Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Saga Ruby]

Conte - I see you are signed up to sail on Eurodam in August shortly after she goes into service. Are you doing the double crossing or do you have plans for touring the Continent?

 

I’ve never done a newbuild sailing and wondered what your expectations are for Eurodam. I noticed that Azamara’s launch has been a bit of a stumble out of the gate, although one assumes that HAL knows how to do it properly.

 

Donald - I see that you will be sailing the eastern Caribbean - is there a nonstop flight service from Vancouver to your embarkation port? Your itinerary brought to mind that hoary old discussion about how to pronounce "Caribbean." I heard it both ways for many years then finally took a stand with emphasis on the "rib." Reading the history of that single word is fascinating.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, no such luck as a non-stop flight Vancouver to San Juan. I'll be flying on American Airlines which has a "direct" flight to San Juan, but it involves an overnight stay in Dallas-Fort Worth, where I will stay at one of the airport hotels. That's fine with me, as a lengthy flight would tire me by the time I embark on the ship. The airline has a same-day flight in the opposite direction, with a brief stop in Dallas-Fort Worth.

 

As for Caribbean, the Oxford Dictionary says it is pronounced ka-rib-bee-uhn. I'm sure that people will still understand you even if you put the emphasis on rib. This will be my first time in the Caribbean since 2001. I'm going for a friend's 50th birthday on the ship.

 

D'maniac.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Conte - I see you are signed up to sail on Eurodam in August shortly after she goes into service. Are you doing the double crossing or do you have plans for touring the Continent?

 

Actually, neither. Friends asked us to join them on a three day cruise to nowhere from NYC over the Labor Day weekend. So we figured, what the heck, how bad could the ship be? This is a "sampler cruise". I did book a "panorama cabin" which is new to this class of ship. It has no veranda but is above the bridge and just below the Crow's Nest Lounge and overlooks the bow of the ship. Sounds interesting. If I don't like the ship I'll retire to the cabin and pretend I'm the captain. I have been looking at a 17 day transatlantic crossing on Noordam from NYC to Rome on April 5. This is the first direct crossing from New York to the Mediterranean which I have seen in years and reminds of the old days. It is an interesting itinerary with stops in Bermuda, Funchal, Lisbon, Cadiz, Casablanca, Barcelona, Monte Carlo, Livorno and Civitavecchia. After our port-a-day cruise on Saga Rose, I'm really craving a trip with sea days, and this has several. Not sure that we can make it yet, so nothing has been booked.

 

I'm very inconsistent with the pronunciation of Caribbean, sometimes using both in the same sentence!

[seabourndt]

sure they used to but nothing is mentioned in their brochure anymore. it would be cheaper than a single.

dave

[Druke I]

I'm with Saga Ruby on this one.

 

I think the emphasis on "rib" sounds better, although on occasioon I pronounce with the emphasis on "bee ann".

 

Then of course there is Himalaya. I prefer " him all ee yah" to "him ah lay ah".

[Druke I]

I'm with Saga Ruby on this one.

 

I think the emphasis on "rib" sounds better, although on occasion I pronounce with the emphasis on "bee ann".

 

Then of course there is Himalaya. I prefer " him all ee yah" to "him ah lay ah".

Himalaya was a great P&O ship.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Ruby - Sorry if I came off as offended. Re-reading my post, I said 'we' get offended, so I can understand why you thought that! But I meant photographers as a group, not me personally. As I said, I know it's an innocent mistake, so it doesn't offend me. But it does offend a lot of others.

 

I think it is all the fault of camera manufacturers, anyway. They obviously have an interest in all of us thinking that expensive cameras make good photographers...

 

While we're sharing, here are some of my ship photos.

[franu]

You have caught me! I have been lurking for a while but insisted that I would not post until I finished reading all 58 pages.

 

With all of the big and bigger ships out there, I felt that I was truly alone in my desire to sail on smaller ships only. While in Helsinki in 2002 we passed the shipyard while on the bus to our ship. The Carnival Legend was being built. As I looked up my stomach turned as it seemed to me that I was seeing my apartment building floating and waiting to be painted. I live in a 12 story building with wrap around balconies. Ruby, your description of the apartment barge fit right in with it.

