Smoking on Azamara

[gillianrose]

Celebrity told me today a decision is yet to be made on the smoking policies on Quest. Now looking at the itineraries, Journey is covering the shorter cruises in Bermda, but Quest is doing the Europe and Asian cruises. Now smoking policies in the west is one thing..Europe and Asia.. could be difficult to fill their ships in those destinations. I wonder if they are considering that into the equation.. will we see a different policy on Quest?

 

A smoking ban on land is one thing.. one can always go outdoors, and in countries in Europe such as France and Spain the impact was minimal as their climate allows for outdoor smoking whereas in countries such as scotland and ireland, disaster has struck with bars and clubs going totally out of business as the climate does not allow much for outdoor smoking. Now, to restrict smoking on cruise ships in Europe.. IMHO they are taking a HUGE risk. Europeans will not take lightly to the smoking restrictions...question is, will Azamara risk it?

We have had thousands of European visitors cancel trips to UK this last year due to the smoking ban. Its a huge risk to take.

Azamara need to make their mind up and clarify the position with Quest, is she or isnt she?

 

I was assured (a couple of days ago) that Journey and Quest are sister ships and BOTH would have the same restrictive smoking policies. I applaud that thinking, and would be extremely disappointed if Azamara wimps out and permits less restrictive smoking on the Quest just because of the extremely vehement and vocal MINORITY of whiny folks who want to smoke most anywhere they choose, regardless of the consequences to others (many current smokers are considerate and not whiny and are not throwing about FALSE statistics, such as those you have done, i.e. "Thousands of European visitors cancel trips to the UK", blah, blah, blah...)

 

I understand that you are personally frustrated at the change in policy, but consider how frustrating and physically damaging it has been for the vast majority of people who are in fact (in all countries of the world, to the best of my knowledge) NON-SMOKERS for all the years that we have had to tolerate (or not cruise) on ships polluted by cigarette and cigar smoke.

 

I have lived in Europe and I can vouch for the fact that the vast majority of Europeans—especially those who can afford to cruise frequently and would be drawn to boutique ships—are far MORE likely to book cruises with Azamara and Oceania BECAUSE of the restricted smoking policies.

 

Disaster has struck in the UK since the change? Hardly. SANITY has struck.

[mike35]

We're avid Oceania cruisers, and the "O" ships have become our first choice when it comes to planning a cruise. Oceania's 2007 itineraries are, for the most part, completely sold out, and their 2008 cruises are over 65% booked ALREADY! I think RCI's implementation of Azamara as a clone of Oceania is a brilliant strategic move on their part, based on the incredible popularity and load factor of Oceania's ships and itineraries. Now, if they can only match the awesome service that Oceania's staff provides, they too will enjoy comparable booking successes, including many smokers (like many of the smoker friends we've made on Oceania) who forgo their desire to smoke in their rooms/balconies in favor of sailing on on a uniquely wonderful cruise ship.

 

Mike

[cruising with marti]

I was assured (a couple of days ago) that Journey and Quest are sister ships and BOTH would have the same restrictive smoking policies. I applaud that thinking, and would be extremely disappointed if Azamara wimps out and permits less restrictive smoking on the Quest just because of the extremely vehement and vocal MINORITY of whiny folks who want to smoke most anywhere they choose, regardless of the consequences to others (many current smokers are considerate and not whiny and are not throwing about FALSE statistics, such as those you have done, i.e. "Thousands of European visitors cancel trips to the UK", blah, blah, blah...)

 

I understand that you are personally frustrated at the change in policy, but consider how frustrating and physically damaging it has been for the vast majority of people who are in fact (in all countries of the world, to the best of my knowledge) NON-SMOKERS for all the years that we have had to tolerate (or not cruise) on ships polluted by cigarette and cigar smoke.

 

I have lived in Europe and I can vouch for the fact that the vast majority of Europeans—especially those who can afford to cruise frequently and would be drawn to boutique ships—are far MORE likely to book cruises with Azamara and Oceania BECAUSE of the restricted smoking policies.

 

Disaster has struck in the UK since the change? Hardly. SANITY has struck.

 

 

" SANITY has struck" by who's definition???/

 

Phil

[KenC]

....... countries in Europe such as France and Spain the impact was minimal as their climate allows for outdoor smoking whereas in countries such as scotland and ireland, disaster has struck with bars and clubs going totally out of business as the climate does not allow much for outdoor smoking.......

