Overnight decision to start a new cruise line - A publicity stunt?

[xplrcrzn]

Oceania's newbuilds will be much larger than the R ships (but still smaller than most mass market ships) & it will be interesting to see how they change the competitive situation. In addition, we still don't know if Carnival will attempt to enter the "deluxe" market. Currently, there is a big spread between HAL/Princess and Seabourn. Seabourn has plans for two new larger ships, not quite as large as the R ships. Seabourn fans, myself included, would be very unhappy if these ships were diverted to a new Carnival "deluxe" brand but stranger things have happened in this business (as we saw a week ago with the creation of Azamara).

[tinkr2]

I am so excited to try my first luxury cruise that I can not imagine it won't be great. From working in marketing, I can assure you that research went into the development. Let's give them a chance.

[woodofpine]

I am so excited to try my first luxury cruise that I can not imagine it won't be great. From working in marketing, I can assure you that research went into the development. Let's give them a chance.

 

 

As a marketer then, you appreciate semantics....

 

Not to rain on your parade, but if you are sailing Azamara or Oceana - you are not sailing a "luxury" cruise line...

 

X calls Azamara a 'deluxe' line (Huh?) which X states is some semantic spot between 'premium' and 'luxury' (double huh?)...

 

Douglas Ward of Birlitz (a pretty definitive source) catagorizes both X and Oceana as 'premium'; Ward doesn't utilize 'deluxe' - I guess he's not marketing savvy. ;)

[xplrcrzn]

All cruiseline descriptive terms--"mass market," premium," "luxury," and "deluxe" are marketing terms. There is no central legal authority awarding these designations. Douglas Ward's terms are just his opinion.

[tinkr2]

As a marketer then, you appreciate semantics....

 

Not to rain on your parade, but if you are sailing Azamara or Oceana - you are not sailing a "luxury" cruise line...

 

X calls Azamara a 'deluxe' line (Huh?) which X states is some semantic spot between 'premium' and 'luxury' (double huh?)...

 

Douglas Ward of Birlitz (a pretty definitive source) catagorizes both X and Oceana as 'premium'; Ward doesn't utilize 'deluxe' - I guess he's not marketing savvy. ;)

Premium, luxury, deluxe... all marketing terms. Just like the sizes at Starbucks still mean small, medium and large. Whether the ship is luxury or premium, I have not experienced either. We usually cruise with the kids twice a year and stick with RCCL big ships or the occasional HAL. Clearly you are trying to rain on my parade but it is impossible. They had me at fresh flowers and butler.... or is that just a marketing term for cabin steward. Darn, tricked by those savy marketers again!

[woodofpine]

Really - no kids (at least of your of your own), no formal dress, medium size ship, with smaller galley higher end cuisine... What's not to like?

[Bodger]

OK call me a cynic, you wouldn't be the first. We all know that the first Journey sailing happened too quickly and too many things weren't ready.

 

As the name change was a 'close to last minute' decision did management realize they had a major problem and decide to implement a new name (Azamara) in order to isolate and protect the Celebrity name?

 

Bodger

[Mr. Tucker]

As the name change was a 'close to last minute' decision did management realize they had a major problem and decide to implement a new name (Azamara) in order to isolate and protect the Celebrity name?

 

Bodger

 

Interesting point!!

 

For such a major thing as rebranding a cruise line one would have thought there would have been much preplanning and that all of the material would be ready upon launch of the new name. All we got was a new name and a rather shoddy website that someone could have put together in a day.

 

To this day if you call a land based travel agent they still have no idea who Azamara is. You would think that a promotional materials blitz to travel agents and lots of media advertising would also have taken place simultaneously with the new name announcement.

[woodofpine]

No - one doesn't go though all that just because a scheduled cruise appears to be shaping up with a lot of gliches, but...

 

If this is "the line's" (which one X, Azamara, RCI's?) idea of 'getting off on the right foot' and making a 'big splash', it's pretty lame...

 

You would think, as important as a new product or cruiseline introduction that an especially polished, 'deluxe', cruise would have been strived for so that a truely 'deluxe' separate identity was created.

 

From the outset I'm surprised, X didn't,

 

1) Announce the creation of Azamara well in advance;

2) 'Offer' to transfer booking to the 'new line' rather than spring it on or force feed it to existing bookings;

3) Wait to launch the ship and line on an 'unequalled' highly polished and thus highly promotable first cruise.

 

They're now giving the first cruise away as a freebie due to cargo clogged deck space and unuseable verandas etc. They knew (or should have known) weeks in advance that they were running out of preparation time. An advance cruise cancellation wouldn't have cost so much comparatively - especially in the promotion controlled manner of a new line announcement - compared to the cost of an impression now made of having sort of laid an egg; they missed making the most of a PR opportunity big time.

 

I'm sure these ships will quickly shape up to being a lovely cruise experience. But consider what the 'announcement' and results could have been with just a little more forethought.

[yosh12]

An advance cruise cancellation wouldn't have cost so much comparatively -

 

There would have been alot more unhappy passengers if they cxld then if they did what they did.

