Will Hal Follow ?

[pms4104]

Call it a stereotype if you will, but younger smokers tend to fall into a much lower economic and educational class. They're not exactly your HAL cruisers.

Another unfair stereotype ... I don't believe that HAL courts only clientele that are college-educated and fall into a middle to upper socio-economic group. That certainly would be elitist and snobbish. HAL is becoming more and more mainstream and, therefore, attractive to a wide demographic.

[pms4104]

Call it a stereotype if you will, but younger smokers tend to fall into a much lower economic and educational class. They're not exactly your HAL cruisers.

Further, I'm not entirely certain that younger smokers fall into a low socio-economic demographic.

[Gonzo70]

I would think that within one to two years HAL will follow suit and ban smoking in staterooms and verandahs. I think it would make a lot of sense for them to do this. It is very frustrating to be enjoying one's balcony and then to be disturbed by somebody lighting up in a near-by balcony. I know some people don't notice or mind this, but a lot of non-smokers easily detect cigarette smoke from some distance away and become quite bothered by it.

 

I was very pleased when I was recently on the Noordam to see that the casino was smoke free. Every week it seems that some country or a state within the U.S. passes a new public smoking ban. HAL seems to be in tune with this and likely will gradually fruther restrict smoking, taking small steps so that its smoking clientele can adjust.

[Gonzo70]

No, the day the cruise lines ban smoking in the cabins is the day I will just need to find another outlet for my vacation dollar.

 

 

Awww, why not quit smoking instead of quitting cruising? Just think of all the extra cruises you can afford by no longer spending money on cigarettes!

[RuthlessBoss]

Awww, why not quit smoking instead of quitting cruising? Just think of all the extra cruises you can afford by no longer spending money on cigarettes!

Golly, gee!! Never thought of that!! How do you know our economic status and how much we spend?:p

[Gonzo70]

Golly, gee!! Never thought of that!! How do you know our economic status and how much we spend?:p

 

No idea what your economic status is, but as a rough estimate a pack-a-day smoker averaging $5 per pack spends close to $2,000 a year on cigarettes alone, not to mention any extra costs such as extra dry cleaning costs, lowered resale of auto, increased health problems, etc. If you are wealthy, obviously having a lot of extra spending money would not be an incentive to quit smoking; but for most people it is. Either way, you still have all the positive health benefits from quitting, so it is win-win. :rolleyes:

[peaches from georgia]

HAL seems to be in tune with this and likely will gradually fruther restrict smoking, taking small steps so that its smoking clientele can adjust.

The smoking clientele is not going to 'adjust' to non-smoking cruising. They either will find a cruiseline that has reasonable smoking-permitted policies or they will find other vacation venues. I'm sure HAL knows that once they forbid smoking in cabins and bars they will lose their smoking pax. If they can fill all their ships with non-smokers only, so be it. The loss of even the small Lido smoking area itself is going to take a toll, I believe.

[Gonzo70]

The smoking clientele is not going to 'adjust' to non-smoking cruising. They either will find a cruiseline that has reasonable smoking-permitted policies or they will find other vacation venues. I'm sure HAL knows that once they forbid smoking in cabins and bars they will lose their smoking pax. If they can fill all their ships with non-smokers only, so be it. The loss of even the small Lido smoking area itself is going to take a toll, I believe.

 

Doubt it will be a problem. All the research on smoking bans in the U.S. show that bars and restaurants had improved revenues a year after smoking bans kicked in with few exceptions. Most smokers didn't stay away for long and non-smokers frequented them more often. Not to mention the healthier atmosphere in general and conditions for employees.

 

It likely will be a long time before most cruise lines go fully smoke free as being away for several days to weeks at a time on a cruise ship is much different than going out to eat at a land-based restaurant. But it is clear that in the next few years all mass market cruise lines will gradually introduce progessively more stringent restirctions on where one can smoke.

[RuthlessBoss]

No idea what your economic status is, but as a rough estimate a pack-a-day smoker averaging $5 per pack spends close to $2,000 a year on cigarettes alone, not to mention any extra costs such as extra dry cleaning costs, lowered resale of auto, increased health problems, etc. If you are wealthy, obviously having a lot of extra spending money would not be an incentive to quit smoking; but for most people it is. Either way, you still have all the positive health benefits from quitting, so it is win-win. :rolleyes:

Don't worry about me, cigs are not $5 a pack, I have a washing machine, have never had problem with autos.

