oosterdam not looking so good?

[tommytune]

I think that most newer posters, like myself and wife, had no idea how a simple opinion about a ship, only an inanimate object, can be taken as a personal affront by some of you. What difference does it make what ship it was? None. She thought one of the HAL ships looked a little bit in need of sprucing up on the exterior, but even something as simple as that cannot be said without her getting the third degree. What more did you want her to say? She didn't insult anyone. This thread has certainly turned my wife off of HAL and I'm sure many other people reading this, and not because we think the ships are in bad shape. We think the HAL fans are so insulting we are not sure it is the line for us.

[ekerr19]

A bit harsh, Laura?

In this case, on this thread, the OP simply expressed a concern. That's all. She didn't deserve what she got.

 

I agree it could have been "easily remedied without fuss". Too bad it wasn't.

 

 

I'm sorry Heather - I missed your comment to me until just now - but in all honesty, I think the OP posted "more" of a concern... when you post a statement to the likes of "some ships are so stunning you can't take your eye off of them" ...when she is obviously NOT referring to HAL , I understand hammy's posts...

 

I say, go with what you like - I am obviously blinded to any of HAL's flaws as I just DON'T see them - especially like this!!! You also know I am no fan of Vista class, so I tend to be uber critical of anything other than Noordam IV... we LOVED the Oosterdam cruise we were on. :)

[ekerr19]

What difference does it make what ship it was? None. She thought one of the HAL ships looked a little bit in need of sprucing up on the exterior, but even something as simple as that cannot be said without her getting the third degree.

 

Actually, it matters a great deal to many of the people here. No one likes to hear their "favorite" ship denigrated...

 

For some of us, it's just the memories of a fantastic time - to others it's a vacation that makes working 48-50 weeks out of the year worthwhile. :)

 

Many here are HAL afficionados and will cruise only HAL - we have a love of the ships, crew, experience and all things HAL in general - so we may get a tiddle bit defensive about it periodically. ;)

[Barek]

I think that most newer posters, like myself and wife, had no idea how a simple opinion about a ship, only an inanimate object, can be taken as a personal affront by some of you. What difference does it make what ship it was? None. She thought one of the HAL ships looked a little bit in need of sprucing up on the exterior, but even something as simple as that cannot be said without her getting the third degree. What more did you want her to say? She didn't insult anyone. This thread has certainly turned my wife off of HAL and I'm sure many other people reading this, and not because we think the ships are in bad shape. We think the HAL fans are so insulting we are not sure it is the line for us.

I've found it doesn't matter the cruise line. Look for similar comments on the forums for Princess or Celebrity - while viewing these forums for cruise information, I've found that all cruise lines have a set of VERY vocal defenders.

 

I'm not defending the actions here, I agree that some were a bit - shall we say aggressive? in their requests for more information. Just pointing out that it's not something specific to HAL.

[ekerr19]

I've found that all cruise lines have a set of VERY vocal defenders.

 

there is a reason for it - :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Actually, it matters a great deal to many of the people here. No one likes to hear their "favorite" ship denigrated...

 

.................................Many here are HAL afficionados and will cruise only HAL - we have a love of the ships, crew, experience and all things HAL in general - so we may get a tiddle bit defensive about it periodically. ;)

 

I understand this (having been here a long time) and should have kept it in mind when reacting. But many who come new to this board don't understand this at all. So it puts them off posting and in some cases it puts them off HAL. That's not fair to them or to HAL.

 

TommyTune (above) said it very well. Many people just can't understand anyone being offended by something said about a ship. I just think it does no harm to be a little less combative.

 

I think the difference for me between this thread and the one about asking the crew to decorate throughout a cruise is that one is about the appearance of a ship and the other was what seemed to me to be the abuse of an already overworked staff.

 

A while ago I sort of started from scratch and began reading everything here as an outsider. That's when I realized how some of what we say here comes across. There really are people who don't return simply because they don't want to go against the tide.

 

In the end, I still hope the constant exchange of feelings and opinions is what CC is all about.

[ekerr19]

In the end, I still hope the constant exchange of feelings and opinions is what CC is all about.

 

I hope so too - from all points of view. :)

[agabbymama]

Lisa -

 

I think several people here agree with you. It's very hard to take the comments seriously when the OP doesn't know which ship she actually saw..

 

In ALL the years on I've cruised HAL - "shoddy" is not a word I would have used to describe the ship - even the old Noordam III, which was no one's favorite (except mine!). :)

 

If the Noordam III would have been sailing in May 1999, ekerr19, you are not alone in saying she was your favorite. My husband and I loved her, and were saddened to hear she was removed and a "NEW" Noordam replaced her.

