Goodbye Celebrity

[Luckyladym]

It would seem to me that it wont be long before RCI initiates the same policy on it's vessels.

 

They started with the Azamara fleet....same regs. as Celebrity has now adopted.. No smoking anywhere except in two designated areas. We were on Quest in Jan. with smokers and non-smokers in our group and it worked very well. The smokers all left after dinner to join the others in the designated areas and then met up with us later.

 

Celebrity has not banned smoking entirely....they have just confined it to a designated area.

 

For those who really love the X ships, I would suggest that if they are smokers, they give the new regs. and smoking areas a try before moving on to who knows what.

 

Happy cruising to you all...

Marilyn

[blong2200]

If you really do believe that non-smokers are going to "ruin" your cruise to Hawaii, I can't imagine why you aren't cancelling that cruise. It sounds as though you've already ruined it for yourself with that line of thought. JMO...

 

Why would non smokers ruin my cruise? Can't imagine! Have you read the attitude some of them have on this board. "My world, not yours and you need to go!"

 

If they just don't come in my space: pool deck, casino, etc. where I am allowed to smoke, and stare at me, fan in front of their noses, or make ugly comments, then we can all live peacefully and this or any other policy will not be a problem for anyone!

[rebeccalouise]

I have sailed Norwegian four times and have always had a great time. But I just feel that I have outgrown NCL. I like the ambiance better on Celebrity.

 

If I could give a comparison of the lines I'd put it this way...

 

Carnival, spacious cabins, loud colors, good food, good service- crowded ships.

NCL, small cabins, loud colors, good variety of good, good service- crowded ships

Royal Caribbean, nice average size cabins, muted colors, plentiful food, great desserts, good service- crowded ships.

Costa, small cabins, loud colors, good food, good service. Crowded ships.

Princess, larger than average cabins, muted colors, good food, poor service, crowded ships.

Celebrity, average size cabins, sophisticated decor, good food, great service- less crowded.

Cunard, spacious cabins, upscale decor, good food, poor diningroom and buffet service, less crowded ships.

Oceania- average size cabins, sophisticated decor, best food at sea, good service- intimate, not crowded ships.

[foxyG]

Why don't you do what the OP did. Work with X to move your cruise to Royal Caribbean and save your deposit and sail on a ship with a smoking policy more condusive to you likes

 

They seemed more than happy to work with the OP

 

If only it were that simple!! I have little or no flexibility with the dates due to work committments and additionally its our 25th Wedding Anniversary during the cruise. The only other lines that offer anything similar for the dates I can travel are HAL and Princess.

 

I'm basically just very annoyed that Celebrity have made a substantial change to the terms of my booking without informing me and it now appears that I will lose money and have the substantial added "hassle" of finding an alternative cruise.

 

I don't want to make futher comment on some of the less than tolerant and uncivil remarks that have been made by other posters, but would ask the question.... If you contracted for a service and then discovered that the provider had changed the terms and conditions of that service without notice; wouldn't you expect to receive a refund of all monies paid?

 

All I want is my money returned and I will then take my business to another supplier who can match my requirements. I would expect that most people, smokers or non smokers, would have the same attitude if a supplier varied or broke a contract.

[usha]

Why would non smokers ruin my cruise? Can't imagine! Have you read the attitude some of them have on this board. "My world, not yours and you need to go!"

No, I haven't read one post that said that. Is it possible you're reading more into posts than people are actually saying?

[Karynanne]

Why would non smokers ruin my cruise? Can't imagine! Have you read the attitude some of them have on this board. "My world, not yours and you need to go!"

 

If they just don't come in my space: pool deck, casino, etc. where I am allowed to smoke, and stare at me, fan in front of their noses, or make ugly comments, then we can all live peacefully and this or any other policy will not be a problem for anyone!

 

I haven't read any posts that were blatantly saying, "My world, not your's, and you need to go". I felt the general concensus what that most Celebrity passengers, who post on this board, were pleased with the new policy.

 

Celebrity's new policy doesn't state that their ships are going to be totally smoke-free...but will have designated smoking areas.

 

Whether you take your pending cruise, or not take your cruise, is a matter of choice.

