S.S.United States to be scrapped?

[craigers]

My neighbor attended the Philadelphia area American Merchant Marine Veterans Association meeting this past Saturday(1-19-08).They were told by one of the speakers that the S.S. United States was going to be scrapped.No other lmformation was given.

[slotaddict]

It should be, it just sits there in the Delaware River getting rustier by the day. I think it is an eyesore.

[Druke I]

Did anyone really think NCL was going to bring either United States or Independence back into service?

 

I think it was just a ploy to help them get US flagging for NCLA.

[slotaddict]

Never thought about it actually.

[Don Haynes]

I have not read any new news, but I never had high hopes with the S.S. United States, and lesser hopes for the S.S. Independence. The ships are over forty, even fifty years in age, finding spare parts would be almost impossible for the engines, much less the galley. Then to get the ship to pass new world standards, unbelievable. And after all the expenditure to being it back to life, the ship might live 10-15 years, not the 30 years of a new built ship. NCL will get more bang for the buck if they built more F3s, not rebuilding the S.S. United States.

[craigers]

My neighbor attended the Philadelphia area American Merchant Marine Veterans Association meeting this past Saturday(1-19-08).They were told by one of the speakers that the S.S. United States was going to be scrapped.No other lmformation was given.

 

This information was given to them by the U.S. Coast Guard.With docking fees around one thousand dollars a day,NCL will probably be glad to see her go.When my wife was a young girl she sailed on the S.S.U.S.in 1960.

[intrepid_guy]

I would venture to say that regardless of what the USCG says, nothing would really be "final" until NCL says something since they actually own it, not the USCG. This same story/rumor crops up every 6-8 months or so, seems someone always knows what is going to happen to the Big U, though it never seems to pass.

 

Not saying that this is not correct info, just putting in my .02

 

Here is another .02 (is that now .04?) I think I agree with Don, as much as I would like to see her sailing, I probably would never cruise the ship. I would rather see 3-5 new ships on the horizon...

 

~Intrepid

[Mark]

I just hope if the United States is to be scrapped that it is done the right way...here at home in the US by Americans and not on some filthy beach in India like the Norway (France).

 

I always said the Norway should have been taken out to sea and torpedoed by the French Navy rather than where she ended up. Maybe the US Government should offer the US Navy to give the United States a fitting burial at sea?

 

The United States might make a great dive site!

 

Nah...NCL would never want to lose the money from scrap! Too Bad!

[Surfgirl]

I'd love to see her sail again, but chances of that are so remote. However, rather than being scrapped, it would be nice if they could make her into a museum ship like the Queen Mary.

[insidecabin]

I just hope if the United States is to be scrapped that it is done the right way...here at home in the US by Americans and not on some filthy beach in India like the Norway (France).

 

I always said the Norway should have been taken out to sea and torpedoed by the French Navy rather than where she ended up. Maybe the US Government should offer the US Navy to give the United States a fitting burial at sea?

 

The United States might make a great dive site!

 

Nah...NCL would never want to lose the money from scrap! Too Bad!

 

 

With the US military's record on friendly fire incidents lets hope they do it a long way from any proper ships.

[Mark]

Don't worry about it...our navy is much more accurate than the other military branches and they don't get to use their weapons nearly as often as do the air and ground forces...

[LuvBNatC]

Since no fairy godmother came along to save the SS Norway and she is having those two topmost decks torn off as I type this (and having her hull ripped full of holes like a piece of old Swiss cheese), I see no hope whatsoever for the SS United States. It's just a matter of someone at NCL making the final arrangements.

 

Any classic ship in their hands is a goner.

[cruise4kicks]

Call me cold-hearted, but NCL is a BUSINESS, not a non-profit maritime museum. Wistfulness I understand, but soppy-headed sentimentality that flies in the face of logic I just don't get. :confused:

[Don Haynes]

The way people react to news of bed bugs, I wonder what how they would react to rats. Sadly, she is rusting away in Philadelphia, she will never have balconies, and if they did rebuild her, I can hear the reviews already, she is too small and is a rat trap. I'm sure we would hear about bed bugs on her first cruise.

 

Considering her age, why don't they scrap her? Get it over with once and for all. In her day she was the pride of the American merchant marine. Today, it would take a ship larger than the Queen Mary to get as much honor.

