Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[zap99]

3 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

That's brilliant help MB

 

I'm impressed

Normally the PE upgrade cost is part of the total, not paid separately. So for £800 all you pay on booking is a percentage of £800 as part of the deposit.

[Lizziebiff]

Just now, zap99 said:

Normally the PE upgrade cost is part of the total, not paid separately. So for £800 all you pay on booking is a percentage of £800 as part of the deposit.

When we booked with P&O we had to phone to upgrade our seats and paid for that in full separately. This year we were unable to upgrade to PE as they were fully booked, but the payment for extra legroom was done online and paid for in full at the time of selecting it. 

[zap99]

4 minutes ago, Lizziebiff said:

When we booked with P&O we had to phone to upgrade our seats and paid for that in full separately. This year we were unable to upgrade to PE as they were fully booked, but the payment for extra legroom was done online and paid for in full at the time of selecting it. 

Looking at our invoice now

Cruise cost £4,766..PE upgrade £828. Total £5 584. Deposit. £477. Nothing paid for PE at time of booking.

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Normally the PE upgrade cost is part of the total, not paid separately. So for £800 all you pay on booking is a percentage of £800 as part of the deposit.

Depends when you book the PE.  I added PE on to a booking last September. I had to pay that in full but my balance on my cruise wasn't due, so I had two invoices.  My current booking I booked with PE, it was actually a replacement for Arvia booked on board. My flight cost was part of my main fare, not paid in full. My £345 deposit from Arvia transferred and nothing else due until final payment next month.

 

I cancelled another cruise earlier this year as I was unwell.  It had been booked onboard last Christmas with a £50 deposit plus I used an FCC. Everything bar the £50 was returned as that was my contractual deposit.

[zap99]

15 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Depends when you book the PE.  I added PE on to a booking last September. I had to pay that in full but my balance on my cruise wasn't due, so I had two invoices.  My current booking I booked with PE, it was actually a replacement for Arvia booked on board. My flight cost was part of my main fare, not paid in full. My £345 deposit from Arvia transferred and nothing else due until final payment next month.

 

I cancelled another cruise earlier this year as I was unwell.  It had been booked onboard last Christmas with a £50 deposit plus I used an FCC. Everything bar the £50 was returned as that was my contractual deposit.

We only book longhaul if we can fly PE or better. That means booking early, so we have always only paid a deposit. The exception for us is BA. If we book a scheduled flight in PE, or club, they want the whole fare.

[Megabear2]

53 minutes ago, zap99 said:

We only book longhaul if we can fly PE or better. That means booking early, so we have always only paid a deposit. The exception for us is BA. If we book a scheduled flight in PE, or club, they want the whole fare.

I only started booking PE with P&O last year as my husband started to have a lot of pain and difficulty.  If I'm alone I rarely take PE, sometimes on flights to LA or Florida on BA.  I'm easily pleased and as long as I can pick my seat I'll go for anything.  A lot of my long haul is on code shares with Lufthansa who I use extremely regularly and a lot of them don't offer PE or business. My only venture to first class was a flight from Tampa to LHR on BA not a good experience as the flatbed collapsed and I ended up half on the floor all night.

 

My favourite is American, not because they're particularly great but they feed me with pizza and only allow one person to queue for the loo at a time.  As you've gathered I have a big thing about people queuing for loos!  Their internal US flights leave a lot to be desired though hence zumited/Lufthansa.  I really like Lufthansa for their customer service.  After 9/11 they pulled out of Stansted and I lost my Christmas flight.  Their solution to the problem: a chauffeured car to my home and on to Heathrow, a late night flight the day before I was scheduled to fly followed by a suite at the Munich Kempinski hotel and a chauffeur home from Heathrow 10 days later! The original flight had cost £60 each.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Megabear2

[molecrochip]

I want to clear-up some misconceptions:

 

1. Tui are fulfilling their contracts. They are not offering less planes than they were meant to. This is not Tui’s fault.

2. P&O have used at least two airline providers for years to ensure that if one goes bust, they have at least another option.

3. P&O have had no permanent second carrier since Thomas Cook went bust.

4. P&O have struggled to contract a 2nd permanent provider as the charter market is very weak and options are limited. Major airlines are launching more new route with less planes.

5. Virgin has been used for the last two years but now Virgin want to use their own planes on their own routes.

6. When P&O contract a carrier such a Tui, P&O specify the onboard service in each cabin based on options provided by the carrier. The default service listed on the carrier’s website is not likely to be what P&O contract for.

7. Whichever carrier is chosen must have all the relevant safety certifications, including U.K. and EU, for plane and crew.

