Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Druke I]

There are Azipods and there are azimuthing propulsion pods. Former is a trademark, latter a generic name for a type of propulsion unit.

 

If memory serves correctly, the pods produced by Rolls Royce are the ones that are having the problems with the thrust bearings.

 

I don't recall who has the trademark on "Azipods".

[Druke I]

On reflection, I think Rolls Royce calls their pods Mermaid.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

AHHHHH CONTE!!!

 

I love those CGT menus!!! My collection dates back to the original NORMANDIE...c1885. French Line menus are works of art...outside as well as inside. The grand menus of the First Class were some of the most incredible menus ever to sail the 7 seas. I really loved some of the special menus from the Rio cruises onboard NORMANDIE 1937...I believe. They were even bigger than normal. Passengers did not worry about cholesterol and fat etc. They dined on some of the greatest food ever served at sea.

 

You are certainly right about the menus being shortened for today's cruise pax. I remember that the luncheon items on the AMERIKANIS were numbered (so the waiters could understand) and it was not uncommon for a luncheon menu to exceed 100 items. Luncheon on the Italian ships always featured the normal 9 or 10 courses as well as at least 2 or 3 outstanding Italian specialty dishes each day...simply fantastic. I guess fine dining took the place of waterslides, deck games and fancy leg contests...LOL.

 

Ross

[Kapricorn]

Conte and Ross, did you amass most of your ocean liner memorabilia, such as menus and passenger lists, from eBay? I noticed that bidding has been heavy on the late 19th Century stuff in that site. The elaborate artwork on some of the passenger lists are fantastic. Lots of governesses, maids, nurses and manservants accompanied First Class passengers.

 

Male passengers probably did not worry about cholesterol and fat in these days, but lady passengers in their whalebone corsets and 17-inch waists probably could only nibble during the daily 10-course gastronomic feasts.

 

Donald.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI DONALD!

 

YES...Ebay is a good source for the constant collector. I started collecting when I made my first Atlantic crossing on "the old" QUEEN ELIZABETH in 1965. I have rummaged thru flea markets and marine shops, book stores, antique shops, etc. and I have bought on Ebay. I have something from just about every major line from the early 1900's and onwards as well as an outstanding book collection. I can sit for hours and pour over my memorabilia when the mood strikes me and I find it to be a great comfort in the changing and dangerous world we live in. I also, like Conte Di Savoia, kept everything I could from my past crossings and cruises...at least 22 to date. I also have friends (thanks Ruby...LOL!!!) who have saved memorabilia for me from their cruises. I started asking friends and relatives back in the 1960's for memorabilia. My collection now stands at about 6 very large plastic storage containers...something my wife keeps complaining about...LOL.

 

Ross

[Conte Di Savoia]

Donald

The vast majority of my memorabilia collection is what I retained from my trips onboard the ships and brochures which were sent to me over the years. I have made purchases on eBay and antique shows but I try to be selective. I have plenty of "stuff" around the house and always ask myself "Do I really need this?" Often the answer is "no." That said, I am partial to old ship brochures, especially those from the 1930's. I have some great ones from Rex and Conte Di Savoia. Aside from their association with ocean liners, they are often works of art on their own. Nothing these days compares to them.

I also like to collect books about ships. Some of these have appreciated quite a bit in value since I purchased them. Two of my favorites are special presentations books of Michelangelo and Raffaello published by the Italian Line and the shipyards which built these beautiful vessels, which along with QE2, were the last of the so-called "ships of state". If you click here and here you can see some of the pictures which I have posted at another site.

[franu]

Although I remember very well the ships lined up at the piers along the west side of Manhattan, cruising or any trans anything was not something I did until my honeymoon. I watched ships depart and arrive and I longed for a chance to go somewhere on the sea..

 

I know that I missed out on my dream sailing. It was to go on the SS.France. But alas, I have been very fortunate to be able to cruise later visiting many places I had just dreamed about.

 

Many of you talk about things that you have from the beautiful era of luxury sailings. I have found my home away from home;the M/V Marco Polo. As it will be going elsewhere and will no longer sail for Orient Lines do you think that it would be a good idea to collect things with the Orient Logo and Marco Polo too? What are you suggesting? I will be on the final cruise in March.

Fran

[Saga Ruby]

Many of you talk about things that you have from the beautiful era of luxury sailings. I have found my home away from home;the M/V Marco Polo. As it will be going elsewhere and will no longer sail for Orient Lines do you think that it would be a good idea to collect things with the Orient Logo and Marco Polo too? What are you suggesting? I will be on the final cruise in March. Fran

 

Fran, my cruise on Saga Rose in August was solely to enjoy the ship before she decommissions in 2010. I figured there would be longer and longer waiting lists to sail on this classic ship as her time grows nigh. I do know that the waiting list for her final voyage filled up early last year.

 

I noticed on Saga Rose that most logos were generic, like the dining room cover said "Menu" instead of "Saga Rose Menu" and the South Cape Bar menus were also generic. I kept my baggage tags that say "Outbound Saga Rose" and my plastic room card. I was presented with a full set of menus and have the Programmes, but that's about it. No beautiful artwork, no menu covers.

