Questions for recent Princess cruisers

[Titanfan22]

27 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Of course the question is if they really cannot afford it, especially since a fair number of those that talk about withholding tips also talk about the cabin classes they are in, not insides in many cases.

 

I expect if they have saved for a cruise and can afford it, they can afford the tips more than the crew they are withholding them from.

It’s not my business nor yours if they can afford it or not.  If they feel that their cruise fare covers everything that these pretty brochures tout then it should be their decision whether they want to recognize someone that provides service above and beyond what the brochure states should be expected.  Would I consider someone that is wearing a Rolex cheap if they were whining about tipping, probably so.  
 

The question is, in general, why gratuity is offered and how is it earned?

 

 

[Titanfan22]

20 minutes ago, Titanfan22 said:

Thanks for your response.  The worthy people that do the behind the scenes work should be getting paid appropriately for the value of their work as determined by the cruise line.  They were offered the position for that pay and they accepted it.  They do not have a direct contact service industry position.  Any additional monies paid would be considered a bonus and bonuses are paid from company revenues.  Cruise lines, in fact, have duped the consumer into now feeling obligated to share gratuities with these back of the house people which, in effect, now saves them from sharing their revenues.  The consumer pays the “bonus” while also providing the revenue that should provide the “bonus” Genius!

I consider myself a good tipper and when I receive above and beyond service I am more generous.  Only because I have the means to.  But I don’t tip my doctor, dentist, mechanic, builder, landscaper, plumber, banker, etc.  Are we headed that direction?  
 

I apologize, this isn’t the forum for this debate, however, my ultimate point is you be you and let other people be them.  Tku

 

I appreciate your opinion and understand where you are coming from.  Thirty years ago, when I first started cruising, you voluntarily tipped if you felt compelled to recognize a crew member for going above and beyond.  It was not required. 

 

The bottom line is the cruise lines could very easily end this debate by adding another line in the fee schedule, above the taxes and port fees that are broken out, that says SERVICE FEE $16 per day = xxx.  Discussion closed / debate over.

 

My final point is, with automatic gratuities, you do not get the type of service that you received when you were handing out cash envelopes in the “old days”.  For that level of service nowadays, in addition to automatic gratuities you still need to slide cash.  Jmo.

 

Take care,
 

gratuity

noun

gra·tu·i·ty grə-ˈtü-ə-tē  

-ˈtyü-

 

plural gratuities

Synonyms of gratuity

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

especially  : TIP

added a gratuity for the server

[Cruise Raider]

1 hour ago, Titanfan22 said:

I appreciate your opinion and understand where you are coming from.  Thirty years ago, when I first started cruising, you voluntarily tipped if you felt compelled to recognize a crew member for going above and beyond.  It was not required. 

 

The bottom line is the cruise lines could very easily end this debate by adding another line in the fee schedule, above the taxes and port fees that are broken out, that says SERVICE FEE $16 per day = xxx.  Discussion closed / debate over.

 

My final point is, with automatic gratuities, you do not get the type of service that you received when you were handing out cash envelopes in the “old days”.  For that level of service nowadays, in addition to automatic gratuities you still need to slide cash.  Jmo.

 

Take care,
 

gratuity

noun

gra·tu·i·ty grə-ˈtü-ə-tē  

-ˈtyü-

 

plural gratuities

Synonyms of gratuity

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

especially  : TIP

added a gratuity for the server

I believe that is why it is now referred to as Crew Appreciation instead of gratuity.  
However, I could not disagree with you more vehemently that the level of service has declined since the auto ‘crew appreciation’ has been implemented.  We’ve cruised extensively over the past 25 years and think the service has been outstanding since this process started with or without slipping a crew member extra cash.  There may always be that outlier but I believe everyone can have a bad day or week, maybe even month.  

[olvrxyzh]

On 2/9/2024 at 4:21 PM, satxdiver said:

The crew works long hours and very hard so I certainly do not consider the daily fee exorbitant and have never reduced the amount.  I just consider a part of the fees to cruise.  We do give certain crew members (room steward, etc) extra tip at the end of the cruise.  Don't cruise if you cannot afford it. 