[Don Haynes]

The way people react to news of bed bugs, I wonder how they would react to rats. Sadly, she is rusting away in Philadelphia, she will never have balconies, and if they did rebuild her, I can hear the reviews already, she is too small and is a rat trap. I'm sure we would hear about bed bugs on her first cruise.

 

Considering her age, why don't they scrap her? Get it over with once and for all. In her day she was the pride of the American merchant marine. Today, it would take a ship larger than the Queen Mary 2 to gain as much honor.

[LuvBNatC]

If NCL's "business model" doesn't include classic liners, then they shouldn't have bought the SS US or the Independence, and they should have sold the Norway while they could (i.e., before explosion), like Cunard did with QE2. Someone could have made use of all of them, instead of letting rust away beyond redemption, or be torn apart on a filthy beach in India.

 

There are MANY ocean liner lovers around the world watching the dismantling of the SS Norway through the miracle of the Internet with feelings for NCL/Star nothing short of disgust. Sentimentality aside, NCL didn't lift a finger to save any of the grand pianos or one-of-a-kind works of art on that ship, and that stuff was worth several MILLION dollars by itself. Thank God for salvagers with some sense of value, so a few things may still end up in private collections (although not the pianos - mold, humidity and bird droppings have undoubtedly destroyed them by now).

 

With smart "business" decisions like that, it's no wonder NCL is bleeding red ink.

[Surfgirl]

Call me cold-hearted, but NCL is a BUSINESS, not a non-profit maritime museum. Wistfulness I understand, but soppy-headed sentimentality that flies in the face of logic I just don't get. :confused:

 

Yes, that was cold! :eek:

 

Is it "soppy headed sentimentality" to save an important nautical historic relic? I don't think so.

 

The Queen Mary is not only a maritime museum, but a FOR PROFIT hotel. It can be done. Sorry you don't appreciate history.

[cruise4kicks]

Yes, that was cold! :eek:

 

Is it "soppy headed sentimentality" to save an important nautical historic relic? I think so.

 

The Queen Mary is not only a maritime museum, but a FOR PROFIT hotel. It can be done. Sorry you don't appreciate history.

Then, by all means, you should start a foundation to save some of these old liners. I'm sure NCL would welcome your generous offer of many millions of dollars to take the United States and Independence off their hands.

 

I do appreciate history. But I also appreciate the fact that historic preservation is not NCL's business.

[smeyer418]

Yes, that was cold! :eek:

 

Is it "soppy headed sentimentality" to save an important nautical historic relic? I don't think so.

 

The Queen Mary is not only a maritime museum, but a FOR PROFIT hotel. It can be done. Sorry you don't appreciate history.

 

which has been in Bankruptcy twice. The Town of Long Beach has spent more than 40 million dollars on it and its a flea bag.

 

The US United States was stripped down and all the asbestos removed. It is essentially a shell and a heavy one at that since it has unusually thick steel plates for its hull. I am sure NCL would sell it to you cheaply. NCL spent more than a year exploring alternatives to the scrapping of the Norway. It offered it to anyone who was financially responsible no one including the French government bit.

 

Many historic world war II ships have gone to the breakers. The intrepid was saved by one rich man who in the end couldn't afford it. NY City is spending over 40 million redoing it and redoing its pier(it had to kick in a couple of million extra when it got stuck in the mud-although the NAvy and US Army Corp of Engineers did the second floating as a training exercise-i.e. for free).

What is historic about the US US? It transported people and it was fast. Is that enough to save it? Probably not but by all means try. Its not the same ship all its furnishings are GONE.

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g32648-d104802-Reviews-Queen_Mary-Long_Beach_California.html

[asoowal]

Just to set the record straight. The BIG U is not getting rustier by the day....It's not possible, she is 100% aluminum. There have been many announcements over the years about scrapping her, but in the last conference call NCL said that they were still evaluating her future, and that there were other offers for her to be a floating hotel in many ports around the world. I think that scrap is at the bottom of the list.

[smeyer418]

Just to set the record straight. The BIG U is not getting rustier by the day....It's not possible, she is 100% aluminum. There have been many announcements over the years about scrapping her, but in the last conference call NCL said that they were still evaluating her future, and that there were other offers for her to be a floating hotel in many ports around the world. I think that scrap is at the bottom of the list.

