Goodbye Celebrity

[terrydtx]

Wow what a great case of ‘Thread Drift”! and the proverbial DEAD Horse!! The OP first posted that he was cancelling all his future X bookings and going to RCI because he disliked the new smoking policy of Celebrity. Now the discussion has drifted to a very heated discussion about the legality of contracts, the legality of policy changes once cruises are booked, US booking rules vs. UK booking rules vs. the Florida AG etc, etc, etc. The issue and discussion on threads on CC of smoking vs. non smoking on cruise ships is always very heated and never, settled to the satisfaction of all. The reality is that X has changed their smoking policy, and I have to assume they are well in their legal right to do so and for those of you who can not accept or abide by the new policy, it is your prerogative to switch to other cruise lines for your future cruising, some of you the rest of us will miss, some of you the rest of us could care less if you leave. The other reality is that the majority of Celebrity customers (not just the few who post on CC) are non smokers and do not like smoking on the balconies and other public area of the ship and X just like any good business is going to make rules that cater to and benefit the majority of their customers.

[bububr]

AND the "Guest conduct policy" are two seperate entities.

 

The cruise contract explains the legalities and responsibilities of each party and how they are expected to follow them.

 

The Guest Conduct Policy, is the set of rules and regulations expected of each guest and the consequences if they are not followed. The cruise line has every right to discressionarily impliment policy, such as in the search of certain bags during school vacations to look for smuggled booze or other contraban.

 

That the guests MUST abide by the conduct policy or be up to the discression of the Captain and crew as to how they will be punnished by their offenses.

 

Being said, from their online posted Cruise contract and guest conduct policy:

 

Smoking

For the comfort and enjoyment of our guests, our ships are designated as non-smoking, however, we recognize that some of our guests smoke. Therefore, to provide an onboard environment that also satisfies smokers, we have designated certain areas of the ship as "smoking areas." Generally, smoking is not permitted except in designated areas. (Contact the Guest Relations Desk for additional details).

 

Smoking is permitted in many of our lounges and on open air decks on the port side of the ship.

 

Celebrity Cruises kindly asks all guests to please observe the non-smoking areas and to refrain from smoking pipes or cigar in any of the public areas. These requests are made to provide a comfortable shipboard environment for everyone.

 

Where permitted, cigarettes, cigars and pipe tobacco must always be properly disposed of and never thrown overboard. A guest must be at least 18 years of age to purchase, possess or use tobacco

 

Consequences

Failure to act in accordance with this policy may result in:

 

•Intervention by Security, other management personnel, or law enforcement•Removal of certain onboard privileges, which may include being detained, quarantined or confined in a cabin or holding cell•Confiscation of illegal/contraband/prohibited items (may be turned over to law enforcement authorities)•Denial of boarding on the current or any future Celebrity Cruises cruise•Reporting of incidents to government and law enforcement authorities for follow-on legal action•Removal from a ship at the next port of call. Guests removed from a Celebrity Cruises ship pursuant to this policy, are responsible for their own accommodations and transportation home, at their expense. Documentation requirements for re-entry into the guest’s home country are also the responsibility of the guest.

Establishing and articulating a Guest Conduct Policy helps ensure that all guests are able to enjoy a fantastic, safe and secure cruise experience. Celebrity Cruises appreciates your support of this policy and hopes this will be the best vacation you have ever had.

 

Basically, the cruise contract says you are bound by the rules and conditions of the cruiseline. Those rules are in the guest conduct policy which is up to the discression of not only the company to set policy, but to the Captain to make any changes if he feels there is a necessity.

 

I think this issue has been beaten to death.

 

I'm sorry that some may be inconvenienced by not being able to smoke in their staterooms or on their balconies, but I do not make the rules, I follow them.

 

I also realize that it is a mess when you want to change your vacation but are already locked into a date, however policies change, and you either have to adjust, or simply move on. The lines have announced this policy well in advance, and realistically they didn't have to.

 

The contract you enter into offers you passage, entertainment, and food. It does not offer entitlments or personal rights.

 

Dave:eek:

[usha]

USHA: What I have referred to all along is the Cruise Ticket Contract not the Guest Conduct Policies, those are two different things and yes, Celebrity or anyother cruise line has Guest Policies that are suppose to be followed.

If you've been referring to the Cruise Ticket Contract all along, why on Earth are you discussing smoking? Smoking isn't even mentioned in the Cruise Ticket Contract.