 

I will only sail on ships of fewer than 50,000GRT. My only problem is I do not have the stomach that would allow me to be a better sailor. Not that this has stopped me. I have been ill in the Bay of Biscay, the Drake passage and more recently off the coast of southern France when a strange storm hit us on the same night as 5 ships went down in the Black Sea. I am certain that one had nothing to do with the other.

 

I detest the Baked Alaska parade, sexy legs contests etc. and don't drink bottled water. Visiting a small town in Italy in 1979 we were taken to the spring to fill a number of demijohns with the clear water as the local people would never drink from the tap. As I arrived I saw the people standing barefoot in the pool of water filling their bottles for drinking. At that time I also saw a bottle capping device which used the old metal caps. This enabled people to sell bottled water from any source. I have great faith in Municipal water systems.

 

I am presently inquiring about ships to replace my dear Marco Polo. After the March 2nd cruise it will be sailing for Transocean Tours. I will be on that final cruise from Rio to Lisbon but I will not sail on it again after that. The crew, which makes the MP so special will not be staying with the ship. NCL has promised them all a job but that remains to be seen. For me, it would be like visiting the home of a dear friend after they moved. It may be nice but would tear my heart to pieces to see it without them

Fran

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI FRAN,

 

I will welcome you to this thread as Ruby has been very busy with her grand kids who are visiting. I think you have found the right place here. All of us are lamenting what used to be. Many here also feel that they cannot sail on a larger newbuild...they prefer the classic smaller ships. Unfortunately the small ships are on the way out for all time. The newbuilds are a lot more economical to run and SOLAS has taken care of the rest by implementing safety rules and regulations that most older ships cannot meet. Just as the Transaltantic Liner bid us farewell...so too will the small cruise ship do the same. OBTW...you need to try Bonine for your sea sickness...it works like a charm.

 

Ross

[Kapricorn]

Unfortunately the small ships are on the way out for all time.

Ross

 

I am hoping that eventually there will be a backlash against the apartment barges, especially when four or five of them with a total of 15,000 or 20,000 passengers stop in a port that cannot comfortably accommodate these sheer numbers. Nassau, Cayman Islands and others will begin to place restrictions. I can't imagine the lengthy embarkations and disembarkations, and the inconveniences of long lines to the buffets. Cruise lines will then begin to realize that a preference for smaller ships exists. I foresee that within 15 years the apartment barges will go the way of the Great Eastern. Dare we hope?

 

Donald D'maniac.

[Druke I]

It certainly would be nice if they would build something smaller for the cruise lines.

Aida, a German subsidiary of Carnival, has some 68,500 and 71,000GRT ships under construction, but they carry a higher passenger load than the US market wants.

It will be interesting to see how Oceania's new ships, at 65,000GRT turn out.

[dougnewmanatsea]

I think there is a definite preference for smaller ships among a lot of experienced cruisers, but none of us on this thread are remotely in the target market of Carnival, Royal Caribbean, etc. They're interested in people who would probably hate the ships we like!

Barring some unforeseen catastrophe, big ships are not going to go away, but aside from Royal Caribbean's 'Genesis', we will probably see things level off in the 120,000-150,000 GT range. This is te size of most of the mass-market cruise ships on order.

But there are plenty of companies still building mid-sized ships. Aside from Oceania's upcoming ships, we should soon see orders from Regent and Saga for mid-sized ships... About 45,000 GT and 700 berths for Regent and 45,000 GT and 800 berths for Saga.

[franu]

Ross, Thank you for your warm welcome to this thread. I hope that you will not be the "voice of the future" when talking about small ships

Donald, It would be nice if that were the future. It is beginning to be the same problem in many ports in Europe. One gets off the ship to experience life in far away places but finds that there are now greater chances of meeting your next door neighbor in town. I come to see and understand a new culture and turn the corner only to see McDonald's.

Michael, At first Oceania seemed to be an answer but once I spoke to people who had experienced it, I found that it would not do for me. I really like having the same people at my dinner table so that we don't have to go through the the introduction stage every night. I like my waiter to know that I drink my coffee when it is cool so that they can bring it earlier and that I prefer a salad at dinnertime to start.

Oceania also does not do formal nights which I enjoy so much. I hardly get the opportunity to get into my finery at home and look forward to doing it on the ship.

