If Silver Seas is going down hill ,who to sail?

[mp8shnt]

Sounds like we'll be seeing good deals on Silversea in 2008 as well!

[MuseCruiser]

I think both Regent and Silversea (and all the luxury lines for that matter) have struggled over the past years. It's just been within the last year or two that they are all getting back on their feet. Regent in particular wanted to be the "Carnival" of luxury lines as President Mark Conroy put it, with an impressive expansion plan of a new ship every year. That never came to pass and in fact the fleet shrunk with the DIAMOND leaving the fleet. They have yet to announce any expansion plans like Seabourn and Silversea have. Both Silversea and Regent thankfully have a fairly strong financial backing, with Regent having the Carlson group behind them and Silversea the Lefebvre family. Without that strong financial backing it's possible neither line would have survived the financial hardship after 9/11. Of course Seabourn has the backing of Carnival Corp. so they are in a good place, but they must perform or Carnival will not hesitate to off load them. Apparently Carnival had them up for sale at one point but there were no interested or suitable buyers. When they couldn't sell, I think they did the logical thing which was to expand the plan and pour some equity into it hoping for a better return.

 

Ernie

 

Very credible; thanks much.

[eroller]

I am hearing from travel agents that deal with both that Regent ships are running high occupancy (into 2008 already) and Silversea ships are significantly lower occupancy.

 

 

Here-say, and since both Carlson and Silversea are private companies, they do not have to publish occupancy rates.

 

If you look at which company is expanding, it would indicate that Silversea may be performing better than Regent. I don't think a company that has low occupancy rates or is doing poorly would be in a position to expand with new ships.

 

Ernie

[DebbieH103]

Seabourn has 2 for 1s from November 10 to the end of the year in the Caribbean, and I don't see that on SS. Considering holiday time, if one is looking only at deals, one might wonder about Seabourn.

[wripro]

I continue to find it hilarious how people will interpret any little bit of information to the benefit of their own preferred cruise line. Like parents comparing their childrens' report cards.

[eroller]

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but there is nothing wrong with having a favorite line. What I find more hilarious are those on cruise critic that seem to have a personal vendetta against a particular line and do their best to tarnish the name any chance they get.

 

Personally I am not loyal to any particular line. I sail them all from Carnival to Silversea and find things I like and dislike about every line. I have yet to find the perfect cruise line although QM2 is probably my favorite ship.

 

It's been a couple years since I've sailed on Silversea so I am looking forward to experiencing the line again in October. I think my cruise on the SILVER SHADOW will be around number 60 or so, but I may have lost track of one or two along way. I've been sailing on cruise ships and ocean liners for the past 28 years so it's easy to lose track.

 

I do enjoy keeping up with the cruise industry in general as it's an interesting industry. Some people like cars, others trains and planes. I like ships. They are a hobby you could say. My interest goes well beyond the cruise experience and is a fascination with the ship's themselves. I enjoy trying every new ship design I possibly can (regardless of the cruise line). I've reached a point where I pick my cruises based on the ship rather than where they sail to. I try not to sail the same ship twice but there are exceptions. Anything I write is not to make one line look better than another, but simply making informed assumptions based on the facts that are public knowledge.

 

Ernie

[CASHIPman]

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but there is nothing wrong with having a favorite line. What I find more hilarious are those on cruise critic that seem to have a personal vendetta against a particular line and do their best to tarnish the name any chance they get.

 

Personally I am not loyal to any particular line. I sail them all from Carnival to Silversea and find things I like and dislike about every line. I have yet to find the perfect cruise line although QM2 is probably my favorite ship.

 

It's been a couple years since I've sailed on Silversea so I am looking forward to experiencing the line again in October. I think my cruise on the SILVER SHADOW will be around number 60 or so, but I may have lost track of one or two along way. I've been sailing on cruise ships and ocean liners for the past 28 years so it's easy to lose track.

 

I do enjoy keeping up with the cruise industry in general as it's an interesting industry. Some people like cars, others trains and planes. I like ships. They are a hobby you could say. My interest goes well beyond the cruise experience and is a fascination with the ship's themselves. I enjoy trying every new ship design I possibly can (regardless of the cruise line). I've reached a point where I pick my cruises based on the ship rather than where they sail to. I try not to sail the same ship twice but there are exceptions. Anything I write is not to make one line look better than another, but simply making informed assumptions based on the facts that are public knowledge.

