled after every round.   

Good for counting as there are a known # of cards (52) however the constant shuffle is basically an non factor on a single deck: Benefit Player.

• Blackjack pays 6-5.

Bad, as the payout for BJ is  : Advantage RCCL

• Player may double on any two cards.

Good because you can look at dealer up card and decide odds of winning on one more card , Twice the payout": Good for player

• Player may not double after a split.

This one is bad for the player. This eliminates extra multiple with favorable splits where one extra card is likely against dealer up card.  Good for RCCL

• Player may re-split to four hands, except split aces get one card each.

This  Normal: Good for Player

• Surrender is not allowed.

This is bad for player as you could save  half bet and use it on a better hand .You have to keep 16 or 15 and play or stay: Good for RCCL

Overall better than I thought the odds would be , I know how to count cards and Basic Strategy. this is a game I could play all night with $200.   Slower win payout at 6/5

Edited November 16, 2023 by BoLTMaNv2

[jerryg95]

17 minutes ago, BoLTMaNv2 said:

RCCL Blackjack Rules.  Single deck game.

 

• A single 52-card deck is used, which is shuffled after every round.   

Good for counting as there are a known # of cards (52) however the constant shuffle is basically an non factor on a single deck: Benefit Player.

• Blackjack pays 6-5.

Good for player , as the payout for BJ is 150%: Advantage Player

• Player may double on any two cards.

Good because you can look at dealer up card and decide odds of winning on one more card , Twice the payout": Good for player

• Player may not double after a split.

This one is bad for the player. This eliminates extra multiple with favorable splits where one extra card is likely against dealer up card.  Good for RCCL

• Player may re-split to four hands, except split aces get one card each.

This  Normal: Good for Player

• Surrender is not allowed.

This is bad for player as you could save  half bet and use it on a better hand .You have to keep 16 or 15 and play or stay: Good for RCCL

Overall better than I thought the odds would be , I know how to count cards and Basic Strategy. this is a game I could play all night with $200.

it is always amazing to me the kind of gambling advice you get on a cruise message board. 6-5 blackjack is a player advantage?

[BoLTMaNv2]

I corrected it 

 

6- deck pays 3:2 : Advantage Player

Edited November 16, 2023 by BoLTMaNv2

[Biker19]

2 minutes ago, jerryg95 said:

it is always amazing to me the kind of gambling advice you get on a cruise message board

You can get advice on just about any subject on CC, even if specifically requested not to.

[jerryg95]

27 minutes ago, BoLTMaNv2 said:

I corrected it 

 

6- deck pays 3:2 : Advantage Player

 

It is also doubtful you could play that table all night for $200.I would be very surprised if the minimum wasn't at least $25, more likely $50 or more. At those minimums you lose a few hands coupled with getting beat on a double and your $200 is gone.

 

Every player goes through a spell of at least a few losing hands in a row. A $200 stack wouldn't last.

 

 

[starvenger]

46 minutes ago, jerryg95 said:

it is always amazing to me the kind of gambling advice you get on a cruise message board. 6-5 blackjack is a player advantage?

I hate the 6-5 payout. Refuse to play at a table with that rule, land or sea. 

[OCSC Mike]

17 minutes ago, starvenger said:

I hate the 6-5 payout. Refuse to play at a table with that rule, land or sea. 

 

You should hate it. It increases the house edge by an astronomical rate. Someone posted the exact % a while back but I'm too lazy to find it.

[starvenger]

No worries. I've seen that stat somewhere along the way as well. 

[BoLTMaNv2]

59 minutes ago, jerryg95 said:

 

It is also doubtful you could play that table all night for $200.I would be very surprised if the minimum wasn't at least $25, more likely $50 or more. At those minimums you lose a few hands coupled with getting beat on a double and your $200 is gone.

 

Every player goes through a spell of at least a few losing hands in a row. A $200 stack wouldn't last.

 

 

I always do 20x so a $10 on single deck would be $200, $25 + is usually for 3:2

[OldSeaDog1969]

On 11/12/2023 at 9:39 AM, marvelous35 said:

Basic card counting is pretty simple.  I suspect most people could master it with a little practice.  This is plus one for every 10, J, Q, K, and A played.  Minus one for every 2-6 played.  So you can gauge how favorable the deck is.  This can change the odds slightly, possibly in your favor, but you are not going to get rich.  I doubt casinos are concerned about this.

