? for Duck, Big House or others in Law Enforcement: Opinions on safety in San Juan

[sgrissom]

We leave Monday for a week on the Galaxy. It's a repo cruise and we start in Baltimore (our hometown) and end in San Juan. We've got an extra night scheduled in San Juan at the end.

DH is a 23 year veteran of the BCPD. I'm a prosecutor with an office in a Baltimore prison. We've both "seen it all" during our careers.
DH was talking to another officer who's a native of Puerto Rico. He was born there, but has lived in Baltimore since he was a small child. He said that he was in San Juan a couple of years ago visiting relatives. His relatives wouldn't let him go out by himself! They said that SJ is loaded with theives, robbers and con-men that lay in wait for the tourists. They said not to wander around SJ unless he was part of an organized tour! We had planned on doing lots of wandering...the forts, self-guided walking tours, Senor Frogs, Parrot Club, etc. But now, DH says he doesn't want to feel like he's "working" and he just wants to stay in the hotel and enjoy the beach.
I work with a number of cops. I asked everyone who's been to SJ what they think. Several of the men said it was fine and there was nothing to worry about. But one of the female officers said she was scared the entire time and didn't enjoy it.

So...if you've stopped in San Juan, I'd really appreciate any insight you can give me. And my apologies to the rest of you who AREN'T in law enforcement, but who have an opinion. I'm really most interested in the opinion of those whose careers make them real experts on the subject.
Thanks,
Sally

[hdawson]

I've been to SJ several times on cruises and never felt threatened. Having said that, I recently did some research for some family that was faced with a possible transfer to PR. I was shocked to find that the crime rate is something like 600 times the US average. So, crime is even more common than in Baltimore which is more that 400 time the US average.

[url]http://www.homefair.com/homefair/servlet/ActionServlet?pid=134&cid=homefair&fromCountry=USA&toCountry=USA&fromState=PR&toState=MD&previousPage=133&fromCityPreSelect=null&fromCity=PRF0001&toCity=2404000[/url]

[ocngypz]

I've never had a problem in SJ. I've walked up and down the Condado late at night.. and no one ever bothered me. Saw many police on bicycles patrolling the streets.

[MSBYRDY]

We've never had any problems in SJ. Of course, you take the normal precautions that you would visiting anywhere, but we were out late at night on our own, just the two of us and never had anything go wrong. We had a great time and I'm sure you will too.
Marilyn

[zebra36]

I was in San Juan on a cruise this past May and walked from the dock to and back from the El Moro(sp?) fort and did not notice anything that would cause any concern. Now would I go for a stroll late a night , perhaps not just as I would probably not do so in Baltimore . Just use common sense abroad just as you would at home.

Frank

[bighousecop]

I'm with your husband on this one when I'm not on the job i like to stay out of the b.s.when on a cruise it aint my place to have to protect me and mrs bighouse other than the normal whatching what i'm walking into..I know this aint what you wanted to hear but it's the way i feel......

[sgrissom]

BHC,
I appreciate your point of view. I'm not interested in putting myself in danger, either. But we haven't spent any significant time in SJ and I was hoping to get your (or Duck's) personal evaluation. Is it a legit fear in the areas I described in the original post?

And thank you everyone else for your point of view. I appreciate all the answers. But those of us "in the business" tend to be a bit, no make that alot, more worried about these sorts of things than you are. My friends with normal jobs look at me like I'm a complete paranoid when I won't go to certain neighborhoods to eat at a great restaurant, or when I want to wait til the guy walking down the street that I "don't like" has moved on before I get out of the car. But I've seen way too many cases where nice people were minding their own business in a place where everyone feels relatively safe, and then they get victimized. I'm sure many of you think I'm crazy, but it's a job hazard. That's why I asked for opinions from others in law enforcement...they know where I'm coming from.
Thanks again,
Sally

[davehau]

I was in LE for about 12 years and still find myself thinking with that mindset everyday. That being said, I visited San Juan last year as part of a cruise, and walked around the whole city (including many of the side streets and up to the fort) during the day with no problem, and no real notice of circumstances that would worry me even with my institutionalized paranoia that remains. I found SJ to be more "tourist friendly" than Cozumel, which had lights and buzzers flashing in my head every time I turned around while I was in that town.