 

Ditto!

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Cruise Raider said:

I believe that is why it is now referred to as Crew Appreciation instead of gratuity.  
However, I could not disagree with you more vehemently that the level of service has declined since the auto ‘crew appreciation’ has been implemented.  We’ve cruised extensively over the past 25 years and think the service has been outstanding since this process started with or without slipping a crew member extra cash.  There may always be that outlier but I believe everyone can have a bad day or week, maybe even month.  

 

I think the current service is terrific.  I don't think it is the same level as it was before.  

[TRLD]

10 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

It’s not my business nor yours if they can afford it or not.  If they feel that their cruise fare covers everything that these pretty brochures tout then it should be their decision whether they want to recognize someone that provides service above and beyond what the brochure states should be expected.  Would I consider someone that is wearing a Rolex cheap if they were whining about tipping, probably so.  
 

The question is, in general, why gratuity is offered and how is it earned?

 

 

 

 

The gratuity is expected for the normal level of service with the option for removing it for substandard service. Pretty clear about that, after all it  is a charge that one has to take action to remove

 

 

I would prefer that they remove the option unfortunately under US accounting rules the current system benefits the passengers, crew and company compared to making it  mandatory and included in fare.

 

The passengers because the gratuity accrues during the cruise and is not included it is not consider in travel insurance cost, it would be it was in the fare.

 

Because many countries treat gratuities and salary differently the crew benefits.

 

Because under US accounting rules gratuities, as long they are optional and are fully paid to the crew, are handled outside of the companies books, neither revenue or expense which adds the company.

 

 

[rideev]

14 hours ago, TRLD said:

The reason Princess went to the fleetwide pool was because on some itineraries there tend to be a higher percentage of those that do not tip or toonly those they deem worthy. That made crew members somewhat upset when they were assigned to ships on those itineraries. In response Princess went to the fleet wide pool to make sure that crew members did not get penalized by assignment. 

 

Kind of wondering how you find the worthy individuals that cook the food you eat or wash your towels as well as the other duties that support the customer facing workers that make you might actually come in contact with.

The cruise employees are on a contract.  A contract that both parties agreed to.  The $15-$20 per person per day for crew appreciation is not necessarily going to the people that made my cruise exceptional.  Therefore, I ain't doing it.  Yes, I will tip that much to whom I please.  If the cruise line has an issue with it, they should change their policy and pay their employees what they are worth, and charge me what they need to charge me.  Until that happens, you do you and I'll do me.

 

The tipping culture in the USA is completely out of hand.  It is on the verge of taxes, out of hand.

 

[TRLD]

7 hours ago, rideev said:

The cruise employees are on a contract.  A contract that both parties agreed to.  The $15-$20 per person per day for crew appreciation is not necessarily going to the people that made my cruise exceptional.  Therefore, I ain't doing it.  Yes, I will tip that much to whom I please.  If the cruise line has an issue with it, they should change their policy and pay their employees what they are worth, and charge me what they need to charge me.  Until that happens, you do you and I'll do me.

 

The tipping culture in the USA is completely out of hand.  It is on the verge of taxes, out of hand.

 

The contract includes that they are part of the gratuity pool.

 

The current system provides passengers, crew, and the cruise lines advantages compared to just increasing fares the same amount and doing away with gratuities. As I posted earlier gratuities accrue during the trip so payment is delayed requiring less upfront funds as well as not being included is the cost of travel insurance for the passengers.

 

The problem with you do you, are 1. the crew is getting stiffed, 2. failure by some to contribute there fair share can impact the decisions on when it needs to increase.

 

I suspect many of those that try to justify failing to pay would complain the loudest if the system ever did change and the fares increased by $16 per day or more. 

[IndyKid]

Ahhh, nothing like the topic of tipping to get the masses riled, it ranks right up there with MDR dress codes and people who play the towel game with the deck chairs!