I actually prefer a ship that has NO balconies. I may be a dinosaur but I am not alone. I will not give up.
Fran

[Druke I]

Although Oceania's dining room is open seating, it is possible (most nights) to sit at the same table, with same waitstaff and tablemates.

Just go early, tell the maitre 'd, and you will be accommodated, if possible.

We ate at one server's station perhaps 20 out of the 25 nights we were on Nautica, Istanbul to Singapore, Nov 06.

As far as balconies is concerned, I'm not of the mind that says you must have a balcony, and that once you have one, you can never go back. We have had a balcony on 6 out of 40 or so cruises, so you can see that they are not particularly high on our list of priorities.

I don't mind forgoing the formal nights - Oceania's dress code greatly simplifies packing. I do have a tuxedo (and a white dinner jacket also) for those occasions when it is called for.

[Kapricorn]

Michael, I had balconies on 8 out of my 33 cruises so far. I find that I spend more time on the open decks of the ship than on my balcony; therefore, I usually book oceanview cabins. Balconies are useful if I am traveling with companions who are smokers.

It is fun to dress up for formal evenings on ships, but it is a problem for me because of airline luggage weight restrictions. I usually purchase a bottle of alcohol from the ship's duty-free shop, which I then must wrap securely and place in my suitcase because of the airline restrictions on carrying liquids in carry-on bags. The bottle can weigh 6 pounds, so when I plan my cruise wardrobe for packing, I must factor in that additional weight. I would have no objection to Smart Casual every evening (no shorts, t-shirts, sandals and baseball caps). I like to walk on the open decks after dinner to work off the 5-course meal, but the Mexican or Caribbean heat is stultifying if I am formally dressed in a tie and jacket.

I also prefer to be seated at the same table every evening, as the servers would know my dining preferences, and I wouldn't need to go through a round of introductions with new companions on a nightly basis.

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

First of all, welcome Franu to this thread which is beginning to approach the length of "War and Peace". I admire your perseverance!!

The small cruise ship is not dead, just reincarnated in the upper end cruise lines, although, over the years they have increased their passenger capacity. Still, if one is willing to spend the $$$$'s, (whether US or CAN) you can still have the small ship experience.

The issue of formality on ships is one about which I'm ambivalent. I definitley don't like dressing up when the person next to me is without a tie and later in the evening is back in their 501's! I think that formal dress has become an affectation that we can do without if it is not "uniformly" enforced by the lines. (Doug did a very nice review on CruiseCritic of the suggested attire on the cruise lines.)

On the other hand, at least for us guys, the more formal nights we have the less we have to pack. Unlike the ladies, there is no problem for us repeating the same tux night after night. Clean shirts are easy to deal with.

Verandahs are, unfortunately, here to stay. The new cruisers want, even demand them. I've had cabins with them and without them and frankly, would rather have the extra space incorporated into the interior of the cabin. But "My Space" is what the majority want and so they will have it. End of discussion. I think it was John Maxtone Graham who first pointed the antisocial nature of verandahs. They take away promenade space which was previously available for socializing with the other passengers and that experience was always a major part of shipboard life.

These are the random observations of someone who has been traveling by ship for 47 years. I know that I'm an anachronism, but when I sit in a deck chair, book in hand, and look out at the horizon, nothing at that moment has changed!

[Kapricorn]

[quote name='Conte Di Savoia']I think it was John Maxtone Graham who first pointed the antisocial nature of verandahs. They take away promenade space which was previously available for socializing with the other passengers and that experience was always a major part of shipboard life.
[/quote]

I also give a hearty welcome to Franu ... WELCOME!!!

Conte, I was on the [I]Rotterdam[/I] during October 1989 on her 17-day Panama Canal cruise from Vancouver to Miami. I fondly recall her promenade deck. After the first few days, passengers on their lounge chairs smiled and nodded in acknowledgment as I passed them during my strolls, and vice versa. It was a great way to socialize, now lost on these apartment barges. Oh, well! We were lucky to have experienced what cruising was really like back then.

Isn't it a paradox that smaller ships are more expensive to travel on, but some of them no longer have Formal evenings? The mass-market cruise lines still schedule Formal evenings even if the majority of their passengers disregard it.

Donald D'maniac.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

WOW!!! I knew I would get a response going on the big ship/little ship dilemma.

