Goodbye Celebrity

[rebeccalouise]

Where in the cruise contract do they discuss smoking? I haven't received my contract yet.

[Captain Jake]

The clause in the contact you are referring to concerning 'changes at any time' really refer to not being able to dock at a scheduled port.

 

Tell the Attorney General of Miami, Fl. that ruled on the fuel supplement refund, ( the charge that Celebrity tried to charge pax without notification)that it doesn't matter and see what he says. Celebrity has an obligation to all passengers ( smoker and non smokers) to compensate them when they change a sufficient part of the contact.

 

a)most if not all cruise lines added a fuel charge and X wasn't the first

b)by banning smoking you are being compensated by better health.The change can also be considered an improvement in service to the average passenger

[Drew B]

blah, blah, blah... you sound like a lawyer.

 

Good try. Smoking impacts others (humans). I don't even care if smoke causes cancer. Smoke is unsightly, stains clothes and impacts others- just like desiel exhaust. It doesn't really matter what the long range impacts are. No one wants to go on vacation and breath in methane, desiel or tabacco exhaust. Pure and simple- smoke stinks.

 

As for animals. All dead things are bad. Carcinogens exist in meats, plastics etc. If humans wish to consume meat- that doesn't really impact a cruise. So your argument is mute.

 

You have completely missed the point. Meat eating impacts others, too. Cows and pigs and sheep and chickens and fish, etc. Perhaps meat eating doesn't impact a cruise. It certainly does impact the MILLIONS OF ANIMALS WHO ARE TORTURED AND KILLED so that people can eat them. I'm sorry, but I consider that to be a bit more consequential than a cruise. Perhaps you don't care about those animals, and that is your right. I think that a person of conscience WOULD care about these creatures, regardless of the choices they make. If you can blithely act like you don't care about that killing, how can you expect ME to care about the health or happiness of fellow passengers? Incidentally, I DO care about their health and happiness, but that is not the point... If your argument is that we should consider the feelings of others rather than simply do what is best for our own self interest, I agree. I simply point out that you may wish to consider the feelings of these animals the same way you feel that I should consider YOUR feelings...

 

So, isn't it also fair to say that there was no care or sympathy by some of the smokers for non-smokers who have been negatively impacted by the old smoking policy?

 

Point very well taken. I agree. However, speaking for myself, I believe I ALWAYS HAVE showed care and sympathy towards the non-smokers. In addition to my efforts to be a considerate smoker, I have been an outspoken advocate for increased restrictions on smoking on cruise ships. I have always said that there should be smoking and non-smoking cabins so that those who preferred not to be around smokers in their cabins or on their balconies could make that choice. I have advocated for many more non-smoking bars and lounges on the ship. I have even e-mailed Celebrity (against my own best interest) in the past to request that they make changes to improve the situation for those who don't like to be around smoke. I really did feel that increased restrictions were warranted and a better compromise should be reached - I just personally believe that they have swung the pendulum too far with the details of the new policy.

 

My condolences on your mother and your brother. I also lost my mother to lung cancer, so I absolutely understand your grief.

[CruisnGram]

Yes and that is like comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo. NCL was the lowest of quality cruiselines I have ever been on in my life. You get what you pay for. NCL=Horrible!

 

There is a very good reasoon why NCL is a lot less expensive than Celebrity and I am sure your post was said with sarcasm rather than naivety.

 

Very interesting comments. I have something interesting for you also. A recent quote from someone with vast experience in cruising....The red highlight was done by me....just so you don't miss it.

 

___________________

 

On the contrary, NCL with its new 2.0 upgrade is a vast improvement over what I had experienced with NCL in its pre-Apollo past. I estimate that I have sailed NCL 4 or 5 times in the past and based upon the totality of my cruising experience (more than 55 cruises) regarded it a notch or two below HAL or Celebrity in terms of overall quality. I would now equate all three in terms of food and service and definitely give the nod to NCL for entertainment.

