Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[CGTNORMANDIE]

[quote name='Saga Ruby']
I'm kicking around the Prinsendam itinerary for 16 days out of Rome to Ukraine for 2009. The only negative is yet another 24-30hr. day in transport to Rome. If only there were a Transporter Room. Ruby[/quote]

BEAM ME UP RUBY!!! Wouldn't that be great??? Don't you hate flying...it has to be the worst aspect of cruising...lol. Glad to hear you are considering the PRINSENDAM...everyone I know seems to like it. I got to see her sail past us in New York harbor last May and she looked great.

Ross

[Kapricorn]

I'm sure that within 20 years there will be a revolutionary new air transport system, maybe a Boeing 979 or Ilyushin 640, which might take passengers from Dallas to Rome in 3 hours.

I'm not looking forward to the homeward flight from San Juan to Vancouver via Dallas on March 17 after my cruise. Departure at 11:20am local time and arrival at Vancouver 7:25pm local time. With the four-hour time difference, that means 12 hours and 5 minutes in transit, not including about 3 hours' waiting time in the San Juan airport prior to departure. For that reason, I booked in First Class for the return trip, just to be reasonably comfortable.

Donald.

[franu]

My longest trip by airplane including waiting time was 36 hours from Cairo to Toronto. It should have been via Tel Aviv but it also required a change of planes in Newark because of circumstances. I probably could have been at least half way around the world in that time. Needless to say I didn't fly again for a while after that.

Now I must be a glutton for punishment because I get my air from the cruise line. Most of the time it works for me but I would prefer to be beamed up, Scotty
Fran

[Druke I]

Yes indeed, those long flights can be a pistol!

Not having unlimited funds which would allow me to take World Cruises, I bite the bullet and fly to wherever to catch the ship.

I do try to avoid Paris' Chas DeGaulle Airport, which to my mind is the worst laid out airport around. The collapsed terminal certainly does make it difficult to get to your connecting flight at times.

[Druke I]

For you Prinsendam fans, and Prinsendam wannabes, there is a new thread on the HAL board with a phototour of the recently refurbished ship. She looks pretty spiffy. We almost booked her for the Baltic in 2005, but got a two for one on Oceania's Regatta, and could not pass up the good price. Regatta and Prinsendam were the only two ships we considered for that trip, as we wanted a ship that transited the Kiel Canal - a highlight of the trip!

I've had little luck posting thread connections, so am just referring you there.

[Saga Ruby]

After checking out reviews about Prinsendam and reading your comments, I put down a deposit on her 16-day cruise in May 2009 - "Greece and The Black Sea Adventure." There is a town in Turkey - Trabzon - which interests me as does Sevastopol Ukraine. Does anyone have personal information on either of these two ports?

 

HAL says I am in their database as a Mariner member. Considering my one HAL cruise was over 20 years ago, I’m impressed. It turns out that airline employees and a "mother of" can get a further discount making this cruise the least expensive I’ve done in years.

 

I chose any-time dining. Oceania’s policy of open dining proved to suit me just fine. After all these years of being assigned a time for dinner, it’s nice to have options.

 

I'm a bit uneasy about sailing on a "Carnival" ship but we shall see. Research proved to me that the Elegant Explorer is a fine ship unto itself . My Prinsendam cabin is C102 on Upper Promenade with 191 sq. ft. and a fridge with an outside window - big ole window - close to the bow.

 

Since it’s 1.5 years until I sail, I have plenty of time to rest up for the flight from Dallas to La Bella Roma.

 

Ruby

[dougnewmanatsea]

Congratulations Ruby on your new booking!

 

Now you will have in the inside scoop on PRINSENDAM in case Saga buys her ;) .

[Druke I]

Hiya Ruby

 

Congratulations on your booking, and I wouldn't worry about Prinsendam being "a Carnival ship" - remember, she was built for Royal Viking Lines, which was a class act.

[Saga Ruby]

Gee, I am glad that I am not a ship. If I were I would have been sent to Alang by now. Fran

 

I'm still laughing about your note. Ditto for me. It is one month from today that you sail on your final voyage of Marco Polo. A bittersweet time, I'm sure.

 

Do you sail on the new ships? The apartment barges? I'm staying within the boundaries of Saga Cruises, Oceania, and now Prinsendam. It's difficult to fulfill my wants and wishes of small elegant ships with outstanding service. Which ship or cruise line will you consider for your next voyage?

 

Your phrase of "Farewell My Lovely" for Marco Polo was well-put. As I have said before, I'm now sorry to have missed this loverly ship.

 

Ruby

[dougnewmanatsea]

Ruby - You needn't give up on MARCO POLO yet. While she will sadly no longer operate for Orient Lines, the ship sails on. She is becoming the flagship of the well-respected German cruise line Transocean Tours, and she will also operate cruises for the British market.

