Emissions

[MicCanberra]

1 hour ago, colourbird said:

 

There's more gastro / covid etc... on land than on ships, but it isn't newsworthy.

Exactly, so the fact that they have made the news is unusual.

[OzKiwiJJ]

2 hours ago, colourbird said:

 

There's more gastro / covid etc... on land than on ships, but it isn't newsworthy.

In most cases it isn't required to be reported on land, with the exception of aged care homes I think. Plus it's far easier to work out the source of infection on ship, especially when there have been lots of sea days prior to catching it. On land the source of infection could be work, public transport, pubs, clubs, restaurants and cafes, supermarket trolley handles, kids bringing it home from school etc, etc etc. Most people don't recall that they sat next to someone with a cough on the bus, or who was at the next table in a busy cafe.

[arxcards]

6 hours ago, colourbird said:

 

There's more gastro / covid etc... on land than on ships, but it isn't newsworthy.

Play the numbers. In November 2022, there were 22% of the passengers/crew infected on a single cruise. That has happened nowhere on land, not even close. It is what it is, but outbreaks like that were newsworthy.

 

BTW, covid /gastro outbreaks on cruises have hardly been newsworthy anywhere in the world over the past year either.

[arxcards]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:32 AM, sciencewonk said:

Fuel efficiency is getting better with newer cruise ships, but the ships are getting larger, which requires more fuel, and it wouldn't surprise me if the net effect is close to zero.  The shipping industry needs to accelerate the improvements on fuel efficiency and emission standards.

 

That being said, when I moved to Australia from the US I was shocked by the lack of emission standards here in NSW.  I'm getting tired of driving behind cars and utes spewing noxious smoke.  And with the increasing popularity of American-sized pick up trucks, things are only going to get worse.  Why do we have to import the worst of the US?

 

(slightly off-topic rant over)

A ship of 5000 passengers is more fuel/emission efficient than 2 ships of 2500, which in turn is more efficient than 5 ships of 1000 passengers.

 

Alternately, we could all jump into 2000 separate cars and drive to QLD for a holiday on the beach, staying in hotels that draw their electricity from a coal fired power station. Per person, cruising presently stacks up as well as anything for the consumption of energy. But that is shifting, and quite correct that shipping also needs to improve fuel efficiency and emissions. That is already being mandated, albeit initially by cruising at slower speeds for older ships that find it hard to evolve.

 

And yes, NSW emission standards are 20 years out of date. So is our mentality of using a suburban tank to run around town and do the shopping.

[colourbird]

3 hours ago, arxcards said:

Play the numbers. In November 2022, there were 22% of the passengers/crew infected on a single cruise. That has happened nowhere on land, not even close. It is what it is, but outbreaks like that were newsworthy.

 

BTW, covid /gastro outbreaks on cruises have hardly been newsworthy anywhere in the world over the past year either.

 

At one stage our single workplace had over 50% of staff infected with covid!

[arxcards]

5 minutes ago, colourbird said:

 

At one stage our single workplace had over 50% of staff infected with covid!

In a workplace of 4000 people? 

 

 

 

 

 

[colourbird]

17 minutes ago, arxcards said:

In a workplace of 4000 people? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not that many, but you can do anything with statistics.

[arxcards]

2 minutes ago, colourbird said:

 

Not that many, but you can do anything with statistics.

Yes, you can do anything with an incomplete data set or one tainted by agenda or opinion.

However, pure numbers are a work of art.

 

[ilikeanswers]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:32 AM, sciencewonk said:

That being said, when I moved to Australia from the US I was shocked by the lack of emission standards here in NSW.  I'm getting tired of driving behind cars and utes spewing noxious smoke.  

 

First time I did a road trip in Europe and I am driving on those 120km freeway I noticed none of the cars around me have visible smoke blowing out of their exhaust😯. I've since had more driving experience around Europe so I know it is not all equal when it come car emissions but still they do seem overall much further ahead and it is sad to realise that cars that don't meet those higher standards get dumped on us🙁. 

[MicCanberra]

Yes we are decades behind.

[Chiliburn]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

First time I did a road trip in Europe and I am driving on those 120km freeway I noticed none of the cars around me have visible smoke blowing out of their exhaust😯. I've since had more driving experience around Europe so I know it is not all equal when it come car emissions but still they do seem overall much further ahead and it is sad to realise that cars that don't meet those higher standards get dumped on us🙁. 

Off Road in Australia don’t have any emission standards to comply to.

Thats like farm tractors,earth moving machines and marine.

In the U.S. and Europe a lot have to comply to some standards like particulate collectors or Add blue.

 

We are behind.

[OzKiwiJJ]

15 hours ago, colourbird said:

 

Not that many, but you can do anything with statistics.

Remember there are "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics". I forget who said that but it's always amused me. 

[Jean C]

Also, most people use statistics as a drunk uses a lamp post - for support rather than illumination 🤔

[Chiliburn]

1 hour ago, Jean C said:

Also, most people use statistics as a drunk uses a lamp post - for support rather than illumination 🤔

Some of my best friends are drunks but they aren’t really illuminating.

[Jean C]

4 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

Some of my best friends are drunks but they aren’t really illuminating.

Ah yes, but do they use lamp posts to lean on to stay upright in their drunken state 🤣 ?