 

I highly doubt anyone is going to seek you out and stare, or make ugly comments. Give your fellow passengers a little more credit, than to stoop to that level.

[Ms. J.]

I have really enjoyed reading all your posts. It's the age-old debate about smoking, for sure. The reason I quit smoking in 1980 (at age 30....you do the math) was for the fact that it was then that non-smokers were asking us not to smoke in their house. Then came the ban of smoking in public buildings and other offices. Pure peer pressure for me. Soon, the restaurants in my area got rid of the smoking sections....and God forbid, bars were actually banning smoking! It wasn't fun, but I made the decision that if I didn't quit smoking (and I loved my 2-3 packs a day), I would be bannished from comfortable areas. I'm not one of those "holier than thou" ex-smokers, and I don't even mind being around smokers. I also quit for all the reasons terrydtx said on page 2 of this thread. Great post, terrydtx!

 

On a related topic, here's something that's really drastic. In the city of Del Mar (north county, San Diego) there is NO smoking anywhere in Del Mar except your house or your car.....not outside, at the beach or on the streets. For reasons like this, I'm really glad I quit....as much as I liked smoking, it turned out to be the best thing I ever did. That being said, I will tell you that IF I still smoked, I'd have to get used to the deignated smoking areas....and be glad they had them at all. So on both sides a little tolerance goes a long way. Heck, sometimes I sit with my smoker friends in the smoking areas. Take care, all and have some fun today. Jini

[micmacmissy]

Gee, Usha, maybe you've caught me, confusing two of my better experiences ...I know I have the date right...I had,of course, been smoking in the casino on the last night of a cruise and on the way back to our cabin, I threw away the rest of my pack.

 

I was thinking, last night, that it was on Infinity-to-Hawaii, but apparently I was mistaken .

 

Sorry to have "puzzled" you, your head must have been just spinning, and I'm sorry.

 

Kman

 

love it! :D

[corkpopr]

maybe i will just smoke and pay the 250.oo fine everytime i cruise!

[coffeebean]

Lush, as I mentioned to you on the RCCL board, we have learned to appreciate and acknowledge each line for what they offer us. I wish you well on RCCL. The concierge lounge is indeed a lovely plus and can certainly make up for the missing butler. Our concierge and waiter in the lounge poured a STRONG drink! :)

 

We had use of the consierge lounge a couple of years ago on the Mariner of the Seas. We made our own drinks. The lounge supplied all the alcohol and mixers.

[FinelyCruising]

maybe i will just smoke and pay the 250.oo fine everytime i cruise!

 

You could be put off at port if you are an intentional rebel. That would not be a risk I'd want to take....:o

[Drew B]

I don't want to make futher comment on some of the less than tolerant and uncivil remarks that have been made by other posters, but would ask the question.... If you contracted for a service and then discovered that the provider had changed the terms and conditions of that service without notice; wouldn't you expect to receive a refund of all monies paid?

 

That, to me, is the most egregious issue here, and I am LIVID on behalf of the international (is it only the British?) passengers who cannot cancel without losing their deposits.

 

I know it's easy to pass judgment on smokers. Everybody does it. However, please take a moment and think about this: What if, after you booked a cruise, the cruise line passed a new rule that 90% of the ship was going vegetarian, and the only place you could get meat was at the poolside grill? The buffet, the dining room, and the specialty restaurants would all be exclusively vegetarian. Would you still want to cruise on that ship? Would you be upset if you wished to cancel but were told that they were going to keep your deposit?

 

And for the record, eating meat causes life-threatening diseases in human beings, too, and eating meat DIRECTLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY ENDS THOUSANDS OF TIMES MORE LIVES THAN SMOKING DOES...

[Captain Jake]

 

And for the record, eating meat causes life-threatening diseases in human beings, too, and eating meat DIRECTLY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY ENDS THOUSANDS OF TIMES MORE LIVES THAN SMOKING DOES...

 

 

LOL.:D :D :D So you are telling me that thousands of people die eating meat for a single death caused by smoking?:D :D :D

[usha]

Only by eating smoked meat...:rolleyes:

[dkjretired]

.