 

We're hearing from a handful on this board. I'm sure if all 710 passengers were so enraged over this situation, it would be all over the media or we'd hear about it elsewhere. My guess is most people made the best of it, were happy with their refunds, and will cruise again in the future. Of course, some will not because this was so obviously horrific it scarred them for life from getting on another ship.

 

I really don't think Celebrity renamed this line to avoid a bad image based on a few intial sailings. If you read between the lines of everyone's complaints, this is a top notch ship, with top notch service, excellent food, and great itineraries.

 

Any travel agent who sells cruises has known since 5/4 what Azamara is. If they don't, they either a) don't sell cruises so wouldn't care anyway b) live under a rock

[xplrcrzn]

I certainly don't think the creation of a new "brand" was a publicity stunt. The cruising segment they are trying to attract is too lucrative to leave to Oceania alone. However, I don't understand Celebrity's decision to inaugurate a new "deluxe" line which will feature port-intensive cruises to exotic destinations with 7-day Bermuda runs out of NYC. The demographics of the Bermuda cruises are totally different from those sought for the S. America, Antarctica, etc. cruises. In that sense, the experiences and opinions of those on the Bermuda cruises will be of little relevance to passengers on the longer, more exotic and pricier later cruises. In fact, it is likely many of those folks have long since left Celebrity, Carnival, NCL etc and are now actually cruising Oceania, Regent or similar. In addition, current Celebrity cruisers who may be interested in Azamara are likely ready to move on from the status quo and are no longer interested in the same issues and options which hold the attention of Celebrity loyalists. So I don't think we'll get an idea about how well this venture is working until the cruises for which this line was ostensibly intended are underway and we have feedback from passengers on those trips.

[lisiamc]

My guess is most people made the best of it, were happy with their refunds, and will cruise again in the future. Of course, some will not because this was so obviously horrific it scarred them for life from getting on another ship.

 

<snort> You might well think so, from some of the comments! :D

 

It's unfortunate that the first cruise had some problems, but they all sound as though they will be resolved, given a bit more time. We're cruising on Journey in June, and I hope the majority of kinks have been smoothed out by then.

 

Lisa

[Snow Road Cruisers]

No - one doesn't go though all that just because a scheduled cruise appears to be shaping up with a lot of gliches, but...

 

If this is "the line's" (which one X, Azamara, RCI's?) idea of 'getting off on the right foot' and making a 'big splash', it's pretty lame...

 

You would think, as important as a new product or cruiseline introduction that an especially polished, 'deluxe', cruise would have been strived for so that a truely 'deluxe' separate identity was created.

 

From the outset I'm surprised, X didn't,

 

1) Announce the creation of Azamara well in advance;

2) 'Offer' to transfer booking to the 'new line' rather than spring it on or force feed it to existing bookings;

3) Wait to launch the ship and line on an 'unequalled' highly polished and thus highly promotable first cruise.

 

They're now giving the first cruise away as a freebie due to cargo clogged deck space and unuseable verandas etc. They knew (or should have known) weeks in advance that they were running out of preparation time. An advance cruise cancellation wouldn't have cost so much comparatively - especially in the promotion controlled manner of a new line announcement - compared to the cost of an impression now made of having sort of laid an egg; they missed making the most of a PR opportunity big time.

 

I'm sure these ships will quickly shape up to being a lovely cruise experience. But consider what the 'announcement' and results could have been with just a little more forethought.

 

I sure planned or not planned the reality is there is a new line.

 

However, today we received a nice form letter from the Celebrity Senior Vice President of Marketing announcing two new additions -- Celebrity Journey and Celebrity Quest … We have to guest the Marketing Department was not invited to the many planning sessions for the new line.

[ERsecurity]

A lot of discussion but not much substance. I think it sounds good and will give it a try this year.

 

I wish them luck. We need this.

[woodofpine]

Oceania didn't really start with enormous fanfare either... but then they didn't have a corporate mega-platform from which to trumpet either.

 

If X is still sending letters announcing Celebrity Journey and Quest though it really makes me shake my head. So much for separate identity... Maybe it was intentional - "Please X loyalists, this is a separate product - but not REALLY - you don't need to go over there (Oceania) now!" If a truly separate cruise line was the intent, then RCI/X muddled it regardless of how well the ultimate product delivery shapes up over the next year or so.

 

Bottom line is that X is a very good line and the former-R ships have been very well liked wherever they've been absorbed (at Oceania and Princess) so the overall cruise experience should be excellent.

[Muster Station]

Time & reviews will tell me alot before I would sail. Sounds like they started too early to sail to me.

[BrendaJ]

We are dedicated Celebrity cruisers (haven't tried any other line since our first Celebrity cruise) and we really enjoy their product. However, as lovely as the Millie-class ships are, I'm a little bored with the same old layout time after time, and I've wanted to try a smaller ship for quite a while.

Sailing on the Galaxy a few months ago was a real treat and it was nice to have a new layout to navigate. We booked the Quest for next February while on board, more because of the unusual itinerary, smaller size, and a chance to travel again with a nice couple we met on board the Galaxy, rather than hopes for a more upscale experience. I was intrigued, though, by the extras promised on the Quest and Journey. Reading these boards has, however, has prepared me for a bit of disappointment, as it appears Azamara is, at least not so far, delivering all of what they have marketed.