 

I just returned from Alaska on the Zuiderdam, and while she was lovely too, not at all in the same class as the "old" Noordam in our eyes, but still a lovely ship.

 

And I immediately thought of the classical lines of HAL ships and the dark blue and white paint job, when reading the original posters comments. HAL ships as well as Cunard are elegant classy lines. Not glitz or flashy.

[willowoodf]

 

Some ships look absolutely stunning -- I mean its hard to take your eyes off the beauty of them -- this one was sort of sad.:confused:

 

Another reason why it would be nice to know exactly what date the OP was looking at the dock is to know which other ships were there that she found so "stunning". Were they the big stark white ships she likes? The ones with colorful flowers or squiggles on the sides? Perhaps she just didn't like the darker color of the HAL hull and it just made it look drabber compared to the gleaming white or bright red of the other ships that some of us might consider gaudy.

 

I am a staunch HAL supporter and love the dark blue hulls that make them stand out from the others, but perhaps the OP does not.

 

Mary

[hammybee]

With almost 1500 views in one day, I think it reasonable to assume that the OP achieved her goal with this thread.

[fcorey]

We'll be on the Oosterdam Dec 1 and hearing this as a possibility is kinda unsettling. I would be surprised to hear that HAL would allow any of their ships to be described like that.

 

 

Deb, I was just on Oosterdam a bit over a month ago and am not sure what winemistress is referring to. The only thing that had visible wear was our veranda furniture, otherwise the ship was in good shape inside and out. Let me put it this way, if it was horrible, would I have booked the Feb 9th sailing for Mexico? :) I hope you have a great trip

[Krazy Kruizers]

We were gone most of yesterday and was hoping by the time I got back on this morning and read this thread, that it would have been conformed as to which ship and what date there was a HAL ship in PV.

 

I am just curious.

[peaches from georgia]

With almost 1500 views in one day, I think it reasonable to assume that the OP achieved her goal with this thread.

And her "goal" was??? To trash HAL? She's booked on a HAL cruise, so why would she do that? Seemed to me she just gave an opinion on what she had observed, stated her personal preference and then asked a question based on that.

[HeatherInFlorida]

............Were they the big stark white ships she likes? The ones with colorful flowers or squiggles on the sides? Perhaps she just didn't like the darker color of the HAL hull and it just made it look drabber compared to the gleaming white or bright red of the other ships that some of us might consider gaudy.

 

I am a staunch HAL supporter and love the dark blue hulls that make them stand out from the others, but perhaps the OP does not.

 

Mary

 

Mary, I agree with you .... love the dark hull of the HAL ships. I was astounded the other day to learn my DH does not!!! He loves the white hull (although not the ones covered with flowers, squiggles or whatever:) )

 

Fortunately with ships, as with people, we all see things differently and what is beautiful to one is not to another. Vive la difference:D !!! Where would we be without it?

 

With almost 1500 views in one day, I think it reasonable to assume that the OP achieved her goal with this thread.

 

I seriously doubt the OP had any goal. I think she was (in this instance) asking a simple question to which many took offense. Or possibly she is an undercover salesperson for RCL;) ;) .

 

The number of views on threads is usually directly related to the nature of the posts. When CC members see a good argument under way (or what they hope will turn into one) they come in droves. It's a kind of rubbernecking.

 

Others may disagree, but I don't think this thread has been ugly. Clearly we disagree, but that's not unusual.

 

Laura, absolutely all sides should be heard here. For some of us (me:) ) HAL can shine one minute and not the next so I really stand in the middle of all this.

[CroozeAddict]

It is comments like these that make it very clear why so many people are uncomfortable posting on this board. Do you all honestly not see it?

 

Winemistress's previous post about door decorations has nothing to do with this post. She asked a question in a very nice way, said clearly she wasn't sure whether it was the Oosterdam. Why can't people just assure her nicely she has nothing to fear and leave it at that?

 

I agree with you Heather. There are some pretty stong "Attitudes" on this forum. God forbid if you are CRUISE CRITICal of HAL. And there will be hell to pay (from some) if you refer to any of the Dam Ships by an acronym as in "WESTY" for Westerdam. I got flamed once for doing it and just shook my head in disbelief.

[Golfette]

Tommytune, Barek, HeatherinFlorida & Peaches are right on. I'm not going to quote various posts, but to a 1st time potential HAL cruiser, do the rest of you have any idea how you come across? Even Hammybee, who I usually find to be the soul of moderation.