[sail7seas]

Years ago, I remember a nurse posting on this board a messsge to the effect of.........

 

Smokers. Most of you will eventually be forced to give it up someday for one reason or another. Might as well do it now and get it over with.

 

For some reason, that remained in my head all these years.

Of all the smokers we have known through the years, of our group of friends/ acquaintances, there are maybe two couples left who still smoke. Everyone else has quit for one reason or another.

 

In states where smoking is banned in all public places, it really puts severe restrictions on where people can smoke. It seems the ships are gradually doing the same thing.

 

Majority ruling and all that........

[kryos]

Doubt it will be a problem. All the research on smoking bans in the U.S. show that bars and restaurants had improved revenues a year after smoking bans kicked in with few exceptions.

One exception, though, is Philadelphia. We have a particularly "enlightened" City Council that put a rather strict smoking ban in earlier this year. What the brainiacs didn't think about, though, was that the ban would apply only to Philadelphia County restaurants and bars. Drive a few miles and you could go to an establishment outside of the city and not under the ban. Restaurants and bars in the city have been getting clobbered because their smoking clientele has just gone outside of the city when they want an evening on the town. It's not that much trouble to do so.

 

What the dummies should have done was wait for the whole State of Pennsylvania to go non-smoking. The proposed ban will not be as strict as the city one (which will be overturned by the State one when it comes to pass), but then at least restaurant owners wouldn't have to worry about clients going elsewhere. If the whole state is under the same rules, then clients have a choice. If they want to dine in a restaurant, they will have to deal with the no smoking rule. People will either stop eating out or they will learn to live with it.

 

But the way things are now, people just thumb their noses at the city's strict ban ... and take their business elsewhere. Philly's smoking ban did nothing more than take vitally needed business from the City's merchants.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

In states where smoking is banned in all public places, it really puts severe restrictions on where people can smoke. It seems the ships are gradually doing the same thing.

 

Majority ruling and all that........

It's a bit different on a ship, though, Sail. When I go to a restaurant in the city (under a rather strict city-wide smoking ban right now), I can always go outside to have a cigarette during the course of the meal. Well, that's no major inconvenience. I've been doing the same thing for years when dining with non-smoking friends who didn't want to sit in the smoking section. Where before I just walked over to the bar area for my cigarette, now I have to actually step outside. Unless it's exceptionally cold or snowing or raining, that's not such a big deal. After all, how long does a dinner take? Two, maybe three hours if people are drinking too? That's a heck of a shorter time than say a two week cruise!

 

Now in the case of a cruise ship, there may not be anywhere that I can go for a smoke ... at least not during certain hours. I'm on that ship 24 by 7 and if I wake up in the middle of the night and want a cigarette, I can't just walk out onto the balcony to have one, or sit at the desk and light one up. Now I have to get dressed and go in search of a place where I can smoke ... perhaps on the aft deck which will be deserted at that time of night, or into a closed lounge ... where I might have a hard time finding an ashtray.

 

The point of this is that while I can see prohibiting smoking on balconies where wafting smoke could bother other people sitting on their own balconies, I cannot for the life of me see prohibiting it in the cabins. If I am in a cabin with others, then it is up to us to work something out for smoking. If I am sharing with a couple of friends who do not want smoking in the cabin, then it is us who have to work this out before sailing. It should not be the cruise line dictating to us.

 

Of course, I realize this is all an exercise in futility. The odds are that all cruise lines, including HAL, will ban smoking in the cabins and on balconies within the next year or so. All it took was a couple to lead the way ... others will follow suit. As you say, majority rules and us smokers are certainly not in the majority these days. So, it is us who will have no choice. We will either have to accept the new rules, or stop cruising. It's as simple as that.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[satchiesmom]

There is no easy answer to the smoking issue, people seem to get so emotional about it. I quit smoking in 1980 and it was the best decision I ever made other than marrying my husband and having my daughter. This, however, does not mean that it is the right decision for everyone. I know I would be very upset if someone told me I couldn't enjoy my martinis while aboard ship.:eek:

Please don't flame me for mentioning this, but studies have proven that second hand smoke causes health problems for non-smokers. This is when it really becomes an issue in my mind. The smoker's rights are being violated if they are prevented from smoking in public places, but my right to good health is being violated by second hand smoke. Who's rights should prevail?

