oosterdam not looking so good?

[sail7seas]

I don't think that anyone is trying to tell folks not to express their opinions. I actually enjoy reading constructive posts from the "strident supporters" of HAL. I think what is being refered to here is the snobby, elitist, don't talk bad about HAL attitudes. This is, after all, a CRUISE CRITIC web site.

 

:cool:

 

I am saying I feel people are trying to silence those with whom they disagree.....

 

So, those of us who are huge HAL Cheerleaders are by definition snobby and elitist? Is that the message or do I again misunderstand? I've been told before I misunderstand often. :)

[CroozeAddict]

I am saying I feel people are trying to silence those with whom they disagree.....

 

So, those of us who are huge HAL Cheerleaders are by definition snobby and elitist? Is that the message or do I again misunderstand? I've been told before I misunderstand often. :)

 

Geez ... No!!! Not ALL HAL cheerleaders fall into that category. I never insinuated that:mad:! Why do you ask anyway? Did something I said hold true for you?:confused:

 

I guess you DO misunderstand quite often.:rolleyes:

 

:cool:

[sail7seas]

Yes, I guess so.

 

I also seem to be having a hard time expressing myself. Not only do I misunderstand but think I am sometimes misunderstood as well. Sigh...... Here I thought I had a reasonably good education and speak the language with fluency. :D

 

 

 

Whaddyagonnado? ;) Momma said there'd be days like this. :)

 

 

 

 

[barbon2]

Innlady,

Perhaps you expressed what I was trying to say in a better tone. I did post an apology, but was not trying to bash the OP. I also was stating that perhaps referring back to her other posts that maybe she would not be happy on HAL. I certainly did not feel I posted in a nasty way and I do have tolerance for all types of posts. Remember, I WAS THE ONE who had a very negative Oosterdam experience and did not hesitate to post to these boards. I have been posting to these boards since the original AOL boards, so my number of posts do not reflect my actual posting. I have seen and heard it all on these boards, and at times, I guess I "loudly" express my opinion, but in this case was just trying to tell the OP that she may not enjoy her HAL experience.

Barbara

[peaches from georgia]

As for winemistress I think half the things she says such as the scavenger hunt, door decorations, etc. are said without thinking it through and knowing very little about cruising. I'm sure she said she had only cruised once before and never on HAL. But the point is that by saying she thought whatever ship she saw in PV looked a little shoddy or at the least not beautiful to her eyes, it was her opinion of that ship and she had never even seen a HAL ship before and was concerned about the interior of the Zuoderdam. So she thinks other lines have prettier ship exteriors. Not a crime to think so, in fact my husband thinks the HAL ships are pretty ugly, too, but has enjoyed all his HAL cruises and loves the interiors, the style and the crew. Why can't people have different opinions and not be attacked for it? And that is what goes on here so often. If you are not 100% positive you are put down, told what you are saying can't possibly be true, or advised to cruise elsewhere.

 

Everyone should feel comfortable giving their opinion and experiences, pro and con. But no one should be put down for what they say. There is a 'gang' mentality going on on this board recently and it never has been quite as apparent as on this thread. It is no fun here anymore. There may be a lot of new posters at times, but for those who have been around awhile you can't help but notice a lot of the regulars have left. And it's not because they are no longer cruising HAL. They just won't post here anymore.

[Krazy Kruizers]

So we still don't know for certain if it was the Oosterdam???

[sail7seas]

No, and we don't know the date she saw the ship. I, too, would like to know that.

 

 

 

[tommytune]

No, and we don't know the date she saw the ship. I, too, would like to know that.

 

 

 

Why? Her opinion is her opinion no matter what ship it was. She has said she doesn't remember the date she saw it, so why keep harping on the same question? It isn't like anyone here is going to agree with her even if you knew the ship's name. She just is going to be told she is wrong no matter what ship it was.