Fran, I admire your grit and love of tradition. I would love it if some of the old ships were still in service. As Donald says...It is a marvelous experience to be able to wake up and have 300 fellow passengers saying "Good Morning" to you. Ahhhhh...I remember those days so well. There was a sense of cordiality and camaraderie that you will never find on the mega barges. I also agree with you regarding formal wear and assigned seating. I would always want it that way. Traditions are such a nice touch when at sea. We live in a world of change...it is nice to experience some things in the traditional sense...these things have already been perfected why change them? When the movie TITANIC came out...there was actually talk of remaking a replica of the TITANIC. I thought the idea had some merit...if they could only recreate a classic ship...all First Class of course...hmmm...maybe Steerage could be thrown in with some actors...LOL.

Ross

[Saga Ruby]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]I was gobsmacked to note your patient perusal of these ever-so-golden pages. By now, I’ve forgotten whether the butler did it. My sympathy to you on the loss of [I]Marco Polo[/I] - I will always regret not sailing on that lovely ship. My timing was really off on that one. I agree that the staff "makes" the ship and nobody does it better than small ships.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]I smiled at your comment about a McDonald’s on every tourist corner. Many years ago as I was bashing around London and using the Tube, every other step of the staircase from the underground to street level was marked "Burger King." The mere idea of eating at these franchise places always inspired me to enjoy a local café. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]Pondering some of the new postings - I have no interest in balconies on ships. At a condo in Maui, we had wonderfully large lanais, no air conditioning and none needed with the generous ocean breezes. However, some guests would sit on their lanais and chat long into the "madrugada" as we say in Spanish - pre-dawn. Their voices would roll around inside the architectural design of the concrete "box" and everyone could hear them. Then, of course, there is the issue of smoke drifting from another balcony into one’s personal space. I agree with Conte and JM-G that, on ships, the balconies consume living space better suited for other social purposes. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]About new ships, small ships - there are certain basic financial considerations for small ships. They are in demand yet by definition they have to be expensive to pay their own way upon the seven seas. As we know, the current mass market is catering to demand by a huge wave of newbies with various wants and wishes. Apartment barges devote much of their considerable space to entertainment of their passengers. Evidently newbie cruisers need constant external stimulation provided to them rather than the simple enjoyment of being at sea in a deck chair with a good book as the ship sails to an exotic locale.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]I don’t agree with Ross that small ships will eventually disappear over the horizon. In my opinion, an identifiable percentage of the "barge" crowd will become interested in small ships and the market will respond. Those cruisers would choose to sail less often and pay more, while enjoying the small-ship experience. Let’s face it - we are running out of "mature" small ships so the small-ship market will exist and prosper as newbuilds come online. Sorry to step on toes, Donald, but if you ever see me wearing a chef’s hat at table, you’ll know I’ve been taken off to the funny farm. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]As readers of this thread know, I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in Far North - Svalbard which is close to the North Pole, visits to Greenland, Iceland. I’ve covered that part of the world thoroughly and the only other place left is Antarctica. In watching the popularity of that area increase in the cruising world, one wonders about the "green" effect of ships that sink in that pristine area and ships that crunch an iceberg. When should we expect the first golden arches to soar over a colony of Gentoo penguins?[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Verdana]Ruby[/FONT][/SIZE]

[franu]

Happy New Year to all. I will not believe that all of the ships will ever be apartment barges. There will always be a market for smaller ships and therefore they will always be the ships for that market but as Donald said, they will most probably be priced in the upper stratosphere.

A question arises. When sailing on the luxury lines are the pax friendly? Are you judged by what your social status is? I guess that I feel a little nervous about trying it. I am an ordinary person who didn't grow up with a silver spoon and I don't feel comfortable with airs. Growing up in NYC I saw the ocean liners very often and remember feeling that they were not for me. It wasn't until my honeymoon that I ever boarded a ship. It was the Furness-Bermuda Lines, Ocean Monarch. I think that my mouth was hanging open all of the time on that trip. I am so pleased that I have been to Antarctica prior to the golden arches.

If I choose to sail less frequently in order to sail on the ship of my choice, this is my decision. If I select an inside cabin, so be it. What I am looking for is a feeling of comfort with my fellow pax and the crew. I am presently looking at Saga which was recommended to me by a British friend who thinks that the Spirit of Adventure might be a good fit.