I see no reason for cabins on a ship to be non-smoking, that seems a little restrictive. Alternating nights in the casino seems reasonable, both smokers and non-smokers alike can be comfortable in the casino on their respective nights. Why can't some of the bars on ships be smoking and some not? We can all cruise together comfortably with some consideration from each side.

[Marmarjudy]

I would love to know how someone is possibly bothered by someone smoking on a balcony or an outside deck with the wind, open areas, etc.?

 

But being nauseated by overbearing perfume/cologne on someone in an elevator, the show room, the dining room or another enclosed area.....that I can understand, because it's an instant piercing headache for me.

 

Judy

[RuthlessBoss]

There is no easy answer to the smoking issue, people seem to get so emotional about it. I quit smoking in 1980 and it was the best decision I ever made other than marrying my husband and having my daughter. This, however, does not mean that it is the right decision for everyone. I know I would be very upset if someone told me I couldn't enjoy my martinis while aboard ship.:eek:

Please don't flame me for mentioning this, but studies have proven that second hand smoke causes health problems for non-smokers. This is when it really becomes an issue in my mind. The smoker's rights are being violated if they are prevented from smoking in public places, but my right to good health is being violated by second hand smoke. Who's rights should prevail?

I see no reason for cabins on a ship to be non-smoking, that seems a little restrictive. Alternating nights in the casino seems reasonable, both smokers and non-smokers alike can be comfortable in the casino on their respective nights. Why can't some of the bars on ships be smoking and some not? We can all cruise together comfortably with some consideration from each side.

Well written post!

[RuthlessBoss]

There is no easy answer to the smoking issue, people seem to get so emotional about it. I quit smoking in 1980 and it was the best decision I ever made other than marrying my husband and having my daughter. This, however, does not mean that it is the right decision for everyone. I know I would be very upset if someone told me I couldn't enjoy my martinis while aboard ship.:eek:

Please don't flame me for mentioning this, but studies have proven that second hand smoke causes health problems for non-smokers. This is when it really becomes an issue in my mind. The smoker's rights are being violated if they are prevented from smoking in public places, but my right to good health is being violated by second hand smoke. Who's rights should prevail?

I see no reason for cabins on a ship to be non-smoking, that seems a little restrictive. Alternating nights in the casino seems reasonable, both smokers and non-smokers alike can be comfortable in the casino on their respective nights. Why can't some of the bars on ships be smoking and some not? We can all cruise together comfortably with some consideration from each side.

Well written post.

[RuthlessBoss]

There is no easy answer to the smoking issue, people seem to get so emotional about it. I quit smoking in 1980 and it was the best decision I ever made other than marrying my husband and having my daughter. This, however, does not mean that it is the right decision for everyone. I know I would be very upset if someone told me I couldn't enjoy my martinis while aboard ship.:eek:

Please don't flame me for mentioning this, but studies have proven that second hand smoke causes health problems for non-smokers. This is when it really becomes an issue in my mind. The smoker's rights are being violated if they are prevented from smoking in public places, but my right to good health is being violated by second hand smoke. Who's rights should prevail?

I see no reason for cabins on a ship to be non-smoking, that seems a little restrictive. Alternating nights in the casino seems reasonable, both smokers and non-smokers alike can be comfortable in the casino on their respective nights. Why can't some of the bars on ships be smoking and some not? We can all cruise together comfortably with some consideration from each side.

Well written post!

[kryos]

Awww, why not quit smoking instead of quitting cruising? Just think of all the extra cruises you can afford by no longer spending money on cigarettes!

At some point, that's probably what I will do. Smoking is becoming such a hassle anymore. But I hate to have to quit because "society" ... as in the cruise industry ... tells me I have to. I think the best chance of success is when you quit because you WANT to ... not because you feel you are being forced.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Sea King]

maybe, just maybe, some in Seattle is reading this thread

 

if so, maybe HAL will consider either banning smoking entirely in the casinos or at at a minimum, allowing smoking on alternate nights rather than using a stop watch which in effect penalizes both the pro and anti smoking groups

 

maybe HAL will consider increasing the non-smoking zones to include outside balconies .. I don't have great expectations for that being implemented at least in the near future

 

25 years ago, who could have forecast no smoking in Ireland's pubs, Rome's restaurants, on or any major airline ..