Our cabin cost less than $100 pp per day. Due to the decline of the US$ versus the Euro, one cannot now eat decently in Europe for that amount. This cruise provided a wonderful value and I enthusiastically recommend NCL especially if it can hold down its prices.

_____________________-

 

Hmmm, now isn't that interesting. Especially when one considers all the comments on this board about Celebrity's quality slipping, and how much the food has gone downhill. Guess maybe some people will have to come down off their high horse? :D

[Ma Bell]

Drew,

Do you feel sorry for all the animals in the world who get eaten by other animals? That's how many of them survive. How about the plants, maybe they have feelings too. None of this has anything to do with smoking.

I think those who booked before the change should have the option to cancel without penalty. Since the policy doesn't take efffect for a while it should be no problem for most. The exception should be made for UK passengers as well.

Personally I'm very happy that Celebrity has decided to limit the smoking areas onboard. I too lost my mother to smoking and I can promise you if you ever had to watch someone die from smoking you would never smoke again. Go sit in the room and hold the hand of someone you love while they struggle to breathe. It's something you will never forget.

They haven't completely banned smoking from the ships, but for the health and comfort of most, limiting it is a good thing.

[Dalmar]

If only it were that simple!! I have little or no flexibility with the dates due to work committments and additionally its our 25th Wedding Anniversary during the cruise. The only other lines that offer anything similar for the dates I can travel are HAL and Princess.

 

I'm basically just very annoyed that Celebrity have made a substantial change to the terms of my booking without informing me and it now appears that I will lose money and have the substantial added "hassle" of finding an alternative cruise.

 

I don't want to make futher comment on some of the less than tolerant and uncivil remarks that have been made by other posters, but would ask the question.... If you contracted for a service and then discovered that the provider had changed the terms and conditions of that service without notice; wouldn't you expect to receive a refund of all monies paid?

 

All I want is my money returned and I will then take my business to another supplier who can match my requirements. I would expect that most people, smokers or non smokers, would have the same attitude if a supplier varied or broke a contract.

 

That's actually a very reasonable request and should have been accomplished without any hesitation from Celebrity. The fact is they have materially changed the terms of service you agreed to when you made your deposit, and said changes were made without prior notice or consultation. A full refund should have been made at your first request. I can sort of understand why they are hesitant since all anyone would have to do to break their contract is claim they are smokers to get out of the cancellation policy, but there has to be a better way than just to make an arbitrary decision and leave you no way out if you can't live with that decision. Small claims court would be my solution in addition to letters to corporate copied to every media outlet that covers the cruise or travel industry. It's just poor customer service not to accommodate your request. In the long run, you'd more than likely return as a customer when other lines make similar service changes or you get used to the policy, ala long flights and non-smoking restaurants.

[Drew B]

Drew,

 

Do you feel sorry for all the animals in the world who get eaten by other animals? That's how many of them survive. How about the plants, maybe they have feelings too. None of this has anything to do with smoking.

 

I think those who booked before the change should have the option to cancel without penalty. Since the policy doesn't take efffect for a while it should be no problem for most. The exception should be made for UK passengers as well.

 

Personally I'm very happy that Celebrity has decided to limit the smoking areas onboard. I too lost my mother to smoking and I can promise you if you ever had to watch someone die from smoking you would never smoke again. Go sit in the room and hold the hand of someone you love while they struggle to breathe. It's something you will never forget.

 

They haven't completely banned smoking from the ships, but for the health and comfort of most, limiting it is a good thing.

 

If I were to respond to your questions about my feelings about meat and animals, that would take us further down the tangent, so I will refrain. That is a topic for another forum... As you said, that issue has little to do with cruising, as it is quite unlikely at this point that any cruise line will ever even consider going vegetarian. Clearly I failed to make the point I was trying to make with you. I hope that perhaps somebody else understood the rhetorical point that I was trying to make...

 

As I said, I DID lose my mother to smoking and I did sit in the room and hold her hand on her last night on Earth. My condolences to you on your loss...