 

Ernie

 

Hey Ernie...

Great post as usual.

 

There were posts awhile back stating that when Silversea offered deals it was heralded as proof of Silversea's decline. Now that Seabourn is offering deals the same Seabourn proponents are relatively quiet. (And, I'm sure some Silversea proponents will see Seabourn's offering of discounts as a sign of their decline...I don't think this to be the case.)

 

We all have, and are entitled to favorites. We all also are limited...whether it be by vacation time, disposable income or length-of-life we're limited.

 

As you say, there's nothing wrong with having a favorite. What I find distasteful is when people don't agree they can't just agree to disagree.

[DebbieH103]

I look at 2 for 1 as an opportunity, not a sign of decline. These could be for anything. A lot of Leading Hotels of The World and such were sitting at 20% occupancy after 9/11 and had such deals. Sometimes these rates come when things are good for the source. They just throw things out there for a short time to get some new business. It works as long as they don't raise the rate just to show they then have a deal.

[CASHIPman]

I look at 2 for 1 as an opportunity, not a sign of decline. These could be for anything. A lot of Leading Hotels of The World and such were sitting at 20% occupancy after 9/11 and had such deals. Sometimes these rates come when things are good for the source. They just throw things out there for a short time to get some new business. It works as long as they don't raise the rate just to show they then have a deal.

 

Exactly! Sometimes a deal is just a deal! :)

[DebbieH103]

Yes, and then you may have already booked something else and wish you could do it all!!!

[wripro]

Exactly. Sometimes a deal is just a deal. We should take advantage of them whenever they occur. And I think we all do have favorite cruise lines as we should since we are all different people. What I am saying is even if I have a favorite that does not mean it is better than the others, just better for me. And I don't take offense if someone thinks another line is better. It probably is better....for them. Why get upset if someone critiques your favorite line. If you're happy that's all that matters.

[eroller]

Hey Ernie...

Great post as usual.

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I appreciate it.

[eroller]

And I think we all do have favorite cruise lines as we should since we are all different people. What I am saying is even if I have a favorite that does not mean it is better than the others, just better for me. And I don't take offense if someone thinks another line is better. It probably is better....for them. Why get upset if someone critiques your favorite line. If you're happy that's all that matters.

 

 

It's wonderful to have so many cruise choices. For instance one of my least favorite cruise lines is Holland America. I would actually rather cruise on Carnival. None the less people absolutely love HAL and they have a very strong following. It's just not a good fit for me but that doesn't make them a bad cruise line. Unfortunately if you post anything negative on the HAL board you will literally be mauled by the HAL regulars. They act like you are criticizing their mother as opposed to a cruise line. It's actually humorous how bent out of shape they get.

 

My only problem with some negative critiques is that there is a group of posters that will post the same thing over and over again to every thread they can find that is remotely relevant. In that case I end up discrediting the reviewer as obviously they have an agenda.

 

I have found that no cruise is all bad, and no cruise is all prefect either. Reviews that are 100% positive or 100% negative instantly raise the red flag, and I try to take away what I can from them. I also notice with just about every cruise line that two people on the same cruise will have vastly different experiences. This is because so much of the cruise experience is subjective to that particular reviewer. I am particularly cautious on the Silversea board because I have noticed there are very few regular posters and those that do are quite vocal. Some may have an agenda? I think most Silversea cruisers do not visit Cruise Critic and if they did, we would have a better sampling of experiences.

 

Take it all with a grain of salt and in the end (just as you mention) book the cruise line that makes you happy. That is what really matters.

 

Ernie

[avalon1025]

agree, most Silversea passengers don't know cruise critic. But i have to say the Whisper was my worst Silversea cruise (overall I had a good time meeting great passengers and great ports), I loved the Wind and the Cloud that I have sailed over the past few years. As a single passenger the rates are higher than ever due to far and few good single supplement cruises. I doubt Silversea is in any financial trouble. I am looking forward to my next cruise on SS on the Shadow (I feel they just treat that ship better as she does the world cruise).

 

One night on the Whisper, we ordered a $650 bottle of wine for 6 of us. They had run out of wine glasses and served us in plastic champagne glasses from the pool area. Now is that 5 star?