For one, it seems that only the suites are receiving butler service. Now for me, I can't imagine what I'd need a butler for anyways so it's of little consequence to me, however, I have to wonder why Celebrity is advertising non-existent butler service for non-suite cabins. I suspect that it is merely a marketing ploy and that the non-suite cabins have a "butler" instead of a cabin steward. However, Celebrity's loyal customers are going to feel a little hoodwinked.

That's no big deal to me, but the thing that does irk me a bit is that Azamara is advertising their cabin sizes in a very misleading way. On their website and brochures, they state that their standard verandah cabin has a stateroom area of 215 sq. feet and a verandah area of 38 square feet. I was looking forward to a slightly larger cabin than the deluxe ocean views on the M-class ships. Now, from all reports, it appears that the 215 sq. feet includes the verandah, even though the wording on the Celebrity website for all other ships is exactly the same, but the verandah is not included in the stateroom dimensions. This means that the larger cabin I was looking forward to is actually smaller than what I'm used to. Although it's certainly not going to affect my enjoyment of my cruise, this misleading marketing is annoying.

And speaking of their website, in my opinion, it really seems thrown together. Now I understand that they probably didn’t have a whole lot of time to think everything through, but to launch a new brand with a website that, if you choose to book on-line, directs you back to the old company’s website, is hardly demonstrating a lot of forethought. I mean, I’ve done some web development, and code is code – would it have been so hard to copy Celebrity’s pages and replace the logos with Azamara’s? I assume that soon this will be the case, but in the meantime, it does appear poorly planned. The website just doesn’t look polished, in my opinion. The fonts seem fuzzy, and the very limited information on the itineraries leaves me to believe that it might have been better for Celebrity to wait a few months and get all their ducks in a row before launching this “new” line.

All that being said, the important things, like quality of dining and service, and the look and feel of the ship, seem to be getting rave reviews, and I have no doubt we will love our cruise on the Quest. I’m not sure I’d want to pay the prices they are charging for it these days (the price for our cabin has gone up nearly $1,000 per person compared to what we booked it at in February) and only time will tell if the experience on Azamara will be worth what they charge. However, I’m really looking forward to trying it out, and hope that the current and upcoming cruisers on the Journey will have more of the experience they were hoping for.

[Andy]

And speaking of their website, in my opinion, it really seems thrown together. Now I understand that they probably didn’t have a whole lot of time to think everything through, but to launch a new brand with a website that, if you choose to book on-line, directs you back to the old company’s website, is hardly demonstrating a lot of forethought. I mean, I’ve done some web development, and code is code – would it have been so hard to copy Celebrity’s pages and replace the logos with Azamara’s? I assume that soon this will be the case, but in the meantime, it does appear poorly planned. The website just doesn’t look polished, in my opinion. The fonts seem fuzzy, and the very limited information on the itineraries leaves me to believe that it might have been better for Celebrity to wait a few months and get all their ducks in a row before launching this “new” line.

 

Hi Brenda !

 

I agree with your comments about Azamara's website. Sometimes, it is hard to understand how Royal Caribbean's website is state of the art, and Celebrity's website looks like nobody cares. There is no doubt that Azamara's website looks like it was slapped together, but..... they seem to be adding information each day. I have emailed Celebrity/Azamara's webmaster with many ideas on how to improve (Including improvement of the deck plans - which sorely need attention). Frankly, they should have thought of these things ahead of time, and planned things out a bit better. The only thing is, in their defense, maybe they didn't have the time to plan things in advance.

[woodofpine]

Andy's voice:

 

"maybe they didn't have the time to plan things in advance."

 

Henry Ford once said something along the line...

 

"One man will say, 'I CAN'T do it!', another will say, 'I CAN do it!' - they're both right..."

 

 

With all the who-ha about 'brands', if product launch is evidence of anything about Azamara: You better like Celebrity's "product management", because for better or worse that's what you're going to get...

[KenBT]

Well I for one think the RCI/Celebrity's announcement was definitely a great move and long overdue. Since the only other line in this sector is Oceania- granted Oceania has order for two newbuilds with the deep pockets of RCI

I would expect after the a period of time newbuilds for this line- that would

probably be maybe the same size as Oceania newbuilds but with some of

secret enhancements.

 

Azamara which loosely defined means blue sea will offer butler service in all staterooms as opposed to some other ships which only offer it in select suites.

 

I would imagine that by this time next year there will be high praise for this new line. Especially under the stewardship of a personal friend (Dan Hanrahan- now President of both Celebrity and Azamara) he knows what

to do to make this a great introduction into the sector that fills the gap

between premium and luxury. To assure a good start of this new line Celebrity

hired David Kelly, Oceania's former director of brand quality to be an associate vice president of Azamara Cruises. According to Dan Hanrahan

he was hired to help position the brand, and to insure this, David Kelly is currently sailing on the Journey where he will spend several months as the ships hotel director.

 

Ken

Travel Agency Owner

San Pedro, CA