[Bobblsc]

.QUOTE]

No, because you have to abide by all terms of the contract, a contract works both ways. There is somewhere in that contract a clause which states something like they have the right to make changes. It would actually be you then who is in violation of the contract.

 

I know someone responded to this remark, but I still just have to say: You have got to be kidding. A contract is an agreement between two parties. One party cannot change the terms of the contract without the consent of the other party. Any "contract" which would state that one party can change the terms without the other's consent is no contract at all. Attorneys, do you agree?

 

I cannot understand why and how the cruise companies can refuse to allow the return of deposits for Brits and other Europeans, as they do for U, S. citizens. I assume that we are referring to a refund prior to the final payment date, when nobody gets a refund other than by terms of the stipulations in the cruise contract.

 

I believe it is extremely unfair that the Brits cannot receive a total refund if they cancel before the final payment date.

 

What is it about the non-smokers? My wife and I smoked cigarettes for many years before stopping a few years ago, I in 2000 and she in 2002. I became convened that the individual doing the smoking was taking health risks. These are apparently even more than the lung cancer issues which were the first warnings about smoking. I am pleased to have stopped because we have saved money by stopping.

 

However, I take issue with those who insist that they be assured not to have even the slightest whiff of smoke odor from cigarettes anywhere, anytime. Do you mean to say that even the smell of a bit of smoke from an adjoining veranda will have a negative impact on your health? The statistical evidence is suspect.

 

To the OP. We sailed with Celebrity several times prior to two RCL cruises. Our last was a TA on Brilliance last fall. The Concierge Lounge and the overflow lounge on the top deck was indeed nice. The drinks before dinner and the opportunity to meet others was a plus. However, the food was lacking in taste, and other factors have sent us back to Celebrity. If Celebrity has also fallen in food quality, we will go elsewhere or simply stop cruising. There are other options for travel.

 

Bob :cool:

[spearmint]

From these posts, I gather that there is a designated smoking area. I hope that it is somewhere conducive to a drink and relaxation.

 

Might I suggest that if a passenger cannot change from Celebrity to RCCL where the same smoking policy is not yet in place, that perhaps he should see if Celebrity will change his balcony room for an ocean view room. (If one enjoys a smoke on one's balcony which is no longer allowed, then one must head off to the designated area, coffee/drinks in hand:) and the balcony perhaps will end up not being used). Then at least, one could save some cash...

 

On my first cruise (inside cabin, aft) I had to spend my daytime on the aft deck 10 or by the pool portside or on one of the aft outdoor stairwells in order to smoke--continuously. I have since quit after 40 years, after several unsuccessful attempts.:D So I know of what I speak. I love to smoke; it's just that it's not healthy. And as other posters have said, non-smoking is the way it is these days. But that does not mean that I have no sympathy for smokers. If I were on a balcony and smoke from next door was wafting over me, I would not like it.....not just because it is smoke in my face, but because it makes me want one, even after 6 years, and that situation I avoid at all costs.

[Jade13]

For those in the UK. Is the no refund policy (even a year in advance) imposed if you book directly with Celebrity, or just something set by the outside travel agents?

 

Also note, that while these Mass Market cruise lines give refunds in the US up until final payment, this is not the case with other travel agents and tour guides. We have an Antarctica cruise booked next year through A & K and if we cancel the fee is something like $600.00pp. I believe other agencys (land vacations) also impose fees (usually $500.00 pp) including Tauck Tours, Overseas Adventure Travel and others.

[rebeccalouise]

From what I am reading here- Celebrity is not the one imposing the cancellation fee. It is the travel agent. Celebrity is probably willing to move the passengers to Royal Caribbean at the behest of the travel agent.

 

Celebrity does allow cancellation with 100% refund 72 days out even if you have paid in full. Some travel agents have a $ 50 cancellation fee but this is not the cruise line.