Share with me, please, your favourite ports of call. Perhaps one that was a surprise to you or where you had something unexpected happen.

My New Year's resolution is to find my sense of humour again and use it often.
Fran

[Druke I]

Well, for starters, I felt that Crystal cruises was a little too "class conscious".
I was particularly unimpressed by the mid-managment supervisors who were overly impressed with their positions. The passengers ran from quite friendly to very stuffy. We were on Crystal twice, and I doubt that we will sail with them again.

Oceania on the other hand does not describe itself as "luxury", but "premium". On our two sailings with them, we found both passengers and crew to be quite friendly. We like Oceania, and have two more cruises booked with them.

Opinions of course are very subjective.

[Druke I]

Favorite ports of call is another very subjective thing.

In the Baltic, I was very taken with Tallin, Estonia and Gdansk, Poland. Everyone raves about St. Petersburg - I've been twice, and I'm not wild about it.

In the Orient, my two favorite ports are probably Shanghai China and Kobe Japan. I also like Nagasaki Japan, Hong Kong China, and found Vladivostock Siberia very interesting. I did not care much for Pusan Korea.

In the South Pacific, I found Rabaul, New Britain, with its erupting volcanoes and WW2 memorials very interesting.

Any port in New Zealand I like, and Sydney Australia is truly a world class city.

In South America, Rio de Janiero has a beautiful setting.

[seabourndt]

about if saga do shares anymore, sure i read in their previous brochures about sharing cabin as its just so expensive for a single. was looking at a segment of 2009 world cruise.
dave

[dougnewmanatsea]

[B]Fran[/B] - Welcome aboard!

I am glad to hear that you are contemplating what to do once MARCO POLO is no longer sailing under the Orient flag.

I am not sure SPIRIT OF ADVENTURE would be the best fit as that is an open-seating ship. The 'traditional' Saga ships might be more to your liking, with assigned seating and a more formal, traditional atmosphere.

Of course there is DISCOVERY, which is in many ways the direct successor of MARCO POLO. Gerry Herrod was the original owner of Discovery World Cruises, before selling it to the once-unrelated Voyages of Discovery (who originally chartered the ship seasonally).

You might also look at Fred. Olsen. Again, ships the 'right size' and with assigned seating and a formal, traditional atmosphere.

You could even take a look at HAL's PRINSENDAM. I like HAL a lot, and she's the right size, and HAL still offers assigned seating (on HAL you can choose assigned or open seating).

If you really want formal you might even look at Peter Deilmann's DEUTSCHLAND, a ship that is raved about by everyone I know that's been aboard. That of course only is if you don't mind being part of a minority language group, unless of course you speak German, in which case there is a whole universe of ships that fit the bill. (Only DEUTSCHLAND is fully bilingual, though.)

[Saga Ruby]

Fran, backing up to your comment about favorite ports - my daughter-in-law asked me the same question over the holidays. I stopped dead in my tracks and let my little grey cells race. Short answer - it depends on what you like.

I asked my DIL what she was looking for - hot, cold, cosmopolitan, exotic, historical, busy, tranquil. As you know from reading this thread, some of us seek history, some seek a ship experience, some seek a climate change. In my case, obviously I enjoy small ships with a certain level of service but also exotic locales. What are your wants and wishes?

About being welcomed onboard - as a person who has traveled alone for decades, I can honestly say that I've been warmly welcomed by passengers and staff. If Crystal or some of the luxury lines are snobbish, I wouldn't know. In 100% of my experiences, I find that I "get nice back." If a person can't even nod or be civil, why would I want to spend time with that grouch? There's always someone else to talk to. In the past decade at sea, I find few "keeping up with the Joneses" comparisons, give or take some of the penthouse crowd. And I do not equate financial standing with "good" people. After all, the true test of class is the way you treat someone who cannot possibly do you any good.

I would encourage a modicum of flexibility. I too like assigned tables but we know that Oceania is open seating and I wanted to sail on Nautica so off I went. If one is sailing as a couple, it would be doable to have the same table or sit in the same area most nights, but as a solo passenger, that was not possible for me. Whatever the situation, I make the best choices I can based on research then just go with it, whether ships or ports. For me, it always works out.

Ruby