Mrs. Tune

[camrosegirl]

I think that it is a simple matter of the HAL fleet looking more like traditional ships rather than glitzy hotels. I love HAL, but if you put any HAL ship beside a Princess or RCL which one would a person not use to HAL be impressed with? There was a poster this summer who sailed Alaska on Oosterdam which was in port with Golden Princess and Norwegian Pearl and he was so happy that he was on a ship that looked like a ship and of course because he was on the Oosterdam he knew what kind of great service he was getting!!!!!

 

I have met many people in ports from other ships who think that those of us off HAL are the poor sisters---only we know the truth!!!!!

 

I would guess that this poster would not be impressed with Celebrity ships either--they have that traditional look.

[sail7seas]

Why? Her opinion is her opinion no matter what ship it was. She has said she doesn't remember the date she saw it, so why keep harping on the same question? It isn't like anyone here is going to agree with her even if you knew the ship's name. She just is going to be told she is wrong no matter what ship it was.

Mrs. Tune

 

 

No where have I ever criticized Winemistress. It is of interest to me to know which ship she saw. I am interested to know if, indeed, what she wrote as her opinion of what she saw was of Oosterdam. It well may have been Zuiderdam or a ship from another cruise company altogether.

 

Apparently KrazyKruizers is also interested as she has asked the question twice.

 

No where did KK criticize Winemistress that I have read. Maybe I missed it?

 

We are asking because we are interested about which ship she was speaking.

[Krazy Kruizers]

You are right -- I have not critized winemistress.

 

I just would like to know for certain if it was the Oosterdam.

 

I am curious.

[tommytune]

She did say it was definetely a HAL ship. All I was saying was that a number of posters keep harping which ship was it and she clearly has said she didn't know the name of the ship and that she couldn't remember even what day she was there. So there is no way to know the answer to a question that keeps getting asked as if asking it will bring an answer. So she thinks other cruiselines have prettier ships. No doubt she will have a great cruise and love the Zuiderdam anyway.

Mrs. Tune

[innlady1]

Innlady,

Perhaps you expressed what I was trying to say in a better tone. I did post an apology, but was not trying to bash the OP. I also was stating that perhaps referring back to her other posts that maybe she would not be happy on HAL. I certainly did not feel I posted in a nasty way and I do have tolerance for all types of posts. Remember, I WAS THE ONE who had a very negative Oosterdam experience and did not hesitate to post to these boards. I have been posting to these boards since the original AOL boards, so my number of posts do not reflect my actual posting. I have seen and heard it all on these boards, and at times, I guess I "loudly" express my opinion, but in this case was just trying to tell the OP that she may not enjoy her HAL experience.

Barbara

 

I don't think you needed to apologize, Barbara. I thought your original response was fine the way it was.

[CroozeAddict]

Everyone should feel comfortable giving their opinion and experiences, pro and con. But no one should be put down for what they say. There is a 'gang' mentality going on on this board recently and it never has been quite as apparent as on this thread. It is no fun here anymore. There may be a lot of new posters at times, but for those who have been around awhile you can't help but notice a lot of the regulars have left. And it's not because they are no longer cruising HAL. They just won't post here anymore.

 

I am clapping out loud!!!! Well said!!!!

 

Now, I am hoping that I will have nothing but wonderful things to say about the WESTY when I cruise in January but I can imagine the flames that will come my way if I don't.

 

:cool:

[diveoz]

I've been told that I am always cheery when I post on CC. That is because CC is about an awesome fun thing coming up for my wife and myself. There have been a multitude topics on which I could have posted sarchastic and/or even derogitory comments. I just don't want to pollute what should be a fun thing with a bunch of Urine and Vinegar!

As for this thread and why I am posting now: It's just a thought, but perhaps the OP has found that no HAL ship was in PV on that date. Assuming this is correct, I would be willing to further speculate that the horse is beaten and is dead and that, out of self-preservation, the OP "has left the room!"

While the OP may have worn on my nerves at times with some of her posts, it really has not been difficult for me to use self-control and just not post to those threads, rather than feeling like I should let her know what I think!

I guess I would sum it up with the words of Thumper:

"If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all."