[eroller]

agree, most Silversea passengers don't know cruise critic. But i have to say the Whisper was my worst Silversea cruise (overall I had a good time meeting great passengers and great ports), I loved the Wind and the Cloud that I have sailed over the past few years. As a single passenger the rates are higher than ever due to far and few good single supplement cruises. I doubt Silversea is in any financial trouble. I am looking forward to my next cruise on SS on the Shadow (I feel they just treat that ship better as she does the world cruise).

 

One night on the Whisper, we ordered a $650 bottle of wine for 6 of us. They had run out of wine glasses and served us in plastic champagne glasses from the pool area. Now is that 5 star?

 

 

It's interesting how you can sail the same cruise line twice (or even the same ship) and have vastly different experiences. A prime example for me is QE2. The first time onboard the food, service, and entertainment made Carnival look gourmet. It was simply awful. I returned because QE2 is such a special ship, and the next time everything was wonderful. It was almost like I was on a different cruise line.

 

There are so many variables that make up a cruise experience and they can change from week to week. The ports, the passengers, the weather, the crew, the food suppliers, the entertainers, and the senior officers, etc. etc. I try to remember this if I have had a sub-par experience, and usually the next time things are much better.

 

I admit I am less forgiving on the luxury lines. You are paying enough that consistency issues should be kept to a minimum. I agree that not having proper wine glasses is unacceptable.

 

Ernie

[CASHIPman]

 

One night on the Whisper, we ordered a $650 bottle of wine for 6 of us. They had run out of wine glasses and served us in plastic champagne glasses from the pool area. Now is that 5 star?

 

Whatchu talkin' about, Willis? (flashback to the '70's)

 

All I can say is...plastic? Where on the ship were you offered plastic? In the dining room? Had this happened on ANY ship that I was on I would've sicced my partner, MuseCruiser, who's a wine aficionado on 'em. (Okay...to be honest he would've smelled the plastic a nautical mile away and the withering look he would've given the server would've melted the plastic in the server's hands as they approached the table.)

 

Seriously though...where on the ship did they bring you plastic champagne "glasses"?

[MuseCruiser]

Having sailed on 5+ cruises on Silversea, and taken cases of wine onboard each time (Grand Cru Burgundy; first growth Bordeaux and other wines), I've never been served in anyting other than proper top of the line stemware (unless its by the pool, at which plastic is required due to safety). Although I find your account difficult to believe, even if true, over multiple cruises its been the farthest thing from my experience. Was this in the Dining Room or the pool area?

[avalon1025]

First,

 

I don't take kindly to being accused of lying, I was on the Whisper two weeks ago, were you? I have over 70 cruise under my belt (with more than 5+ on the luxury lines), so I think I have the authority to make an education comment on overall service. We were told since everyone was at the deck BBQ they had no one to get clean glasses in lounge we were in. We ended up having the bottle in my cabin with our in cabin bar glasses.

[MuseCruiser]

First,

 

I don't take kindly to being accused of lying, I was on the Whisper two weeks ago, were you? I have over 70 cruise under my belt (with more than 5+ on the luxury lines), so I think I have the authority to make an education comment on overall service. We were told since everyone was at the deck BBQ they had no one to get clean glasses in lounge we were in. We ended up having the bottle in my cabin with our in cabin bar glasses.

 

My apologies if my ill chosen words left that impression. Its just so far from my experience on any of the luxury lines on which I've traveled. On SS, as well as Seabourn, Regent and even Cunard Queens Grill (QE2/QM2), the staff usually offers to decant the wine and they often serve it in Riedel or Schott glasses. Such behaviour of not getting actual glasses is not acceptable assuming it was during hours that the lounge was still open. I'm assuming this was still while the lounge was open? (I.e. not after its closing hours?) If it was during hours in which the lounge was supposed to be open, that would be something to take to the Hotel Director.

[DebbieH103]

I agree with MuseCruiser. This was not acceptable. I would NOT have accepted it. Did they know it was a $650 bottle of wine? Did all 6 people come to your cabin and use the cabin glasses? Do you mean Dixie cup or the ones that look like a wine glass? Why did they even have such things in the lounge? I certainly am not accusing anything. I want to understand what happened and how on earth anyone thought this was OK. What did you do? Say, forget it and just grab it back to the cabin?