 

I don't want to make futher comment on some of the less than tolerant and uncivil remarks that have been made by other posters, but would ask the question.... If you contracted for a service and then discovered that the provider had changed the terms and conditions of that service without notice; wouldn't you expect to receive a refund of all monies paid?

 

QUOTE]

 

No, because you have to abide by all terms of the contract, a contract works both ways. There is somewhere in that contract a clause which states something like they have the right to make changes. It would actually be you then who is in violation of the contract.

 

I think for good customer service though, the cruise line should show some common sense. Those who are within the full payment period might be able to transfer to a Royal Caribbean ship or some other compromise for good will. I don't know what to do with those in the UK, I feel for them and would like to know from someone if this is just policy of the cruise line or a law that forbids the return of deposits.

[usha]

Seriously, though, I do think Celebrity should give everyone, including those pax across the pond, an optional "out" for bookings that were made prior to the announcement of the smoking policy change.

[Drew B]

LOL. So you are telling me that thousands of people die eating meat for a single death caused by smoking?:D

 

 

Not at all. I am saying thousands of times as many animals die so that people can eat meat as people die from smoking. My comment was on lives lost - not necessarily human lives. In fact (and I am assuming that you are a meat eater), I would guess that on your last cruise, your meat-eating led directly to the death of MANY animals - perhaps hundreds if you are one of those cruisers who enjoys multiple shrimp cocktails at each dinner. On the flip side, I dare you to show how my smoking on my last cruise has caused even one death...:cool:

[blong2200]

Seriously, though, I do think Celebrity should give everyone, including those pax across the pond, an optional "out" for bookings that were made prior to the announcement of the smoking policy change.

 

I agree, but they have notify them first.

 

As far as contracts are concerned, it takes two parties to make a contract and two people to change the terms of a contact. That is the law of the land.

 

So lets say, I have a contract to buy your home, you and I have agreed to a price and a closing date, two days before closing, I decide I want to change the price and the closing date. That's fair? Huh?

[Drew B]

I would like to add the following (I tried to edit my last post, but it wouldn't allow me to):

 

I understand that my foray into the politics of meat-eating is off-topic, and I don't mean to offend anybody, but I did it with a point in mind. Meat-eating is a legal, societally-accepted activity permitted by every cruise line. For those reasons, despite my own feelings, I would NEVER judge somebody aboard a cruise or try to make them feel bad for eating meat. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't do that on a message board, either. Knowing how eating meat aboard a cruise makes the vacation enjoyable for many people, I would never try to campaign to have it abolished, despite my own feelings about the treatment of animals for meat. If by some wild stretch, X were to ban meat, I don't believe that I would gloat or make smug comments about how pax should use this policy change as a motivation for going vegetarian, or about how their health would probably improve as a result. I would sympathize with those who had lost something they cared about. If they were unable to cancel their cruises without penalty, I would be outraged on their behalf. I would do and feel all of these things in spite of my conviction that preserving animal life is the better, healthier, more moral course of action.

 

I have been chagrined by the attitude of some of the posters who show absolutely no care or sympathy for those who have been negatively impacted by this change. I make the analogy in a sincere effort to present them with a scenario in which they can, perhaps, understand the feelings of smokers on this issue.

 

I apologize if what I have said has been distasteful.

[rebeccalouise]

blah, blah, blah... you sound like a lawyer.

 

Good try. Smoking impacts others (humans). I don't even care if smoke causes cancer. Smoke is unsightly, stains clothes and impacts others- just like desiel exhaust. It doesn't really matter what the long range impacts are. No one wants to go on vacation and breath in methane, desiel or tabacco exhaust. Pure and simple- smoke stinks.

 

As for animals. All dead things are bad. Carcinogens exist in meats, plastics etc. If humans wish to consume meat- that doesn't really impact a cruise. So your argument is mute.

[rebeccalouise]

Set the smokers free. I don't want to sail with angry nicotine withdrawn passengers. Sorry you can't smoke on the balcony next to mine. I'll miss the fumes.

[flag fan]

I agree that a change in the smoking policy between when a cruise was booked and when the ship sails is a material change in the contract and the cruise line should provide some recompense to the smoker who booked with the expectation that they would be allowed to smoke on the ship on the places indicated at the time of booking. This is not really a smokers/nonsmokers issue but a question of honoring a contract.