 

I honestly think the OP - and most of those that get jumped on here - asked a simple question without any ulterior motive. We non-regular cruisers never know what's going to set you "regulars" off. The most basic question can result in a real uproar. It's no wonder that people hesitate to post questions. You really have to think it over before you post here. Obviously, I haven't thought this over.:o

[fcorey]

I agree with you Heather. There are some pretty stong "Attitudes" on this forum. God forbid if you are CRUISE CRITICal of HAL. And there will be hell to pay (from some) if you refer to any of the Dam Ships by an acronym as in "WESTY" for Westerdam. I got flamed once for doing it and just shook my head in disbelief.

 

Damn....and I've been take to referring to Oosterdam as the Big-O :D guess that wouldnt be looked upon favorably

 

...I do wonder which ship she saw though....

[Solstice]

I think that most newer posters, like myself and wife, had no idea how a simple opinion about a ship, only an inanimate object, can be taken as a personal affront by some of you. What difference does it make what ship it was? None. She thought one of the HAL ships looked a little bit in need of sprucing up on the exterior, but even something as simple as that cannot be said without her getting the third degree. What more did you want her to say? She didn't insult anyone. This thread has certainly turned my wife off of HAL and I'm sure many other people reading this, and not because we think the ships are in bad shape. We think the HAL fans are so insulting we are not sure it is the line for us.

 

Please don't let some of the more adamant voices here dampen your enthusiasm for your trip or for HAL. I booked on HAL earlier this year --- then found this forum. I was put off by some of the comments and expected to find a ship full of rabid fans! What I found was one of the most delightful experiences of my life and have since booked another HAL cruise. Let the cruise line, the personnel and the ships speak for themselves. The fans here are so intense because of their affection for the line.

 

Every voice should have a right to be heard here and posters - new ones and long-timers - should have a right to an opinion. I admit I hate to see anyone attacked for their opinions and I'm always sorry to see it happen. It's embarrassing and it's unnecessary. Differences should be the starting point for discussion, not ridicule. Criticism isn't (necessarily) an attack on a ship or on HAL, it's just an opportunity for the fans to express what they love about the line.

 

I was on Zuiderdam in July/August this year and the ship was lovely. I arranged the vacation and afterwards didn't regret my choices at all. My extended family was included and everyone treated me like a hero for choosing that ship. Now I'm looking forward to a February cruise on the Oosterdam and will be bringing along friends who have never cruised before. I'm just as confident that they will love the experience too.

 

HAL ships have a different look than other lines; I love the blue hulls and wood trimwork but it's probably not for everyone. To me it feels like the grand cruise lines of the past and that's part of what I like about cruising. I don't find their ships to be shabby at all, but even if they were I think I would still like them and feel comfortable there. If you are a music fan, then you'll know what I mean when I say HAL is more like a nice jazz club or martini bar and less like a disco or the current clubbing scene. You pick the style you like and there is a ship and a cruise line to fit it, I'm sure.

[innlady1]

no sure what the "door dilema" has to do with this. the op was just stating her observation. no big deal, but bringing up past posts that have no bearing on the current post just don't make sense to me:confused: .

 

It makes sense to me, but we all view things differently.

 

Throughout the threads here on the HAL board, in which she has posted, HAL seems to fall short as far as her expectations of cruising are concerned.

 

I, for one, wonder why she booked HAL instead of another cruise line that would be more appealing to her. It doesn't seem like the right fit...at least, that's how I'm seeing it.

 

I'm in the hospitality industry, and I do all the reservations at our B & B. When I talk to someone who doesn't appear to be a good fit for us, I refer them to another property that would be better. Other properties send people my way. We all do that. So I'm looking at this differently than most, I guess.

[Ferry Watcher]

I was even thinking about stuff onboard as well -- like getting a photo of the view from a certain part of the ship that may not be accessible to most -- I don't know what that would be but it would require them to ask one of the crew for access and see if they can get them to play along -- maybe the galley or the laundry room -- something behind the scenes.

 

Or getting a picture of something or someone random -- like a guy in a black speedo, or someone who needs waxing on his back -- or a crew member with braces.

 

I can think of lots of other things -- like trying to get someone to give them a gambling chip, getting a guest they don't know to say a rhyme and take a video of it, finding a person with a tattoo of a specific kind, the signature of the captain on a cocktail napkin (might be too hard to get), etc. etc.

 

There have got to be a bunch of things that they could collect, some easy and some not.

And yes, it should take several days -- let's brainstorm and see what we can come up with.

 

If I knew the ship better or knew more about the ports and cruising in general that would help but I just don 't.