[ekerr19]

I'm changing my mind - it's not worth it...

[CruisinKiki]

I've attached a picture of the Oosterdam on September 27 in Ketchikan. She is looking great (though the dock area doesn't look too classy in this picture). Unless something happened the following week, I can attest that she was in great condition and probably not what was seen in PV. I think the question was worth asking and commend the OP for asking it. I too would be concerned if this was my impression and I was soon to go on the ship (or a sister ship). This board is the perfect place to ask a question like this.

 

Maybe another thread should be posted on the topic of negative feedback and/or how to have a board discussion with various opinions but nobody feeling attacked. Seems this thread has turned into that discussion rather than the original question.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I've attached a picture of the Oosterdam on September 27 in Ketchikan. She is looking great ....................

 

She looks beautiful and I've suspected all along that the OP did not see the Oosterdam. A post like yours would have been a nice way to handle her concern.

 

It's unfortunate that those who cheer HAL honestly believe that people here are bashing HAL. That is not what the OP did, it's not what I did and I don't think it's what anyone else did.

 

Some of you just won't accept that HAL is not perfect. The reaction here on this thread isn't just about this one instance. It's a reaction to the same thing happening over and over and over again and the majority of posters here are just tired of it.

 

Some of you are fortunate to have always received perfect service, perfect cruises, perfect food. Be happy about that and enjoy it, but try to understand that's not everyone's experience and let them have their say.

 

No one's experience is irrelevant simply because it's not yours or mine. I've been lucky ... I've never had a bad cruise on HAL. If I do, I'll stop cruising with them. I've supported HAL on this thread hundreds of times. But that doesn't mean I don't understand when someone else has a different experience.

[ekerr19]

I've really tried to stay out of this today, however - I think I may see it from a different point of view and want to share it.

 

I didn't see the OP's questions as bashing HAL. However, I did think it was a bit ambiguous given that the OP didn't seem sure she saw the Oosterdam. I repsect the fact that she asked and said she wasn't sure...

 

However, and a big "however" -

 

I think when a person uses strong verbiage such as "pretty sad", "pretty beat up" and referencing Disney ships as being "so beautiful you can't take your eyes off them" (personally, the Big Red Boat doesn't do that for me, but I respect that it does for the OP)... without being certain which ship, let alone which line, for me - it's hard to take these comments all that seriously.

 

What I DO find objectionable on this thread:

 

1. Flippant responses to the OP based upon previous inquiries by the poster.

 

2. Usage of "Elitist" and "Snob" - why is it when anyone tries to defend HAL they are labeled as such???? This torques me to no end...

 

3. Support for a post and a poster is always a good thing, but had the support been reversed, this thread would never have survived the day - it would be on page two. Getting on a bandwagon is one thing, doing it to take shots at other posters is another. ;) I do stick by this statement.

 

4. People stating they feel they "can't" post how they feel without fear of flaming - oh, for heavens sake!!! We're all adults, post how you feel. If you're snide, prepare for it to come right back - I know this from first hand experience. ;) If you're being honest - own it! There's nothing wrong with having an opinion!

 

5. Taking a high road when there really isn't one to be taken. Ask the question and come back and reply to the posts!

 

6. Forgetting how each and every one of us is truly blessed to be here and to be able to cruise. Period.

 

They're my two cents and I WILL own them.

[barbon2]