 

if the non-smokers continue to object to the dire consequences of 2nd hand smoke, the smell and burning eyes which inevitably occur daily, maybe just maybe Seattle and the other companies will "get the picture" and try to deal with the problem much more efficiently than at present

 

maybe just maybe it won't take 25 years from now until a solution is found

[michmike]

not a smoker and have never been... but by the same token, I think it's getting a bit ridiculous as far as restrictions. One of the Lake Michigan shore communities here in Michigan is trying to ban smoking on the BEACH for gosh sake..

 

You want to start a revolution in this country, treat the latte drinkers and the twinkie munchers the way we have treated smokers.. there would be a revolt!!

 

One thing I WOULD like to see the ships ban is cigars... I can deal w/ cigarette smoke, but on our last cruise there was a cigar smoker nearby who was out on his balcony from sun up to midnite polluting the air. I'd ban them entirely or restrict them to the cigar lounge..

[Sea King]

 

You want to start a revolution in this country, treat the latte drinkers and the twinkie munchers the way we have treated smokers.. there would be a revolt!!

 

with due respect michmike, I never heard of a person dying from latte or twinkies ..

 

respect your opinion .. can't agree with your example

 

as for cigars, IMHO, that's better left for another day:)

[Gonzo70]

Don't worry about me, cigs are not $5 a pack,/quote]

 

Wow, not bad! They are about $7 a pack here in Chicago with all the crazy taxes they put on them.

[Gonzo70]

I would love to know how someone is possibly bothered by someone smoking on a balcony or an outside deck with the wind, open areas, etc.?

 

On both cruises where I had balconies I several times had to leave my balcony because people on nearby balconies were smoking. For many non-smokers the scent is putrid and unfortunately all to noticeable. Open areas make little difference; if someone is smoking within approximately 50 feet (more or less depending on the wind) many non-smokers are affected by it.

[Gonzo70]

not a smoker and have never been... but by the same token, I think it's getting a bit ridiculous as far as restrictions. One of the Lake Michigan shore communities here in Michigan is trying to ban smoking on the BEACH for gosh sake..

 

What is ridiculous about this? I think that it is terrible that people can smoke on beaches. The last thing I want when I am relaxing on a beach is to be bothered by cigarette odor. People go to the beach to relax and breath fresh air (especially us city folks). One person smoking on a beach impacts everybody all around them. Also, many smokers on the beach then discard their butt into the sand which in addition to negating the beauty of the beach is also quite hazardous for the environment (i.e. birds eating the butts and being poisoned). Smoking in crowded areas (i.e. beaches, street festivals, parades) are as bad as smoking in bars and restaurants. It will not be long before most communities have such bans. Within 5-10 years smoking will be restricted to isolated areas where non-smokers do not have to suffer as a result of people choosing to purchase and use a highly toxic substance.

[Nor'Eastah]

I would love to know how someone is possibly bothered by someone smoking on a balcony or an outside deck with the wind, open areas, etc.?

 

But being nauseated by overbearing perfume/cologne on someone in an elevator, the show room, the dining room or another enclosed area.....that I can understand, because it's an instant piercing headache for me.

 

Judy

 

I thought exactly the same thing until I got a balcony cabin the first time. I was very surprised by how much I could smell the smoke, it drifts with the wind to the cabins above and behind. I thought it would be dissipated much more than it is. I also was surprised to find that there was quite a bit of flying ash. My neighbors did use ashtrays but it gets very windy out there and the ashes would end up on my balcony table and chairs. A few times we also found butts in the morning.

 

Did it ruin my cruise? Nope. But it definitely made me limit my time on my balcony and made the time I did spend there less comfortable. I did not confront my neighbors and ask them not to smoke when I was out there. It is allowed by the cruiseline so they are within their rights.

 

I thought I would post in reply to your question, hopefully in a friendly, non-aggressive manner, to provide information. I'm sure smokers are not intentionally being inconsiderate but rather not aware of how much the smoke and ash does indeed carry to other balconies.