 

The wife and I like to drink on our vacations, and I also enjoy my coffee and cappuccinos in the morning, so we usually do a Plus or Premier package anyway. Since CA is already included it's sort of a non-issue for us. But I totally understand the frustration it generates. As a (much) younger man I worked a second job hustling for tips as a server in a restaurant so my wife could be a stay-at-home mom. Now that I have the means to travel, for which I'm extremely grateful, I don't mind paying the extra amount, and I always give extra to our room attendant and MDR server (if we have the same ones each night). Most of the crew that work so hard to make our cruises memorable will never be in my shoes.

 

Edited February 25 by IndyKid

[insidecabin]

14 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

I agree 100%, but I’m not leaving a tip for the cook, the dishwasher, or the manager.  
 

Also, please not that due to customary tipping of a waiter / waitress, this is one of the few positions in the US that are allowed to be paid below minimum wage.  Therefore many people feel obligated to tip whether the service is great or not.  
 

 

Americans are so keen on tipping they would tip the delivery driver that brought the provisions to the ship if there was a box for it. 🤔

 

Costa have no problem with the compulsory service line item as an add on to base cruise fare, others could follow.

[insidecabin]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:39 PM, coopco said:

Keep in mind if you don’t drink a lot, you can bring two bottles of wine (one per adult) and drink that in your cabin. If you want to drink it with dinner, you will have to pay the corkage fee, which I believe is now $20 per bottle. We always get the Plus package but used to carry on wine before Plus. I must say it’s nice to not have to drag bottles of wine in my carry on. But if you only drink wine, you can carry on more than two bottles by paying the corkage fee upfront (bring those bottles to dinner).

The Regal round Britain are going from Southampton where port security does the bag checks.

Make of that what you want.

 

If you can find the wine a ship that stocks  locally that opens up options.

 

There are a number of places close enough to the docks to check what they stock.

 

[TRLD]

5 hours ago, insidecabin said:

Americans are so keen on tipping they would tip the delivery driver that brought the provisions to the ship if there was a box for it. 🤔

 

Costa have no problem with the compulsory service line item as an add on to base cruise fare, others could follow.

Not quite that simple. Costa and Aida are part of the Genoa based Costa Group. Just as P&O UK and P&O Australia are based respectively in the UK and Australia. All three are a relatively small percentage of CCL overall income and all 3 primary customer bases are pretty much non tipping cultures. As a result, they can do different practices for those lines under their countries accounting practices and roll them into the parent company financials.  In the case of those companies they are non US facing and have very few Americans on board. As such they are not competing with other NA focused brands that also take advantage of IS accounting rules concerning gratuities.

 

For example on my last P&O cruise we did not see any other Americans on board or for that matter not really very many from outside the UK.

 

One of the strengths of Princess is how friendly and engaged with the passengers the crew is. Sail on one of the non tipping lines and see if you can say the same. On our P&O cruises we noticed a substantial difference in the legend of crew interaction compared to Princess or the other NA focused lines. The crew was professional and did their jobs, but really did not interact with the passengers beyond what was necessary to do their jobs.

Edited February 25 by TRLD

[TRLD]

Just as an example on how competitive the NA market is HAL, a few years ago, tried to roll port fees and taxes into a single fare price, instead of the norm of listing the fare and then adding the taxes and port fees later on in the booking process. That experiment quickly failed and HAL went back to listing the fare and adding taxes and fees later on.

 

Even if a company decided to give up the benefits of the gratuity system in the US market, making such a change would place themselves at a considerable competitive disadvantage  unless all of the other cruise lines did as well.

[Titanfan22]

19 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Not quite that simple. Costa and Aida are part of the Genoa based Costa Group. Just as P&O UK and P&O Australia are based respectively in the UK and Australia. All three are a relatively small percentage of CCL overall income and all 3 primary customer bases are pretty much non tipping cultures. As a result, they can do different practices for those lines under their countries accounting practices and roll them into the parent company financials.  In the case of those companies they are non US facing and have very few Americans on board. As such they are not competing with other NA focused brands that also take advantage of IS accounting rules concerning gratuities.