[Megabear2]

5 hours ago, molecrochip said:

I want to clear-up some misconceptions:

 

1. Tui are fulfilling their contracts. They are not offering less planes than they were meant to. This is not Tui’s fault.

2. P&O have used at least two airline providers for years to ensure that if one goes bust, they have at least another option.

3. P&O have had no permanent second carrier since Thomas Cook went bust.

4. P&O have struggled to contract a 2nd permanent provider as the charter market is very weak and options are limited. Major airlines are launching more new route with less planes.

5. Virgin has been used for the last two years but now Virgin want to use their own planes on their own routes.

6. When P&O contract a carrier such a Tui, P&O specify the onboard service in each cabin based on options provided by the carrier. The default service listed on the carrier’s website is not likely to be what P&O contract for.

7. Whichever carrier is chosen must have all the relevant safety certifications, including U.K. and EU, for plane and crew.

Thank you for the information.  Going forward the charter situation most likely won't improve for some time.  Is this new company being contracted for just this season or is it intended to be a new long term partner and the Thomas Cook replacement?

[Windsurfboy]

13 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

Which if I'm not mistaken they are getting a full refund of the PE back

 

The CAA rule is 75% of the full fare paid , for each leg with no  PE ,  which is more than the PE premium. 

 

 

[9265359]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

The CAA rule is 75% of the full fare paid , for each leg with no  PE ,  which is more than the PE premium. 

 

Given that if you buy a P&O fly cruise without the flights the cost is the same as the cruise with the flights then does that make the fare for the flights to be zero...

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by 9265359

[Presto2]

57 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

Given that if you buy a P&O fly cruise without the flights the cost is the same as the cruise with the flights then does that make the fare for the flights to be zero...

 

Mr Presto always says whatever the deal with any company nothing is ever free.

Ps was this a serious question?

[9265359]

17 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Mr Presto always says whatever the deal with any company nothing is ever free.

Ps was this a serious question?

 

It wasn't a question, just an observation that separating the flight fare on a fly cruise where a single price is paid for both elements is not a simple task.

[Interestedcruisefan]

18 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Mr Presto always says whatever the deal with any company nothing is ever free.

Ps was this a serious question?

I was thinking the exact same about flights. The cost is never broken down in the booking and you don't get discounts not having the flights do you? 

[Presto2]

37 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

It wasn't a question, just an observation that separating the flight fare on a fly cruise where a single price is paid for both elements is not a simple task.

Wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic .. not a criticism just my sense of humour in terms of it was something I'd say tongue in cheek. 

[Presto2]

38 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I was thinking the exact same about flights. The cost is never broken down in the booking and you don't get discounts not having the flights do you? 

Whatever it is a LOT cheaper than having to go with other cruise lines and then pay your flights on top of the price of the cruise. It is a good deal in that sense of it all works out well with your flight. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

25 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

Whatever it is a LOT cheaper than having to go with other cruise lines and then pay your flights on top of the price of the cruise. It is a good deal in that sense of it all works out well with your flight. 

Agreed

 

My issue is if I want to do an extra 2 weeks in Caribbean before flying back 

 

Ie 4 weeks on Arvia instead of 2 I don't seem to get any saving for not needing 2 return flights that are priced into the cruises

 

Do I?

[Windsurfboy]

3 hours ago, 9265359 said:

 

Given that if you buy a P&O fly cruise without the flights the cost is the same as the cruise with the flights then does that make the fare for the flights to be zero...

 

 

No court in the land would accept that argument.  

[Megabear2]

42 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Agreed

 

My issue is if I want to do an extra 2 weeks in Caribbean before flying back 

 

Ie 4 weeks on Arvia instead of 2 I don't seem to get any saving for not needing 2 return flights that are priced into the cruises

 

Do I?

No, for the reason you're buying a package.  It's a package covered under ABTA therefore one contract and you decide if you don't want an element of it but aren't entitled to money off. There is, I believe, a small deduction for back to back but the flight element is nothing to do with it.  Penib who posted earlier in this thread does a back to back over Christmas every year so if she sees this may be able to give more information on how it works.

 

Meanwhile on the subject of the flight regulations for our cancelling passenger who complained above, the PE element is a paid for upgrade on the base cost so is part of the package but as it's paid for and separate can be billed separately - see the examples above.  If that part of the contract cannot be provided as in these cases it is fully refundable.

 

The interesting one we have here is the package bought as PE at the point of sale which was included in the original contract - Presto2, myself and Zap had on this occasion one of these contracts.  We will have paid 10% of that fare (in my case £44.90pp) as part of our deposit and as Zap shows in his example the PE upgrade shows on his invoice as exactly that.  