 

I have a friend who was seriously into card counting.  I don't know the details, but different cards are treated differently and then how you play the hand changes based on cards remaining.  I suspect this can swing the odds much more in your favor.  To me, this sound exhausting and makes the game no longer a fun diversion.  It is work to make money this way.  By the way, he was pretty sucessfully playing blackjack and he did have concerns about being barred from casinos.

 

You are right the practice is fairly simple but to master is not. You need a lot of patience, a sound mind [not everyone has that] & a large bankroll to account for the swings that any variable might produce. By variables I mean players believe that just because they have a favorable count they will automatically win the next hand. That is most definitely not the case.

[teddie]

Indulge me, gamblers:

 

I am not a card-player in the casinos--while I'd love to play Black Jack, I am afraid I'll tick off the other players if I  take the "wrong" card due to my inexperience.  Rest assured--I won't be trying it. 

 

Now, here's my question, which goes all the way back to the movie, Rainman.  If an individual is talented enough to count cards, how would anyone know? And why is it not allowed?  Why is it any different than being an astute and observant player?

 

Don't kill me for asking,

 

Teddie

 

 

 

[d9704011]

7 minutes ago, teddie said:

Indulge me, gamblers:

 

I am not a card-player in the casinos--while I'd love to play Black Jack, I am afraid I'll tick off the other players if I  take the "wrong" card due to my inexperience.  Rest assured--I won't be trying it. 

 

Now, here's my question, which goes all the way back to the movie, Rainman.  If an individual is talented enough to count cards, how would anyone know? And why is it not allowed?  Why is it any different than being an astute and observant player?

 

Don't kill me for asking,

 

Teddie

 

 

 

Pretty difficult for the casino to prove a personnis counting cards but since it provides an opportunity for the player to increase his chances of winning (i.e. decrease the casino's profit margin) it is strongly frowned upon.  Since the casino is running the place, they may ask card counters to find a different source of gambling entertainment.

[teddie]

24 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Pretty difficult for the casino to prove a personnis counting cards but since it provides an opportunity for the player to increase his chances of winning (i.e. decrease the casino's profit margin) it is strongly frowned upon.  Since the casino is running the place, they may ask card counters to find a different source of gambling entertainment.

Of course, the profit issue is front and center--but is it easy to notice if someone is doing it?  How do they enforce it--just prohibit the person from their establishment?

 

Teddie

 

[OCSC Mike]

35 minutes ago, teddie said:

If an individual is talented enough to count cards, how would anyone know? And why is it not allowed?  Why is it any different than being an astute and observant player?

 

How - The easiest tip off is that when the count goes up (meaning the player now has the edge instead of the house), a card counter will start betting more. This is the betting part of how it works and is very easy to spot if you know what you're looking for. There are ways for counters to hide what they're doing but that's the simple answer.

 

Why is it not allowed - Because the casino doesn't want you to ever have an edge even if you're not breaking any rules or laws. It isn't any different than being an astute player but if the law lets them stop such a player, they will, to maximize profit.

[starvenger]

37 minutes ago, teddie said:

Indulge me, gamblers:

 

I am not a card-player in the casinos--while I'd love to play Black Jack, I am afraid I'll tick off the other players if I  take the "wrong" card due to my inexperience.  Rest assured--I won't be trying it. 

 

Now, here's my question, which goes all the way back to the movie, Rainman.  If an individual is talented enough to count cards, how would anyone know? And why is it not allowed?  Why is it any different than being an astute and observant player?

 

Don't kill me for asking,

 

Teddie

 

 

 

First thing, if you want to play, just ask for help.  Some people will probably be grumpy about it, but it's more likely that you'll find some allies at the table. 
 

Second, casinos don't necessarily catch on to the counting, but it's the betting in response to the count that they would catch on to. 

[OCSC Mike]

1 minute ago, starvenger said:

Some people will probably be grumpy about it

 

You could always try to explain to the grumps that whatever someone else does is just as likely to help them as hurt them, mathematically speaking, but that's pretty much guaranteed to go poorly. 🤣

[starvenger]

Just now, OCSC Mike said:

 

You could always try to explain to the grumps that whatever someone else does is just as likely to help them as hurt them, mathematically speaking, but that's pretty much guaranteed to go poorly. 🤣

It will definitely go bad for me.