 

This is just not true - after an initial slow down both countries are experiencing an upturn in business ;)

 

Scandinavia is also non smoking and they don't come much colder than that but business carries on.

[Mr. Tucker]

I have lived in Europe and I can vouch for the fact that the vast majority of Europeans—especially those who can afford to cruise frequently and would be drawn to boutique ships—are far MORE likely to book cruises with Azamara and Oceania BECAUSE of the restricted smoking policies.

 

I beg to differ. Smoking is Europe is far more prevalent than it is in the United States. European cigarettes also have a much stronger odour than ours.

 

Whatever happened to the discussion on whether Azamara provided sufficient notice to their customers on this policy. Most of this dialouge would have been avoided if they had simply announced their smoking policy at the same time they announced Journey was about to replace the outdated Zenith. Hard hard would that of been. Poor management decision in my opinion to let this gem of a policy drop at the last moment.

[Blondie007]

This is just not true - after an initial slow down both countries are experiencing an upturn in business ;)

 

Scandinavia is also non smoking and they don't come much colder than that but business carries on.

 

 

Seeing as I personally own two tourism related businesses in scotland, and am member of several licensing comittees..I can assure you my friend, what you are led to believe in England, before the government enforces the ban...well..you shall see...

Pick up a copy of Scotland Licensed Trade News... the evidence speaks for itself.

Scandanavia has a fantastic approach. In Sweden, they have air units which vacuum cigarettes and the smoke, no staff handle cigs, and outside the canopied table area which incidentally is still indoors... there is NO smoke. Many publicans in scotland lost a battle to install such equipement.

Anyway, not here for a debate, but as a voice of reasonable authority on this in scotland, speaking for scotland I can assure you...it has been an absolute disaster!

Quite honestly, after all of this, even if Quest turns out to be smoking, I dont think I want to be on her...being put off more and more by the minute.

[Homosassa]

Hmmm - no smoking in Scotland? Definitely must book a trip to Scotland.:D

[GAV BOY]

Hmmm - no smoking in Scotland? Definitely must book a trip to Scotland.:D

 

Also Wales and Ireland, and on July 1st also in England, Yipppe ! :D

[KAWS]

I am not saying X are wrong..I am however furious that this has not been made clear at the time of booking. We have a lot of plans now to change.. will see what TA says on Tuesday.

 

I have to say I totally agree with you on this one. I'm not a smoker and would welcome designated areas or even a total non-smoking atmosphere. However, they should have made that clear at the time of booking. Probably didn't because they didn't want to "tip" anyone off about upcoming changes, but I think if that's the case, the least they should do is offer to refund all deposits without any penalty for those people that did book before the smoking news became news.

 

Kim

[zacca]

I find it difficult for it to be said the Millenium had smoking everywhere! NO ship has this!! Did they smoke in the dining room, buffet, theatre to mention a few areas? Sorry, don't believe it!! In case you non smokers want to hear this--ALL HOTELS IN DISNEY WENT NON SMOKING INSIDE< BALCONIES AND OUTSIDE AREAS!!! Will that bother me? No. I have other options.

 

OK, fair point, should have clarified this. There was smoking everywhere in outside areas on both sides of the ship,also beside the pool, including cigars! In inside areas where it was permitted, these were areas where you had to pass through, it was like a fog. The smoking policy on board was not adhered to, I think it was because of the large amount of South American passengers on board that particular sailing.

[jetwet1]

You know, I wanted to try Ocieana but their smoking policy ruled them out, then I see Azamara with their R class ships going after the same market and I sat here thinking great..then this...oh well I can of course handle not smoking in a restaurant..but not in my room or on my balcony, sorry but my money will be spent on another line :(

[LHT28]

You know, I wanted to try Ocieana but their smoking policy ruled them out, then I see Azamara with their R class ships going after the same market and I sat here thinking great..then this..

 

Try Regent, they allow smoking

[KenC]

......

Pick up a copy of Scotland Licensed Trade News... the evidence speaks for itself......Anyway, not here for a debate, but as a voice of reasonable authority on this in scotland, speaking for scotland I can assure you...it has been an absolute disaster! .....