I didn't spend any time in SJ during the dark hours, so couldn't make a judgement then.

I envy you that cruise.. I was just over on Celeb's site and Travelocity trying to figure a way to justify taking it on short notice... have fun!

Dave

[beachtravel]

We've been to SJ twice and did not have any problems. I work in law enforcement also and am always on guard, but I didnt feel unsafe or threatened in SJ. DH agrees. We can't wait to go back.

[hdawson]

Dave. Lights and buzzers on Cozumel? I'm curious as to why. I've been there I think 7 times counting last week and have never felt unsafe or threatened. Wondering what you found threatening. In fact last week we were there till 11PM and loved walking around San Miguel after dark. Had some great Mahi Mahi at a sidewalk cafe and serenaded by a gentleman playing guitar for tips.

[dkjretired]

I'm probably the original PO on these boards and am retired now as well as my wife being retired PO. We have a friend from our department who currently has a home in Puerto Rico and will be returning soon when he retires. His advice is to stay in the tourist areas and not linger outside them without a native who knows the area. Use common sense.

Don

[leerobbs]

I am a 23 year PO and have been to San Juan on two occasions. We were only there for day excursions. We walked around the Old San Juan area from the dock and then to the fort and shopping areas side streets etc. I never noticed any active problems, but I did see several police officers in the shopping area. I would not be out at night with family and unarmed in this area. I know they will assign extra officers to the tourist area to make people feel safe and I can appreciate that but most of the time it is a result of past problems more often than not.

[lookingforward]

I assist victims of crime so count me in the list of those who are a bit paranoid. I was recently in San Juan on the Millenium and although the city was very pretty I would not walk freely at night. Again, I am hyper-sensitive to crime issues because I see what happens to crime victims BUT..my observation is that the city is very old, has poor lighting and lots of areas where a perp could wait (doorways, etc). There are narrow streets, many of which are hard to navigate (uneven asphalt, cobblestones, etc) which would make it difficult to move quickly in the dark. Also, if you are walking around it is easy to get a bit lost.
My advice if you must visit San Juan at night is to go in a large group. There is safety in numbers.

[fireguy091]

Stay on the beaten path and you are fine. ie the downtown tourest area.

[DUCK33]

sgrissom

thank you for your faith in my judgement its flattering. unfortunately i have never been to pr so i can not speak from first hand experience. i too have heard of the high crime rates.

my feeling is that you and your husband know the score. dont psych yourselves out before you go. if something doesnt "feel" right avoid it. as much as your hubby doen not want to "work" while vacationing, i find that we cant turn those instincts on and off like a light switch. they are always there. they may hibernate for awhile but they are always there.

[sgrissom]

Many thanks to everyone for their thoughts on this matter. The limo arrives at 2:30pm, and we're psyched! I'll let you know how it goes in SJ when we return.
Sally

[zackiedawg]

I am not in law enforcement, but just wanted to add personal comments here:

I've been to San Juan 8 times, and stayed there for 2 nights on a cruise which departed from there.

When the ship is at the dock, there is a noticeable increase in police presence around the Old Town, and it certainly makes the district feel significantly safer. I did not have a bad feeling walking around Old San Juan day or night, alone or accompanied, while the ship is in port. I walk throughout much of the old town, from dock to El Morro to the Capital to the old fort jail...the pigeon and iguana park, the old churches, the cemetary along the north coast, etc. The people were always friendly, and never felt threatening in any way. Having lived for 4 years in New Orleans and occasionally walking through the worst sections of the city at night, I am very aware of the feeling of threat (though nothing happened to me, I knew the danger existed and was very palpable).