 

I'm sure she'll be very successful in this role and I look forward to sailing her again, as she is one of my very favorite ships.

[franu]

Ruby,

Yes! It is less than a month now until I leave for my cruise. I will be "flying down to Rio" with a 4 hour stopover in Miami. With just a little 5 day trip to Wisconsin to be a god grandma in a week and a half. Playing grandma and some "retail therapy" is what will keep me until the day that I leave.

 

This cruise will be bittersweet for me and a lot of the others. Doug mentioned that it will be sailing for Transocean. Although they will are a "well-respected German cruise line" it will not work for me for a number of reasons. The most important is the fact that the crew that I have come to love will not be there. I understand that not one person is being kept on. For me it would be like visiting a friend's home only to find that they have moved. It is not necessarily the walls that make me feel comfortable.

 

I will not go on an apartment barge. They look just like the apartment building where I live. I find it disconcerting. I believe that even 50,000grt is to much but I must be realistic. I think that I will take a sabbatical from cruising so that I will be able to look at cruising without biases.

 

Your phrase of "Farewell My Lovely" for Marco Polo was well-put. As I have said before, I'm now sorry to have missed this loverly ship.

Actually I don't have any idea where that came from. I had nothing to do with it. Perhaps it is from a secret admirer?

Fran

[dougnewmanatsea]

Fran - I understand your reluctance not to return to MARCO POLO, but as Ruby never sailed in her in the old days, I doubt it would matter much to her that the crew will be different (as long as the new crew is competent).

 

It won't stop me from returning, either, but of course I've spent much less time on her than you have so while I love the current crew, I can't honestly say I have the same (perfectly understandable) attachment to them that you do.

 

I do hope to sail in MARCO POLO again, and even look forward to seeing what has improved and perhaps what has declined.

 

Then again, perhaps I am happy with MARCO POLO's fate simply because at the moment I'm rather preoccupied with QE2's retirement, for she is now destined to be 'stuffed and mounted' as some of us like to say! And yes, I plan to visit her in Dubai, too... But that will really not be the same, seeing as she'll now be a building, not a ship :( .

 

I have more of an emotional connection to QE2 than any other ship, so for me it is really very sad. But all good things must come to an end. Que sera, sera... (All right, I'll stop with the clichés now...!)

[Saga Ruby]

This cruise will be bittersweet for me and a lot of the others. Doug mentioned that it will be sailing for Transocean. Although they will are a "well-respected German cruise line" it will not work for me for a number of reasons. The most important is the fact that the crew that I have come to love will not be there. I understand that not one person is being kept on. Fran

 

I truly believe that the crew and hotel staff are the heart and soul of a ship. I sailed on RVL for over a decade - it was like having an exciting vacation home that took me places. So I sympathize with your thoughts about Transocean - it cannot be the same comfort level of visiting with friends onboard a favoured ship.

 

It is my understanding that the present captain on Prinsendam was with RVL Sun and has evidently stayed on with the ship as she sailed under different flags. I would enjoy visiting with him for just a mo' if possible - I can sing the official Royal Viking sailaway song which should amuse the Master. But I have no interest in joining Marco Polo in her next configuration.

 

How many years have you been sailing on Marco Polo?

 

Ruby

[franu]

I have been sailing the Marco Polo since 2002, however I did not sail again until 2005. In total I have sailed her for 4 months. This last cruise will be 23 days long and therefore my shortest one on this ship. On a longer cruise one can discern the bumps with more ease. I love her in spite of them.

 

I do love the long, port intensive cruises but they need to be ports with history, art, incredible nature or beautiful architecture. The Caribbean is not for me.

 

Doug, I hope that I didn't say anything to sway Ruby from sailing the MP. I am only expressing my thoughts and feelings. I understand that you look at ships with a different and more educated eye. Your knowledge is unbelievable especially with regard to your age. I tend to measure my cruising experiences by my emotions. At this stage in my life that is my choice.

Fran

[dougnewmanatsea]

I have no interest in joining Marco Polo in her next configuration.

If you don't mind my asking... And purely out of curiosity... Why?

 

I can certainly understand why Fran wouldn't want to return, but I'm curious as to what's dissuaded you.

[Saga Ruby]

I can certainly understand why Fran wouldn't want to return, but I'm curious as to what's dissuaded you.

 

So many ships, so little time. Actually, the answer is the reverse of your question - I was not dissuaded, I was persuaded. In 2003, I was chatting onboard Constellation with John Maxtone-Graham who said, "You should come join us on Marco Polo this summer. My son Ian will be with us." Mental tumblers starting falling into place. Ian Maxtone-Graham is a long-time executive producer of The Simpsons, one of my favourite shows. What a cruise that would be!