 

For example on my last P&O cruise we did not see any other Americans on board or for that matter not really very many from outside the UK.

 

One of the strengths of Princess is how friendly and engaged with the passengers the crew is. Sail on one of the non tipping lines and see if you can say the same. On our P&O cruises we noticed a substantial difference in the legend of crew interaction compared to Princess or the other NA focused lines. The crew was professional and did their jobs, but really did not interact with the passengers beyond what was necessary to do their jobs.

P&O would, realistically, charge more and have to pay higher wages to retain employees that could earn more on other cruise lines that encourage gratuity.  This, although wages are most likely similar, does not encourage great service and hence what you have stated.  Slide a P&O server $20 and the smile magically comes back. 

 

Hence, my opinion, by paying gratuities directly to Princess, you are encouraging the same type of less than ideal behavior.  The service employee has a guaranteed gratuity, but they have to share it, why try any harder to provide above and beyond service?  But, if you desire that exceptional service, you can still tip those you have already paid tips to in advance, via Princess?

 

As others have been told by those who provide direct customer service, (cabin stewards and waiters) the shared gratuity system is not best for them and they would much rather have cash given directly to them.  If you feel they should have to share the dollars they earn for above and beyond effort, things are kind of tough for me this month, please let me message my contact info so you can help a guy out?

 

This thread has inspired me to google the history of tipping, it’s quite interesting, I would suggest others due the same if they have time.  Ironically, it is suggested tipping began with the Aristocats of Europe as a show of status, I guess some have had a change of heart, lol.  

 

 

[Titanfan22]

53 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Just as an example on how competitive the NA market is HAL, a few years ago, tried to roll port fees and taxes into a single fare price, instead of the norm of listing the fare and then adding the taxes and port fees later on in the booking process. That experiment quickly failed and HAL went back to listing the fare and adding taxes and fees later on.

 

Even if a company decided to give up the benefits of the gratuity system in the US market, making such a change would place themselves at a considerable competitive disadvantage  unless all of the other cruise lines did as well.

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying, however, I feel the cruise lines business model should have nothing to do with providing cash incentives (tips) to customer facing employees.  It’s a shell game that only gives a portion of the gratuity to those providing the service.  With 3000 passengers on a ship with average gratuity of $16 per person, that is $336,000 for a 7-day cruise.   Princess has noted this money will be used as follows:

“The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue ...

https://www.princess.com > global

Crew Appreciation and Service Charge Policy - Princess Cruises”

 

They are using this money to supplement their business expenses and for them to determine who gets what. For a two person cabin, with a gratuity of $224, I can’t even be assured that my room cabin is going to get $20 of it!  But the entertainers, who do earn more, might get compensation or bonuses from it?  This is creating a revenue stream, not collecting tips and passing them on to those who earned it.  Call it a service fee for the cruise and encourage people to still tip the forward facing employees that go above and beyond and we can clear all of this up.

 

By the time you pay all of the behind the scenes people, how much is left for the stewards, waiters, and bartenders?  And don’t forget the exorbitant administrative fees that will be charged against this pot of gold for handling and managing this money before distributing any of it out.  Also, please keep in mind the cruise lines can publicly  post / say anything, there is no regulation or proof as to what they do with it.

 

 

 

 

 

[kimgslead]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:39 PM, coopco said:

Keep in mind if you don’t drink a lot, you can bring two bottles of wine (one per adult) and drink that in your cabin. If you want to drink it with dinner, you will have to pay the corkage fee, which I believe is now $20 per bottle. We always get the Plus package but used to carry on wine before Plus. I must say it’s nice to not have to drag bottles of wine in my carry on. But if you only drink wine, you can carry on more than two bottles by paying the corkage fee upfront (bring those bottles to dinner).

My understanding, is you could also carry a full glass of wine to your table in the MDR.

[rideev]

6 hours ago, insidecabin said:

Americans are so keen on tipping they would tip the delivery driver that brought the provisions to the ship if there was a box for it. 🤔

Best comment I have seen in a long time!