[dkjretired]

 

I know someone responded to this remark, but I still just have to say: You have got to be kidding. A contract is an agreement between two parties. One party cannot change the terms of the contract without the consent of the other party. Any "contract" which would state that one party can change the terms without the other's consent is no contract at all. Attorneys, do you agree?

 

I cannot understand why and how the cruise companies can refuse to allow the return of deposits for Brits and other Europeans, as they do for U, S. citizens. I assume that we are referring to a refund prior to the final payment date, when nobody gets a refund other than by terms of the stipulations in the cruise contract.

 

I believe it is extremely unfair that the Brits cannot receive a total refund if they cancel before the final payment date.

 

What is it about the non-smokers? My wife and I smoked cigarettes for many years before stopping a few years ago, I in 2000 and she in 2002. I became convened that the individual doing the smoking was taking health risks. These are apparently even more than the lung cancer issues which were the first warnings about smoking. I am pleased to have stopped because we have saved money by stopping.

 

However, I take issue with those who insist that they be assured not to have even the slightest whiff of smoke odor from cigarettes anywhere, anytime. Do you mean to say that even the smell of a bit of smoke from an adjoining veranda will have a negative impact on your health? The statistical evidence is suspect.

 

To the OP. We sailed with Celebrity several times prior to two RCL cruises. Our last was a TA on Brilliance last fall. The Concierge Lounge and the overflow lounge on the top deck was indeed nice. The drinks before dinner and the opportunity to meet others was a plus. However, the food was lacking in taste, and other factors have sent us back to Celebrity. If Celebrity has also fallen in food quality, we will go elsewhere or simply stop cruising. There are other options for travel.

 

Bob :cool:

 

I responded to the comment and no I am not kidding. In my post I addressed those people from the UK and would like to know what the basis is for that policy. Is it policy or is it law, I just would like to know. I feel for them and expressed that in my previous post.

 

As to the point of the contract, what you are saying is lets follow the contract as long as it benefits me. Celebrity's clause that they have the right to make changes means nothing. Can you explain why it only applies when it benefits me..

 

Cruisers in the US may have gripes but really don't have a problem since the policy does not take affect until Oct. 1. Everyone is still in a cancellation period so there really is no harm done except for flights, etc. I am sure there are some exceptions. I feel for those in the Uk though.

[lucky white heather]

For those in the UK. Is the no refund policy (even a year in advance) imposed if you book directly with Celebrity, or just something set by the outside travel agents?

 

Also note, that while these Mass Market cruise lines give refunds in the US up until final payment, this is not the case with other travel agents and tour guides. We have an Antarctica cruise booked next year through A & K and if we cancel the fee is something like $600.00pp. I believe other agencys (land vacations) also impose fees (usually $500.00 pp) including Tauck Tours, Overseas Adventure Travel and others.

 

The booking conditions in the UK are set by Celebrity themselves and offer no cancellation refund even if you book today and cancel tomorrow...unless you have travel problems substantiated by your doctor's certificate because of health issues.... they are very rigid and do not allow the same strategy as in the US /Canada....ie. cancel before full payment and you get a complete refund of your deposit.

We would lose our deposit if you cancel unless for the reason given above and even then you might have to fight through it with Celebrity.

 

It is immmaterial whether you book via an agency or direct with Celebrity...same booking conditions apply

 

I have also responded to "Celebrity Rip off" with a few other things which Brits/ Europeans do not have either....which make me feel blatantly discriminated against.

[blong2200]

a)most if not all cruise lines added a fuel charge and X wasn't the first

b)by banning smoking you are being compensated by better health.The change can also be considered an improvement in service to the average passenger

 

Captain Jake:

 

(a) Celebrity and other cruise lines, just up one day and decided to charge the fuel supplement, without notificaiton to passengers, added the charge to passengers that had already booked. The ATG of Miami received hundreds of complaints and Celebrity, and others ( Carnival is still fighting this battle) were required to refund the charges to those that passengers. Wasn't that a change in contractual agreement?