 

Well the SLTA would say that - they opposed the ban to begin with.

 

Below is the British Medical Association's view on the economic effects of a restriction on smoking.

 

 

" Behind the smokescreen: the myths and the facts

 

Economics

Myth: A ban on smoking in pubs would have the same impact as similar bans in Europe: thousands of jobs would be lost in the hospitality and brewery industries

 

Fact: A report from the Irish Central Statistics Office revealed that in November 2004 (seven months after the ban was introduced) bar sales were down just 2.8 per cent compared with the previous year. The decrease in the year before was 7.1 per cent. Scare stories about declining hospitality industry sales should be viewed in the context of the long term trend in Irish bar sales.

 

In Norway, the number of pubs, bars and restaurants that went bankrupt declined in the seven month period after the smoking ban was implemented in 2004. In 2003, 386 businesses in the sector went bankrupt and in 2004, this declined to 372, including the closure of 338 restaurants and 34 bars.

 

A report commissioned by the Chief Medical Officer in England revealed that concern about falling profits is unfounded. In other parts of the world where legislation to create smoke-free public places and workplaces has been introduced, profits in the hospitality and leisure industries have risen. Independent economic analyses carried out for the Irish Government and the Scottish Executive drew similar conclusions

 

Myth: The smoking ban in pubs will lead to a fall in cigarette sales and hospitality profits, both of which will cost the Government billions in lost tax revenue

 

Fact: Smoke-free laws do not have a negative impact on hospitality industry profits. As the World Bank has consistently shown, tobacco control policies do not affect Government revenues in the short or medium term. Legislation would lead to a decline in tobacco sales, but the decline would be gradual and could be offset by increases in the duty rate.

 

In the UK, tobacco consumption has declined sharply over the last three decades, but revenue from tobacco taxes has risen. This can be explained by the decline in tobacco consumption being matched with proportionately greater increases in tobacco duty. These increases in tobacco duty have a significant health benefit as high prices are an important factor in reducing tobacco consumption. The ultimate aim of tobacco control policies is to benefit human health, not Government finances. In the long term, the goal is for tobacco consumption to fall to such low levels that tobacco tax would begin to fall.

 

There is clear evidence that smoke-free public places lead to major benefits for the economy as a whole in terms of lives saved, productivity gains, reduced sickness absences, narrowing inequalities in health, savings on NHS treatment and reduced cleaning and decorating costs.

 

References

23. Retail sales index. Dublin, Central Statistics Office Ireland, 2004.

24. Retail sales index. Dublin, Central Statistics Office Ireland, 2003.

25. Fewer businesses bust after smoking ban. 2005. Accessed April 12, 2005.

26. On the state of the public health: Annual report of the Chief Medical Officer 2003. HMSO: London, UK Department of Health, 2004.

27. Durkan J, Macdowell M. Smoke-free Policies: Market Research and Literature Review on Economic Effects on the Hospitality Sector. Clane, Office of Tobacco Control, 2003.

28. Ludbrook A, Bird S, Van Teijlingen E. 2004. International Review of the Health and Economic Impact of the Regulation of Smoking in Public Places.. Accessed April, 2005.

29. Curbing the epidemic: governments and the economics of tobacco control: development in practice, Washington, The World Bank, 1999. "

[Blondie007]

Fee Fo Fi Fum..must be the words of an Englishman....

 

The result of the smoking ban was evident at the polls last week when Alex Salmond had the biggest breakthrough in Scottish history since William Wallace... THAT I have to say..makes the ban worthwhile!

 

We in Scotland, have for MANY years had more non smoking places than any other country in the UK. We are famed for keeping public bars and lounge drinking/dining areas seperate. We wanted to keep our public bars with the owner reserving the FREEDOM of choice, as to whether or not he felt it was applicable for HIS business to be smoking or non smoking.

Smoking in the workplace was a thing of the past long before the ban. Its the dictatorship we cant take.. and we all know where that is instigated from.

Thank you for reminding me why we choose to cruise with 99% Americans and have never cruised on British Cruiseships since our last big disaster on a P and O ship.

[timbo89]

I am not a smoker, but have been on several Oceania cruises, and took some time on each cruise to chat with the smokers in the designated smoking areas. Obviously, the policy sits well with non-smokers, but, being an inquisitive sort of person, I wanted to find out what the smokers felt.