However I will add that Old San Juan feels just a teeny bit less safe when no ship is in port. The police presence is reduced a bit, and without the several thousand tourists filling the area, you are more aware of standing out and being noticed. I must admit to still not feeling threatened in any way, and still walking around at night alone...but I could understand someone erring on the side of caution and not doing so.

Do note that San Juan's high crime rate is predominantly in the main city...which 99% of the tourists from the ships will never see. The section where the ships dosk is called "Old San Juan" and is a protruding peninsula of land along the north part of the bay. The main city is to the east of this area, and is where most residents of the city live. Old San Juan is a historic district, with very few residents and mostly older buildings and shops. The crime rate is MUCH lower in that section of town than in the main city. Like any other very large metropolis, San Juan has its business district, its seedy poor areas and housing projects, its middle class area, and its tourist district. Most of the crime occurs in the new San Juan. The only seedy area near Old San Juan would be La Perla...a small colorful slum just east of the old city walls (you can see it along the beach from El Morro, past the cemetary).

Much also depends on the person...sex, size, and confidence are all factors that can reduce or increase the chance of being affected by crime. As a big and tall man, I may not be as susceptible to quick grab crimes or non-weapon threats, whereas a small person, a lone female, etc may be that much more of a target. I tend to walk with a clear confidence that I know where I am going and am very familiar with the area. however, I am virtually always looking around corners and glancing to the side and behind to stay aware of my environment. I have occasionally ducked into a store or restaurant in seedy areas if I thought there was a chance I was being followed or watched. Being aware of your surroundings while still walking confidently and responding socially to others can be a deterrent to petty crimes.

Also, keeping the advertising down can help. Choose casual and basic clothes that don't make you stand out...go without jewelry and other tempting items, and carry only as much cash or credit cards as you need for that stop...leave the rest of the money, cards, etc in the safe in your room. Bring necessary ID, but have a spare ID back at the room. If you have to give up your goods, you'll be alot less disappointed if you only lose $40, a single credit card, a Casio, and your driver's license - as opposed to $300 cash, all your credit cards, your Rolex, your gold chain, and all your ID!

[sgrissom]

Hey everyone,
Thanks for all the advice. It was extremely helpful.
I promised to report back on our impressions of San Juan.
We got off the Galaxy in SJ last Monday the 26th. We took a taxi to our hotel, The Marriott, in the Condodo area. After checking in and checking out the hotel, we took a public bus (.25c) into Old San Juan. It stopped 1/2 block from the front of our hotel and was very convenient. We spent the day exploring Old San Juan and walking all around the tourist areas. We took the bus back to our hotel and spent a couple of hours at the lovely pool. After showering and changing we walked the approximately 8 blocks to the restaurant Ajilli Mojilli where we had a wonderful dinner. We walked back after dinner. Both of these trips were after dark. We arrived back to our hotel around 10pm.
Here's the verdict: We felt completely safe in Old San Juan during the daylight hours. As lookingforward observed, there are many small darkish streets where the pavement is uneven and you see many fewer people. I might have felt uncomfortable there had I been alone, but honestly, we never saw anyone anywhere that made us nervous. We found the Puerto Rican people to be friendly and helpful and we never felt threatened. Granted, our experience was limited to the tourist areas that we visited and the fact that it was daylight, but we really didn't see anything or anyone that was worrisome.
In the Condodo area, we also had no problems, even after dark. I felt reasonably safe walking on the main streets with my husband during the evening hours. On the other hand, many of the blocks we walked were poorly lit, and I would not have felt comfortable walking the same route alone at the same time of day. Babette, I know you said that you were comfortable walking there alone, but my built-in paranoia would have made me too nervous to do it without my husband.
All in all, we were delighted with our stay in Puerto Rico and look forward to the opportunity to return and spend more time there.
Sally