[avalon1025]

My apologies if my ill chosen words left that impression. Its just so far from my experience on any of the luxury lines on which I've traveled. On SS, as well as Seabourn, Regent and even Cunard Queens Grill (QE2/QM2), the staff usually offers to decant the wine and they often serve it in Riedel or Schott glasses. Such behaviour of not getting actual glasses is not acceptable assuming it was during hours that the lounge was still open. I'm assuming this was still while the lounge was open? (I.e. not after its closing hours?) If it was during hours in which the lounge was supposed to be open, that would be something to take to the Hotel Director.

 

We were in the Observation lounge at the end of the on-deck BBQ sailing out of Corfu. We order the bottle from Rao, one of the wonderful pool bar attendants onboard. The wine steward came to the lounge with the bottle and no glasses. After 15 minutes he came back with plastic champaign flutes/glasses from the bar by the pool. When we asked for real glasses we were told they were all really busy taking down the BBQ and there were no glasses available. We left and went down to our cabin. I did tell the Hotel Manager (completely useless) and he re-iterated that it was a very busy time for them, no apology, not "that should not have happened" etc. Very sad, as that would never have happened on Seabourn. Overall it was those small touches, lack of anything above and beyond or remotely special on the whisper, unlike prior cruise on SS and SB that made this cruise (ship service wise) lack luster.

 

 

If Seabourn can keep their current product consistent with their current ships on board the new Odessey, with new hardware, Seabourn wins.

 

Also, my comments were forwarded by my TA's SS rep to the VP of Operations and have not heard anything, not even a form letter. Overall its the poor customer service and pompous attitude of this lines upper management and officers that will be their downfall. I feel sorry for all the hard working line staff on board their ships, they deserve better leadership.

[wripro]

A plastic glass should never be offered for wine whether it's a $650 bottle or the complimentary wine, unless as has been pointed out, it is at the pool for safety reason.

 

I have been on 8 SS cruises, 7 of which were wonderful and one very disappointing. The problem with SS seems to be consistency. Even in this limited demographic of CC (and I agree it is a very small percentage of all cruisers) we get reviews which are unequivocal raves and others which are pans (forgive the show biz references.) On a luxury line there should not be such a divergence of reactions. It's one thing for small areas to vary in quality but the overall product should be consistent. When I read that the Cloud needs to be refurbished and is not in the best of shape I wonder how SS can allow that to happen. They should not put all their efforts into the Shadow simply because she is doing the world cruises.

 

One week from today I am leaving to board the Cloud. I am going with great anticipation and the hope that I will love SS the way I always have. It is a great cruise line with terrific itineraries. I want it to be wonderful. We shall see!

[eroller]

Little things can go wrong on any cruise line. I can appreciate that. Could the wine glass incident happen on Seabourn? I think so. It all depends on the circumstances. Frankly I would be disappointed that it happened, but it would not ruin my cruise. I'm fairly certain I would have gotten those glasses one way or another. I try to judge my cruises by the overall experience. I will not let one incident spoil the entire voyage.

 

In some ways I don't think it's healthy reading too much into these negative reviews. Things happen to people for various reasons (good or bad) and those experiences may or may not relate to you at all. No matter what go onboard with an open mind. Reading too much into these negative reviews can set the expectation for failure before you even board the ship. You will end up walking onboard looking for every little thing that is not right. That is not fair to yourself or the cruise line.

 

I assure you if I went onboard any cruise line, including Seabourn, Regent, etc. I could immediately walk onboard and start pointing out things that are not 100% perfect. Some dust here, a broken light bulb there, a torn carpet over there, staff chatting when they should be working, etc. etc. I don't do that because that is not what I am on vacation for .... but there are those that do, and I think you already know the type. They can't have a good time no matter how good things are. Those are the type of people I try to avoid as in most cases they just bring the mood down. The minute someone starts complaining minutes after I meet them, I politely excuse myself and avoid them the rest of the cruise. As anyone that cruises often knows, many cruise passengers could start a second career as professional complainers. It seems no matter what the last ship they sailed on was, it's always better than the one they are currently on and they immediately start to compare. It's rather humorous but annoying at the same time. Some people just need to stay home.

 

Ernie

[duct tape]

Do you remember who the Hotel Director was? I have a suspicion I won't be surprised. Thanx.

[avalon1025]

Hotel Director was Rene Peter, CD was Ron Goodman