 

(b). From one of your earlier post: How many passengers did Celebrity survey? 90% of 1,000 is 900. How many passenger do you think sail with Celebrity every year. I can say that I polled a majority of people about any subject, and say I got any answer. God Bless America! I am an United States citizen and the last time I checked, it was not illegal to smoke in designated smoking areas, no matter what you think.

 

© You still can't change a substantial portion of a contract( written or verbal) without the consent of both parties, not a majority from some poll you said you took.

[Captain Jake]

I never said that the fuel charge was not a change in contract,I was Celebrity was not alone.I never said anything against smoking in a designated area.You continue to claim people say that they said things that they did not.The new policy is fantastic,but prices seem to be rising so my guess is folks are not cancelling

[rebeccalouise]

It may not just be the passengers who want non-smoking staterooms. It may be the insurance companies.

[blong2200]

a)most if not all cruise lines added a fuel charge and X wasn't the first

b)by banning smoking you are being compensated by better health.The change can also be considered an improvement in service to the average passenger

 

Captain Jake: Yes, you referred to fuel charges in the above and said X wasn't the first. You were correct, however, they did charge the fuel charge to booked passengers without notification, thus the AG of Miami involvment. Again, you can't just up and change something without notification to ALL concerned.

 

You and others are entitled to your opinions, just as I am. God Bless America!

[bububr]

I can't see booking a vacation based on smoking or not smoking.

 

IMHO This whole thread is a bit silly. So you can't smoke in your cabin or on your balcony...big deal. You can smoke up on deck in the casino and in a number of bars or other designated places.

 

Smokers...you CAN still smoke, no one is taking that away from you.

 

What has changed is the policy set forth by the owners of the cruise line which is their right...as for RCL I'm sure they will be following suit very shortly, and you can quote me on that.

 

To me it means a slight adjustment to the way a person has to do things, thats all.

 

I do agree the UK policy should eb adjusted to allow for refunds due to certain instances, however, and I'm not 100% certain, but different countries have different business law and regulations regarding their operations. Even U.S companies operating abroad have to follow the legalities in a foreign country.....So until we find out WHY? these refunds and changes can or cannot be made we simply have to adhear to them.

 

Dave:eek:

[dkjretired]

Captain Jake: Yes, you referred to fuel charges in the above and said X wasn't the first. You were correct, however, they did charge the fuel charge to booked passengers without notification, thus the AG of Miami involvment. Again, you can't just up and change something without notification to ALL concerned.

 

You and others are entitled to your opinions, just as I am. God Bless America!

 

Not the same at all, because the cruise lines were under a previous order which they agree to years ago on the surcharge. The smoking ban does not involve a surcharge which is what is controlling here. Totally different..

[dkjretired]

I can't see booking a vacation based on smoking or not smoking.

 

IMHO This whole thread is a bit silly. So you can't smoke in your cabin or on your balcony...big deal. You can smoke up on deck in the casino and in a number of bars or other designated places.

 

Smokers...you CAN still smoke, no one is taking that away from you.

 

What has changed is the policy set forth by the owners of the cruise line which is their right...as for RCL I'm sure they will be following suit very shortly, and you can quote me on that.

 

To me it means a slight adjustment to the way a person has to do things, thats all.

 

I do agree the UK policy should eb adjusted to allow for refunds due to certain instances, however, and I'm not 100% certain, but different countries have different business law and regulations regarding their operations. Even U.S companies operating abroad have to follow the legalities in a foreign country.....So until we find out WHY? these refunds and changes can or cannot be made we simply have to adhear to them.

 

Dave:eek:

 

Dave:

 

I agree with you on almost everything you said but I do not believe that RC will be changing their policy. Their policy was recently changed and is not much older than Celebrity's and I think the policy changes on RCI and Celebrity were all done the way they were on purpose. It gives people an option either way while still sailing with the same company.