 

The overwhelming consensus was that they enjoyed the fact that they could go to a place to smoke in complete freedom, knowing that they were in no way offending anyone.

 

Several were skeptical before they left on the cruise, but said they were fine with it once they got used to the routine.

 

Of course, I did meet with a few who did not like the freedom to be able to smoke in their own room. One couple said they would never sail on Oceania again because of the policy.

 

As for enforcement, I saw Oceania deporting some passengers who refused to comply with the smoking rules.

[GAV BOY]

Fee Fo Fi Fum..must be the words of an Englishman....

 

The result of the smoking ban was evident at the polls last week when Alex Salmond had the biggest breakthrough in Scottish history since William Wallace... THAT I have to say..makes the ban worthwhile!

 

We in Scotland, have for MANY years had more non smoking places than any other country in the UK. We are famed for keeping public bars and lounge drinking/dining areas seperate. We wanted to keep our public bars with the owner reserving the FREEDOM of choice, as to whether or not he felt it was applicable for HIS business to be smoking or non smoking.

Smoking in the workplace was a thing of the past long before the ban. Its the dictatorship we cant take.. and we all know where that is instigated from.

Thank you for reminding me why we choose to cruise with 99% Americans and have never cruised on British Cruiseships since our last big disaster on a P and O ship.

 

Peoples health is more important than owners freedom !

 

Well said Ken, excellent facts, who can argue with those ! ;)

[TWELVEOHONE]

Maybe some of you forgot or don't know but the fire on a Princess ship last year was determined to be caused by someone smoking on their BALCONY.

 

I know after that incident many of the cruise lines are considering no smoking in the cabins and balconies.

[Goofyisme]

Try Regent, they allow smoking

 

Or Silverseas both allow it and in the past Regent even had a small area in the dining room for an after dinner smoke. As a former smoker I know how much I used to enjoy those. I think there are plenty of options out there for smokers so this experiment really shouldn't effect them much except of course for those who got this info last minute. All of those should be allowed to cancel without penalty.

[InsureFun]

I may try this line, I am a HAL devotee but always wanted to try Celebrity but their ships were so big...till now. I am not concerned about the health implications of breathing second hand smoke but I hate the stink of it. Sure some use too much cologne or have body odor but that type of stench doesn't waft from their balcony to mine like smoke does. These are also exotic itineraries in eco sensitive areas and smokers are generally dirty people. Take for instance HALS aft cabins in her Vista class, people comstantly complain about cigarette butts being tossed on their balconies from above. Smokers toss their butts in the ocean...as well as on the street. Why should they advise people of smoking rules, it's not like they are non smoking people just have to get off heir "butts" and use the propers areas for their fix.

[jbsmith22]

Wierd. An entire smoking thread that is more pro-anti-smoking (hehehehe) than pro-smoking. And one where the smoking contigent hasn't decided to lob personal hand grenades or nobody has taken the bait. How un-Cruise Critic-like... :D

 

My $0.02 is that as someone being forced to cruise for familial reasons I WISH I had known about Azamara before I got railroaded into sailing on Royal Caribbean. The problem I see is the same as I had selling The "O" ships -- they're too small, too expensive, and don't go to "regular" cruising spots. AND THEY DON'T HAVE FAMILY PROGRAMS!?!?!?!? What's up with that? The biggest group of non-smoking cruisers is families with kids, but "O" is decidedly kid-unfriendly and Azamara doesn't seem much better. Ah, how I miss my friend the Paradise... :( .

[InsureFun]

Wierd. An entire smoking thread that is more pro-anti-smoking (hehehehe) than pro-smoking. And one where the smoking contigent hasn't decided to lob personal hand grenades or nobody has taken the bait. How un-Cruise Critic-like... :D

 

My $0.02 is that as someone being forced to cruise for familial reasons I WISH I had known about Azamara before I got railroaded into sailing on Royal Caribbean. The problem I see is the same as I had selling The "O" ships -- they're too small, too expensive, and don't go to "regular" cruising spots. AND THEY DON'T HAVE FAMILY PROGRAMS!?!?!?!? What's up with that? The biggest group of non-smoking cruisers is families with kids, but "O" is decidedly kid-unfriendly and Azamara doesn't seem much better. Ah, how I miss my friend the Paradise... :( .