[mrmarklin]

3 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

I don’t disagree with anything you are saying, however, I feel the cruise lines business model should have nothing to do with providing cash incentives (tips) to customer facing employees.  It’s a shell game that only gives a portion of the gratuity to those providing the service.  With 3000 passengers on a ship with average gratuity of $16 per person, that is $336,000 for a 7-day cruise.   Princess has noted this money will be used as follows:

“The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue ...

https://www.princess.com > global

Crew Appreciation and Service Charge Policy - Princess Cruises”

 

They are using this money to supplement their business expenses and for them to determine who gets what. For a two person cabin, with a gratuity of $224, I can’t even be assured that my room cabin is going to get $20 of it!  But the entertainers, who do earn more, might get compensation or bonuses from it?  This is creating a revenue stream, not collecting tips and passing them on to those who earned it.  Call it a service fee for the cruise and encourage people to still tip the forward facing employees that go above and beyond and we can clear all of this up.

 

By the time you pay all of the behind the scenes people, how much is left for the stewards, waiters, and bartenders?  And don’t forget the exorbitant administrative fees that will be charged against this pot of gold for handling and managing this money before distributing any of it out.  Also, please keep in mind the cruise lines can publicly  post / say anything, there is no regulation or proof as to what they do with it.

 

 

 

 

 

On your sample cruise you note that $336,000 in tips are collected. That is only $48 per crew member per day, assuming 1,000 crew. That’s not even minimum wage anywhere in the US. Most of the service staff make far less than $500 per month as a “wage”.  With tips, that less than $2,000 per month for working 12 hours most days. On an hourly basis it’s around $6.40 per hour. 
 

Justify it any way you want, some of you are just cheap. 

Edited February 25 by mrmarklin

[insidecabin]

6 hours ago, TRLD said:

Not quite that simple. Costa and Aida are part of the Genoa based Costa Group. Just as P&O UK and P&O Australia are based respectively in the UK and Australia. All three are a relatively small percentage of CCL overall income and all 3 primary customer bases are pretty much non tipping cultures. As a result, they can do different practices for those lines under their countries accounting practices and roll them into the parent company financials.  In the case of those companies they are non US facing and have very few Americans on board. As such they are not competing with other NA focused brands that also take advantage of IS accounting rules concerning gratuities.

 

For example on my last P&O cruise we did not see any other Americans on board or for that matter not really very many from outside the UK.

 

One of the strengths of Princess is how friendly and engaged with the passengers the crew is. Sail on one of the non tipping lines and see if you can say the same. On our P&O cruises we noticed a substantial difference in the legend of crew interaction compared to Princess or the other NA focused lines. The crew was professional and did their jobs, but really did not interact with the passengers beyond what was necessary to do their jobs.

 

For friendly staff try Marella where the base price is all inclusive.

 

Or MSC cruises from the UK  have been just as friendly where they know the UK pax are tips included.

 

I prefer genuine friendly over the hope of a $ in the palm friendly.

 

If the claims of package(plus/premier) take up  are right Princess is effectively a tips include line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, rideev said:

Best comment I have seen in a long time!

 

I'm knee deep in our tipping culture and find no truth in that comment.   

[Bgwest]

2 hours ago, rideev said:

Best comment I have seen in a long time!

Absolutely agree!! We Americans have created a monster that is fully and completely out of control. 

[cnice515]

1 hour ago, Bgwest said:

Absolutely agree!! We Americans have created a monster that is fully and completely out of control. 

I also totally agree but that is a much different topic than the one from this post lol.  

[TRLD]

11 hours ago, Titanfan22 said:

P&O would, realistically, charge more and have to pay higher wages to retain employees that could earn more on other cruise lines that encourage gratuity.  This, although wages are most likely similar, does not encourage great service and hence what you have stated.  Slide a P&O server $20 and the smile magically comes back. 