 

However, because these contracts do provide for changes at any time, the compensation should be relatively modest. The cruise line can't really help it if a traveler's dates for travel are inflexible or there were deposits made that are not refundable on airlines or hotels if the traveler did not book through the cruise line when it offers both air and hotel options for passengers. An apology and a $100 or so payment to cover the cost of canceling an airline or just due to the inconvenience would be fair in my opinion.

 

I also agree that there is a lot of hostility on these threads that deal with smoking issues. Everyone (well, not everyone) is a little too self-righteous about their own rights and a little too inconsiderate about the interests of their fellow passengers. (Maybe I'm being a little harsh here, but I've been hearing these smokers vs. non-smokers arguments for the past 30 years and I don't see any end in sight and I don't see my little post as being likely to stop the argument.)

[Captain Jake]

God Bless America

[Coreopsis]

Actually, your post is very fair and compassionate. Thank you for that.

 

But . . . I do take issue with one matter. Here's my point - it is a two way street.

 

I have been chagrined by the attitude of some of the posters who show absolutely no care or sympathy for those who have been negatively impacted by this change.

 

So, isn't it also fair to say that there was no care or sympathy by some of the smokers for non-smokers who have been negatively impacted by the old smoking policy?

 

Both sides need to take a deep breath here (sorry, non pun intended.) But smokers need to understand that - speaking for myself - I am delighted with new policy. Don't forget - the old policy showed no care or sympathy to me and others like me. And I had no choice of other cruise lines in the midrange if I didn't want smoke in my cabin and on my balcony. But I did enjoy a lot of land vacations in non-smoking resorts. Now, I have a choice.

 

Additionally, more than 90% of Celebrity customers were non-smoking according to their research.

 

I lost my Mom to cigarette smoking; and she felt guilty to her dying day that she had exposed her kids to the same risk through second hand smoke. Only in those days, they hid the research pointing to health risks. Even worse, she was able to finally kick the habit - but the damage was done and she paid the ultimate price. And watching my brother lie ill and killing himself from smoking as you read this - well, maybe you can understand why I don't want to be around smoke. For my own health - and that of my children - and the anger I feel those death sticks have killed my Mom and closing in on my brother who keeps trying to quit, but says the addiction is too great.

 

So, I've got loads of personal experience with smokers and non-smokers.

 

Times have changed and we are focused on being healthy (including limiting intake of red meat, etc.)

 

Smokers still have a choice of other lines that for the time being, are more "smoker friendly" which is more than I can say for non-smokers before this policy was announced.

[blong2200]

I agree that a change in the smoking policy between when a cruise was booked and when the ship sails is a material change in the contract and the cruise line should provide some recompense to the smoker who booked with the expectation that they would be allowed to smoke on the ship on the places indicated at the time of booking. This is not really a smokers/nonsmokers issue but a question of honoring a contract.

 

However, because these contracts do provide for changes at any time, the compensation should be relatively modest. The cruise line can't really help it if a traveler's dates for travel are inflexible or there were deposits made that are not refundable on airlines or hotels if the traveler did not book through the cruise line when it offers both air and hotel options for passengers. An apology and a $100 or so payment to cover the cost of canceling an airline or just due to the inconvenience would be fair in my opinion.

 

I also agree that there is a lot of hostility on these threads that deal with smoking issues. Everyone (well, not everyone) is a little too self-righteous about their own rights and a little too inconsiderate about the interests of their fellow passengers. (Maybe I'm being a little harsh here, but I've been hearing these smokers vs. non-smokers arguments for the past 30 years and I don't see any end in sight and I don't see my little post as being likely to stop the argument.)

 

 

The clause in the contact you are referring to concerning 'changes at any time' really refer to not being able to dock at a scheduled port.

 

Tell the Attorney General of Miami, Fl. that ruled on the fuel supplement refund, ( the charge that Celebrity tried to charge pax without notification)that it doesn't matter and see what he says. Celebrity has an obligation to all passengers ( smoker and non smokers) to compensate them when they change a sufficient part of the contact.