[bububr]

Oops! double post

[cruzmaven]

I think the whole reason that X announced this policy 6 months early is to give people who already booked a chance to change their plans. In that regard, it is absurd that X is not allowing UK passengers to cancel without penalty. If I was a smoking US passenger I might be upset or disappointed about the policy and would decide whether it was an important enough of a deal for me to change my plans. But since I have that option, I really don't think I would be that upset with X. They have the right to set policies and I have the right to give them my business or not. However, if I was a UK passenger and wasn't given the option to cancel and make other plans, over six months before the cruise, I would be outraged. As costs go up and prices have to rise, cruise lines, including X are going to have to rely more on European cruisers who are in a more favorable position vis a vis the current rates of exchange. If I was an aggrieved passenger who X did not allow to cancel now, I certainly would take my business elsewhere later and boycott X and RCI, regardless of what the smoking policies on the various lines are.

[bububr]

Thats was a good point you brought up, and food for thought. Thanks!

 

Now if we could just have FEWER children on X and MORE on RCL...At least that will make me a happy camper!:D .

 

Dave:eek: .

 

BTW: John and I haven't booked any future cruises other than our June and September shortie, not because of the smoking issue but because we truly now feel that X is failing in its promise to deliver in the food, service and adhearance to policies...After years of cruising on what we felt was a top notch brand...we now equate it with any other mainstream brand. we have travelled in the past....perhaps we're just jaded....And to think I used to be an X 'cheerleader'....

 

So while I don't like the say "good bye" because it seems so permanent....For us it will just be taking a break and sailing some of the other lines we've sailed in the past to make some fresh comparissons.

[Xcruiser]

I can't see booking a vacation based on smoking or not smoking.

 

IMHO This whole thread is a bit silly. So you can't smoke in your cabin or on your balcony...big deal. You can smoke up on deck in the casino and in a number of bars or other designated places.

 

Smokers...you CAN still smoke, no one is taking that away from you.

 

Hi Dave,:)

 

I agree, the new restrictions are just an inconvenience to smokers and are a long way from banning onboard smoking on Celebrity ships. I always thought it was just the same for non-smokers now with complaints about smelling smoke on their balcony.

 

I think this has got blown way out of proportion and the new restrictions should not be a major consideration in planning a cruise. Inconveniencing smokers is part of everyday life most places these days so it’s hard to give a valid argument to making things more convenient to smoke.

 

I agree with you on almost everything you said but I do not believe that RC will be changing their policy. Their policy was recently changed and is not much older than Celebrity's and I think the policy changes on RCI and Celebrity were all done the way they were on purpose. It gives people an option either way while still sailing with the same company.

Don,

 

I agree with you about RCI as I don’t see them changing their rules after just setting them anytime soon. I will go out on the line with a prediction that HAL will follow Celebrity’s lead on this very soon. I have a feeling that banning smoking on balconies may have more to do with attracting new customers and better insurance carrier discounts than appeasing current non-smoking customers.

 

Joel

[dkjretired]

Thats was a good point you brought up, and food for thought. Thanks!

 

Now if we could just have FEWER children on X and MORE on RCL...At least that will make me a happy camper!:D .

 

Dave:eek: .

 

BTW: John and I haven't booked any future cruises other than our June and September shortie, not because of the smoking issue but because we truly now feel that X is failing in its promise to deliver in the food, service and adhearance to policies...After years of cruising on what we felt was a top notch brand...we now equate it with any other mainstream brand. we have travelled in the past....perhaps we're just jaded....And to think I used to be an X 'cheerleader'....

 

So while I don't like the say "good bye" because it seems so permanent....For us it will just be taking a break and sailing some of the other lines we've sailed in the past to make some fresh comparissons.

 

Sorry, another disagreement, I believe children should enjoy themselves on Celebrity. My kids grew up with several cruises on Celebrity and their children's programs are highly underrated. Actually it is my opinion that if it were not for families with children traveling on Celebrity, they would not exist now.