Okay, I have to chime in here again, since I perhaps started the "bashing" (also any apology) on this topic. I HAVE made negative posts in reference to my HAL cruises along with postive posts when appropriate. As I stated before, I have posted to boards for a long time and have found certain "posters" on all of the boards that seem to post topics just to "stir the pot a bit". As others have stated on this thread, it seems that the OP is quite leary of HAL and is looking for a much more upscale line in terms of service and appearance, AND I GUESS SOME OF US HAVE KEPT HER PREVIOUS POSTS IN THE BACK OF OUR MINDS. If I were looking for a certain type of cruise experience and went on those particular boards with SEVERAL posts in a certain "tone" in reference to the line and received feedback that perhaps that line was not for me, then maybe I would look further into the line to see if it does fit the mold of the type of vacation I am seeking. I do not think that ANYONE decides either to cruise a line or not to cruise a line by the posts on a message board. I would, HOWEVER, make an appointment with my travel agent if I saw that maybe the line did not offer services (eg. personal, one on one service on demand by my cabin steward or other staff, or did not care for the looks of some of the ships on the line) before I would make a final decision. I would hate to check into Motel 6 and expect the Ritz Carlton, I would hope that a good travel agent would steer me in the right direction when selecting a cruiseline.

Barbara

[HeatherInFlorida]

Laura, I agree with almost every word you wrote. But I'm not sure I understand why you feel people can't post support of another post. It's done all the time by everyone on this board.

 

Unless you're referring to support for the OP which I didn't really see on this thread. I don't think anyone actually supported the OP so much as honored her right to ask the question.

 

There's a big difference. And this thread wouldn't have gotten to page 2 if the question had been answered early on the way it was above by CruisinKiki. Instead the question was greeted with horror that it was asked. It's my belief that's all everyone was reacting to.

[bookworm0911]

Quote: diveoz It's just a thought, but perhaps the OP has found that no HAL ship was in PV on that date. Assuming this is correct, I would be willing to further speculate that the horse is beaten and is dead and that, out of self-preservation, the OP "has left the room!"

 

Quote: ekerr- ... without being certain which ship, let alone which line, for me - it's hard to take these comments all that seriously.

 

 

And I think there were others who said WM was not sure it even was a HAL ship so she had left the room. Not so. She didn't know which ship, but she knew the cruiseline. She didn't come back for entirely other reasons.

 

 

Thanks for posting the photo.

 

This is a nice picture -- maybe it wasn't the Oosterdam I saw a few days ago in Vallarta.

 

***But it definitely was a Holland America ship --***

 

[ekerr19]

Okay, I have to chime in here again, since I perhaps started the "bashing" (also any apology) on this topic. I HAVE made negative posts in reference to my HAL cruises along with postive posts when appropriate. As I stated before, I have posted to boards for a long time and have found certain "posters" on all of the boards that seem to post topics just to "stir the pot a bit". Barbara

 

Barbara -

 

I didn't think you were bashing the OP, merely asking her how one of her other posts ended. This poster dooes seem to take a "high road" and disappear when things get tough. That is why I mentioned it.

 

I objected more to the "deal with it and get over it attitude".

 

I honestly wish this poster would come back and address certain questions, but at this point, it's all moot and probably best to let it go. :)

[CrystalWater]

As far as I see there is very little "bashing" of HAL. Almost every poster on here cruises HAL more than once and says they enjoyed their cruise. Some opinions of where improvements can be made maybe and occasionally some problems mentioned, but those would certainly belong on the regular board. What "bashing" are you talking about? :confused:

 

I agree. I think every cruise line has their good and bad points and I don't know why some people get so defensive, their underwear in a wad, and/or their nose twisted out of joint when someone gives an opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but from reading these boards, HAL and maybe Celebrity are the least bashed of the group of lines. People need to stop being so defensive and chill out. All that matters is what YOU like, not what others think or say. :p

[ekerr19]

supported[/b] the OP so much as honored her right to ask the question.

 

There's a big difference. And this thread wouldn't have gotten to page 2 if the question had been answered early on the way it was above by CruisinKiki. Instead the question was greeted with horror that it was asked. It's my belief that's all everyone was reacting to.

 

I also agree with your points Heather. However' date=' the ambiguity of the whole thread topic leads me to believe that perhaps (and I hate to presume!) that the OP wasn't [i']really[/i] interested in the answer. ;)

 

Some people like the attention - now I'm presuming again - but why not come back and address the questions that were asked??? When someone takes the stance that they are better than "all this negativity"; I begin to wonder - and I think you also posted on at least one of her other threads along the same lines...