Honestly, if I were as infuriated at Celebrity as you obviously are, I'd just cancel my cruise & get my deposit back!

[howndder]

I am so surprised by the fact that no one has mentioned (or at least I don't remember reading it), that most of us book our cruises up to and sometimes over a year in advance. We did. We also bought non-refundable airline tickets to get to our cruise in November. Celebrity has announced they will not be responsible for them. Is that fair? I wouldn't have needed them if I wasn't going on a cruise.

Celebrity and all other lines want us, the customer to book as far in advance as possible. They then know how to price the rest of the trip. I don't think it is wrong of me to expect that Celebrity to give me the same amount of time for notice of policy changes. We have reached Elite level and really don't think I should be punished because they want to change policy.

I don't care that the policy has changed, it's their right to do so. I just care about my vacation plans and all the work and money that went into them. I can always go on another line that still allows smoking, even though I too think it's just a matter of time. If they had given any thought to this problem they would have given more time to make the adjustment. Yes, I'm thinking again of me.

I don't feel right bashing anyone. As a smoker, I am extremely considerate, as I know how many people are offended by it. When I'm in the casino, I never smoke at the tables so as not to bother anyone. But, I don't think I should be made to crawl out of my cabin in my pajamas, to find a designated area to have a goodnight smoke. Not at over $20K for 2 cabins and 24 day cruise. No way, uh uh.

So, I too am taking my leave of Celebrity, but I do so with anger towards them. I certainly hope they can find a way to re-imburse me for my air tickets and then I will be able to leave this experience behind me.

By the way, for all the lawyers out there. I did some checking with a friend, who happens to be a lawyer, and she tells me that I may have a breach of contract suit. I too checked the brochure and the smoking section. In the 2008 brochure that I have, it says smoking is permitted in the cabins. That is in the contract that I signed. I think I should be getting what I paid for. That's all.

howndder

[usha]

In the 2008 brochure that I have, it says smoking is permitted in the cabins. That is in the contract that I signed. I think I should be getting what I paid for. That's all.

 

howndder

In the cruise contract, there is no mention of smoking whatsoever.

What "contract" did you sign?

[bububr]

The cruise contract you entered into was based on transportation, SOME meals and entertainment. Smoking is not part of nor is it listed in the carriage contract.

 

The brochure/information that you have may have been correct at the time regarding "Guest Conduct Policies", however Celebrity reserves the right to make changes to those policies at any time.

 

As an Elite Member you should remember a similar issue where the alcohol policy was changed after people had booked cruises and purchased airfare. Those who would have been had acess to beer and wine at the age of 18 were no longer able to do so because of the new policy of 21 or older. So in essence some one who was 19 the year before and did drink, would NOT be able to drink on an upcoming cruise because of the change in the GCP, not the cruise contract. No lawsuits followed as far as I know.

 

I don't think your friend who is a lawyer has a leg to stand on, although he does have a right to file a frivilous case against Celebrity, In which case he will most likely lose, tie up the court system, and get his 15 minutes of fame doing so.

 

I'm not sure what the jurisdiction of the court has on setting or changing a companies conduct policies, however I'm sure that if there is no minimum, it might be a standard 30 to 60 days. Further I'm not sure if the trip falls within the cutoff dates if the line is REQUIRED to refund monies against its policy. As for airfare, if it is booked individually it is the sole responsibility of the guest ( non-refundable REALLY means you have a year to use the funds and pay a reinstatement fee as a standard for most airlines ). If the guest had booked the flights through X, then X should be responsible for also refunding the fare as well as the cruise fare.

 

While I haven't looked into it yet, travel insurance MAY have a provision for refunding situations as this, but I doubt it.

 

Dave:eek:

[Captain Jake]

How is its Celebrity fault that someone bought a non-refundable ticket? By the way my friend the lawyer at the local health club said 'no way is this a breach of contract'.This is a case where I suppose you could sue Celebrity for you airfare but then again why pay a lawyer thousands to get few hundred dollars in airfare back? Since these are so-called non-refundable tickets they are low cost and even those will change dates for a small fee at worst.I've never signed a contract by the way until boarding so I'm sure nobody else has signed anything other than their credit card slip for a affected cruise.

[Drew B]

The cruise contract you entered into was based on transportation, SOME meals and entertainment. Smoking is not part of nor is it listed in the carriage contract.