 

The super structure is Aluminum. The Hull is steel

 

Aluminum does not fare well in salt air and when hit by a missile burns like a match. The Navy has discontinued building Aluminum ships after one of its destroyers was hit by a cruise missile and subsequent fire nearly sank it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_United_States

 

"The construction of the ship's superstructure involved the largest use of aluminum in any construction project to that time, and presented a special challenge to the builders in joining the aluminum structure to the steel decks below"

[electricron]

The SS US hull was reported to be in great shape. It was built with a thicker hull than ships built today for North Atlantic crossings during winter, and to military standards. So the rusted hull is probably thicker than all existing cruise ships sailing today.

If I were refurbishing the SS US, since all the interiors are basically stripped, I would build new interiors to modern one class cruise ships standards, vs the three originally, and chop off the aluminum superstructure and build a new superstructure with modern balcony cabins layouts. There are new lightweight steel materials that could be used to keep the total weight down so it can still maintain high speeds.

With a 990 feet length and 101 feet beam, the SS US tonnage could potentially rise to 80,000 gross tons, about the same size as the Spirit, Aloha, Sun, and America.

I believe it could be refurbished overseas for significanly less than building a new cruise ship of the same size, around $450 million. If refurbishing costs are more than building a brand new ship, I don't see how NCL could finance a refurbishing project.

When you get down to the brass tacks, it will be the ability to finance any refurbishment project that will make or break it.

[smeyer418]

The SS US hull was reported to be in great shape. It was built with a thicker hull than ships built today for North Atlantic crossings during winter, and to military standards. So the rusted hull is probably thicker than all existing cruise ships sailing today.

If I were refurbishing the SS US, since all the interiors are basically stripped, I would build new interiors to modern one class cruise ships standards, vs the three originally, and chop off the aluminum superstructure and build a new superstructure with modern balcony cabins layouts. There are new lightweight steel materials that could be used to keep the total weight down so it can still maintain high speeds.

With a 990 feet length and 101 feet beam, the SS US tonnage could potentially rise to 80,000 gross tons, about the same size as the Spirit, Aloha, Sun, and America.

I believe it could be refurbished overseas for significanly less than building a new cruise ship of the same size, around $450 million. If refurbishing costs are more than building a brand new ship, I don't see how NCL could finance a refurbishing project.

When you get down to the brass tacks, it will be the ability to finance any refurbishment project that will make or break it.

 

But that doesn't make it historic? All you have saved is the hull. Couldn't you sa the same thing if you took the hull apart and just reused the steel? The Question is does reusing the old hull save the cruise line money or permit some sort of sailing no one else can do(i.e. coast wise in the US)...

No cruise line is building a ship using steam so the engines have to go. Its better to design a new hull from scratch and get what you want than to try to shoe horn into an inadequate space. A horse designed by a committee is still a camel no matter what you call it. At 365,000 per year someone will decide this soon....BTW no one knows the actual costs. Anytime you start working on something old, you never know what you will find when you open it up....ask anyone redoing an old house..

[scottyo72]

If NCL's "business model" doesn't include classic liners, then they shouldn't have bought the SS US or the Independence, and they should have sold the Norway while they could (i.e., before explosion), like Cunard did with QE2. Someone could have made use of all of them, instead of letting rust away beyond redemption, or be torn apart on a filthy beach in India.

 

There are MANY ocean liner lovers around the world watching the dismantling of the SS Norway through the miracle of the Internet with feelings for NCL/Star nothing short of disgust. Sentimentality aside, NCL didn't lift a finger to save any of the grand pianos or one-of-a-kind works of art on that ship, and that stuff was worth several MILLION dollars by itself. Thank God for salvagers with some sense of value, so a few things may still end up in private collections (although not the pianos - mold, humidity and bird droppings have undoubtedly destroyed them by now).

 

With smart "business" decisions like that, it's no wonder NCL is bleeding red ink.

 

Norway was in service when the explosion happened. Why should they have sold a ship they were using? Who knows how NCL would have ultimately disposed of the ship if it had remained in service for a few more years. Do you really think another company would have spent the money to bring her up to SOLAS 2010 standards at nearly 50 years old? The loss of the art and fittings is sad.

 

NCL bought the Independence at public auction for scrap value, not in some sort of giant conspiracy. If there were other parties who wanted to put Indy back in service why weren't they bidding on her?