 

Hence, my opinion, by paying gratuities directly to Princess, you are encouraging the same type of less than ideal behavior.  The service employee has a guaranteed gratuity, but they have to share it, why try any harder to provide above and beyond service?  But, if you desire that exceptional service, you can still tip those you have already paid tips to in advance, via Princess?

 

As others have been told by those who provide direct customer service, (cabin stewards and waiters) the shared gratuity system is not best for them and they would much rather have cash given directly to them.  If you feel they should have to share the dollars they earn for above and beyond effort, things are kind of tough for me this month, please let me message my contact info so you can help a guy out?

 

This thread has inspired me to google the history of tipping, it’s quite interesting, I would suggest others due the same if they have time.  Ironically, it is suggested tipping began with the Aristocats of Europe as a show of status, I guess some have had a change of heart, lol.  

 

 

Too funny. You say in one post that the cruise lines should include it in the fare or as a mandatory charge, then in another you state that the reason crew on non tipping lines such as P&O is due to the non tipping.

 

P&O does tend to charge more per day than Princess because without  the gratuity pool they must pay more and consequently have higher fares. Actually a bit higher than Princess plus gratuity.

 

For that higher fare you get a professional, but distant staff. You are likely to go the entire cruise without seeing you cabin steward, unlike Princess where you are greeted with a smile the level of interaction is only what is needed. I have found service on Princess to be better.

 

One other impact og gratuity removal. The cruise lines tend to track numerous performance metrics. Especially survey positive or negative mentions. Another metric Tracked over time is the tip removal rate vs other cabin stewards overmultiple cruises.

That came up in a most traveled luncheons discussion with the officer in charge of cabin services. An isolated removal not an issue, a trend of higher removal rates can negatively impact future positions.

[Titanfan22]

4 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

On your sample cruise you note that $336,000 in tips are collected. That is only $48 per crew member per day, assuming 1,000 crew. That’s not even minimum wage anywhere in the US. Most of the service staff make far less than $500 per month as a “wage”.  With tips, that less than $2,000 per month for working 12 hours most days. On an hourly basis it’s around $6.40 per hour. 
 

Justify it any way you want, some of you are just cheap. 

No disrespect, however, I would like to step back and say I don’t care how much the employees make nor am I interested in compensating every member of the crew.  That is between the employee and the employer.  I would just like to insure the gratuity I pay “: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service” goes directly to those who have provided a service.

 

No, it is you and those like you that are creating a tip crazy culture.

[Titanfan22]

4 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

 

33 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Too funny. You say in one post that the cruise lines should include it in the fare or as a mandatory charge, then in another you state that the reason crew on non tipping lines such as P&O is due to the non tipping.

 

P&O does tend to charge more per day than Princess because without  the gratuity pool they must pay more and consequently have higher fares. Actually a bit higher than Princess plus gratuity.

 

For that higher fare you get a professional, but distant staff. You are likely to go the entire cruise without seeing you cabin steward, unlike Princess where you are greeted with a smile the level of interaction is only what is needed. I have found service on Princess to be better.

 

One other impact og gratuity removal. The cruise lines tend to track numerous performance metrics. Especially survey positive or negative mentions. Another metric Tracked over time is the tip removal rate vs other cabin stewards overmultiple cruises.

That came up in a most traveled luncheons discussion with the officer in charge of cabin services. An isolated removal not an issue, a trend of higher removal rates can negatively impact future positions.

 

 

Exactly, as bolded above, is Princess concerned about service or their self-created revenue stream?  What if the steward gets great comments and a great review (maybe passenger lavished them directly with cash) will they be disciplined / terminated for disrupting the revenue stream? 

This all started with an individual posting “Don't cruise if you cannot afford it.”  If someone feels I should have to do something, that is voluntary, (because they chose to voluntarily do it) and it won’t be fair to them if I don’t, maybe they should worry about themselves or NOT cruise if it bugs them.

Thank you all for the comments.  I’m sure we are all more alike than it appears, but it is ok if we have our differences. 

And I guess you’re not interested in the revenue sharing I proposed? lol.

 

Take care