 

I can imagine that, on Marco Polo, there will be souvenir hunters so you might want to step in time if you want a ship's souvenir. I have no idea how Orient Lines will control - if at all - the ship's inventory with "Marco Polo" written on it. Let's face it - the final cruises will be a memento hunter's dream.

 

I subscribe to the theory that, if you like it, anything has collectible value. As far as souvenirs to bring home, perhaps others on this thread would have better ideas than I.

 

One question to everyone - do bar glasses have ship's logos etched on them nowadays? I have two mixed-drink glasses with RVL's sea eagle on them which were presented to a certain level of returning passengers.

 

Ruby

[Conte Di Savoia]

Any item with a logo is collectible according to Peter Boyd-Smith, the owner of Cobwebs in Southampton, England. It could be matches or even the wrapper from your pillow chocolate (please eat the candy first). Sadly, the lines know this very well and it's difficult to find "logoized" china and crystal, although, the last time I was on HAL, they did have logo dishes in the DR. Cocktail glasses are now open stock and generic. I have a relative who has given me logo glasses which she took from my first Bon Voyage party in 1961. I guess that makes me an accomplice after the fact, but where would I return them?? My partner thinks that this relative may be responsible for the demise of the Italian Line!!

[CGTNORMANDIE]

COLLECTIBLES: Anything you like...if it stimulates your memories then you can collect it...just don't expect it to appreciated in value.

 

Fran, go ahead and collect all you want from the Marco Polo. Just remember...you are collecting for yourself and your own appreciation. If the items go up in value in future years...so much the better.

 

I never collected with the idea that my collection would be worth more money as time goes by. I collected because I really appreciate the art and effort that went into the great liners...the memories are priceless!!!

 

Ross

[Kapricorn]

YES...Ebay is a good source for the constant collector ... I have rummaged thru flea markets and marine shops, book stores, antique shops, etc. and I have bought on Ebay.

Ross

 

Donald

I have made purchases on eBay and antique shows but I try to be selective. I have plenty of "stuff" around the house and always ask myself "Do I really need this?" Often the answer is "no."

 

I also prowl eBay, but, like Conte, I often restrain myself and say "no." I did get Empress of Canada deck plans, as I wanted to find out the number of the cabin that my mother and I used in 1964 (it was an outside cabin #185, right at the stern). I also got deck plans for Michelangelo/Raffello, only because I was curious as to the layout of the cabins on the two windowless decks. In my opinion, Italian Line blundered with all-inside cabins on these decks. Otherwise, these two ships were beautiful, as shown in the photographs to which you linked (thank you very much).

 

When I was a lad, I asked Italian Line for, and received, two brochures about Leonardo da Vinci (see attachments). The third photograph was bought at the New York dock where a vender was selling them to people seeing others off on that liner (my mother and I were there in 1962).

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Donald

Thanks for the great pictures!! (Heavy sigh!)

You're absolutely right about the decision to have windowless cabins. The other great blunder which sealed the fate of these two ships, was to carry on the tradition of three classes. By the time the ships were planned it was clear that transatlantic service was doomed yet the old bureaucrats who ran the line were blind to this fact. When the ships were finally sent into off season cruising, the Tourist Class cabins and public rooms were empty, totally unmarketable. Their fate was sealed.

[Saga Ruby]

The other great blunder which sealed the fate of these two ships, was to carry on the tradition of three classes. By the time the ships were planned it was clear that transatlantic service was doomed yet the old bureaucrats who ran the line were blind to this fact. When the ships were finally sent into off season cruising, the Tourist Class cabins and public rooms were empty, totally unmarketable. Their fate was sealed.

 

I still am focused on the cessation of menu artwork onboard ships. I would like to see menu artwork done for the longer cruises - 25 days to "world." As a sales point, it would be a light-hearted, grand gesture on the part of a cruise line which had the smarts to market a refreshing, meaningful concept to their clients.

 

Imagine the frenzy on eBay if one cruise line did one world cruise with menu artwork. The advertising slogan for that one cruise would be "something old is new again." The concept would reverberate amongst old and new cruisers. The other cruise lines might be compelled to follow suit just to ameliorate the impact of that one brilliant advertising move for that one cruise line.

 

Ruby

[seabourndt]

yes i was in new york to see the 3 queens arrive and depart, booked on the qe2 from soton unfortunatly i had to cancel as i was quite ill. was i dissapointed!! i flew to new york to make up for that. so saga rose is decomishioning in 2010! interesting. doing the ruby this year looking forward to that. in the same cabin as i had on the coronia. saw the saga sisters leave soton too.

dave

[Kapricorn]

When the ships were finally sent into off season cruising, the Tourist Class cabins and public rooms were empty, totally unmarketable. Their fate was sealed.

 

You're right ... I took a look at the layouts of the Tourist Class cabins on the deck plan, and most of these are too small to be of practical use for cruisers. In addition, they were arranged in confusing mazes. It's interesting, though, to see their various shapes, as contrasted with the cookie-cutter layouts on current cruise ships.