 

At home, I looked up the itinerary for the J-MG cruise but it was a near duplicate of the one on which I had just sailed, so the idea of that cruise faded away. However, I started keeping an eye on Marco Polo and developed an interest in her as she was obviously a fine ship and crew. Then, over my bow, up popped Saga Cruises with a remarkable itinerary to the North Pole and Norway on Saga Ruby, and the rest is history.

 

Doug and I are oil and water about cruising. For example, Peter Boyd-Smith and I never sail on Greek ships for reasons of safety, Doug has no problem with them. Doug looks at ships from a historical perspective; like Fran, I am more emotional about my cruise choices. Staff and crew can make or break the enjoyment of a voyage for me with the ship being of secondary importance. Luckily, everyone can fulfill their cruise wishes with the variety of ships that sail upon the high seas.

 

I looked up the website of Transocean and it seems to be put in place to compete directly with Fred. Olsen and Saga Cruises. Pound Sterling is the onboard currency which alone is a deal breaker for me. Besides, how would I ever locate the London port of Tilbury?

 

In the "what goes around" category, perhaps Saga Cruises will eventually purchase Marco Polo?

 

Ruby

[dougnewmanatsea]

Doug and I are oil and water about cruising. For example, Peter Boyd-Smith and I never sail on Greek ships for reasons of safety, Doug has no problem with them.

Well... For the newcomers, I think it is worth repeating my opinion on this.

 

The safety record of Greek shipping was, for many years, quite poor. This cannot be denied. The very simple reason for this is that the Greek shipping industry was essentially unregulated. Of course, on paper it was every bit as tightly regulated as any other country, but enforcement was so lax as to be nonexistent. As a friend of mine is fond of saying, you could do anything you wanted as long as you passed envelopes full of drachma to the right officials. Naturally, in that sort of environment, there were a lot of very unscrupulous operators out there. But there were also plenty of upstanding Greeks out there, too, including some of the biggest and most well-respected lines in the world, and I think it would have been unfair to them to dismiss them just because they were Greek.

 

Of course, all of this is really academic now, as the Greeks have done a great deal to clean up their shipping industry, and more importantly, there is hardly a Greek cruise ship left.

 

In the "what goes around" category, perhaps Saga Cruises will eventually purchase Marco Polo?

I doubt it - she was for sale for quite some time and I'm sure if Saga wanted her, it would have bought her.

 

Anyhow, while a lovely ship, she is not really to the same standard as ROSE or RUBY. She does have one clear advantage in my mind and that is much better open deck space. The Sagas have decent open deck space, but in the 1980s Cunard added a lot of additional accommodation in what was formerly open deck space and it does suffer from that.

 

But inside, I have to give the edge to the Sagas. For one thing, they have things MARCO lacks, notably a ballroom (MARCO has a show lounge instead - good for evening entertainment but awful as a lounge), a cinema, a forward observation lounge, and an indoor pool. And the public rooms are, well, just nicer for the most part - or at least in the case of the original ones on the Sagas, which means everything except the Lido Restaurant and Preview/Club Polaris (those were added in the same bad 1980s Cunard refit that screwed up the deck space). Higher ceilings, bigger windows, etc. And the dining room on the Sagas can seat everyone at once, whereas on MARCO you get two seatings for dinner. (They're nicer rooms, too.)

 

Cabin-wise, I've got to give it to the Sagas again. The standard cabins on MARCO are roughly the size of the ones on RUBY, and way smaller than ROSE's, but they're not as nicely decorated, have smaller, plainer bathrooms, generally have less storage space, and a lot more of them are inside. And there are very few deluxe cabins and suites, unlike the Sagas, which have loads of them. Those are very nice on MARCO, but none have balconies, and none can match the big suites on RUBY, though ROSE has nothing like those either.

 

After saying all this I am afraid it makes it sound like MARCO POLO is a poor ship and that is very far from the truth - she is an excellent ship, but she just isn't in the same class as the Saga ships.

[Druke I]

Well, I for one had three (3) great cruises on Greek registered/crewed ships.

 

The late great Royal Cruise Line, with Golden Odyssey and Crown Odyssey (twice) were fine ships, with attentive crews. I did not sail on their 3rd ship, Royal Odyssey.

 

Perhaps Royal Cruise Line was not a typical Greek line, I don't know.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Perhaps Royal Cruise Line was not a typical Greek line, I don't know.

Given the variety of Greek cruise ships from the 1960s to 1990s, I think it would be difficult to say what was 'typical'. But if there was such a thing, I suppose Royal Cruise Line was not it. It was certainly very different from the stereotypical Greek cruise line, anyway.