 

These are some ideas from the OP for what her two 'gorgerous' 15 and 17 year old girls could do for a scavanger hunt while on the Zuidy this Thanksgiving. Most of us have great respect for fellow travelers and would not dream of having teens running around the pool area with cameras taking photos of gentlemen's 'backs in need of a waxing' or in a speedo. What could a crew member answer when confronted with two girls with a camera asking them to open their mouth so they can take a photo of their braces? How would any of us feel to have our bodies photographed in such a disrepectful way by a couple of giggly teenage girls? (and what are this girls learning from this???)

 

It's great that many support the OP's right to start a thread about the O'dam looking shoddy. I agree on principal that we need to support/allow for all kinds of comments and questions. Sometimes though, when you are familiar with the source, one may have less patience for such posts.

 

So please don't be too hard on those of us who are not as supportive of the OP, as some of us are familiar the OP's previous posts and we are concerned about what her intentions truly are.

[sail7seas]

There are times when I feel as though strident supporters are not supposed to express our views...... only new folks or people who are wishy washy about their HAL impressions.

 

Why shouldn't those of us who love HAL express our thoughts as frequently and enthusiastically as 'newcomers' to the board and/or new to HAL? I am a very enthusiastic person and don't feel as though I should have to be less so when writing here as I am 'live and in person'.

 

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I don't even expect many to agree with me. I'm lucky if anyone agrees with me. :D But so what. That doesn't make my opinion less valid. It should not be that those of us who have been here for a long time or have posted a lot should be silenced.

 

As long as we are not breaking the rules, we are (presumably) all adults and can ALL speak up.

 

My message for today, for yesterday and for the foreseeable tomorrows...... I think HAL is a great cruiseline and we have few complaints about it.

 

JMHO......

 

Agree? Great!

Don't Agree? That's absolutely fine as well. ;)

 

 

[CroozeAddict]

We non-regular cruisers never know what's going to set you "regulars" off. The most basic question can result in a real uproar. It's no wonder that people hesitate to post questions. You really have to think it over before you post here. Obviously, I haven't thought this over.:o

 

There is a definent difference in the tone on this forum compared to the RCI, Princess, Carnival forums. Granted, flaming occurs there but not nearly as often.

[CroozeAddict]

There are times when I feel as though strident supporters are not supposed to express our views...... only new folks or people who are wishy washy about their HAL impressions.

 

Why shouldn't those of us who love HAL express our thoughts as frequently and enthusiastically as 'newcomers' to the board and/or new to HAL? I am a very enthusiastic person and don't feel as though I should have to be less so when writing here as I am 'live and in person'.

 

I don't think that anyone is trying to tell folks not to express their opinions. I actually enjoy reading constructive posts from the "strident supporters" of HAL. I think what is being refered to here is the snobby, elitist, don't talk bad about HAL attitudes. This is, after all, a CRUISE CRITIC web site.

 

:cool:

[satchiesmom]

We have only been on HAL once, on the Westerdam, and fell in love immediately upon boarding the ship. One of the reasons we wanted to try HAL was the warmth and support of the folks on the HAL board. That cruise was in January of 2006. Since then it seems that this board has gotten less supportive and more and more defensive, and those with dissenting opinions are becoming afraid to post here. Opinions, by their very nature, are subjective. Experiences and perceptions differ and I am thankful for that. What a dull, dull world it would be if we all agreed. It seems to me (JMHO) that disagreement can be productive if expressed in the nature of healthy debate.

For those who have been turned off by these boards, please don't let that keep you from trying HAL. It is an absolutely wonderful line with exceptional service, good food, spacious staterooms and GREAT beds!!! I think you will have one of the greatest cruise experiences of your cruising life on HAL. But that is my opinion, and opinion only.

I ask all of you with many years of HAL experience who love the line, are we only allowed positive posts on this board? I don't ask this to be sarcastic or critical, I am truly interested in your answers.

[sail7seas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by winemistress45

I was even thinking about stuff onboard as well -- like getting a photo of the view from a certain part of the ship that may not be accessible to most -- I don't know what that would be but it would require them to ask one of the crew for access and see if they can get them to play along -- maybe the galley or the laundry room -- something behind the scenes.

 

Or getting a picture of something or someone random -- like a guy in a black speedo, or someone who needs waxing on his back -- or a crew member with braces.

 

I can think of lots of other things -- like trying to get someone to give them a gambling chip, getting a guest they don't know to say a rhyme and take a video of it, finding a person with a tattoo of a specific kind, the signature of the captain on a cocktail napkin (might be too hard to get), etc. etc.

 

There have got to be a bunch of things that they could collect, some easy and some not.

And yes, it should take several days -- let's brainstorm and see what we can come up with.

 

If I knew the ship better or knew more about the ports and cruising in general that would help but I just don 't.

 

I don't recall ever seeing this post before. Whew......