Donald.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

[quote name='Kapricorn'][COLOR=black]You're right ... I took a look at the layouts of the Tourist Class cabins on the deck plan, and most of these are too small to be of practical use for cruisers. In addition, they were arranged in confusing mazes. It's interesting, though, to see their various shapes, as contrasted with the cookie-cutter layouts on current cruise ships.[/COLOR] Donald.[/quote]

This reminded me of the time my wife got lost on the LEONARDO DAVINCI. YES...she actually got lost trying to find her way back to our room. When the LD cruised they opened up all the class partitions so you could walk between all 3 classes of cabins...and this made things extremely confusing. My wife spent an hour roaming the lower decks before coming topside to get me...LOL. It took her about 3 days before she could find her way around the ship...LOL.

Ross

[Conte Di Savoia]

That is funny. New cruise ships are more logically laid out than in "the old days". The passengers now are used to having a few major stairwells and elevators to deal with. Old ships had stairs which suddenly appeared behind doors and led up or down a few decks and then seemed to end blindly. It was great fun as kids to explore these areas which always seemed a mystery to the older passengers.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

It was really funny. We got onboard the LD and found our outside cabin to be very small...so I went to the Purser and he was wonderful. He led me from cabin to cabin but finally we took a cabin on a lower deck, inside, that was big enough for 4 pax...with a large bathroom. The cabin was ideal for us...and talk about private...there was nobody else staying in our section...we had the steward all to ourselves and he was delighted...LOL. The only problem was...finding our way down to our cabin. I can remember walking all over the first few days until I got it right. The colors of the passageways would change from green to salmon pink to grey...LOL.

Ross

[Druke I]

I can relate to Conte's comment re hidden stairs, etc.

When I was younger (and more adventurous), I explored most of Oriana, including getting down to "crew only" sections.

New ships do have some hidden stairways (usually crew only), and some hidden elevators dedicated to hotel and food service (but larger than traditional dumbwaiters), getting food from the bowels of the ship or the kitchen to the upper Lido areas, and getting linens etc from the laundries to the passenger decks.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

[B]GOOD NEWS FOR SMALL SHIP LOVERS!!!
[/B]
HAL just announced a $20 million refit for the PRINSENDAM. New bathrooms in refurbished cabins and refurbished public rooms will be part of the face lift. PRINSENDAM is still a beautiful ship so this should come as good news to most of you.

Ross

[franu]

[QUOTE][B]GOOD NEWS FOR SMALL SHIP LOVERS!!!

[/B]HAL just announced a $20 million refit for the PRINSENDAM. New bathrooms in refurbished cabins and refurbished public rooms will be part of the face lift. PRINSENDAM is still a beautiful ship so this should come as good news to most of you.

Ross[/QUOTE]

That is great news. Thank you for making my adrenaline soar. Will this be a cosmetic refit or will they start messing around with the size of this ship too? When is this to occur? I was interested in the Balmoral until I found that they are stretching it and will have an additional 290 pax. This brings the total to 1340 pax which is above my personal limit.

I know that you have sources of information to which you subscribe but I cannot find any info regarding this refit. I feel a great sense of anticipation and am ready to look into where and when they will go
Fran

[Druke I]

Have you ever checked out [url]www.ssmaritime.com?[/url]

Not my favorite website, but they do have a photo essay featuring Marco Polo, and you have mentioned your interest in that ship.

And reference Balmoral: NCL ruined (in my opinion) that ship, Norwegian Crown, when they plated over the indoor pool down in the bowels, removed the cinema, and added passenger cabins. She was a beauty while flagship Crown Odyssey of the late lamented Royal Cruise Line.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Apparently the refurbishment has been completed. I found [url=http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/AQW03416012008-1.htm]this article on CNN Money[/url].

[franu]

[QUOTE]Have you ever checked out [URL="http://www.ssmaritime.com/?"]www.ssmaritime.com?[/URL]

Not my favorite website, but they do have a photo essay featuring Marco Polo, and you have mentioned your interest in that ship.

And reference Balmoral: NCL ruined (in my opinion) that ship, Norwegian Crown, when they plated over the indoor pool down in the bowels, removed the cinema, and added passenger cabins. She was a beauty while flagship Crown Odyssey of the late lamented Royal Cruise Line.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your kind thoughts however the Marco Polo that is my love is the M/V Marco Polo presently sailing for Orient Lines. This article seems to be about a ship which is presently a gambling ship in Asia.

The Crown Odyssey was for a time sailing for Orient Lines with a very loyal following. NCL took it back, made the changes and changed the name again. I understand that it was just terrible what they had done and then Fred Olsen has done even more. What a waste.
Fran

[CGTNORMANDIE]

THANKS CONTE!

I guess the work is now completed...sounds nice. The interior will be totally spiffed up Fran. They are not stretching the ship...thank Heavens!!! The PRINSENDAM is a one of a kind type of ship...and hopefully it will stay that way.

Ross