 

Leaving the actual legalities aside, we all know that there are expectations we bring when we book a vacation. These expectations are based on our previous experience as well as the advertising "promises" of the cruise line. Clearly they are not contractually obligated to let people smoke in their cabins or on their balconies. Whether or not they are legally obligated to refund cruise fare is an issue worth discussing, but for U.S. passengers, at least, they can cancel at this point for any reason (including smoking policy) without penalty.

 

Still, what I don't get is the lack of empathy for those who are disappointed. Even if you are happy yourself with the change, can't you put yourself in somebody else's shoes for a moment and say "I'm sorry that you won't be able to enjoy your trip" instead of gloating?

 

I mean, I imagine that if X changed other policies, many of you would be disappointed. If they got rid of the welcome champagne or the waiters carrying trays in the buffet or [cover your eyes, Texed] the waffles, many of you would feel that this was no longer the line you had booked. Is X OBLIGATED to provide these things? No, probably not. However, you have every right to expect these things as part of the package that X sold you, and you would have every reason to be upset if they were taken away... I personally don't care about any of those things (and in fact, I can't stand the buffet waiters), but I would still sympathize with those of you who felt you had lost something of value...

[JCDeck]

Leaving the actual legalities aside, we all know that there are expectations we bring when we book a vacation. These expectations are based on our previous experience as well as the advertising "promises" of the cruise line. Clearly they are not contractually obligated to let people smoke in their cabins or on their balconies. Whether or not they are legally obligated to refund cruise fare is an issue worth discussing, but for U.S. passengers, at least, they can cancel at this point for any reason (including smoking policy) without penalty.

 

Still, what I don't get is the lack of empathy for those who are disappointed. Even if you are happy yourself with the change, can't you put yourself in somebody else's shoes for a moment and say "I'm sorry that you won't be able to enjoy your trip" instead of gloating?

 

I mean, I imagine that if X changed other policies, many of you would be disappointed. If they got rid of the welcome champagne or the waiters carrying trays in the buffet or [cover your eyes, Texed] the waffles, many of you would feel that this was no longer the line you had booked. Is X OBLIGATED to provide these things? No, probably not. However, you have every right to expect these things as part of the package that X sold you, and you would have every reason to be upset if they were taken away... I personally don't care about any of those things (and in fact, I can't stand the buffet waiters), but I would still sympathize with those of you who felt you had lost something of value...

 

Drew, please don't think that I and others have a lack of empathy for you and other smokers as I know this to not be true,I think the fact that the same "thing" keeps going 'round and 'round so to speak. I certainly do feel for ya'll but unfortunately this is the way things are going and most of the lines will eventually adopt this policy. We kind of knew it was coming but I guess there is NO perfect way to implement a policy change of this nature.:(

[JCDeck]

You are exactly right, however, those on this thread that are die hard non smokers will disagree with you, call you names, and bash you for having and opinion. They really need to start their own bashing the smokers thread and then they would not have to read what we write on this board.

 

Can we all now please refer to post #189

[Drew B]

Drew, please don't think that I and others have a lack of empathy for you and other smokers as I know this to not be true,I think the fact that the same "thing" keeps going 'round and 'round so to speak. I certainly do feel for ya'll but unfortunately this is the way things are going and most of the lines will eventually adopt this policy. We kind of knew it was coming but I guess there is NO perfect way to implement a policy change of this nature.:(

 

Some folks have been reasonably empathetic while others have enjoyed rubbing salt in the proverbial "wounds"... I don't consider you to be a salt-rubber, JCDeck...

 

Upon hearing of this change, the very first thing I wrote on these boards was "Good for them" (meaning Celebrity, as well as those who are pleased with the change). The new policy is not exactly what I want for myself, but I can appreciate others' happiness. I'm always surprised by people who only think of what they want and give no consideration to what makes other people happy/unhappy.

[Host Anne]

Sorry folks but it doesn't seem that there is an understanding of our guidelines. When threads continued to become contentious and members continue to address the person instead of the subject we have no choice but to discontinue the thread. There have been many such posts in this thread that have required massive clean up.

 

One additional Guidelines item I would like to point out to everyone: Postings that have been placed on the boards to disrupt the flow of conversation or otherwise disrupt Cruise Critic members' enjoyment of the Community will be removed and you run the risk of losing your posting privileges. This would include, but is not limited to, the posting of essentially the same message over and over in response to different threads on the forums.

As I have said before, we do understand that this is a very "hot" topic with emotions running high on both sides. As Host Walt has asked over and over again, please remember that we are a Cruise Community, not a Smoking community.

 

With that, this thread is closed.