 

You can certainly question some of NCL's business decisions, but the fact remains that withough NCL, France would likely have been scrapped decades ago, and Indy would likely have been scrapped years ago. As much as I would love to see some sort of positive outcome for SSUS, she's been living on borrowed time for decades now, and NCL has at least postponed the inevitable.

[Surfgirl]

Then, by all means, you should start a foundation to save some of these old liners. I'm sure NCL would welcome your generous offer of many millions of dollars to take the United States and Independence off their hands.

 

I do appreciate history. But I also appreciate the fact that historic preservation is not NCL's business.

 

There already IS a foundation for this purpose

http://www.ssunitedstates.org/

 

and.. if "historic preservation is not NCL's business" then NCL never should have bought the USS United States in the first place! :mad:

 

Here is NCL's Offical Press Release of April of 2003:

 

Official Press Release - Norwegian Cruise Line

Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL) announced on April 14, 2003 that it has purchased the S/S United States, one of the country's most venerable ships built in the glory days of trans-Atlantic sea travel. NCL intends to convert the vessel to a state-of-the art, modern cruise ship and to add her to NCL's planned US flagged fleet. A relaunched S/S United States will add more than 1,000 American maritime jobs and 5,000 shoreside jobs to the 3,000 maritime jobs and 17,000 shoreside jobs that NCL's US flag initiative with Project America is predicted to generate.

Widely considered to be the greatest superliner ever built in this country, the S/S United States was engineered to be faster, safer and more technologically advanced than anything else afloat when she was christened. To this day, her Atlantic crossing record has never been matched and she remains the holder of the fabled Blue Riband.

 

Knowing that S/S United States faced an uncertain future, NCL moved swiftly to purchase the vessel. NCL is now evaluating options for use of the ship under US flag and determining the extent of renovations needed to convert her to a state-of-the-art, modern cruise ship that will appeal to today's vacationer. The ship is expected to offer mainland US itineraries where cruise products are not currently available. The refurbishment of the hull and superstructure will be done at US shipyards with the outfitting completed overseas. NCL is no stranger to such conversions, having converted the fabled North Atlantic liner the S/S France into cruising's first Caribbean megaship, S/S Norway.

 

"When we discovered this American icon was in jeopardy, we saw a unique opportunity and acted immediately. The ship is a classic, she was built in America and is eligible to operate in domestic service under existing law and regulation," said Colin Veitch, NCL's president and CEO. "The S/S United States would be a phenomenal addition to our US flag operation down the road. We remain focused on completing Project America and successfully introducing our innovative US flag cruise ships in Hawaii, but we will now organize a project team to work with US yards, naval engineers and architects to develop plans for what should be the fourth vessel in our US flagged fleet."

 

The announcement comes on the heels of NCL's recent commitment to begin a US flag operation in Hawaii. A new federal law will allow NCL to complete the stalled Project America as a US flagged and US manned operation for inter-island Hawaii cruise service. NCL purchased the partially completed first Project America ship and substantial materials and related components for the second Project America ship from Northrop Grumman Ship Systems (NGSS) in September 2002. The legislative initiative was designed to recover the US investment in Project America, generating hundreds of millions of dollars in economic activity and tax receipts, and creating more than 20,000 US jobs.

 

On her maiden voyage, the S/S United States set an unbroken record by crossing the North Atlantic Ocean in 3 days, 10 hours and 42 minutes. Her service speed exceeded 35 knots and she was rumored to be capable of 50 knots. Designed by William Francis Gibbs, the ship is the longest passenger vessel ever built in the United States, at 990'6", was considered an engineering marvel at the time, and held a near perfect operating schedule.

 

NCL also announced today the purchase of another classic, American-built ship, the S/S Independence, which until October 2001 was sailing in the Hawaii trade but which was a victim of its owner's post-September 11th bankruptcy. NCL purchased the vessel at federal auction from the US Maritime Administration saving her from almost certain scrapping. The potential addition of the S/S Independence as a fifth vessel in NCL's US flag operation is being evaluated.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line pioneered the modern cruise industry beginning in 1966 with the first dedicated cruise ships in the Caribbean and is recognized for innovation in the industry, most recently with its popular Freestyle Cruising concept. NCL also has a history of developing creative itineraries as the first company to acquire its own Caribbean island, with the development of the 7-day Hawaii/Fanning Island itinerary, and now with its Homeland Cruising program, where 13 North American port cities host NCL ships.