 

As 9265359 says the basic package has a "free" flight included.  What our correspondent says is P&O have withheld his PE fare under the T&Cs when he cancelled as they claim it's part of the contract and as such he has to forfeit it as part of the loss of deposit on cancellation.  This is the part I question.

 

If the booking states a cruise at say £2,000pp plus a PE supplement of £449pp we have a total of £4,898. Assuming a 10% deposit was paid £489.80 should show on the invoice, consisting of £400.00 deposit on the base cruise and £89.80 for the PE supplement.  As our correspondent has cancelled due to no PE being available on the flight allocated he would have been entitled to a refund of his £89.80 if he had chosen to go ahead under the new terms.  However no PE has made him totally cancel and P&O have stated he forfeits his entire deposit by doing so.  I would argue this is incorrect.  Yes, he forfeits his £400 deposit on the base cruise but as P&O are failing to provide the supplement item (PE) he cannot be responsible for that element and should therefore be entitled to a refund of his £89.80.

 

If, as happens sometimes, he paid for his PE supplement in full as an addition after booking he should be entitled to a full refund of this amount as P&O cannot fulfil the contract.  If he had gone ahead with the cruise he would have received this money back in full and therefore it would be correct he is refunded the full cost of the PE element even if cancelling.  If, as he says, this has not happened it should be raised as a query and if the funds are not returned he should go via his credit card or bank to seek redress via charge back.  He cannot be expected to be penalised financially for P&O not being able to fulfill that specific part of the contract.  His deposit on the base price is all that should be lost.

 

[JulesnMatt]

On 9/20/2023 at 8:20 AM, Megabear2 said:

Thanks to all who have posted.  Out of interest I asked which ship the affected passengers are/were sailing on - my gut says Arvia - could I kindly ask if people would mind confirming this please?  I know ICF is definitely on Arvia for instance but no idea on the other folks plans.

Britannia NY cruise for us

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, JulesnMatt said:

Britannia NY cruise for us

Are you sorted now and happy with things?

[JulesnMatt]

7 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Are you sorted now and happy with things?

Just sucking it up to be honest. Disappointed, but we want to go on the cruise and not prepared to give P&O any more money by cancelling & rebooking as others have. I totally appreciate it's "first world problems" as others have said on here & for me, it's more a case of how comfortable (or not) these flights will be (not IFE) as I suffer with back issues. It's very easy for people happy with their TUI flights to dismiss people affected as 'moaners', but I think if they were honest, they would feel exactly the same! In the meantime I'll watch with interest for passenger feedback when the first Maleth Aero's depart & hope for the best!

[Windsurfboy]

Even though flight is bought as a package it is still covered by Eu261 and the CAA  flight cancellation,  delay and downgrading rules. Thus for example they tell you the flight is cancelled , but there is a scheduled flight, that would get you there on time , you are entitled to demand to be put on it, or pay for it and get money back. No  question. Similiary the CAA rule that says you get 75% of fare as compensation overrides p&O conditions. Law trumps P&O t&cs. A court would take fare to be equal to a scheduled PE fare if P&O tried to pretend it was free and therefore zero value.

[Windsurfboy]

Unfortunately the  law regarding flights does not treat downgrading as a cancellation as you are still getting from A to B. It only allows for  substantial compensation.

 

The only arguement is whether no PE is a major change.  Therefore entitled to all money back .  What are rules if P&O downgrade from say balcony to inside are you entitled to cancel. If so use this as analogy. 

[Presto2]

4 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Agreed

 

My issue is if I want to do an extra 2 weeks in Caribbean before flying back 

 

Ie 4 weeks on Arvia instead of 2 I don't seem to get any saving for not needing 2 return flights that are priced into the cruises

 

Do I?

We had the same issue on Oceana on a fly cruise as we wanted to do three weeks. They said they couldn't do it for us as the flights didn't work as they were linked to 1 or 2 week cruises. 

[Presto2]

42 minutes ago, JulesnMatt said:

Just sucking it up to be honest. Disappointed, but we want to go on the cruise and not prepared to give P&O any more money by cancelling & rebooking as others have. I totally appreciate it's "first world problems" as others have said on here & for me, it's more a case of how comfortable (or not) these flights will be (not IFE) as I suffer with back issues. It's very easy for people happy with their TUI flights to dismiss people affected as 'moaners', but I think if they were honest, they would feel exactly the same! In the meantime I'll watch with interest for passenger feedback when the first Maleth Aero's depart & hope for the best!

You should be looking forward to a cruise / holiday not worrying about it though. Hope it all goes well.for you.