 

Its main appeal is to empty nesters, the child free and well off retirees who have been to all the usual tourist places. The fact it isn't child friendly and is more expensive so it keeps those with rougher edges away is a tremendous plus.

[BrendaJ]

Being a non-smoker with an allergy to smoke, I'm very happy to be booked on the Quest and I look forward to a nearly smoke-free environment. However, I do have to wonder if the smoking policy extends to the staff and crew. I know that many of Celebrity's officers smoke, and I can only assume the many of the crew smoke as well. I wonder if they perhaps offered jobs on the Journey and Quest only to non-smokers?

 

Where I live in Canada, all bars, restaurants and workplaces are smoke-free. I know some hotel chains are going completely smoke-free, and I suspect that, before long, smoking in public will be banned altogether around here.

 

I do feel, however, that the smokers who previously booked the Quest or the Journey should have the option to cancel without penalty. Of course, that would probably leave the door open for anyone who wants to cancel for any reason to pipe up and say "I'm a smoker - I'm cancelling". I'm not sure how Celebrity will be able to handle it. I'm very curious how they informed the people boarding the Journey yesterday of the smoking policy. It was probably quite a shock to some of the passengers.

[rebeccalouise]

I think the reason that Celebrity switched labels is because their usual clientelle is not going to like Azamara.

 

I personally have sailed Oceania Regatta (sister to Journey). I had a great time. The smoking issue was not a problem for the smokers or the other passengers.

 

For people looking for interesting ports that big ships don't go to- Azamara is going to address these needs. It is geared to the seasoned traveler, who doesn't want bingo and isn't big on gambling. People that like to eat when they want and not have to pack a tux. It will be a reserved, itinerary driven experience. We had the best food we have ever had on Oceania and I am sure Journey will be excellent. There was a formal afternoon tea every day on Oceania. If there is one on Journey- go! We still rave about that. My family and I are now looking for afternoon tea here at home. We are addicted!

 

I have kids and love Celebrity- so not ready to jump ship. Plus the cost of Azamara is prohibitive for me. Dollar for dollar Celebrity is better in my view. I like a bigger ship. I don't want butler service and of course the kids program is fantastic on Celebrity. And for those who jump all over parents for taking their kids on cruises instead of leaving them at home- huh? Most people can only take two weeks off a year to travel. If I had more time and money I would do more kid free vacations but caring parents do want to spend time with their kids. The Fun Factory isn't a "daycare". The kids come and go as they please and they want to go- Celebrity makes it fun and as a consequence kids aren't monopolizing the pool and running through the halls- making their own "fun". The Fun Factory offers my son things that i don't have access to- arts and crafts are a big favorite. They do science projects, have disco parties (with the parents), scavenger hunts (with the parents). So its not like the kids are miserable! Quite the contrary.

When I did Oceania- I left my son at home because I didn't think there would be many kids on board for him to play with. There were three (all over 9 years old). So it was mostly adults and I am sure (other than the Bermuda cruises) Azamara is going to attract adults only.

[Mr. Tucker]

Interesting question. I know on Oceania you would frequently see the officers using the two smoking areas that were for the passengers. I don't know what the rest of the crew does but I would presume they are limited to an outdoor deck and perhaps a somewhat sealed indoor lounge. There are passenger cabins and crew cabins on deck three so I would doubt they are allowed to smoke anywhere there.

 

I know on one of our cruises some crew was caught smoking somewhere in a locked supply room on deck eight. To the best of my knowledge they were all fired and put off the ship at the next port. Pretty severe penalty but then Oceania has gotten very serious about the whole smoking issue.

 

On our first cruise with them in 2004 we openly smoked on our balcony using a coke can for an ashtray which was removed daily by our room steward. We understood that many others did the same thing. On our last cruise in March this year my wife didn't dare smoke on the balcony and religiously went to the smoking areas. We heard of two people being removed from the ship for smoking on their balcony. No warning was given. They were caught and off they went. I was un-effected by the tightened policy since I have been smoke free for almost two tough years now.

[Mr. Tucker]

I think the reason that Celebrity switched labels is because their usual clientelle is not going to like Azamara.

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head there. The typical Celebrity fan loves dressing up for dinner and likes the set schedule for dining. Any upscale experience will not put those restriction on you for a vacation.