 

But then Pericles Panagopulos, the founder of Royal Cruise Line, was not your stereotypical Greek shipowner. He sold out to Kloster Cruise (NCL) after building CROWN ODYSSEY as he felt the future of cruising was in huge conglomerates.

 

He went on to create Superfast Ferries, which revolutionized the ferry market in the Adriatic between Greece and Italy. His Attica Group also owns Blue Star Ferries, a domestic ferry operator in Greece.

[Saga Ruby]

After the sinking of this ship off the coast of Santorini last April, a spokesman with Louis Cruise Lines indicated it was human error. The CNN report also stated that LCL was a "Cypriot-based" cruise line. As you know, Cyprus is a divided country of Greeks and Turks with hundreds of years of conflict over that island.

 

Who was the actual owner when Sea Diamond went down?

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Speaking of the Sea Diamond and the other cruise ship which sank in the Antarctic, I cannot believe that a minor hole in the hull would cause both to gradually capsize and sink. I was under the impression that ships nowadays are divided into watertight bulkheads. Or are we back to the time of the Titanic?

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

Speaking of the Sea Diamond and the other cruise ship which sank in the Antarctic, I cannot believe that a minor hole in the hull would cause both to gradually capsize and sink. I was under the impression that ships nowadays are divided into watertight bulkheads. Or are we back to the time of the Titanic? Donald.

 

The icebergs and underground volcanoes are getting smarter about hiding? I was quite surprised when Sea Diamond sank - that area around Santorini is well-mapped and well-known to seafaring vessels. That one was a puzzler.

 

Actually, I think that's a good question about hulls and bulkheads. I look forward to hearing an answer.

 

Ruby

[dougnewmanatsea]

Who was the actual owner when Sea Diamond went down?

Louis Cruise Lines is part of Louis plc, a huge Cypriot tourism conglomerate founded in 1935.

 

However, she was owned by its Greek subsidiary, Louis Hellenic Cruises, because ships registered in Cyprus are not permitted into Turkish ports, where she regularly called.

 

Louis has commissioned a hydrographic survey of the area where the ship sank and claims that the Greek chart shows the reef she hit at only 57m from the shore when it is really 131m from the shore. More here.

 

Speaking of the Sea Diamond and the other cruise ship which sank in the Antarctic, I cannot believe that a minor hole in the hull would cause both to gradually capsize and sink. I was under the impression that ships nowadays are divided into watertight bulkheads. Or are we back to the time of the Titanic?

Today's ships are indeed divided into watertight compartments.

 

Investigations into both accidents are ongoing, so it is too early to know what happened.

[Kapricorn]

The Titanic's watertight compartments extended up to one or two decks below her promenade deck. The Mercury's lowest passenger accommodation deck, Continental Deck, is completely open from cabin #4000 at the bow to #4174 at the stern. From #4174 you can look forward all the way to the bow bulkhead in front of #4000. I suppose that there might be partitions here and there inside the side walls that would slam shut in the event of an emergency.

 

I would think that the Sea Diamond, upon striking the rock on her bow and receiving a gash, and being stuck on that rock, would have the inrushing sea contained within her forward watertight compartment. Nothing that I have read indicated that she propelled all the way over the rock so that her entire side from bow to stern was open to the sea. I've heard stories of panic among the crew, and perhaps they failed to shut the watertight doors. I certainly am looking forward to the conclusions of the investigations.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

Sea Diamond’s Greek owners admitted to human error causing the sinking of that ship although mariners have been sailing around the area of Santorini for centuries. One would think that modern technology, sea charts, and human experience would have alerted the "crew of" about the undersea topography.

 

Donald raises a good question - do watertight doors actually stop disasters? Is there a higher percentage of ships and souls saved by this technology than not? Sea water is a devious enemy, using its weight and liquidity to insinuate itself into places where it should have been kept in abeyance.

 

Although I enjoy a cruise as much as anyone, I never assume strict safety regulations are being observed onboard a ship until I attend the lifeboat drill. I want a crew that is sharp and serious about the drills, both for passengers and the independent crew drills. The sinking of Yarmouth Castle back in the 60s cut close to the bone as my family had sailed on her just two years earlier. It was a tragedy of great proportions due to the Greek bridge staff being in the first lifeboat to arrive at the rescue ship.

 

I have heard that some cruise ships call their passengers into the lounge where lifeboat information is verbally dispensed. While recognizing that a disaster might not be so tidy or organized as going to an assigned lifeboat station, I would like to think that serious attention is paid to the drills.

 

I don’t look cute in a life jacket but the drills do remind us that not every cruise is a jolly good time had by all.

 

Ruby